The Next Remake

[The Geek]

I haven't played, it, but... Is he really that bad?

From what I've heard, the main problem is that a lot of what Kris does in FE12 takes away from things that Marth and Jeigan did. As a result, FE12!Marth seems much more meek and childish than FE3!Marth. This is especially egregious after Marth in Shadow Dragon seemed so well adjusted as a military leader.

[Bullwine85]

From what I've heard, the main problem is that a lot of what Kris does in FE12 takes away from things that Marth and Jeigan did. As a result, FE12!Marth seems much more meek and childish than FE3!Marth. This is especially egregious after Marth in Shadow Dragon seemed so well adjusted as a military leader.

FE12 Spoilers marked to be safe

Can confirm. He butts into every scene (making the respective scene from FE3 lose most of - if not all - of whatever impact that scene would have), Jagen and Marth endlessly praise Kris and act like he is the real hero of the story, and that Marth can't do anything without Kris. Every girl seems to adore Kris, and quite a few guys can't seem to resist F!Kris either. Marth even says he feels "a special connection" with Kris like Kris is his bestest friend ever.

I know I'm just scratching the surface of this, but I'll say it again. Kris makes fanfic self-insert OCs look believable.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Bullwine85

[Jotari]

I actually do not think any of that is a bad idea because it is expanding on the originals vision rather that changing things that don't need to be changed. For example let's look at the boss changes in Majora 3ds, the original boss patterns were actual symbolic of conquering there respective grief cycle, and the remake actually ruins the symbolism of both Gyorg and Twinmold by changing there patterns, and to add insult to injury they somehow made Gyorg even less fun then he was originally. Then they add massive weird eyes that pop out the bosses for no reason (it was not that hard to find there weak spot) and then they make it so you have to beat Twinmold with a contextual button press that they don't prompt you to do ... I had to look up how to beat Twinmold I spent forever trying to figure out why he would not die, it is not good game design... Beyond that, stuff like changing the banks location breaks my immersion because why would a bank be located behind a clock tower that makes no sense, I know it is for convenience but it just feels to gamy, it should feel like I'm existing in a world rather than a world existing for me.

Tying this back to fire emblem I wouldn't mind expanding on the intentions of the original, but I do not want them to change the original vision of the game (i.e. having Mark be able to marry absolutely everyone, or adding reclassing, or making it have a world map or something like that).

Giving the bosses giant eyes was to connect them more to Majora's I assume, since it Majora's eye. Odolwa they changed so the Deku Mask was actually required, something the original on retrospect was really missing, probably the best changed of the bosses. Ghot I don't recall them changing much of anything. Gyorg they added another stage to the fight and honestly I found it pretty fun and challenging to fight a boss completely underwater. The real problem was them changing the way Zora Link Swims for absolutely no reason. And then Twinmold, the most changed boss, well honestly after you get past the initial cool aesthetic, the Twinmold fight in the original is pretty crappy. It's them just wandering around and Link trying to hit their tails with the largest threat being the dwindling magic meter. The 3DS made them more aggressive, gave them minions and made the Giant Mask more interesting. It does still fall flat though in its balance since the Giant's Mask lack of reach and the speed in which the second Twinmold runs away is just pure frustrating. But I can see why they changed it in the first place.

[Alastor15243]

I despised the boss changes in Majora's Mask 3ds too, mostly because it made the Fierce Deity Mask, that insanely fun end-game bonus, almost entirely useless. I was hoping they'd make the mask usable ANYWHERE in a dungeon, not just in boss rooms, and instead they made that mask even more situational and useless to the point where there are only two bosses it's fun to use against and only three you can even complete with it.

[Shadow Mir]

I despised the boss changes in Majora's Mask 3ds too, mostly because it made the Fierce Deity Mask, that insanely fun end-game bonus, almost entirely useless. I was hoping they'd make the mask usable ANYWHERE in a dungeon, not just in boss rooms, and instead they made that mask even more situational and useless to the point where there are only two bosses it's fun to use against and only three you can even complete with it.

Doesn't sound that different from vanilla MM to me... (Barring the final boss, the only bosses you could feasibly use it on were Odolwa and Goht anyhow, given that you can't even damage Gyorg without getting underwater IIRC and Twinmold wouldn't exactly be an easy target without the Giant's Mask)

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I don't care for a remake as long it won't be as poorly designed as FE11 was.

