Dot.hack//The World:R1 Mafia(Game thread)

[Randa]

@baldrick: my eury vote is a meta vote in a weird way. see usually i don't eury's posts because, well, giant ass wallposts are literal ebola. thats part of why i couldn't catch up in code geass, too many damn wall posts. but i can and am reading eury's posts which makes me suspicious because well opposite of the meta that i know.

@kirsche: i don't feel as convinced, that we should lynch you if your partner doesn't confirm you're a mason, anymore. your last few posts have been less aggressive and i feel actually helping to move the game forward without people claiming to you. however i will not claim to you unless there is some confirmation that you are a mason. now at this point i don't want a public claim, i'd rather they claim to via or someone else who nobody is scum-reading atm and then they decide whether we should claim to you. happy compromise?

also i'll post something meaningful when i get out of class.

[Zkirsche]

Why are you fine with claiming to other people when they are less clear than I am?

[Zkirsche]

Or as clear I guess.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Man I wish you could multiquote in ISOs

Initial reaction to Rapier's stuff was that the anger was more town, but let's see what's going on

Of course it is easy. It was a vote made on early D1, on page 3, as a reaction test. Yet my contradiction made Marth forget about it entirely (I thought it was best to vote anyway, not voting accomplishes nothing). I found it odd that he joked about his consideration then handwaved that it might be important, but it turned out to be a red herring. Marth's been acting carefree so I wouldn't put it past his personality.

Ok, right off the bat we have Rapier calling his first vote a reaction test.

So yeah, Marth's post seems like a flimsy way to contribute while not really contributing.

##Vote: Marth

forgot to vote

This is not a reaction test. This is a completely legitimate reason to vote someone. Adding to this that Rapier is continuing to contradict himself by saying "not voting accomplishes nothing," and this continues to be inconsistent.

@Rapier - What was your thought progression behind first posting you were not going to vote and then voting Marth? Did you reread the thread in-between writing that post? Why did you ignore Levity's pointing out your contradiction immediately after?

The player I am disliking the most, now that we actually got more content, is Kirsche. Whereas it would be good to have a town leader and he tried to establish himself as one, he's incapable of giving evidence that amounts to his towness, so it is a nulltell. But that's not the point. The problem is how he argued that he should become town leader though appeal to emotion ("Do you want to win or lose?"), personal attacks ("Terrador is being paranoid, he won't just accept my plan and let town win, therefore he's a problem) and, lastly, his Terrador vote is just as ridiculous. His 'arguments' all seem to me as if he is desperately trying to set himself as town leader. Totally not buying this shit.

##Vote: Kirsche

Aside from your desperate try to establish yourself as town leader, I don't see you scumhunting anywhere, also. Would like to know your opinions about the game so far.

I feel like this is a very shallow read, but idk, what do others think? It's quite clear kirsche is campaigning aggressively and that that's how things get done. (Over/Under # of responses to this question: 0.5)

Also, I find it strange that Weapons is still pressuring me for some minor thing that I did on page 3. Do you really have no better scumread than "hey that guy said he wouldn't vote but he did, therefore scummy"? Your case on me is weak and I'd expect better scumhunting of your part.

Eurykins is giving her random thoughts about disperse quotes and not really amounting to the discussion at hand. I think she's got enough info to mount a case against someone, given the number of pages. So Eury, why haven't you done so?

If it was scummy then, it's scummy now. Do you think your contradiction should not be interpreted as scummy, and if so, why not? You are completely avoiding the issue. My case is strong.

Rapier, where were you going with the last question for Eury? It does not seem like you really care how Eury answers.

It comes from the fact that he has still been bringing something minor that I did on page 3 as something relevant. On page 7. And he still says "hey can't we just lynch Rapier now" on page 10. Yeah, let's lynch someone because they suddenly decided it was best to vote than not vote, that's definitely a scumtell.

The worst part is that he's got reads on Poly, Bizz, Blitz and all, but assuming from his posts he's got a neutral in all of them, a townread on Marf and a scumread on me and SB, who he never ever made a mention about again. Feels like he's trying to seem like he's doing something and scumhunting while really not doing so, instead tunneling me all the way.

I believe those reasons are valid enough to expect more from Weapons.

About the first paragraph

From GP:

Rapier: "Also, I find it strange that Weapons is still pressuring me for some minor thing that I did on page 3. Do you really have no better scumread than "hey that guy said he wouldn't vote but he did, therefore scummy"?"

