AM/PM 2 Mafia - GAME OVER

[Prims]

ehhh actually if there was a different town voting role then it's probably more likely the persuader would be a scum counter. Iunno though.

[MancerNecro]

Also, before someone rebuts me: My point on Blitz ITP hunting is different from my point on lynching Levity who is a claimed and known ITP. I feel like Blitz is trying to find any potential ITPs instead of hunting for scum which is something that scum might want to do.

Trying to find out who the ITP is =/= Lynching the claimed ITP either so please do not misrep my points.

[MancerNecro]

Nobody claimed being the persuader in D1, not even anonymously via courier or announcement so I think it's safe to conclude that the persuader is scum.

Otherwise, the persuader would have to be a townie who was suspecting both Shinori and Prims (Makaze seems to be the only one and is a prime scum suspect of many players too) so imo, it's safe to assume that the persuader is scum.

[Sunwoo]

Even in the night phase, announcements!

"via here. woke up in the middle of a night w/ a major headache.

ughhh I knew eury was town. she sent me a message before she died that I couldn't post while I was sleeping, sorry eury. at least glad you didn't lynch prims but eury was an Actual Townread I was having.

I agree with Refa about Terra. don't like the last part in his last announcement-- pls learn how to non-hostile ITP. I am not playing from a mafia intent because I am not mafia. I benefit in NO WAY by giving dishonest opinions on things. the only way I'm harmful to town is once I leave it's one less to your numbers. suspicious of me for sake of it. distrusting me doesn't make you any more town.

via out. pls target me tonight, I still need two more actions. ;_; where the fuck is my ibuprofen"

[Sunwoo]

But wait! There's more!

"day 1 a courier told me they gained power as townies were mislynched

seems incompatible with eury's flipped role. message me again with thoughts on this?"

[Prims]

Via, do you think Terrador's ITP paranoia is scummy in light of how he was with kirsche in .hack 2? If it was somebody else I'd see where you're coming from but my expectation of Terrador is that he's just inherently distrustful of people in mafia.

[Sunwoo]

Too much loudspeakers 7.8/10

"...I mean Night 0. They messaged me Night 0. Sorry."

[MancerNecro]

Right, Boron forgot about that detail earlier and only gave me the info now. Boron please confirm this in-thread if possible, thanks.

I don't really mind claiming since my role seems passive.

I got numbers that the game started off as 12/5/1 which was something I already guessed to myself in my role PM. Safe to assume that there's 2 scum in the day time and 3 scum at night? Meh, was hoping for something better but it doesn't matter now. Knowing more is always good.

Also, @mysterious announcer, I only have two couriers and I sent one out to Refa and SB (read the thread lol).

[MancerNecro]

Also, my role seems to imply that every time a mislynch occurs, I might get more information (or another role as I was hoping). Not that I want town to be mislynched at all which is why I already resigned myself to being just a mini-pure-courier.

[Prims]

wait are you sure your couriers are over the course of the game instead of over the course of a phase? but yea mysterious announcer just now was me.

and damn that's a lot of anti-town. good to have my Secret Multiball Theory debunked though. maybe the vig should go for a night player just since hitting scum there is statistically more probable. i feel pretty good about elie being one of the nightscum. i think marf's N0 was lame, didn't really get his bbm read and i don't see what he had to gain from not putting any real pressure on me if he suspected me. it's not like he'd get to vote me. i should probably give bbm a better read. i'm just gonna let other people read blitz for me since i keep waffling on him at this point. lol poly

[Bluedoom]

Of the Day Players, Roofa is my biggest townread because he was very confident with his play, he was reckless and he wasn't restrained, which I'd see from scum!him instead. I dislike the swing vote but from like, an objective standpoint? Like, it takes guts to do that and scum wouldn't do that IMO.

I like Gaius' content because there's a lot more motivation from it and although I disagree with some reads I can see he line of logic. My only problem is that he doesn't have a lot of scumreads, actually, and he was mainly gunning for Eurykins (with mancer scumread coming from buddyspeccing) so I'd like to see more scumreads from him.

I didn't like Strawman's passive D1 actually. He was vocal abut being against the Prims lynch but he didn't do anything about presenting alternatives. Scumread here.