A remake of the Judgral games would be really nice since it lacks on a good FE5 translation.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Alastor15243]

Doesn't sound that different from vanilla MM to me... (Barring the final boss, the only bosses you could feasibly use it on were Odolwa and Goht anyhow, given that you can't even damage Gyorg without getting underwater IIRC and Twinmold wouldn't exactly be an easy target without the Giant's Mask)

No, Gyorg could be killed in the original because the pillar never went away, you could energy blast him, and it was still POSSIBLE to beat Twinmold.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Doesn't sound that different from vanilla MM to me... (Barring the final boss, the only bosses you could feasibly use it on were Odolwa and Goht anyhow, given that you can't even damage Gyorg without getting underwater IIRC and Twinmold wouldn't exactly be an easy target without the Giant's Mask)

I remember I defeated Gyorg with the Fierce Deity Mask once, so this is not true, at least for Gyorg.

[Shadow Mir]

No, Gyorg could be killed in the original because the pillar never went away, you could energy blast him, and it was still POSSIBLE to beat Twinmold.

Being possible is one thing. The problem is, defeating Twinmold with the FD Mask would likely wind up being tedious.

I remember I defeated Gyorg with the Fierce Deity Mask once, so this is not true, at least for Gyorg.

Huh. I always thought you couldn't damage Gyorg without going underwater (I knew it was possible to STUN it without going underwater, but never was able to DAMAGE it with arrows).

Edited February 1, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[NoNameAtAll]

I remember I defeated Gyorg with the Fierce Deity Mask once, so this is not true, at least for Gyorg.

That fact still holds true for part of the fight in MM3D. You gotta lock onto him and go nuts with the sword beams.

The problem is that he can't be /killed/ in MM3D with just the FD mask.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

That fact still holds true for part of the fight in MM3D. You gotta lock onto him and go nuts with the sword beams.

The problem is that he can't be /killed/ in MM3D with just the FD mask.

I see. This thread is almost convincing me to not buy MM3D...

[Shadow Mir]

From what I've heard, the main problem is that a lot of what Kris does in FE12 takes away from things that Marth and Jeigan did. As a result, FE12!Marth seems much more meek and childish than FE3!Marth. This is especially egregious after Marth in Shadow Dragon seemed so well adjusted as a military leader.

FE12 Spoilers marked to be safe

Can confirm. He butts into every scene (making the respective scene from FE3 lose most of - if not all - of whatever impact that scene would have), Jagen and Marth endlessly praise Kris and act like he is the real hero of the story, and that Marth can't do anything without Kris. Every girl seems to adore Kris, and quite a few guys can't seem to resist F!Kris either. Marth even says he feels "a special connection" with Kris like Kris is his bestest friend ever.

I know I'm just scratching the surface of this, but I'll say it again. Kris makes fanfic self-insert OCs look believable.

I see. I could see that as off-putting to those who played FE3.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Alastor15243]

I see. This thread is almost convincing me to not buy MM3D...

If you still have access to MM64 it might not be worth your money. If you've never played it before though, or if you played it but for whatever reason lost it (or, say, your parents guilt-tripped you into giving up the entire console the moment you got a gamecube because they were being parents and assumed the N64 was therefore totally worthless), it's still totally worth buying, it's a pretty damn awesome remake aside from a few minor annoyances regarding the bosses.

[Etrurian emperor]

I would say Genealogy is the most deserving of a remake. This isn't because its one of my favorites but because I think that it has a lot of room for improvements. They could introduce actual supports, make pairing up characters less of a hassle and make the game just a little bit more balanced while they are at it.

Not many people have played Genealogy either and with Smash pretending the game doesn't exist I think its fair to say Genealogy has never been given its due. I'd be happy if that got fixed.

[Jedi]

I see. I could see that as off-putting to those who played FE3.

It's still a really good game, and has a very fair yet very brutal Lunatic mode, serves as probably the hardest FE mode, while not being BS.

[Jotari]

I would say Genealogy is the most deserving of a remake. This isn't because its one of my favorites but because I think that it has a lot of room for improvements. They could introduce actual supports, make pairing up characters less of a hassle and make the game just a little bit more balanced while they are at it.

