Is there a reason why Azama is so bulky?

[Junkhead]

Fates did it (with a Berserker-like Str growth to boot), and now Heroes. Only thing I can think of is the fact he's a monk...? Like, seriously, bruh.

[Lushen]

I don't mean to be that guy but we do have a general discussion thread.  

Anyways, I think Azama is only moderately bulky, 30 defense is not much at only 40 hp and 23 res.  Also because there is no magic stat and all heals are independent of stats, what makes a good healer (w/o wrathful staff) is that they are very bulky.  Azama also isn't actually that bulky considering he only has 25 speed, which is why he's not very good.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Lushen

[Johann]

Perhaps you might not have noticed that he's not a little girl or an old man. His great power no doubt comes from a life of growing, picking, and eating beans.

Azama is one of those characters that I keep in the back of my mind like "yeah, someday, I'm going to make this happen".

[X-Naut]

Azama is canonically ripped (and bad with magic) and Heroes stats conform more to characters' personal stats than to their classes' stats.

[Interdimensional Observer]

56 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

Azama is canonically ripped (and bad with magic) and Heroes stats conform more to characters' personal stats than to their classes' stats.

Which for some may end up meaning "you were crap in your base game?" sorry, Heroes ain't coming to your rescue. Well for certain growths units I guess this isn't bad, Nino and Delthea to toss out some names, but Micaiah is gonna stay bad without access to a Brave, and Meg is going to be even worse. Fiona might be okay though, it was only her bases which were a problem, her growths weren't so bad (she'd be fast and durable in Heroes given her growths). Yet Heroes doesn't cling perfectly to character growths/stats, Azama had good Speed.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which for some may end up meaning "you were crap in your base game?" sorry, Heroes ain't coming to your rescue. Well for certain growths units I guess this isn't bad, Nino and Delthea to toss out some names, but Micaiah is gonna stay bad access to a Brave, and Meg is going to be even worse. Fiona might be okay though, it was only her bases which were a problem, her growths weren't so bad (she'd be fast and durable in Heroes given her growths). Yet Heroes doesn't cling perfectly to character growths/stats, Azama had good Speed.

Decreasing one stat in Heroes means necessarily increasing another, meaning the worst that can happen to a character is they get a bad spread (their base stat total and growth rate total is always going to be the same as every other character in their class).

Meg is going to have ridiculous stats if she gets counted as an armored trainee (unless they seriously screw up her stat spread).

[mcsilas]

It's because they gave him the lowest Attack in the game so they made up with it by making him physically bulky

also he was originally designed to be a Martyr healer and annoy you with Pain

[Lushen]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Decreasing one stat in Heroes means necessarily increasing another, meaning the worst that can happen to a character is they get a bad spread (their base stat total and growth rate total is always going to be the same as every other character in their class).

Meg is going to have ridiculous stats if she gets counted as an armored trainee (unless they seriously screw up her stat spread).

<3 Meg.  I don't care if she's not worth building, speedy armored unit is awesome.

And in FEH a speedy armored unit might actually be fairly decent.  Meg would also be good just because in her base game she has better resistance growth than defense which is uncommon among armored units so she'd have a unique role on an armored team.  

Edited August 2, 2017 by Lushen

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, Lushen said:

<3 Meg.  I don't care if she's not worth building, speedy armored unit is awesome.

And in FEH a speedy armored unit might actually be fairly decent.  Meg would also be good just because in her base game she has better resistance growth than defense which is uncommon among armored units so she'd have a unique role on an armored team.

So I tried a thing to see how it would turn out.

FE10 base stats: 21/10/8/10/5
FE10 growth rates: 60/35/65/35/50

3-star base stats: 15/8/6/8/4
growth rates: 70/45/70/45/65

5-star level 40 stats: 47/29/38/29/33 (176 total)

 

What the hell is this spread I don't even?

In FE10, her Str and Def were both higher than her Spd and Res at max level, but that was only because she cap rams Spd and Res so stupidly hard and the caps were so low.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

So I tried a thing to see how it would turn out.

FE10 base stats: 21/10/8/10/5
FE10 growth rates: 60/35/65/35/50

3-star base stats: 15/8/6/8/4
growth rates: 70/45/70/45/65

5-star level 40 stats: 47/29/38/29/33 (176 total)

 

What the hell is this spread I don't even?

