General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Alexmender]

I'm so glad I have all 4 of the CYL1 units, still I'll probably go Lucina>Ike>Roy>>>>Lyn. Lyn's refine is good and all but it's a bit boring (and my Lyn is +Atk instead of +Spd and I don't feel like investing heavily in her). 

[redlight]

If only they go out of their way as much as with some of the non 5 star units.

[MilodicMellodi]

Okay, so here's my real review of the refines, from least favorite to most (which is actually a lot more difficult than usual, because IS tends to always have at least 1 unit get the Shit Stick).

Ike's Urvan, while my least favorite of the four, isn't bad at all. He gains 40% damage reduction for the first attack, but he gives the foe free Desperation in response. While one might think this is bad, it's actually really good for him.
1) If you don't like it, you can just give him the Hardy Bearing seal. He retains the damage reduction while nullifying the Desperation effect.
2) Due to his natural Steady Breath and Urvan's "Killer" effect, he'll always be able to fully charge a 4-cooldown Aether before he attacks. With permanent damage reduction, not only will he take a lot less damage but he'll also get his HP back and deal a shitload of damage in the process.
3) With Urvan's "Killer" and damage reduction effects, Brave!Ike becomes the first unit to actually consider builds using Pavise or Aegis. Shield Pulse helps this along, not only fully-charging the Special at the start but also reducing damage by a fixed amount (which can't be easily chipped by things like Luna or Moonbow). The foe attacks, triggering Pavise/Aegis and the 40% damage reduction, then attacks again thanks to Urvan's forced Desperation effect, then Ike attacks. At the end of the battle, Pavise/Aegis is fully charged again. We finally have a real, stable competitive use for Pavise and Aegis!!!
All-in-all, Ike becomes something of a super-tank no matter what you give him. Even the likes of Black Knight will have trouble getting around a dedicated Brave!Ike now. He'll easily make a great niche in many a team.

Lyn's Mulagir is the second. Its original effect has now been upgraded to nullify the bonuses of any ranged foes facing her, and the refine effect grants her All+4 if her Spd is higher than her foe's. On a unit whose base Spd (without Mulagir) as an asset is 38 (which becomes 41 with Mulagir), this is a very strong upgrade and practically guarantees that Brave!Lyn will gain her All+4 against pretty much any ranged foe.
This gives her the ability to be a major threat to ranged foes, while still retaining her anti-DC role thanks to Sacae's Blessing. With her status as a cavalry unit, she can even use Lull Spd/Def as a replacement for Sacae's Blessing to give herself dominance against melee foes as well (at the risk of allowing them to counterattack with DC).
While not being the most major refine effect, Lyn's plays to her strengths very well. She's a great choice for a refine if you want to have a strong ranged cavalry unit in your party.

Next is Roy. First, his base effect is upgraded, now including a Guard effect; in addition,  the Heavy Blade effect he used to have no longer has an Atk requirement, giving him the extra charge for free as long as he initiates. Next, his refine gives him a "Steady Impact" effect, granting him Spd+7 and Def+10, as well as preventing the foe from making a follow-up attack when he initiates. This is unprecedented for a cavalry unit, as they lack access to Impact skills. In combination with his own Steady Blow, this gives him a total of Spd/Def +11/14 when initiating, making him not only very fast but very physically durable just under his own power. And with Desperation already in his base kit, you better believe he'll be triggering it AND Galeforce.
To many Horse Emblem teams out there, this is a major buff. A cavalry unit with the ability to fully charge Galeforce with no retaliation? Yeah, that's very strong. Seriously. He and Brave!Lyn have given hope to Horse Emblem teams everywhere.

