Smash 4, Character Discussion Thread. #21 Metaknight

[Phantom037]

Dong and Ganon

[Anacybele]

Ike and Luigi

[Ice Sage]

Robin

Sheik

[Elieson]

Samus and Little Mac

[Tamarsamar]

Charizard

Robin

[Carter]

Peach

Palutena

[Zerosabers]

Ganon

Meta Knight

[Jedi]

3 Votes

Ike
Ganondorf

2 Votes

Peach

Charizard

Palutena

Fox

1 Vote

Megaman

Sheik

Samus

Little mac

Luigi

DK

Metaknight

[euklyd]

here let me help with that tie

Charizard

[Refa]

Fox

Ike

Edited September 8, 2015 by Refa

[Jedi]

-Facepalms-

SO we have a four way tie. Because you can't vote for the same character twice.

You 2 are something else

Edit: Oh I see a change.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

this thread is 300% funnier if you pretend that the votes are for a "hottest smash character" poll

that being said I can live with an Ike pick

[Jedi]

Ike is the main discussion now.

“My swordfighting skills were given to me by my father. If I stay true to them, I cannot lose.”

Origin: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

Year: 2005

Developer: Intelligent Systems

JP VA: Hagi Michihiko

ENG VA: Jason Adkins

Frame Data

RSATD: Ike's side B, Quickdraw is quite obviously based off his critical in his Ranger class in Path of Radiance, his rougher swordstyle in general could also refer to the first cutscene in Path of Radiance where Greil's instruction was rough, yet fitting for the mercenary life.

Ike is quite the changed character since the patches started coming in, and quite honestly my favorite character to play as currently in Smash 4, he hits like a truck, yet rewards you for being safe and knowing his faster moves, his throws have good setups, he has a pretty ok recovery for a swordsman (albeit very linear), he has arguably one of the best jabs in the game which can be mixed up as well into various moves like dtilt.

Ike has a really solid aerial game and in general just does what he does well. Although due to being kinda heavy and slower then the top tier threats he struggles a little against them, however with his moves getting less lag he can contend with them a bit better and with some solid reads can really put the hurt on them.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jedi

[euklyd]

weight + fall speed = combofood

linear af recovery = easy gimps

mmmmmmm

that being said, patient, properly spaced Ikes can be troublesome when I forget to be patient myself

[Carmine Sword]

Yeah Ike.

The patches have helped improve his viability considerably. He doesn't feel nearly as laggy now. Ike has got some great aerials, and you can combo into Nair and Fair (Aether too) out of down throw at low percents for a good chunk of damage. His jab is good, and is my preferred out-of-shield option. His tilts are fairly powerful and have decent range to them as well.

Ike's recovery, while pretty good in comparison to other heavy characters due to having a better horizontal recovery option than most of them, is fairly predictable since he either recovers horizontally or tries to Aether the ledge from below. I feel that against a character who's good offstage *cough* Sheik *cough*, Ike can get gimped pretty easily.

Even with that caveat, I still love playing as him.

Only the people who used Ike before the patch are true Ike mains.

[Anacybele]

Yay! We like Ike!

I agree, Ike's gotten GOOD after all the patches, thank you Sakurai. ^^ He's finally good in a non-FE game! He's broken his curse of being bad in non-FE games! Now if Codename Steam would just patch him like that... If it ever gets any patches. But anyway.

He DOES hit like a truck, especially if you can somehow get good with his f-smash. You don't really need to use it though, Ike has plenty of KO potential elsewhere. His aerials and tilts are great for that, and hell, now his dash attack can KO well! Oh, and dat f-air and b-air man. His B moves have a lot of utility as well. Quick Draw and Aether for recovery, Aether can be combo'd with some of Ike's grabs, Eruption can be used for edge-guarding, and Counter is, well, Counter. No need to explain that one. :P

Ike's grabs are good too, as I said above, he can get some combos out of them. Oh, I think he also still has a few spikes/meteor smashes that he had in Brawl: Aether, Eruption, d-air. D-tilt spiked in Brawl as well, but I haven't been able to do that with it in Smash Wii U/3DS. I think this one was removed, sadly...

I also love a lot of his custom moves, especially Close Combat. This is what Quick Draw should've always been, imo. Going right through the target just like the move it's based on actually does (one of Ike's critical animations in PoR as a Ranger) Aether Wave gives him a projectile, and finally the first FE projectile on a character not named Robin. It's also faster than regular Aether. But then there's Aether Drive which gives Ike some diagonal recovery. If you can master it. It's tricky... Ugh. Paralyzing Counter gives Ike a bit of time to use a slower move, and Furious Eruption gives Eruption more range, yet it's still pretty strong.