In FE10, her Str and Def were both higher than her Spd and Res at max level, but that was only because she cap rams Spd and Res so stupidly hard and the caps were so low.

Lol she's like a flier.

[DehNutCase]

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Decreasing one stat in Heroes means necessarily increasing another, meaning the worst that can happen to a character is they get a bad spread (their base stat total and growth rate total is always going to be the same as every other character in their class).

Meg is going to have ridiculous stats if she gets counted as an armored trainee (unless they seriously screw up her stat spread).

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

So I tried a thing to see how it would turn out.

FE10 base stats: 21/10/8/10/5
FE10 growth rates: 60/35/65/35/50

3-star base stats: 15/8/6/8/4
growth rates: 70/45/70/45/65

5-star level 40 stats: 47/29/38/29/33 (176 total)

 

What the hell is this spread I don't even?

In FE10, her Str and Def were both higher than her Spd and Res at max level, but that was only because she cap rams Spd and Res so stupidly hard and the caps were so low.

60 speed, 0 atk, 0 defense, 0 res---sounds like Meg to me. She's basically the definition of how not to optimize your growths---which is salvageable if she wasn't a trainee unit with shitty bases. I mean, yeah, even Gatrie suffered from armor-line caps in FE10, but at least he had two other 60s in Atk and Def as well, even if his speed growth is just there for memes.

Edited August 3, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Silith13]

I am using a -atk/+spd Azama as pseudo tank/healer that will just chip down health bars with that guaranteed 10 (non-lethal) damage.

[Marbels]

if you patch up Azama's spd and res he becomes better than he looks.

I got a 4+7 Azama and hes a pretty good wall.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

So I won a $25 iTunes card today at school.

@Rezzy @MaskedAmpharos @GuiltyLove @Anime27Arts @LordFrigid @Astolfo! @Legion! @Ice Dragon @SatsumaFSoysoy @Motendra

You guys tell me which banner I'm doing a full summon on.

Why this thread lol? You want an Azama?

CYL banner if you want the cool kids, TT for practicality. How many of the CYL dudes do you have?

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Why this thread lol? You want an Azama?

CYL banner if you want the cool kids, TT for practicality. How many of the CYL dudes do you have?

I meant to post it in the Official Pull Thread. But I didn't notice I was on the wrong thread til it was too late. LOL. (phones, I tell you)

And yes, I definitely want a +Spd/-Atk Azama. Please. LOL

[mcsilas]

@MarbelsNow that I think about it, a +Spd/-Atk Azama with Fortress Res and HP+3 survives any neutral attack (0 wins, 0 losses!). That's pretty impressive.

edit: Without the HP+3 seal, he only loses to Brave Lucina on the counter attack.

Edited September 6, 2017 by mcsilas

[eclipse]

Techincally a necropost?  Yes.

But I happen to like Azama, and he's on-track to be my first +10 unit.  I like the Fortress Res idea. . .if I can get Innes!

[TheTuckingFypo]

1 hour ago, mcsilas said:

@MarbelsNow that I think about it, a +Spd/-Atk Azama with Fortress Res and HP+3 survives any neutral attack (0 wins, 0 losses!). That's pretty impressive.

edit: Without the HP+3 seal, he only loses to Brave Lucina on the counter attack.

Yes! I actually have already done an explanation on the build here.

 

[mcsilas]

20 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Yes! I actually have already done an explanation on the build here.

 

Oh nice!

I wish I could pull a 5 star Azama one day (Feathers too valuable for him though). Probably one of the few that don't outright hate him, and his bulkiness really makes me like him more. 

Even my 3 star -Def, +Atk Azama survives a fair bit

[Hilda]

On 2.8.2017 at 11:02 PM, Lushen said:

I don't mean to be that guy but we do have a general discussion thread.  

Anyways, I think Azama is only moderately bulky, 30 defense is not much at only 40 hp and 23 res.  Also because there is no magic stat and all heals are independent of stats, what makes a good healer (w/o wrathful staff) is that they are very bulky.  Azama also isn't actually that bulky considering he only has 25 speed, which is why he's not very good.

I like my +3 Azama, he has 41 Defense and 45 HP and makes him a very good physical wall. His Atk is so low that i went with a -Atk and +Def nature, since well he wont nuke anyway nothing into oblivion since he is a healer.