Prims beat me to it, but Rapier's scummy exactly for the reasons mentioned in his recent post. Rapier basically made a scum list post and didn't treat the usage of his vote very well. I think his Prims vote is bad.

I never understood the cases on Blitz and Eury and I don't think I ever would/will. Yeah Blitz's Shinori vote was bad but that's reason enough to lynch him? I thought his N0 content was townie, btw. Also if it was going to be a lynch between SB and Eury, I would've preferred SB because of the way he waffled on his Blitz read to vote Eury. Eury had consistent reads, IMO.

Speaking of SB, I reread him again and I dislike the way he changes his Blitz and Prims reads out of nowhere in favour of the Eury lynch. Yeah I know I was null reading him but that's because I had to wake up to a LD1 explosion and I had less time to message my thoughts to someone.

I was scumreading Prims for his Blitz suspicion N0 which was bad IMO and not really trying to do anything N0 but that N1post was p good IMO.

@Mancer: Why am I scum to you?

My nightreads are subject to change and we've just started so let's get the ball rolling!

[Bluedoom]

Priority would be this:

Rapier> SB=Strawman

[Bluedoom]

Also I don't think Mancer's role contradicts Eurykins in the sense that

Dupes are in this game.

But Mancer, why didn't you out the numbers N0?

[MancerNecro]

Oh Bluedoom, please read, lol.

I gain my abilities as town members are mislynched so I only got my numbers when Eury was mislynched.

Also, I mean that I can see Refa's point about your townslip not really being a townslip and gave some of the reasons that a scum!you might have made that post. Not comfortable with your slot either because you seem pretty unmemorable so far and I remember your playstyle tends to leave yourself extremely memorable (to me anyway) in mafia games.

@Prims: It's two messages per cycle and I already couriered Refa and SB this cycle (on D1) so I have to wait till D2 for more butterflies to send out.

[Prims]

SB says he didn't vote for me because he thought the best Homestuck song was me crumbing Persuader, and he figured Persuader was town due to numbers. He only later realized it made no sense for me to persuade Shinori to myself.

apparently he mixed up Eury with Elie and didn't think Blitz would be lynched for some reason. I have no idea what to think of him anymore.

He wants a more in-depth Blitz read from me but I don't really know what to tell him because I've been waffling on that in my mind all game. I think Blitz isn't as aggressive as his usual town self here and that he's not asking good questions. BUT I think he's inquisitive about people's thought processes in the way he is at town and not scum. I guess I'll re-read him tomorrow and come up with something more concrete.

finally SB also wants to be sent to game of mafia champions 3 let's get him boys :^)

[MancerNecro]

Also, I completely forgot that Elieson existed at all because he posted so little N0.

I have the same sentiments as SB about the AM/PM phase mechanic being slightly irritating but I guess that's something that we'll have to learn to work around. Still at "work" or camp or whatever you'd like to call it so I can't do any ISOing as of yet. Will do so when I'm home.

While I'm at it though.

Here's the playerlist and my opinions:

Day:

1) Lord Gaius - Null

2) Shinori - Town

3) Makaze - Scum

4) SB - Town

5) Refa - Town

6) Quote - ITP

7) Strawman - Null

8) Terrador - Hasn't had a chance to post at all yet

9) Rapier - Likely Scum

Explained my Makaze read earlier already. Rapier conclusion stems from POE and the fact that I'm not getting any scum vibes off of the other players.

Lynch: Makaze > Levity > Rapier > Any other scum reads

Night:

1) Elieson - Scum

2) BBM - Null

3) Blitz - Scum

4) Prims - Town

5) Bluedoom - Null - POE Scum

6) Junk - Likely Scum

7) Poly - Wake up please

Somebody should just shoot Poly. He's impossible to read and policy vigging early is better than late.

Don't like Elieson's lazy post. Not sure if he's made any other content posts or not because all I can recall of Elieson are his fluffing and reasons for not posting.

If one of me/Junk is scum then fmpov, it has to be Junk. Also, POE and because I feel that most players are town. Still don't like Junko's posts' tone at all. The last scum is either Bluedoom or Poly. I had a town read on Bluedoom earlier but Refa mentioning that his town slip isn't so much of a town slip made me change my mind. If Poly is not scum then Bluedoom is.