Finally, Brave!Lucina. Not only does she have arguably the best refine out there, but she's been my favorite unit since I got her. First she gains anti-dragon effectiveness, largely mitigating a major threat to her because of her sub-par Res. Next, she finishes up the Physical Drive effect by adding Def and Res to the mix, granting it Spectrum status. Finally, any one of these Physical allies within 2 spaces (and therefore affected by her Spectrum Drive) gains a free Breath effect, which combined with the Drive effect might as well be Spectrum Breath.
So, stupid naming aside, she has anti-dragon effectiveness and Spectrum Physical Drive Breath. I'll just call it SPDB if I mention it again.
This makes Brave!Lucina a major addition to any teams that use physical allies other than her, since the Breath skills are restricted to Melee Infantry and Melee Armored units only. Hell, you can make a full team with the above units and herself...but that's a can of worms I don't want to continue digging up right now. Cavalry and Flying units benefit the most from this, as they previously didn't have any way to get effective cooldown charging (even if it's only their physical units that benefit).
Still, all of this doesn't prevent her from retaining an offensive role in her team thanks to the anti-dragon effectiveness. Not only can she inherit Ruptured Sky to become even more of an effective Dragonslayer, but her own high Atk and Spd (as well as her good Def, due to the stat's superboon and her weapon's stat addition) ensure she can use many other skills to great effect. I myself have several different (and powerful) builds on her, and including this weapon in that list of builds will be no problem at all.

All-in-all, this is my favorite refine update by far. IS normally screws around with their units, even sometimes making their weapon worse in comparison to the original...but this time, they gave us what the units needed. I'll be enjoying these new additions for a long time.

Edited September 5, 2019 by MilodicMellodi

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Dang, I like the look of ALL these refines. They really treated the CYL 1 cast well. Lyn's plays to her strengths, Ike's gonna tank like no one's business, Lucina helps herself AND her melee allies, and Roy might have just become a contender for best sword cav? Nice.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Dang, I like the look of ALL these refines. They really treated the CYL 1 cast well. Lyn's plays to her strengths, Ike's gonna tank like no one's business, Lucina helps herself AND her melee allies, and Roy might have just become a contender for best sword cav? Nice.

he can't be the best sword Cav with Legendary Eliwood around. Granted its a different role

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Dang I want to change ivs for BLyn from +atk to +speed. And get a better iv for b Lucina. Getting steady breath for her allies is nuts.

9 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

I'm so glad I have all 4 of the CYL1 units, still I'll probably go Lucina>Ike>Roy>>>>Lyn. Lyn's refine is good and all but it's a bit boring (and my Lyn is +Atk instead of +Spd and I don't feel like investing heavily in her). 

Unless you're consistently going up against opponents running a Spd Solo or Bond skills or you're at a significant merge disadvantage, +Atk is slightly better than +Spd since there aren't quite that many units that run Spd boosts that are active on enemy phase. A lot of the fast units these days that are threatening are threatening because of Swift Sparrow and Darting Blow with Life and Death and Fury taking more of a back seat.

 

3 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

3) With Urvan's "Killer" and damage reduction effects, Brave!Ike becomes the first unit to actually consider builds using Pavise or Aegis.

No, Pavise and Aegis are a complete waste of the Special slot unless you're building him for an Arena or Aether Raids defense team. Damage reduction is multiplicative, not additive, meaning 50% damage reduction on top of 40% damage reduction is only 70% damage reduction. Sure, 70% is still high, but you can easily get better mileage out of Aether, which has both healing and damage output.

With just Urvan, Ike only takes 80% of a single hit's worth of damage over the course of 2 of the opponent's hits, which means that any opponent that wasn't capable of one-hit killing Ike outright prior to the refine simply cannot kill him in one round of combat at all, and if Ike still has a Breath skill or support from the new Geirskogul, he can have Aether fully charged on his counterattack to heal himself back up.

I can only barely see Aegis as a possible option for an Aether Raids offense tank build, but Aegis runs into a serious issue where he can easily be worn down by multiple rounds of combat without a means of healing in between.

 

Also, Raven was the first unit to have Pavise as a competitive option when in player control. Saber was the first unit (and is pretty much still the only unit) to have Aegis as a competitive option when in player control.

[MilodicMellodi]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, Pavise and Aegis are a complete waste of the Special slot unless you're building him for an Arena or Aether Raids defense team. Damage reduction is multiplicative, not additive, meaning 50% damage reduction on top of 40% damage reduction is only 70% damage reduction. Sure, 70% is still high, but you can easily get better mileage out of Aether, which has both healing and damage output.

With just Urvan, Ike only takes 80% of a single hit's worth of damage over the course of 2 of the opponent's hits, which means that any opponent that wasn't capable of one-hit killing Ike outright prior to the refine simply cannot kill him in one round of combat at all, and if Ike still has a Breath skill or support from the new Geirskogul, he can have Aether fully charged on his counterattack to heal himself back up.