Reads like scum being frustrated at being caught for what they perceive to be the wrong reasons. Also, referencing less relevant content all the way from page 3 just to address a scumread on you, instead of relevant topics of contention such as Terrador's reaction to kirsche, the implications of Via's confirmed role, Eury's shorter posts... pretty scummy.

I like you already.

About the rest of that post, it's another shallow read. Also it's just straight up incorrect; you have to scumhunt to tunnel. Admittedly I am tunneling, but I think it's worth pursuing. If you are town, then show it and I will dedicate efforts elsewhere.

Do people think Rapier has been overdefensive? (Over/Under # of responses to this question: 1.5)

I find it amusing that my Marth vote on RVS is still somehow relevant enough to warrant a discussion on page 10, even more so to warrant me two votes late in the phase. But I will address them, if I really have to.

Like, we were in RVS, and I wanted to get reactions from Marth, so I voted him because he said something jokingly then admitted that might be a serious issue. If it is a serious issue, he shouldn't have treated it as a joke. By treating it as a joke he isn't contributing to an issue that he admitted to be of importance to the town.

Yes it was an easy vote. Hey, RVS' like this.

It is actually worse to bring RVS stuff to ED1 as if they were a big deal.

In line with the first quote of this segment, Rapier's explanation feels revisionist. Even at the bottom of page 3, we were clearly out of RVS, and even then, you cannot say your vote was RVS and proceed to give serious reasoning for your vote.

I can't really remember anything that happened in the last few pages, past kirsche vs Terrador, so other reads are for another day. FTR I'm reading both as town, as well as Levity and GP. And SB has been fine since whenever, so I'm dropping that.

[Zkirsche]

Weapons is town.

wrt the first question I actually thought that the reasoning was ok aside from how buzzwordy it was and how he didn't really explain why my terra suspicion is "ridiculous". Being wrong isn't scummy by itself.

Actually I do think Rapier has been overdefensive, especially when in his first post he was justifying the lack of a vote. MUch rather just stick to terra tunnelling for now though.

I reread Ciraxis' post and he realised he doesn't really come to any conclusions in it. He says that it's too early to accept me as town but doesn't say if I'm scummy or not and doesn't really address the mason claim. Also "not at all confident he's scum" isn't the same as "I think he's town".

Terra-Rapier-Ciraxis-SB scumnteam ez game ez life who needs to lead?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Weapons: "I mean I don't really want to play town leader anyway, so I'm going to avoid claiming unless this really takes off, in which case I might just sub out."

I legit thought this was a scumtell when I read it but no one seems to have reacted the same way so I'm guessing this is a natural reaction given SF's history of there being widely differing preferences of OC and NOC?

Clarification from anyone would be appreciated since this reads much like "it would be very difficult for scum!me to counter a town leader play"

I mean yeah, but personally I just don't like those kinds of games regardless of alignment.

[Percivalé]

hi physics killed me I'll read and comment after a nap.

but I sent some emails. I hope you enjoyed them (@baldrick & paper) <3

if paperblade doesn't talk more though I'm gonna assume he's playing to his scum meta \ o /

oh but I did skim Ciraxis's post and lol. feels halfhearted and I don't like how he's interpreting the Rapier cases, plus it seems like he's the one tunneling on Weapons and not paying much else attention to the game wrt his "I don't know why he thinks Marth is town" comment since like half the game thinks Marth is town and as far as I remember has stated it inthread. Then there's that "there's no reason to believe Kirsche is town" throwaway statement.

Ciraxis do you think Marth is scum? And do you think Kirsche is scum? Is there anything he's actually done besides try to be town leader that is scummy to you?

##Unvote

##Vote: General Ciraxis

I wouldn't mind this lynch today. I was debating voting Eury but I think I'm going to wait a little more on that one.

Also RE town leaders: I stated it before but I agree with Weapons, I personally don't like town leader games either regardless of alignment and I forgot to take the LOC aspect of this game in account lol. such is life I guess

[Randa]

Why are you fine with claiming to other people when they are less clear than I am?

not me claiming to them. your mason buddy claiming to them.

[Baldrick]

Baldrick, what are your thoughts on players other than kirsche?

idk ask my hydra.