[TheTuckingFypo]

11 hours ago, mcsilas said:

Oh nice!

I wish I could pull a 5 star Azama one day (Feathers too valuable for him though). Probably one of the few that don't outright hate him, and his bulkiness really makes me like him more. 

Even my 3 star -Def, +Atk Azama survives a fair bit

He has to be promoted to 5*. I disagree though. He deserves those feathers. He fits in perfectly with my team of Marth, Delthea and Cherche. (That, and I already gave him Live to Serve 3). Lol

I currently have a 4* +Def/-Res Azama. Still tanking.

[Junkhead]

On 5/9/2017 at 10:59 PM, Marbels said:

if you patch up Azama's spd and res he becomes better than he looks.

I got a 4+7 Azama and hes a pretty good wall.

I had a 4*+10 Azama in mind a while back, but I barely even have one.

On 6/9/2017 at 0:22 AM, TheTuckingFypo said:

Yes! I actually have already done an explanation on the build here.

That's also a good idea, because the very very few characters that can kill him are 2-3 magic users (Nino, Tharja and Celica, I think). My idea was to have him on Fortress Def, as it would make him even more disgustingly tanky. However, if you can have him avoid getting doubled by most hard-hitting phyisicals, that's also a good start.

 

It has come to my attention that healers are very underrated in the current meta. I've spent a short period in which I would look through their potential, and ultimately narrow it down to Azama being arguably the best of his kind. Staff users are more than just healers in this game, because they also serve as indirect buffers/debuffers (Balms, most of their attacks as well as their Threatens).

Guess I'm spilling some beans here, but I'm feeling generous. Have a look,

 

+Spd/-Atk

A: Fortress Def/Res

B: Breaker-skills (either Sword or G.Tomebreaker). Live to Serve is also clearly a decent option, as well as a possible troll in Obstruct.

C: Threaten Atk or Spd

 

Attack: Slow/Fear/Gravity

Special: Swift Winds Balm

Healing: Martyr might actually work at least as well as Rehabilitate. Think of that.

 

 

- Breaker skills, as well his +Spd nature are meant to have him avoid getting doubled by common enemy types. You want him to survive, and people will want to kill him because he gets any more annoying through a buffer/debuffer role, as well as keeping people alive.

- Obstruct + Gravity might be a really funny choice.

- C skill, as always, runs pretty flexible. That said, he may also run an Hone for extra buffing capabilities.

- I heavily consider Martyr in place of Rehab because it cures based on the healer's own damage (of which Azama can sustain) as well as healing their own self.

- Balms are heavily overlooked. You're healing someone as well as basically throwing a Rally at them, and everyone else on the field. Think of that, for a moment.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Soul~! said:

It has come to my attention that healers are very underrated in the current meta. I've spent a short period in which I would look through their potential, and ultimately narrow it down to Azama being arguably the best of his kind. Staff users are more than just healers in this game, because they also serve as indirect buffers/debuffers (Balms, most of their attacks as well as their Threatens).

I guess it's hyperoffense being too good, and Staffs dealing half damage being too bad. Plus healers not healing for all that much I think. Buffs and debuffs can be handled via better skills and weapons.

This said, I'd be interested in seeing what a mono-Staff (or pure Colorless, or mono-Color) team could do. For pure Staffs- CC + WS + whatever and an Absorb for a tank? Savage Blow + Pain for crippling?

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I guess it's hyperoffense being too good, and Staffs dealing half damage being too bad. Plus healers not healing for all that much I think. Buffs and debuffs can be handled via better skills and weapons.

This said, I'd be interested in seeing what a mono-Staff (or pure Colorless, or mono-Color) team could do. For pure Staffs- CC + WS + whatever and an Absorb for a tank? Savage Blow + Pain for crippling?

You're implying as if it having one of them is to go out of your way, when you can only really gain from that (with the exception of having a really good bow user). And it's not like they even really need to do damage to be useful, to which Azama is almost the perfect example of. All he really needs to do is live, so he can be both, useful to the team as well as an itch to the opponent. Having a 4th unit (which is basically an "extra", since you've generally got your colours down) also takes away from having one of said units have to commit to others, when you can have said healer do that job for you. Rehabilitate and Martyr can also heal a lot of damage, to even all of it.

I've experimented with the thought of a colourless team. Now that Cancel Affanity is a thing, it may be possible.