I can only barely see Aegis as a possible option for an Aether Raids offense tank build, but Aegis runs into a serious issue where he can easily be worn down by multiple rounds of combat without a means of healing in between.

I said he can seriously consider it, not that it'd be his main build. Still, he does make for a very effective user of it.
But yes, he's obviously better with Aether. I'm not sure how you fell under the assumption that I said otherwise.

And I was one of the only ones on here and gamepress who advocated for the Slaying weapon/Aether/Breath combo back when the Inheritance mechanic first began in FEH. I intimately know the power and potential behind Enemy Phase Aether builds.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I said he can seriously consider it, not that it'd be his main build. Still, he does make for a very effective user of it.

I wouldn't even put it under consideration unless you're planning on using him on a defense team or you're seriously strapped for better fodder (but somehow have spare copies of Shield Pulse). Pavise and Aegis are really just that awful.

[Anacybele]

Urvan forcing Desperation onto the foe is hilariously awesome. lol I can't wait to make use of that!

[KMT4ever]

Oh boy, my favored L!Ike + B!Lucina combo just got even better. +3 Def/Res already does wonders for his Radiant Aether-tanking ability, but since Breath effects don't stack I could even replace Warding Breath with a superior Stance skill since I basically keep Lucina glued to him at all times. Unfortunately PA!Olivia is the only source of Bracing Stance right now (Sacred Seal when?) and I'm definitely not sacrificing my only flying dancer. Or I could put her next to L!Marth and fire off Fire Emblem every combat. The possibilities are endless...

• Lyn's refine looks solid, but nothing special. She can always use more stats, but I don't think she's a high priority.
• Roy's refine looks incredibly well suited for his role as offensive sword cavalry. Special Fighter combined with Steady Impact seems like it'll make safely using Galeforce a cinch. Throw in the Armored or Sturdy Blow seal and he'll be almost invulnerable on the attack. Definitely the next refine on my to-do list.
• Ike's is certainly interesting, playing off of Urvan to the max. Combining it with Distant Counter and Geirskogul's refine will make him basically invincible. Even without Distant Counter he'll still be incredibly hard to shift without extremely powerful magic, and he could easily be given the Warding Stance seal to prevent even that.

If only every Refinery update was this good...

[Zeo]

I. CALLED. THAT. EFFECT. Remember when I said Urvan would have DR on the first hit for his refine @Etheus ? The forced Desperation effect is basically just an "F you" new life has just been breathed into B!Ike. He's a terrifying tank now. His biggest issue was that he couldn't generally heal well with Aether because with QR he'd chop away most of the opponents HP. He couldn't counter mages, if he had DC then the effect would be useless as well so it really only worked against braves. Now he can just tank both hits and get the full effect of Aether healing and a hit after that just to make sure they're dead. He's gonna be a monster. QR in the B slot and Fierce Stance 6 in the seal slot would make for a terrifying unit here.

B!Lucinas shoots her back up to the near top in terms of Support. Spectrum Breath for her allies (within 2 spaces?!) and a Dragonslaying effect? Man I hate that she's the only one I don't have yet. I've got to pull her.

B!Roy's refine is just busted. Special Fighter for one thing so he'll always get the bonus special cooldown and then Steady Impact on top of it. So the opponent can't proc a special if Roy attacks and they'll barely be able to hurt him. It's just nonsense. And oh yeah he's pretty much guaranteed to double also. The only concern is that with that much DEF it'll probably be hard to get him into Desperation range if you run Galeforce. But then again maybe he could have a bit more flexibility now.

Lyn's is meh. She's not all that fast anymore. I'll probably pass on it, but it's alright. She basically becomes +10 if she's faster than her opponent. Or +20 if you have a +10 already.

Ike and Roy's are a must. Lucinas when I get her. Lyn's a hard pass sadly.

[Kaden]

Eliwood is so damn lucky that his son showed up with Blazing Durandal for CYL and he was able to gain access to it later on.