Lynch: Blitz > Elieson > Vig Poly > Bluedoom > Any other scum reads

[BBM]

I have to leave for an exam in an hour so I'm going to CONTENT more once I come back in the afternoon but for now, here are some day player opinions^TM. I probably would have voted Eury at deadline too and in a sense I'm not displeased with the lynch because I thought there was a decent chance she would flip scum. However, the reasons a lot of people in the day gave for voting her were pretty bad.

As Shinori (and Prims) pointed out, SB never really said why he found Eury to be scummy and kind of was just "I give up whatever". I don't know why SB didn't try pushing the Blitz wagon more rather than just defaulting to Eury for no reason.

Refa was somewhat better but even then I'm not really sure why he kept flopping his reads so much from "I think Prims is worse than Eury" to "I don't think Prims/SB are as bad as Eury". That being said since I'm currently townreading Prims I think that Refa is town as well cuz I feel like scum would push a lynch on Prims that was clearly available at the end over pushing a lynch on Eury, just because he's a better player.

I'm conflicted about Shinori cuz like... his points make sense but I really really dislike his attitude wrt EVERYONE VOTING THIS PERSON I THINK IS TOWN MUST BE SCUM. I feel like he's town but this is a bad attitude to have js. He made good points about SB not giving reasons for voting Eury but Refa actually did so I don't know how much of his "Refa is on the chopping block after SB" is just because Refa was voting Eury and how much is actually because of Refa's reasons for doing so.

my Blitz townread was dropping due to my townread SB making Good Points and then my townread on SB started dropping. I don't know what's going on anymore. Gaius made a good point about Blitz though; I don't understand why Blitz voted Shinori based on my ITPspec when it was all bunked when someone pointed out that a night player could have also made an announcement at night. Additionally my PoE was all wrong anyways cuz I assumed the ~publicly gay~ announcement to be Via when they said that it wasn't right at the beginning of D1. ALSO I don't have time to fact check right now but IIRC on N0 he didn't think the ITP was even anti-town? He said something like "their wincon makes sense based on so and so" so why would he even want to lynch the ITP?

I can't really remember much from Gaius other than that Blitz point tbh. Will look at in the afternoon.

I can't really remember any of Strawman's opinions because he didn't give reasons for them.

I think Rapier's Prims scumread sucked and made no sense but unfortunately Rapier's alignment isn't dependent on his logic so I don't know. I'm inclined to say he isn't playing to his scum meta though, he seems to be committing to his reads more.

Makaze hasn't rolled scum yet so I don't know how his play changes with alignment. But his play here is pretty similar to British IIRC; he found someone scummy early on and then just kept tunneling on them for a long time in both games. I'm not Conq so I'm not going to reread other games just to improve my read on Makaze though, sorry.

Via was my strongest townread and then they claimed ITP. basically mafia sucks. I don't think town should bother targeting them. This isn't like .hack where they vigged a bunch of people for us, so I don't really see why we should just waste our roles in a mostly vanilla (not counting communication) game to grant them an auto-win?

this is going to be a big wall isn't it

[BBM]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I want to scumread SB I really do but I keep coming back to the fact that scum would want to lynch Prims over Eury

I think the scum in the day are between Blitz/Makaze/Gaius//Rapier/Strawman

Mancer why didn't you out numbers on N0 if you had them at the beginning of the game?

I'm out for at least like 5 hours unless I finish my exam early like a boss (but probably I won't because it's 2.5 hours long and I only studied for 3 hours for it)

[BBM]

wow I thought I had like a small PoE list for the day and then I realized that that's like more than half the phase

[Sunwoo]

Screw those loudspeakers.

"via here.

ok reads rn in a nutshell: lynch elie. terra idk now. mancer town. prims mega town. bbm idk. sb idk. waffling on makaze still. forgot rapier was in the game, gonna read him. shinori town. those numbers though <___<

why do people keep going back to me claiming ITP like I claimed scum? I am not antitown, like prims said I'm forced to townside anyway + no mancer we are not lynching me that's stupid. I'm still +1 to town numbers.

