Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

What's your opinion on Snike Prims?  You suspected Fenrir a bit but I don't remember seeing you comment on Snike unless I just happened to miss it?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I don't do quote wall wars. So in the interest of not spending way more than I need/want formatting a bunch of things, read this as if each letter is representative of the quotes you pulled in order with numbers denoting your individual points within them to match yours.

A) 1. First off, mafia is WIFOM. Yes, I use WIFOM to make judgement calls all the time. I am indeed using your hypothetical quote for Refa. I used it specifically towards Refa because we have scummed together before and I was trying to get through to him that I wouldn't do a certain action and hope that if, he is town, he'd take into consideration our past history when analyzing my slot. You may have attempted to push a Prims wagon, but it still did not go through and I personally would not as scum.

2. The bolded part was just me saying "Your and BBM's Eurykins push resonated with me, it felt like you guys had found scum and blown it up for the thread to see." The BBM push was bad because he is one of the last people we should lynch today. There's Prims. There's Bard. There's Eury. There's Snike. I'd lynch all of these people before BBM. I don't think ANYONE in the game wants BBM as the lynch today. So because of that, I made a call that it's likelier for scum to push a BBM lynch than a townie. I do not care if you think the second bolded line is "really bad" or "really weird." Her BBM case is bad because he's one of the last people we should. I talked about the Refa ITP thing before; you can go back and find it but I'm not rehashing a point of discussion I've moved past and currently am not focusing on.

3. Yep, I wanted to stop the discussion. I had had enough discourse with Refa and we were reaching the point of diminishing returns; I also realized that it was pointless because I was not super confident in him being ITP and continuing to talk about it would not benefit anyone and just cause more confusion as you've demonstrated by bringing it up again.

B) That entire first paragraph is analysis of Bard/Refa. Bard being scum is dependent on Refa being town, which is an assumption I am not ready to make. I'll grant that I'd lynch Bard before Refa, though. Bard's in the scumpool; I just haven't pushed him for a lynch yet. If YOU perceive my Bard reasoning being better than mine for Prims/Eury,, then that's your opinion. I will just remind you that YOU yourself also have Prims on your list for similar reasons, and Eury's posts have earned her a wagon. 

C) I never said "Eh let's leave it to chance." In that same post, I expressed a sentiment of "I'm going to vote Prims, and I'm sure there will be more than enough content to analyze Eury with later." Those two statements are different.

D) I haven't played here since last year. I have probably played like 5 games here. If vigs shoot inactive players here, I did not know, nor would I base my playing off of it. I explained the Bard thing. I make associative reads regardless of alignment, and I stand by Bard/Refa being unaligned. It's a bit ridiculous that you're giving me flak for "lining up lynches" on two slots that YOU agree are scummy. I wanted Prims shot because I have stated I want his flip multiple times. Bard and Walrein are good shots too, but that's why I wanted Prims vigged. And what are you saying with that last sentence? I'm just throwing out a suggestion of vigging Prims if he lives in case the vig listens to me; I'm not overthinking about how hard it is to get him lynched, or vigged, or whatever.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

12 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Weapons, what's your opinion of omega/snike?  What do you feel about my case on them?

It's long and hard to read.

[Percivalé]

I fell asleep.

arcanite are you suggesting that I'm eury's buddy and I'm defending them in thread with meta?

I already said before I realize the meta argument isn't going to mean much to everyone and that's fine. Now that Prims has claimed I'm a little off-kilter and trying to decide who I want to lynch now. I wouldn't mind a Bard lynch but half of me is telling me I'm only finding him scummy off of a personal dislike of the way he's been playing the game, but he also hasn't been doing enough to make me not want to lynch him.

if we lynch eury I'm not 100% against it anymore but I'm so behind and trying to decide who I personally find a better lynch now

[Percivalé]

I felt really weird about snike but scum mayor in a 9/4 game is fucking stupid

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

The Prims claim throws a wrench in things.

I'm gonna take care of some stuff and think. For the record, I'm cool with Bard or Eury going as well.

[Shinori]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

I don't do quote wall wars. So in the interest of not spending way more than I need/want formatting a bunch of things, read this as if each letter is representative of the quotes you pulled in order with numbers denoting your individual points within them to match yours.

A) 1. First off, mafia is WIFOM. Yes, I use WIFOM to make judgement calls all the time. I am indeed using your hypothetical quote for Refa. I used it specifically towards Refa because we have scummed together before and I was trying to get through to him that I wouldn't do a certain action and hope that if, he is town, he'd take into consideration our past history when analyzing my slot. You may have attempted to push a Prims wagon, but it still did not go through and I personally would not as scum.