[FoxyGrandpa]

2 minutes ago, Zeo said:

I. CALLED. THAT. EFFECT. Remember when I said Urvan would have DR on the first hit for his refine @Etheus ? The forced Desperation effect is basically just an "F you" new life has just been breathed into B!Ike. He's a terrifying tank now. His biggest issue was that he couldn't generally heal well with Aether because with QR he'd chop away most of the opponents HP. He couldn't counter mages, if he had DC then the effect would be useless as well so it really only worked against braves. Now he can just tank both hits and get the full effect of Aether healing and a hit after that just to make sure they're dead. He's gonna be a monster. QR in the B slot and Fierce Stance 6 in the seal slot would make for a terrifying unit here.

B!Lucinas shoots her back up to the near top in terms of Support. Spectrum Breath for her allies (within 2 spaces?!) and a Dragonslaying effect? Man I hate that she's the only one I don't have yet. I've got to pull her.

B!Roy's refine is just busted. Special Fighter for one thing so he'll always get the bonus special cooldown and then Steady Impact on top of it. So the opponent can't proc a special if Roy attacks and they'll barely be able to hurt him. It's just nonsense. And oh yeah he's pretty much guaranteed to double also. The only concern is that with that much DEF it'll probably be hard to get him into Desperation range if you run Galeforce. But then again maybe he could have a bit more flexibility now.

Lyn's is meh. She's not all that fast anymore. I'll probably pass on it, but it's alright. She basically becomes +10 if she's faster than her opponent. Or +20 if you have a +10 already.

Ike and Roy's are a must. Lucinas when I get her. Lyn's a hard pass sadly.

Can't speak for everyone, but from my experience, getting into Desperation range usually gets in the way of charging Galeforce if Roy kills the opponent. The added Defense from Steady Impact has the potential to open up new strats for him using other skills like Lunge, so he does also benefit in that way.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

32 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Eliwood is so damn lucky that his son showed up with Blazing Durandal for CYL and he was able to gain access to it later on.

its even better than that. He was the first who get weapon pass off until they stopped doing that after i believe Eldigan and Leprechaun

 

 

.....i still want my busted Ardent Durandal Vanilawood darnit!

and Exalted Falchion Marth OG

31 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Can't speak for everyone, but from my experience, getting into Desperation range usually gets in the way of charging Galeforce if Roy kills the opponent. The added Defense from Steady Impact has the potential to open up new strats for him using other skills like Lunge, so he does also benefit in that way.

Exactly my thought. BRoy was always able to one round force when trading hits. while desperation tend to be very good(sadly) theres probably a possible way to experiment with Broy now, for example Lul ATK DEF

[mampfoid]

It seems I need to spend some rocks now. 

2 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

3) With Urvan's "Killer" and damage reduction effects, Brave!Ike becomes the first unit to actually consider builds using Pavise or Aegis. Shield Pulse helps this along, not only fully-charging the Special at the start but also reducing damage by a fixed amount (which can't be easily chipped by things like Luna or Moonbow). The foe attacks, triggering Pavise/Aegis and the 40% damage reduction, then attacks again thanks to Urvan's forced Desperation effect, then Ike attacks. At the end of the battle, Pavise/Aegis is fully charged again. We finally have a real, stable competitive use for Pavise and Aegis!!!
All-in-all, Ike becomes something of a super-tank no matter what you give him. Even the likes of Black Knight will have trouble getting around a dedicated Brave!Ike now. He'll easily make a great niche in many a team.

Aether already seems very good for him, perhaps Miracle would make him even more annoying in AR. 

DC finally makes sense on him. 

What do you think, @Javi Blizz ?

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

He's gonna be a monster. QR in the B slot and Fierce Stance 6 in the seal slot would make for a terrifying unit here.

I'm not sure if QR is the best option for Ike anymore. Perhaps Mythic boost or Null C-Disrupt? 

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

The only concern is that with that much DEF it'll probably be hard to get him into Desperation range if you run Galeforce. But then again maybe he could have a bit more flexibility now.

That and getting into WoM range is the thing. I pretty much need Fury 4 for him now. 

46 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Exactly my thought. BRoy was always able to one round force when trading hits. while desperation tend to be very good(sadly) theres probably a possible way to experiment with Broy now, for example Lul ATK DEF

Oh, nice idea! Let's hope the next free unit comes with. 

 

 

[Javi Blizz]

44 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

It seems I need to spend some rocks now. 

Aether already seems very good for him, perhaps Miracle would make him even more annoying in AR. 

DC finally makes sense on him. 