RE terra paranoia: IDK now about him because everyone else is hopping on the "don't trust via!!1" bandwagon and it's irritating me because I have NO REASON to be untrustworthy but whatever. Prims you have a point about Terra in .hack, didn't think about that. Whatever I guess. I'm weird on Refa now too.

mafia sucks + my reads suck sorry. elie def scum tho. via out"

[Prims]

im actually gonna not read bbm because he looks like town bbm and if he isnt well know when hes alive in lylo

[MancerNecro]

I gain my abilities as town members are mislynched so I only got my numbers when Eury was mislynched.

Reading is not hard, BBM...

Also, Levity: What word do we have that your role is exactly as you claimed? I trust that you are indeed an ITP but I'm taking care to consider the fact that you could be lying about some parts of your role. Although, it is true that you're now practically forced to townside or face a lynch on the next day phase that occurs.

[MancerNecro]

ISOing Elieson:

I fell asleep at 10:30p last night and woke up this morning to a RolePM; I'll catch up in a bit yo

First post he makes is one where he promises content which he does in the following post:

OK so for what it's worth I'm gonna try condensing on post size by doing posting #s to posts rather than quoting, unless I have a distinct point that I want someone to reply to, rather than just saying "I think X is suspicious for Y in #123". Casing Refa and Mitsuki and Proto in whateveritwas mafia last game was really time consuming. That being said....

---

#7 -> Junko Townoshima: into #19 for weird early D1 pressure tactics

#9 -> Mancer: Unusual opener, semantics indicate possible alignment dissociation clue with Gaius

#12-> Eury: Why no attempt at content?

#Mod25-> ::Thoughts::

#28+#38-> Junko: lol howTOitp there goes my townread

#37-> Eury: Stop playing league it's clouding your thoughts! Really, most of this is repeated and/or fluff

#40-> Eury: Finally a post to read.

Reply to Marth is obvi/needlessly long but is a reply to marth not having a clue so nothing really here. second half though, all of these points are either wrong or bad...other than the first reply to Mancer.

You simultaneously aren't influenced by and look down upon Junko's play to this point?

Your @Mancer's#20 is also contradictory because while you call him out for saying one thing, you yourself identified it as saying just what you say he's pushing to the side. He did prompt conversation by bringing up an opinion (one that you can either agree with or disagree with) regarding the N0 Kill

@Marth's#23, at this stage of the game, any conversation that isn't RVS stands out simply by existance. Decent point but it doesn't fit into the context of the situation at hand since diverting conversation from one of the few possible topics that are out in the open.

#43-> Mancer: First off, Eury's a lady. Second, I pretty much agree with this ##wouldsheep

#46-> Blitz: Pretty fluffy introductory post ngl

fwiw I have not read past Blitz's first post, but will when I get home.

---

##FoS Eurykins

Already explained what I found scummy about this post way earlier on. Also, that is the only content post Elieson actually makes at all in the entire game.

The rest of his posts just promises content but never makes good on those promises:

I've spent the past 12-ish hours battling extreme nausea and what I think is food poisoning from improperly prepared seafood from last night's dinner. You'll get more from me tonight when my stomach doesn't feel like removing itself from my body

No longer cringing in pain

I feel that all those posts promising content are fluff posts to avoid providing content. This is especially so in his last post where all he does is mention that he is fine and just disappears, neither promising content or providing any at all.

[MancerNecro]

My first thoughts are elie and SB are probably bad and i should probably reread them. Will probably reread refa as well but meh gutread town still. As if it wasn't obvious already i'm the guy with no reads. There is currently an insane amount of wind right now which i'm finding extremely distracting. I'm also tired and i'll see if I can sleep but this wind >_>

How do you have no reads when you have been sitting on and tunneling on me throughout the whole of N0?

Before you can even attempt to refute me, here is what an ISO of you shows:

[spoiler=FOSing and Tunneling Mancer (Me)]

Actually I just remembered something from what they did in AM/PM 1. To get something out of N0 they fosed people.

## Fos Mancer

Mancer are you scum?