I love Ike no matter what, but to see him good in a non-FE game at last is just SWEEET. <3

Edited September 8, 2015 by Anacybele

[Tsunami922]

What Ike really needs is his Ragnell sound effects from Brawl.with all the buffs he's been getting, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten this one yet.

[Tamarsamar]

I am not a particularly good Ike player, but customs Ike is actually really fun to play. Tempest, Close Combat, Aether Wave, Smash Counter? All sorts of shenanigans ensue!

There's not much else I can add that hasn't been said already. Ike is really good now, but is still at his most devastating whenever he gets a good read. Keep on your toes and be sure to mix things up!

How I see the Ike matchup with my mains:

Yoshi: Ike is good, but he is no Yoshi. While Ike has gotten buffed, Yoshi has thankfully avoided ending up on the wrong end of the nerf bat so far. I guess his fans know better than to pull him out against Sakurai. When playing with customs on, Egg Lay is preferable to Lick in this matchup. Just don't get read, space him out with eggs and tail, maybe throw in a down-air for good measure. While he is somewhat easy to intercept when far enough off-stage, don't get reckless with your pursuit.

Charizard: Charizard matchups against other heavy characters are always fun and satisfying. Ike's sword is huge, but you can still outspace him. Your jab has a . . . somewhat hilarious interaction with his, so be sure to be ready to be the first to break the stalemate should it occur. Fly and Rock Smash are good options here, as they both have super armor on startup. Your grabs are amazing as usual, and though your own recovery is sub-par as well, your offstage game still vastly outpaces Ike's. Be very, very careful what you commit to.

Robin: The radiant hero of legend! This is a somewhat difficult matchup if your opponent is a good Ike, as he can KO you much faster than vice-versa. Try to keep him away with projectile combos; charge your Thunder tome whenever viable (Arcthunder, much like Arcfire, can lead Ike to combo city, and Thoron is an obviously great finisher). Nothing about this matchup should really make you deviate from the general defensive Robin keep-away strategy--you just have to be especially careful to keep away from Ike. While there's not much you can do about his up-special, good offstage timing can intercept his side-special recovery.

Mii Swordfighter: Gale Strike Gale Strike Gale Strike. Blade Counter is good too if you can get the read on him (but that inherently leaves Ike in a disadvantageous position anyway). It's really the same story as most matchups, really: projectiles and having faster but shorter-ranged normal attacks. As bad as his recovery is, yours is strictly worse, and he has better ways of getting you offstage than vice-versa. This is an uphill battle.

[Comet]

D-tilt spiked in Brawl as well, but I haven't been able to do that with it in Smash Wii U/3DS. I think this one was removed, sadly...

this has been gone since day 1, and for the better, as it's now amazing for combos.

Edited September 8, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[Anacybele]

But d-tilt spiking made it a good edge-guard move. I nailed a lot of people with it in my Brawl days. :P

Edited September 8, 2015 by Anacybele

[Ragnell]

My main! I quite enjoy Ike in Smash4. I feel like he's fairly underrated by the general FG crowd, and is slightly overrated by the tournament-going competitive community. I've seen him put as high as top 20 in recent pro tier lists, but I don't feel like he really has the results or the theory to deserve it. That is, outside of Ryo stomping smaller tourneys with Ike.

Ike's range is as threatening as ever, especially with his sword eating through most projectiles. He has reasonably good reward out of throws, and a combination of jab, dtilt, nair, fair, and bair give him fairly quick options to keep up with most of the Mid-to-High tiers. Pivot tilts/smashes and pivot grabs are a huge part of Ike's game, though I'm just personally starting to implement them. I do very much enjoy netting early KO's with upair, as people either mistime their airdodge or attmept to dair without taking into account Ike's massive horizontal swing. In the more laggy online environment, I find Quick Draw to be a nice movement option, so long as you time it correctly to land without any lag. However, I basically never see QD or Aether used outside of recovery in competitve play. Ike is solid at edgeguarding a good portion of the cast from the stage with Eruption, dtilt, and ledge-trump bairs, or offstage with dropdown fair or bair stage spikes.

Unfortunately, Ike's recovery is a bummer. While Quick Draw gets you some crazy horizontal distance, it's still annoyingly gimp-able. I don't get why the dev team felt Ike needed such a mediocre recovery on top of being total combo-food, having laggy attacks, and having no projectile. Ike is definitely solid now, but I feel like his recovery is one thing still holding him back from being used more widely. If he is knocked both down and sideways (which some downsmashes can do), or if an attempted Quick Draw to the ledge is intercepted outside the range where he can Aether the ledge, he is still as good as dead. He also can take massive damage from some projectiles while repeatedly trying to the Aether the ledge. Mixing up your recovery is key with Ike, but mindgames can only get you so far. My only other big gripe with Ike is that his dair is much worse in this game. Spikes are my jam, so I miss Ike's Brawl dair.