Not many people have played Genealogy either and with Smash pretending the game doesn't exist I think its fair to say Genealogy has never been given its due. I'd be happy if that got fixed.

Which of those points don't also apply to Gaiden?

[Bullwine85]

It's still a really good game, and has a very fair yet very brutal Lunatic mode, serves as probably the hardest FE mode, while not being BS.

Of course. No Fire Emblem game is really like Berwick Saga

But in all seriousness, I still love New Mystery for its gameplay and its updated UI. And I actually love Kris from a gameplay standpoint, it's just that Kris getting involved in every scene gets annoying quick.

[Moblin Major General]

It's still a really good game, and has a very fair yet very brutal Lunatic mode, serves as probably the hardest FE mode, while not being BS.

*leers at HHM, SD H5, and FE13 L+*

I want FE4 and FE5 because those games are ball-crushing and/or unfair in their vanilla state. Also, a translation of New Mystery that brings back SD Marth, and an e-shop release of Tellius.

[Jedi]

*leers at HHM, SD H5, and FE13 L+*

I want FE4 and FE5 because those games are ball-crushing and/or unfair in their vanilla state. Also, a translation of New Mystery that brings back SD Marth, and an e-shop release of Tellius.

I don't think HHM, FE4 or FE5 are that difficult at all really. Outside of maybe the first run.

[maybe]

Which of those points don't also apply to Gaiden?

not being acknowledged in smash (yeah I know the medleys have it but that totals up to like 0.6 songs or something while gaiden has two full ones) and pairing up characters more easily. i think most would agree that it's a much more solid game than gaiden.

[Etrurian emperor]

Which of those points don't also apply to Gaiden?

I'l admit I have a tendency to forget Gaiden even exists But it probably makes more sense to remake Genealogy. If all points do apply to both games than a remake would probably depend on the game which garners more interest and that's probably genealogy. It has a good reputation while Gaiden is rarely heard of.

[Jotari]

I'l admit I have a tendency to forget Gaiden even exists But it probably makes more sense to remake Genealogy. If all points do apply to both games than a remake would probably depend on the game which garners more interest and that's probably genealogy. It has a good reputation while Gaiden is rarely heard of.

That's precisely why I want to see Gaiden remade.

[secondworld]

I'm kinda weird about the idea of a Gaiden remake. There's so little there gameplay-wise that hasn't already been adapted into other games, and story-wise there's even less. I care so little about Gaiden and its ideas that haven't been reused yet that I don't care if it never gets a remake. To the point I'd even want a FE6 remake first. At the same time, it's because Gaiden is so barren and outdated that one could easily argue it needs a remake the most, and that's a good point so I wouldn't be against it either.

I would love a more polished Jugdral saga though, so I vote FE4.

[Jotari]

I'm kinda weird about the idea of a Gaiden remake. There's so little there gameplay-wise that hasn't already been adapted into other games, and story-wise there's even less. I care so little about Gaiden and its ideas that haven't been reused yet that I don't care if it never gets a remake. To the point I'd even want a FE6 remake first. At the same time, it's because Gaiden is so barren and outdated that one could easily argue it needs a remake the most, and that's a good point so I wouldn't be against it either.

I would love a more polished Jugdral saga though, so I vote FE4.

Five range bows, magic cast from hit points, defensive equipment and town exploration are just three of the ideas in Gaiden that haven't been explored yet (okay well I guess stuff like Iote's shield have shown up regularly but not something where you can choose between a weapon or a shield like in Gaiden). And it's not like its other ideas, villagers, three tier promotions, an army split, have been utilized to their full extent in the series (that is to say other games have used them but they're not considered staples in the series). When you compare all that to Holy War whose unique gameplay ideas are castles, rings and doubling as a skill, I think Gaiden has by far the most untapped gameplay ideas to explore (followed closely by Thracia who did have many of its features become staples of the series yet still has many more that have never even been attempted since).

[Jedi]

I'l admit I have a tendency to forget Gaiden even exists But it probably makes more sense to remake Genealogy. If all points do apply to both games than a remake would probably depend on the game which garners more interest and that's probably genealogy. It has a good reputation while Gaiden is rarely heard of.

Considering Gaiden is referenced in Awakening, to the point the nation that Alm & Co liberated is the location of one of the major arcs of the game. I think thats more likely.