Weapons Rapier case is better. Randa's explanation alright. My strongest townreads have second thoughts now. i don't know anything

##unvote

[Percivalé]

did u like my emails baldrick

[Paperblade]

Poly's early posts bugged me, mostly the way he approached the Blitz/Via thing

SB's posts kinda rub me the wrong way, there's a lot of posts where he's not really doing anything and his votes have no... no feeling, no backbone, like filler, up until he went on Rapier (which is a bit sheepy on Weapons anyway). If Rapier ends up town, I'd look into this slot more

Ciraxis is leaving his vote on an RVS vote without explaining, textbook scum play imo, baaaaaaaa

##Unvote, ##Vote: Ciraxis

Also, @whoever said GP's playing different from last game:

A. Explain how

B. Do you think that her not having a hydra partner might explain this?

[Zkirsche]

GP is a lot more.. assured(?) this game imo. Like before it felt like she had more free flowing thought, whereas this game it's more calculated. I wouldn't say it was due to the hydra because I townread her last game because she was playing like she did in reclass, where she wasn't in a hydra.

She's one of the few people who claimed though so I'm happier with her than other people.

[Zkirsche]

Baldrick if Weapons' Rapier case is better why aren't you sheeping it?

PB might be town because his reservations on SB mirror mine. I noticed it in the town leader discussion, but he felt very backseat amongst it all and just let it play out while putting in minor reservations about the discussion, which is what I expect scum to do. Sitting on the Terra vote as he's more likely to do something than SB at this time of night.

Eury can you prod Hugh of Ilia about this game via (the mad pun) e-mail. Can you tell them of the inthread claims, what they mean and tell him that a good way to get into the game would be to either skim for outrageous stuff or to ISO people like Rapier/Ciraxis/SB, explaining what ISOs are and where to find them.

Also prod Proto/Ciraxis to actually play.

[Zkirsche]

People should answer weapons' questions imo =)

[SB.]

I've pretty much spent the day since I got back home fixing my laptop and I've only just finished that so uh... sorry I can't be bothered to content tonight. @ Paper saying that my votes aren't very strong, that's pretty much right? I don't really have any strong scumreads this game so I've just been pushing minor things and trying to get better reads from it (although it hasn't really worked beyond nvm this person is null so =/). I'll read back through when I have time tomorrow and see if anything sticks out.

[Rapier]

Studying and then reading posts in Mafia, the perfect schedule. It is so good it hurts.

I think kirsche's claim is actually a good/trustworthy one from town's POV because it forces him to be held to a level of role accountability. He will need to reveal who his buddies are eventually, and scum!kirsche will either out people who can deny association (thus giving us a confirmed scum lynch) or out his scumbuddies, which offers potentially even more information if we lynch any of them.

This is particularly good food for thought, imo. Indeed, trying to set up yourself as town leader D1 as Mafia is pretty risky, unless Kirsche is that willing to gambit his own survivability to earn all the town's roles (which seems like a legit gambit, but I doubt he'd think of it). My issue is, if Kirsche is really a Mason, he should be capable of proving it by having an acquaintance of his message someone credible, preferably Bizz. Until then, I am not willing to risk my neck so willingly.

re: Rapier saying he won't anyone, then voting Marth

This is scummy because it's an attempt to remedy the initial scummy play (refusing to vote) with conciliatory, textbook townie play (actually voting).

You're taking refusal to vote = scummy play as an axiom when it is not exactly true. Refusing to vote during RVS is not indicative of scumminess, most recent proof of it is that our last anonymafia had a town player refusing to vote on RVS. So I fail to recognize how it amounts to scumminess.

Besides, I did speak about Eury's low content posts and lack of organized thought to turn her reads into a case for proper scumhunting. What I omitted was Via/Bizz/Tu Quote's roleclaim because I felt like it wasn't relevant for my post. I think her claim is legit, especially because we have it confirmed that she messaged a couple of players in a single phase. I rather like her play and activity, so I don't think she's scum. That is all.

Rapier is scummy because he implied that Weapons should've done more when the content that Rapier had issues with wasn't even there when Weapons posted. He even acknowledges that Weapons has talked about a decent number of other players (considering half the game is pretty lacking in content) and just says that it looks like he's trying to fake scumhunting without giving a reason? I feel like the content Weapons has posted so far has been solid so I don't really have an issue with him atm.