Well I suck at reaction tests :(

wanted to see what his reaction to see if I could get anymore out of it because something from mancer bothered me

fos mancer (this is serious)

I can understand why people wouldn't want to waste time by wondering if maf could kill on n0 (it wastes time IMO because we literally no nothing so we're not going to get anywhere but the bolded in red comes off as weird to me. It almost feels like paranoid scum trying to DIVERT (I honestly can't think of a better word for this but hope you get my idea?) towns attention some other way by saying "well it won't have an effect" on the game anyway.

Because scum want to keep town messing around as much as possible. Although I feel it could have led us nowhere paranoid scum might be scared that town could get something out of it since everyone would have to give their opinion on it.

@Bluedoom because we would agree with mancer and be like okay yeah 1 kill doesn't matter to much.

I actually think I found what was really really, bugging me about mancers reasoning though. When someone is killed (especially on n0) we lose their thoughts, possibly their role and (on n0) we get no associations. To me discarding as just "oh it doesn't affect the game to much" is scummy because these things benefit town and IMO a kill on n0 benfits scum in every possible way.

holy crap I totally forgot I had the username of coco once.

@mancer Paranoid scum might have been nervous because all night players would have to give their opinions on it and they might have thought town could glean something out of it thus wanting to handwave that discussion.

In response to your other points we both agree that we think that speccing if there was a n0 kill or not would be a waste of time but it's rather the reason GIVEN that bothers me. I think eury says it better by saying that you were trying to downplay things.

Regarding your points on eury they are actually very interesting as I disagree with the suspicion now as her posts at the time were extremely early in the game and I don't expect anyone to have concrete suspicion however if this keeps up later into the game then yeah it's something we should worry about.

@blitz I just am

it's not so much the fact that he didn't want us to spec it's the reason that is given what bothers me.

I also agree with BBM regarding mancer (I actually forgot to read the bottom of mancer's post so that post came off as null to me at first. I need to stop multitasking while playing mafia >_>)

Mancer also misrepping eury (saying she wasn't scumhunting when she was) reminds me of him in CYORE 2 when he was scum and did that a lot so yeah.

lmao mancer elie was sheeping you and your eury case. Also elie's first half of his eury case no one had mentioned before? I feel like this is just misrepping elie. Also mancer it's silly getting on eury for not being concrete when she had literally posted a few hours into the game. Also I feel like you're just ignoring this valid point. This is scummy because I feel like if this point is brought up against you it pretty much destroys your case since your case is essentially her not being concrete but no one is going to be concrete a few hours into the game. Scum are the one who want to look like they have cases and yeah.

Reads List

Scum:

Mancer (tldr reasons given are misrep plus his downplaying of the nk plus ignoring valid points)

Town:

Refa (I'm pretty sure he isn't the ITP otherwise he wouldn't have wasted a courier on me since everybody would have thought I was the ITP and the reason why I think he isn't mafia is because in his questions he was putting pressure on me and I feel like mafia would generally try to be more gentle with the questions)

Blitz (his tone really reminds me of code geass mafia)

Bluedoom (This guy townslipped when he asked if mafia could kill n0 and I felt it was really natural. This is further supported because I feel like mafia would just keep quite when I was answering the couriers questions but bluedoom asked what the hell was going on)

oh right I should probably explain that. I said "the person who contacted me was the first one who made that announcement". I thought refa's identity was obvious from his first announcement and I was essentially giving his away the courier part of his role by saying that which I didn't want to do because I was reading him as town. Saying this now since refa outed himself.

As for your other point just calling out what I see (what i'm getting from mancer).

TLDR: Junko joke-FOS-ed me then proceeded on with a (self-admitted) horrible reaction test on me. After that, he continues on with a serious FOS on me and basically tunneled on me throughout the entire phase. Even in his consolidation list, he somehow still has me as his only scum read.

Because of his N0 insistence that I was scum, I am quite surprised that he had suddenly dropped (or maybe forgetten?) his read on me in this post that I quoted earlier.

This actually solidifies my read on Junko and I really think that he is scum right now.

[Junk]

I was the guy who sent the courier to refa saying you might be town because you yelled at us for flaking lol. I thought this would be obvious when I said "and i'm the guy with no reads if it weren't obvious already".