Good units you avoid using

[Caster]

I mean, I love Sophia, and Wendy, and I love using them.

But I would never call them good units, they are such a PAIN to train.

They are definitely the worst units in the game, bar none.

[Tragonight]

Just because they're difficult to train doesn't make them a bad unit. You can say the same about almost all Ests, but what's the point of an Est again? The training pays off. Not every Est is as difficult to train as Sophia is, but I wouldn't brand her a bad character because of how hard she is to train. Once she can hold her own, she becomes better than Raigh and Niime.

[Shadow Mir]

I mean, I love Sophia, and Wendy, and I love using them.

But I would never call them good units, they are such a PAIN to train.

They are definitely the worst units in the game, bar none.

I'd say they're also the worst units in the franchise.

Perceval has lower stats when recruited earlier.

... Fine. He might not suck, but Allen and Lance are way better than him, and being capable early-game units, no one should be complaining about training them. I had Clarine for Staves, so I didn't really need Niime, although her A-rank is a good thing for those that didn't train any healers until that point. Sophia basically becomes Lilina 2.0, with higher Skill. And with Flux's Might, she can actually OHKO more than Lilina with a Fire tome, it's just that Fire is cheaper. Dark Magic is great for the Magic Trinity too.

>implying the magic trinity matters

Hahahahaha

Also, I wouldn't want to bust my ass just to get a poor man's Lilina.

Edit, because I can't doublepost:

Just because they're difficult to train doesn't make them a bad unit. You can say the same about almost all Ests, but what's the point of an Est again? The training pays off. Not every Est is as difficult to train as Sophia is, but I wouldn't brand her a bad character because of how hard she is to train. Once she can hold her own, she becomes better than Raigh and Niime.

Ests require you to go through the bad before you can get the good. And in most cases, by the time they're actually good, most everyone else you're using at that point is, which means they fail to stand out.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Jedi]

I'd say they're also the worst units in the franchise.

FE12 says hi.

[Tragonight]

>implying the magic trinity matters

Hahahahaha

It helps for getting better accuracy at the very least.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't try to disagree with me in the rudest way possible.

[Jedi]

It helps for getting better accuracy at the very least.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't try to disagree with me in the rudest way possible.

The magical trinity is a bit of a farce deep down, other then like Jugdral, but yeah I agree. His response was a bit rude.

[Shadow Mir]

It helps for getting better accuracy at the very least.

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't try to disagree with me in the rudest way possible.

Other than in Jugdral, and I'd personally say even that's a bit of a stretch, I wouldn't say it really was meaningful.

[Jedi]

Other than in Jugdral, and I'd personally say even that's a bit of a stretch, I wouldn't say it really was meaningful.

So Julia being really good against Julius is insubstantial...?

[Phantom037]

So Julia being really good against Julius is insubstantial...?

That's less magic triangle and more the game shouting "USE JULIA"

[Jedi]

That's less magic triangle and more the game shouting "USE JULIA"

Even so! Its a point for the triangle! As minor as it is

[Shadow Mir]

So Julia being really good against Julius is insubstantial...?

Given that Julius is only one enemy in one game... Other than that, Phantom said what I likely would've. But what I really was getting at was the fact that the types of magic that bested wind on paper couldn't even claim that in actual practice.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Gradivus.]

@Tragonight Recruiting Percival in C13 is a terrible idea on HM, unless you insist on avoiding HM bonuses. There's no big demand for him in C14 or C14x, much less at the cost of making his performance a lot less remarkable (even in NM, where all it negates is a silver sword, it's not really worth going for). I wasn't complaining about the fact that Alance have to be trained (only one of them will be very good when Percy joins, fyi), I was saying that when a unit is on par with good growth units at their full potential, without needing training, and even beats them in some departments, they're pretty amazing. You can't correctly call Percival outclassed or anything to that effect.

Sophia is a much worse version of Lilina since she roughly has the same stats and comes 7 chapters later, with worse growths in the stats she wants the most. Lilina's Spd is just borderline okay with significant training. OHKOes are irrelevant since neither can net those reliably without using up divine weapons. Lilina is way more accurate due to better stats at reasonable levels and higher innate accuracy of anima, and she also has a viable siege tome. Sophia doesn't function like an Est since there's virtually no payoff for putting that much effort into her, since Niime does everything Sophia can and a lot more.

EDIT: I'm playing FE6 HM atm and this is how my Lance turned out (level 16?/5, after C15): http://www.directupload.net/filde/d/4092/vub76h9a_png.htm ; the str screwage is a bit extreme, but Percival can get some points for being immune against growth screwage.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Jedi]

Given that Julius is only one enemy in one game... Other than that, Phantom said what I likely would've. But what I really was getting at was the fact that the types of magic that bested wind on paper couldn't even claim that in actual practice.

It's overall a flawed system, I was just more annoyed with how you replied honestly.

[Refa]

So Julia being really good against Julius is insubstantial...?

Light magic isn't effective against dark magic in FE4/FE5.

[Baldrick]

Does Light even beat Dark in Jugdral? I think it's more Naga's bonuses beating Lopt's, and negating damage reduction.