You're mistaking "hadn't been there by the time he voted" with "hadn't been thee by the time Weapons was actively playing the game". Indeed, when he voted me none of these issues were there, but he was pretty much active when these issues rose. It does not change the fact that he insisted on tunneling me until page 10 for reasons concerning my RVS phase vote, and that he also brought nothing against his other scumread to the table (you), hence why the 'fake scumhunting' part (which would be more approriately translated to 'efortless scumhunting', now that I think about it). My isssue with Weapons is with how he's so accomodated to keep his vote on me and tunnel it, and that voting someone for something they did on RVS is really silly. Don't see how his case on me nor his scumhunting is 'solid'.

Either I 8 something funny, or Randa's Eury vote is hurting my gut. Considering how meta-heavy his reads are, it seems weird he's not taking her obvious meta into account. It's not easy to be concise and meaningful when you're used to putting up 9 million word walls.

To Randa's defense, he has complained about her lack of content (compared to how her meta is), which seems legit since she hasn't been much active and her posts aren't nearly as large as they used to be.

I don't find it an indicative of scumminess because she has written long posts as scum, although I found Randa's vote valid for building reaction purposes only. Being busy or lazy seems like a better answer to this strangeness.

--

tl;dr version for dummies

Kirsche, could you tell your cohort to corroborate to your claim already, so we can end this headache?

Weapons, your reads on your other scumread that isn't me? I'm curious about them.

I think Randa's vote was a legit reaction test toward Eury.

I don't think Eury is scummy for not posting long walls of text, but it was worth getting questioned for.

Paperblade is poking other players but isn't contributing to content. Your reads so far? I hope I haven't missed them somehow.

I'm on the fence regarding Green Poet.

Who is this Poly you guys are talking about

[Terrador]

Morning all! Time for some actual ISO work; I'll be putting spoilers in this post for ease of access. If you can't open spoilers on your primary browsing method, please pipe up so I can repost.. Although, first, yes, time to keep beating this dead horse--but after sleeping on it, I've realized something:

[spoiler=kirsche as cult leader]kirsche, if scum, isn't mafia; he's cult leader (which is to say, one-man faction that recruits other players). Think about it--he has nobody to vouch for him now. A legit, sane mason in this setup, given they have a partner or partners already, would have at least one vouch for him to Via or GP or somebody they find town. It's a tiny leak (mason partner to only strongest townread) for a huge reward (corroborating that he at least has somebody behind him). I think it's pretty safe to assume that he has no partners right now.

HOWEVER, he has nobody with him right now, and says there will be masons dead later. But if he's town, how does mason recruitment make sense? I'm assuming he's not lying about being a mason leader--if he's lying and it's actually a neighborizer, well, that's its own whole ball of wax right there and I'd be even more suspicious. So, given that we can reasonably assume he inducts people into masonry, either A) he's lying, which is very suspect on top of his behavior, B) he can recruit scum to the townteam, which is insanely broken and well beyond the powerlevel of every town role I've seen, or C) he doesn't recruit scum--in which case he is a mayor AND a mason leader AND an implicit alignment investigator, which is also waaaaaay beyond the power level of what I've seen townies have. I'm legitimately not seeing an option where kirsche looks good here.

And I've been thinking about "I wouldn't do this as scum" a lot. Sure, self-meta is bad, but there is some validity to that; that's a very, very ballsy trade to make. Maybe too ballsy. But what if he's a cult leader? He even admits that he's aggressive as ITP. He puts himself out loud and proud early on, and has someone to vouch for him by D2. Maybe some investigation protection, too. Either way, he gets some amount of claims, enough that his decisions on whom to recruit are better (note: this holds even if recruitment nukes roles, since that takes PRs away from town and scum).

TL;DR kirsche being town is seeming less and less supported by the evidence at hand, and him being a cult leader (or similarly powerful ITP) seems much likelier than him being mafia. I'm comfortable with my vote, and though I might be okay with another lynch if I come to feel solid on it, I can't really see anything that changes my opinion on this being my number one lynch*

*Yes, even investigation results. There can be fake results, and if any role in the game would have investigation protection, it'd be a third party.

---

Some replies:

@kirsche: You say "No it isn't" to information in the wrong hands being preferable to not being organized. Are you seriously suggesting that you would rather have a mafia town leader than none at all?

@Lord Gaius: It varies from game to game, but the rule of thumb I've been able to hold to is that, unless stated otherwise, flavor isn't really indicative of anything unless two people are claiming contradictory flavor (ex. two people claiming Jeigan in an FE11 game, which didn't happen). Very rarely matters.