[Vajra]

Well said, Ragnell.

In addition, Ike's B-air and F-air (as of ver 1.0.4.) having auto-cancel properties help his spacing and baiting considerably. His smaller hurtbox, compared to many heavies, and his moveset consisting mainly of disjointed hitboxes also help. Jab to D-tilt is a reliable mix-up, especially at rage percent. D-tilt's meteor hitbox will be missed but its new combo potential and speed greatly compensates for it. You can combo with it from N-air and into F-air or B-air. One aspect of every character's metagame that has yet to fully develop is footstool combos; D-air, one of Ike's worst attacks, turns out to be useful for this occasion. My complaint about D-air is not that it is now much more difficult to land the meteor hitbox, but because it lost its lingering frames. D-smash is his worst move, in my opinion; as long as U-smash exists there is almost no reason to ever use it.

Ike, lacking the means to escape combos, is susceptible to juggling, which is a weakness that is greatly exploited by several perceived top tiers, like Sheik, ZSS, and Fox. Ike's buffed F-air from 1.0.8. complements U-throw nicely, and is especially effective versus fast-fallers; this is what prevents certain top tier match-ups from invalidating Ike. Overall, his match-up spread seems above average. There are a few Ikes in the competitive community that believe the Rosalina and Sonic match-ups may be even, or possibly in his favor.

Ike is one of, if not the most changed character since the 3DS version release. Went from being somewhat underwhelming to a force to be reckoned with. Meta Knight and Marth are probably next in that regard.

^-^

Edited September 9, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[Anacybele]

Unfortunately, Ike's recovery is a bummer. While Quick Draw gets you some crazy horizontal distance, it's still annoyingly gimp-able.

Close Combat, dude! It doesn't get gimped since it goes right through people. ;D AND it covers a longer distance than regular Quick Draw! Like I said, it's what Quick Draw should've always been, imo.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Anacybele

[~Silver]

I like the custom variant of Quick Draw that grants Super Armor. Although I'm sure you're left widely open if you don't snap the ledge.

Ike has received steady buffs with these last few patches, but his gimpable recovery isn't letting him go too high. (At least Diddy Kong has a Wall Cling/Jump) He has no trouble killing whatsoever, and he can spice things up a bit: Up-Tilt, Back-Air, a charged Eruption, Counter, Smash Attacks, (Maybe even Down-Smash, I believe) Forward Air, Up Air- the list goes on. (Maybe even Back Throw? Ana, Ragnell, help me out here?)

Ike is a relatively heavy character, with a fast fall that can help him make use of a few low-lag ariels: Ike is by no means a bad character. But there's the fact there's BETTER characters that result in a few bad matchups for him, such as the Zero-Skill-Spamus, Zelda-in-drag, even Mario's-wannabe can gimp Ike with ease. ZSS has her projectiles and off-stage capabilities, Shiek has Bouncing Fish, Fairs, and Nairs, and while Luigi doesn't have too much compared to these other two, Luigi's combos can trap the fast-falling Ike.

Give me a few, I'll post my matchups in a second. I never got around to it with Marth: but I think I'll pass on matchups involving my mains.

[Anacybele]

I don't know how good at killing any of Ike's throws are, I use them more for comboing or tossing someone away from the stage so I can try smacking them with f-air or d-air. But I imagine that they can KO at some percent since other characters' throws can kill at a certain percent as well.

Oh, and matchups involving my mains? Robin and Mii Swordfighter were already covered by Tamarsamar, so I'll just do Luigi and Toon Link.

Luigi: DON'T GET GRABBED. Ike will regret it and find Luigi will be the one not giving any sympathy instead of the other way around. Luigi has a lot of d-throw combos in particular, and since Ike suffers from heavy character syndrome, well... :P Luigi also has a crazy aerial game. You really want to space a lot here, since Ike can out-range Luigi in closer combat with his sword.

Toon Link: This might be a tougher match-up than Luigi, surprisingly. Because projectiles, projectiles, projectiles. And TL is speedy on top of that. But if you can draw in TL kind of close, but keep him out of his own melee range, Ike can do serious damage. TL is light, so Ike could KO him quickly if he plays his cards right. Also, shielding the projectiles is better than dodging them, I think. I don't know as much about TL as I do Luigi, so...

Edited September 9, 2015 by Anacybele