The magic triangle is useful against Reptor and Marik (Blume too, if you use Horsety) and makes Alvis even more of a bitch to kill.

Ests are good units I don't use when I don't feel like going through the bad period.

REFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Edited August 26, 2015 by Baldrick

[Jokoister]

I tend to bench Navarre and use Raddy instead even though Raddy is like a mini Est.

I avoid using Jeigan/Oifey type units because I don't like them eating early game EXP and hold out long enough to get good enough units to replace them.

I never used Pent in FE7. I'll usually have a passable magic user like Canas, Lucius, or even Erk by the time he joins and never felt the need to bring him out.

I can't really say I've avoided using anyone in FE8/FE13 since I used to grind way too much when I started playing FE games.

[RidellCrimea]

Seth, Marcus (FE7), Wallace, Pent, Saleh, Titania and Shinon in FE9, Sothe in FE10 (in early stages of the game) and Stefan.

Edited August 26, 2015 by RidellCrimea

[Zerosabers]

FE7: I don't use pent, I usually train Lucius and get a sort of support triangle with Raven/Pricilla.

FE8: My only full playthrough where I beat the game I didn't use seth and trained up Ford. I regret this.

FE11: I kill everyone I'm not using, including gaiden chapter units. So one or two good units end up getting killed because of this.

FE13: Donnel I never used Miriel or her son.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Wow...so much anti-Jeigan/Prepromote still in the fandom. Its 2015, so its a bit shocking to still see it in such large quantities. Old habits die hard, eh?

As for decent guys i dont use: Gatrie in either Tellius game. I know in RD, hes actually hella good, but i just cant find room on my team for a thwomp in that game. (or FE9 for that matter)

Ummm....I tend not to use Harken because by the time hes joining my team, hes...theres just no room for him. Im also not terribly arsed with the cavs in FE7 anymore because Sain hits like a truck but folds like a smart car too much on my runs. Lowen doesnt get a lot of str, and Kent is just really bloody average and not worth the exp dump overall. So yeah i tend to Marcus Emblem and Isadora it up later. Oh yeah, Geitz. I dont use him. Sometimes, if im using Dart, ill get him but take his gear. If im not using Dart....sorry Geitz but you just got creamed. Exit, pursued by a pegasus.

FE13? I dont really use Say'ri or Tiki despite recruiting them. I didnt use Anna for a long long time until i found her niche.

Most of the time, if a good unit isnt getting used, they just dont fit on my team for whatever reason. Either not enough deploy spots or joins too late or whatever.

[Shadow Mir]

It's overall a flawed system, I was just more annoyed with how you replied honestly.

Fair enough. Though, and I forgot to mention this, light wasn't even effective against dark in Jugdral. But...

FE12 says hi.

...I'm not sure why you're saying this. I can't think of anyone who could possibly be worse than an armor who's in a game where armors are subpar units, joins at level 1, and joins right before an axefest, to top it all off (and that's not even getting into the fact that FE6 has big maps for a GBA game, AND the fact that when she joins, the maps are getting bigger). (Well, other than the fact that the only other possible candidate comes from the same game as said armor.)

Edited August 26, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[secondworld]

I don't actively avoid using any good characters.

Whenever I don't use a really good unit it's because, well, that's just how things turned out. It's generally a case by case basis.

[Thor Odinson]

...I'm not sure why you're saying this. I can't think of anyone who could possibly be worse than an armor who's in a game where armors are subpar units, joins at level 1, and joins right before an axefest, to top it all off (and that's not even getting into the fact that FE6 has big maps for a GBA game, AND the fact that when she joins, the maps are getting bigger).

Maybe you should play FE12 Lunatic and understand why literally the entire cast after (iirc) Ellrean's jointime is called Free Silvers.

Wendy IS more trainable than them. And the later it gets, the worse it gets. Wendy's definitely a terrible unit, but FE12 Lunatic, much as I like the difficulty balance in itself, is pretty awful with its character balance. It would've benefitted from something like FE13's jointime-scaling hardmode bonuses just to make later units even feasible (without like, dumping literally the entirety of Lunatic Statboosters AND Starsphere AND the best forge in the game and they'll prolly still be subpar as fuck), and it would not have broken the difficulty, but alas, they didn't.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Too much babying to be worth it. Especially when you have Innes and his amazing bases.

Neimi will have better (average) stats when she's promoted.

[Jedi]

...I'm not sure why you're saying this. I can't think of anyone who could possibly be worse than an armor who's in a game where armors are subpar units, joins at level 1, and joins right before an axefest, to top it all off (and that's not even getting into the fact that FE6 has big maps for a GBA game, AND the fact that when she joins, the maps are getting bigger). (Well, other than the fact that the only other possible candidate comes from the same game as said armor.)

Half of FE12's cast is unusable on Lunatic maybe even 2/3rds, Wendy with paitence can be somewhat usable in FE6 HM.

There is no spoonfeeding in FE12 Lunatic.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Jedi

[Gradivus.]

Every free silver can shave turns by dying