What do you think, @Javi Blizz ?

I'm not sure if QR is the best option for Ike anymore. Perhaps Mythic boost or Null C-Disrupt? 

 

 

I’ve just woken up, so I still need to read and understand how it works. For now, the best thing is the HP+3 for his Infantry Pulse. But if I have to give him DC...another more for the list hahahahaha

[Ice Dragon]

50 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

I'm not sure if QR is the best option for Ike anymore. Perhaps Mythic boost or Null C-Disrupt? 

Quick Riposte is probably still the best option unless you're running into opponents with Null Follow-Up.

If Null Follow-Up is an issue, I'd switch out Quick Riposte for Lull Atk/Def if you can get your hands on it. Alternatively, you can also use Wrath to maximize single-hit damage.

If you're running Ike without a Breath effect, Special Spiral is also an option as long as you have some means of getting the first Aether to activate (Velouria, Time's Pulse, etc.).

[mampfoid]

14 minutes ago, Javi Blizz said:

I’ve just woken up, so I still need to read and understand how it works. For now, the best thing is the HP+3 for his Infantry Pulse. But if I have to give him DC...another more for the list hahahahaha

Good morning then! :- )

Curious how you will build Ike now. 

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Quick Riposte is probably still the best option unless you're running into opponents with Null Follow-Up.

I was more thinking of Dazzling staff and Firesweep. 

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Lull Atk/Def if you can get your hands on it.

Lul ATK/DEF would go directly to Roy. 

I'm considering the refine for Ike, he is not getting rare skills anytime soon. I'm not using him that much. 

 

[Hilda]

I am happy for Ikes refine. But just remember he can still be Enemy phased into oblivion the Desperation effect only kicks in when the opponent intiates. This all depends on the Tank you are using to Enemy phase him, if its a fast tank that has 5 higher Speed then Ike then you will have trouble Enemy phasing him, if its a slow Tank with just QR they will kill him. Obviously Red units wont have any trouble killing him in Enemy or player phase.

[Ice Dragon]

21 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Obviously Red units wont have any trouble killing him in Enemy or player phase.

Um... against +10 Brave Ike [+Atk] (Urvan [unique], Distant Counter) with no other skills and no buffs:

• +10 Sword Reinhardt [+Atk] (Meisterschwert, Death Blow 3) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 18 HP.
• +10 Celica [+Spd] (Ragnarok [unique], Swift Sparrow 2) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 6 HP.
• +10 Ayra [+Spd] (Ayra's Blade, Regnal Astra, Swift Sparrow 2) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 16 HP.
• +10 Legendary Marth [+Spd] (Exalted Falchion) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 18 HP.
• +10 Legendary Marth [+Spd] (Exalted Falchion, Fire Emblem, Flashing Blade 3) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 16 HP.

Red units have a lot of trouble killing Ike.

+10 Palla [+Atk] (Whitewing Blade [unique] (active), Death Blow 3) +14/14/14/14 kills him just fine, though, if that's any consolation. Triangle Adept Triangle Attack OP please nerf.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Zeo]

12 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I am happy for Ikes refine. But just remember he can still be Enemy phased into oblivion the Desperation effect only kicks in when the opponent intiates. This all depends on the Tank you are using to Enemy phase him, if its a fast tank that has 5 higher Speed then Ike then you will have trouble Enemy phasing him, if its a slow Tank with just QR they will kill him. Obviously Red units wont have any trouble killing him in Enemy or player phase.

I don't know about that...

 

 

[Hilda]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Um... against +10 Brave Ike [+Atk] (Urvan [unique], Distant Counter) with no other skills and no buffs:

• +10 Sword Reinhardt [+Atk] (Meisterschwert, Death Blow 3) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 18 HP.
• +10 Celica [+Spd] (Ragnarok [unique], Swift Sparrow 2) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 6 HP.
• +10 Ayra [+Spd] (Ayra's Blade, Regnal Astra, Swift Sparrow 2) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 16 HP.
• +10 Legendary Marth [+Spd] (Exalted Falchion) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 18 HP.
• +10 Legendary Marth [+Spd] (Exalted Falchion, Fire Emblem, Flashing Blade 3) +6/6/6/6 leaves Ike with 16 HP.

Red units have a lot of trouble killing Ike.