Nothing else jumps out as warranting an immediate response before ISO.

---

OKAY TIME TO READ ISOs.

[spoiler=Paperblade (start playing)]Definitely don't like how /noeffort he's been, and I'm not really familiar enough with his meta to speak to whether he's trying to seem like he's contributing or just doesn't wanna effort. I'd think he would know that he wouldn't pass as contributing properly like this, but WIFOM.

[spoiler=Bluedoom (Marth) (probably town, pls more content)]I don't quite like his SB vote, but I see where it's coming from. I'm reading that as fishing and prods, not really serious lynch intent, and I don't think Marth agrees? Like, I think the SB vote on me was honestly not too bad, I think, it's the sort of prod I'd make when I don't have a frontrunner D1. I don't think anything he did before his contest post bothers me? He's playing pretty flippantly, though outing himself as vanilla is a little odd? I mean, there's reason to do it and reason not to do it, and sometimes people just derp and do stuff. He really isn't bothering me, and honestly, I'm failing to see why his early play bugs people so much. He needs to do a bit more playing too, though, there are a decent few people who are actually playing right now.

[spoiler=Weapons (null)]Really not feeling anything off him. Some of his stuff feels sliiiiightly gross and noncommittal, then he drops a contest post that looks good? I dunno, man.

[spoiler=SB (probably town?)]He's making some pokes and prods, which I really don't mind--I'm a bit surprised he doesn't have a strong read now, but I could see this being town!SB. No problems here.

[spoiler=Blitz (somewhere south of null)]He's been active lurking like mad, including that early spat with Via. I have yet to see anything that's really trying to contribute?

[spoiler=kirsche (hard scumread, still voting)]I've been over this a TON, but brief summary: he's aggressive to the point of madness, using godawful logic and emotional play to pressure town into claiming, and is super-duper sketchy for not having a "yeah his mason outed to me" from somebody by now.[/spoiler

[spoiler=Baldrick (pretty scummy)]Claiming someone just isn't getting lynched today is noncommittal to the point of shady. Ditto for the empty unvote. He should have at least one scumread vague enough to work with, or at very least be trying to prod.

[spoiler=Viata (null)]++points for activity, really appreciate it. Just too weird to read, though--appears to be trying to contribute, and I like the last content post, but my feeling on her has been on and off for earlier posts.

[spoiler=Hugh of Ilia (start playing)]Start playing dude

[spoiler=General Ciraxis (oddly lurky, but null)]Last I remembered, Ciraxis was generally much more active than this. Leaving it on an RVS vote seems hella weird though, I guess he can be legit thinking Rapier is A) town and B) making good cases? I dunno, but doesn't look too suspect yet.[/spioler]

[spoiler=Poly (seems town, pls come back)]I like his ED1, but dang, I just can't handle reading with all his content being before the real fun starts hitting the table. Please come back to us!

[spoiler=Refa (looking shady)]He seems to not be doing much scumhunting, just asking questions and kinda putting tendrils out. Really not committing to anything, and what was his Marth vote about? I don't like it. It's possible he could just be really waffly town right now, but I'd think he's too experienced for that?

[spoiler=Rapier (the stuff on him so far seems pretty forced)]I dunno what everyone's problem with Rapier is. The flip-flop was ED1, people make weird plays there CONSTANTLY. I'm buying his townrage, but right now he doesn't have much content, and I think it's high time for him to do some legit hunting himself and forget about the hate for a moment.

CUT: Oh, hey, content! That looks good to me. No problems with the new post at a glance.

[spoiler=Lord Gaius (playing well, either smart newbtewn or VERY smart newbscum, leaning former)]I'm liking what you're posting now, it all feels very town. Have you played before? Either way, I'd love to see you dig your heels in and try reading a bit more; you're bringing good stuff to the table.

[spoiler=Randa (somewhat south of null)]Criticism of kirsche is on point, yet the switch to Eury because...? I mean, yeah, the change in meta is weird, but he seems to be voting Eury's meta over kirsche's play, which is a bit suspect.

[spoiler=Proto (start playing)]Dude, get in the game.

[spoiler=Green Poet (3good at mafooya, scares me)]Her content looks good, and nitpick: In P3 I realized I could play for a protown wincon very early on and never looked back. I guess that still sooooooort of counts as scum? At any rate, her content looks good, but I don't see that as a reason to townread her yet--I'd need a lot of content to feel confident one way or another.

[spoiler=Eurykins (not as bad as some are saying, not good either)]I'm used to seeing a lot better content out of her, which makes me hesitant. Why not commit to a case?

Long story short--reading Marth, Gaius, Rapier, and Poly as varying shades of town, with Refa and Randa being a couple of folks who stared standing out to me a bit after this.

[Terrador]

FUCK ME, missed a tag. Open the kirsche spoiler for everyone below him. I swear, miss one brace and things go to hell. Ease of access my chubby white arse :/

[Rapier]

Okay, I should start reading the whole thread before posting.

This post of Weapons has brought my attention, not exactly for the content he brought to the table, but for his passiveness toward the game. He explicitely asks people what they think of Ciraxis' post before he posts his thought about it. Later, he calls my Kirsche read as shallow, but complements with "idk, what do you guys think?".

Okay, this is something I definitely don't like. It could very well be that Weapons is normally that hesitant, but I also get vibes from him as if he's looking for approval from other players. This is not conclusive because town can be as cautious as much as scum, but I'd like to keep this on mind.

@Rapier - What was your thought progression behind first posting you were not going to vote and then voting Marth? Did you reread the thread in-between writing that post? Why did you ignore Levity's pointing out your contradiction immediately after?

-> reads the page before the lattest

-> thinks people are making a fuss and decides it is best to not vote

-> reads the lattest page after I post, because I'm derpy

-> decides Marf's content is worthy of being questioned

-> decides to vote and contradict myself because I'm an idiot

But uh, since you recognize my vote on Marth as legitimate, I'm inclined to believe you find no issues to it in content.

About your overdefensive point, like... Yeah, I'm being voted by three people and it seems my position has become relevant to the discussion at hand. So it isn't surprising that I defend myself more than I normally would, if I weren't part of the spotlight.

Okay screw Mafia I want to play EUIV. Will iso Weapons later and decide how I should proceed with his case. I'm losing my confidence in my cases and I don't think they were really that solid to begin with.

[Kriemhild]

Okay, I was gone last night and there were too many posts for a D1 >_>

Kirsche claimed Mayor Mason Leader. The lack of an accompanying Mason buddy confirming it is troubling, but I really can't see scum trying to fakeclaim this. I believe Kirsche is Town and would claim to him privately. However, I can understand why some players (Terrador, Eurykins, etc) would be skeptical of his claim. We are not expected to claim to him without evidence, but it would be advisable to not lynch him, at least not yet. If he claims that the existence of a mason group can be established before D3, we can wait until then and lynch him D3 if nothing turns up by then. But if he's telling the truth, the Mafia would know and would likely shoot him before then.

Kirsche isn't town-cleared yet, so it would be nice if he had more D1 content besides claimtome. But eh, Kirsche and D1 generally don't mix very well so I'm not surprised at this nor am I finding it scummy.

I don't like Ciraxis's post at all. "Rapier's thoughts wrt Weapons mirror my own" while Ciraxis himself never bothered to express his thoughts on Weapons (besides RVS)? And he left his vote on Weapons too >_>. As suspicious as this is, it sounds too silly for scum to try pushing for a Weapons lynch in this manner. I'm going to guess that he was in a big rush when writing his post, and didn't realize that he forgot to elaborate on his own read on Weapons. He said he'd have more content later, so I'm going to wait for that. It's been 16 hours since then though...

I'm not liking Blues' posts either. From what I can see, he only had one serious post besides fluff, Vanilla claim, and private Randa communication. It's his vote for SB that really bothers me though. If he didn't like how SB was voting for him earlier, why didn't he say so back then when SB was still voting for him? And if he didn't like SB's Rapier vote, well, SB did elaborate on the Rapier vote but Blues seems to have outright ignored it while continuing to post in the thread? Blues also never clarified whether he is actually claiming Vanilla or why he would do so, despite Terrador specifically calling him out for this.

Blues seems scummy to me because it seems like he wanted to find an excuse to vote for SB without actually caring about the specific issues that he brought up to justify the SB vote. This especially reminds me of his play on Code Geass Mafia (voting for Eury D2) where he turned out to be scum.

##Vote: Bluedoom

Rapier is weird, and does stupid stuff as either alignment. A popular target for D1 lynches. I agree that a lot of his content looks funny, but since this is Rapier we're talking about, I'm not finding it alignment-indicative.