Sword Reinhardt with Quick Riposte should definitly be able to Enemy phase him a Neutral SPD Reinhardt at +10 has 27 SPD, Ike has 32 SPD. Ergo Ike will double him. As I said it depends on the SPD of the Tank. Red Tanks with 27 SPD or less with QR will be able to Enemy phase kill Ike because he can double and thus his Urvan effect doesnt kick in. Anything with above that speed will have a hard time yeah, even if red. In that regard most melee Red units will have a hard time because most of them are speedy sword units. Red Dragon units should have no problem though due to his lower Res stat. WinterTharja, Sophia, Lyon, Garon, H!Myrrh, Tiki, Keaton, Hinata, Seliph, Xander, Idunn should have no problems to enemyphase him with the correct setup. They are slow and have the bulk which guarantees Ike to double getting rid of the Urvan 80% reduction effect if Ike Attacks.

Of course IF he runs Null Follow up it kinda gets impossible.

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Sword Reinhardt with Quick Riposte should definitly be able to Enemy phase him a Neutral SPD Reinhardt at +10 has 27 SPD, Ike has 32 SPD. Ergo Ike will double him. As I said it depends on the SPD of the Tank. Red Tanks with 27 SPD or less with QR will be able to Enemy phase kill Ike because he can double and thus his Urvan effect doesnt kick in. Anything with above that speed will have a hard time yeah, even if red. In that regard most melee Red units will have a hard time because most of them are speedy sword units. Red Dragon units should have no problem though due to his lower Res stat. WinterTharja, Sophia, Lyon, Garon, H!Myrrh, Tiki, Keaton, Hinata, Seliph, Xander, Idunn should have no problems to enemyphase him with the correct setup. They are slow and have the bulk which guarantees Ike to double getting rid of the Urvan 80% reduction effect if Ike Attacks.

Of course IF he runs Null Follow up it kinda gets impossible.

That still makes half of your statement false, though, since almost nothing kills Ike on player phase (without running Hardy Bearing), and even among the units you listed that can kill him on enemy phase, only a handful of them are actually in common use.

EDIT: Also, quite a few of those units (assuming all +10 merge, that would be Hinata, Seliph, Xander, and Idunn) are too fast for Ike to double them on initiation.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 hours ago, Zeo said:

I. CALLED. THAT. EFFECT. Remember when I said Urvan would have DR on the first hit for his refine @Etheus ? The forced Desperation effect is basically just an "F you" new life has just been breathed into B!Ike. He's a terrifying tank now. His biggest issue was that he couldn't generally heal well with Aether because with QR he'd chop away most of the opponents HP. He couldn't counter mages, if he had DC then the effect would be useless as well so it really only worked against braves. Now he can just tank both hits and get the full effect of Aether healing and a hit after that just to make sure they're dead. He's gonna be a monster. QR in the B slot and Fierce Stance 6 in the seal slot would make for a terrifying unit here.

B!Lucinas shoots her back up to the near top in terms of Support. Spectrum Breath for her allies (within 2 spaces?!) and a Dragonslaying effect? Man I hate that she's the only one I don't have yet. I've got to pull her.

B!Roy's refine is just busted. Special Fighter for one thing so he'll always get the bonus special cooldown and then Steady Impact on top of it. So the opponent can't proc a special if Roy attacks and they'll barely be able to hurt him. It's just nonsense. And oh yeah he's pretty much guaranteed to double also. The only concern is that with that much DEF it'll probably be hard to get him into Desperation range if you run Galeforce. But then again maybe he could have a bit more flexibility now.

Lyn's is meh. She's not all that fast anymore. I'll probably pass on it, but it's alright. She basically becomes +10 if she's faster than her opponent. Or +20 if you have a +10 already.

Ike and Roy's are a must. Lucinas when I get her. Lyn's a hard pass sadly.

Yeah, I remember theorycrafting a near identical effect to BIke's for a Hawkeye weapon refine, only to be told it was overpowered. Well, who is laughing now?

Edited September 5, 2019 by Etheus

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Yeah, I remember theorycrafting a near identical effect to BIke's for a Hawkeye weapon refine, only to be told it was overpowered. Well, who is laughing now?

I mean... that's because it is overpowered. Brave Ike is now probably the bulkiest unit in the entire game.