SB's posts look really solid. His various comments are very reasonable and his votes seem really justified to me. I don't agree with his Rapier vote (because of Rapier being Rapier) but I can appreciate his reasoning. SB is my next best townread after Kirsche.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Man I just like it when I log onto SF and there's new posts in the game

I'm lazy; Rapier, what's a game where you where scum? Preferably one where you got lynched.

[ZoesMad]

Alrighty, answering Terrador's question, and I've read my ISOs and have some things to say about who some ideas that could be important.

@Terrador: This is my first time playing mafia. My only other mafia experience has been on Showdown which is a radically different game. (All in irc, role lists shown, etc.) I'm trying pretty hard fwiw ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Man, I don't see how Marth's one liner is telling at all. Is that something that he'd only say as scum? If so, why? It's pretty funny that I don't agree with anyone's cases so far. Please understand, dude, mafia sucks.

This is some of your only content about Marth. You make a decently large post after that regarding Poly, Blitz, SB, etc. but Marth is left completely out of it, and still gets the vote? Seems like you're running on your own agenda. Warrants explanation especially since you haven't posted much content since then.

Cut: Looked at Proto's above post. Marth, while I think people shouldn't be seeing scum out of your posts, why the vanilla claim?

I'm fine with leaving my vote on Weapons for now.

Why? Besides that its obviously idiotic to vote based off a joke alone, you should have a read on someone at least.

hmm, LOC is rather complicated..

RE: Rapier vote on Marth

This is scummy because it's an attempt to remedy the initial scummy play (refusing to vote) with conciliatory, textbook townie play (actually voting).

RE: Terra v Kirsche

Terrador needs to stop tunneling kirsche, and vice-versa. I think all of the possible arguments and counterarguments for the issue they are contending have been exhausted, and they both need to start scumhunting elsewhere.

Opening of your post makes it seem to me like a psychological way of giving you room for error in your reads. A safety net of sorts.

Why is it inherently scummy to not vote? Rapier waiting for something that gave him a harder read seems fine to me.

Regarding Kirsche v Terrador, we still haven't gotten any masons confirming to anyone yet. It still remains an issue, and its been a good amount of time since Kirsche claimed Mason Leader/Recruiter/hes being vague on purpose.

Not exactly digging your post tbh.

[Green Poet]

Opening of your post makes it seem to me like a psychological way of giving you room for error in your reads. A safety net of sorts.

This isn't a bad thing because no one's reads are 100% accurate.

And even so, why are you implying that I'm trying to give myself a safety net against a completely normal fault? It'd be great if my reads were all accurate right now, but I'm not afraid to be wrong.

Why is it inherently scummy to not vote? Rapier waiting for something that gave him a harder read seems fine to me.

It's inherently scummy not to vote because voting is town's primary way of influencing the lynch. It's how they kill scum and win. Not voting when there is a decent amount of content to analyze is usually antitown.

Not that my case on Rapier solely had to do with not voting, because he did vote. It's the backpedalling from his initial reasoning (possibly due to the reminder from a scumbuddy?) that looks scummy.

You're also misrepping him in saying that the extra time Rapier took made his read harder. His delayed vote was not the product of deliberation; he explained it as simply having forgotten to vote, which is a contradiction with his previously expressed unwillingness to vote at all.

If someone requires time to solidify a read, they would normally announce this by saying something along the lines of "I'll make a post later with my reads because I'm busy/still reading right now" rather than "I don't think any of the above content merits my attention or vote." Rapier initially said the latter.

Hopefully you're not townreading Rapier solely over this misunderstanding. I do not see any towniness coming from his first posts.

@Weapons - I've rolled scum only once, in Elie's ITTD Mafia. It was only my second time playing mafia so I did pretty badly lol. I scumslipped D1 and got lynched D2.

In other news - Proto's post gives me townie vibes. Terrador's reads post is good because all of his reads are consistent with all of his previous non-null reads. Via's voteswitch reminds me that I need to actually read Ciraxis soon.

The fact that Ciraxis has like more votes on him than he has posts means he's probably said something very scummy or he's an easy case, or both.

[Percivalé]

the posts are getting longer and it's intimidating me....... rip

[Green Poet]

Sorry via x___x

btw you may not have seen it in my massive spoiler tags post but I asked if you could send me some letters (like preferably 3+) as well. but if you're not townreading me and would rather not that's totally understandable.