2. The bolded part was just me saying "Your and BBM's Eurykins push resonated with me, it felt like you guys had found scum and blown it up for the thread to see." The BBM push was bad because he is one of the last people we should lynch today. There's Prims. There's Bard. There's Eury. There's Snike. I'd lynch all of these people before BBM. I don't think ANYONE in the game wants BBM as the lynch today. So because of that, I made a call that it's likelier for scum to push a BBM lynch than a townie. I do not care if you think the second bolded line is "really bad" or "really weird." Her BBM case is bad because he's one of the last people we should. I talked about the Refa ITP thing before; you can go back and find it but I'm not rehashing a point of discussion I've moved past and currently am not focusing on.

3. Yep, I wanted to stop the discussion. I had had enough discourse with Refa and we were reaching the point of diminishing returns; I also realized that it was pointless because I was not super confident in him being ITP and continuing to talk about it would not benefit anyone and just cause more confusion as you've demonstrated by bringing it up again.

B) That entire first paragraph is analysis of Bard/Refa. Bard being scum is dependent on Refa being town, which is an assumption I am not ready to make. I'll grant that I'd lynch Bard before Refa, though. Bard's in the scumpool; I just haven't pushed him for a lynch yet. If YOU perceive my Bard reasoning being better than mine for Prims/Eury,, then that's your opinion. I will just remind you that YOU yourself also have Prims on your list for similar reasons, and Eury's posts have earned her a wagon. 

C) I never said "Eh let's leave it to chance." In that same post, I expressed a sentiment of "I'm going to vote Prims, and I'm sure there will be more than enough content to analyze Eury with later." Those two statements are different.

D) I haven't played here since last year. I have probably played like 5 games here. If vigs shoot inactive players here, I did not know, nor would I base my playing off of it. I explained the Bard thing. I make associative reads regardless of alignment, and I stand by Bard/Refa being unaligned. It's a bit ridiculous that you're giving me flak for "lining up lynches" on two slots that YOU agree are scummy. I wanted Prims shot because I have stated I want his flip multiple times. Bard and Walrein are good shots too, but that's why I wanted Prims vigged. And what are you saying with that last sentence? I'm just throwing out a suggestion of vigging Prims if he lives in case the vig listens to me; I'm not overthinking about how hard it is to get him lynched, or vigged, or whatever.

1: The prims wagon only didn't go through because he made one post before day ended and people decided to back off because of one post.  Just saying "Mafia is WIFOM" isn't a good enough argument imo and hiding scummy behavior behind saying that is bad.  If Prims is town does that mean you think everyone on his wagon is town or do you feel there is scum there?  I ask this because you say it's stupid for scum to attempt to push a Prims misslynch on day 1, so if he's town, does that make everyone on his wagon town?

2: If you think a push on BBM is so bad then why would scum do that?  You seem to make it out as obvious that BBM shouldn't be lynched, why?    You're wording here heavily implies that it's just a given that anyone who pushes BBM is bad.  With that argument wouldn't it be more likely for town to actually push BBM cause scum wouldn't want to push someone that 'no one wants to lynch'?  Just because in your opinion BBM shouldn't be lynched, which I think is weird because it heavily seems you're just stating BBM is town and I'm assuming it's based off his role claim which IS NOT enough for someone to seem so definite in their town read on someone.  I don't think this paragraph makes you look any better.

3: I don't really have much to respond to here, I can understand it to an extent.  I still think the whole wishy-washyness of your reads are really weird.

B: I can understand the reasoning here and I also recognize that is my opinion that I feel your Bard read is stronger than your other reads. I can't force you to vote them, it just stood out to me and is something I wanted you to respond to.  If you honestly feel your other reads are stronger than your bard read then so be it.

C: You did say there would be more content to analyze Eury with later but saying the word's "Coin-flip" implies chance, and is tonally bad.

D: I guess most of this makes sense.  I dislike the associative reads without flips or regardless of alignment because there isn't much actual info there outside of tone or gut until a flip happens.  But if it's your play style it's your play style and I can't really dispute it, but it doesn't come across as convincing or strong really.

 

I still want an Omega lynch at the moment.  I feel his decisiveness on his Prim read and his BBM read stand out to me a little too much from a town perspective and I dislike it.  I also haven't really liked his Prims vote in the first place so I'd like to go here.

@WeaponsofMassConstructionWishy-washy reads, decisiveness in reads early day 1, assumptions that specific people shouldn't be lynched no matter what in role madness game, Weak vote pressure and his vote on prims and then swap to eury and back to prims are really bad.

[Refa]

Prims' claim is fucking w/me.  My first reaction to 1x Deathproof is scummy af, why does town need a lynchproof.  Am I missing something here, because everyone else seems to be entirely cool with it while I'm like what is this game I don't even.

1 minute ago, Propeller Knight said:

I felt really weird about snike but scum mayor in a 9/4 game is fucking stupid

9/4 is pretty fucking stupid in the first place (don't @ me SB) considering scum has an end of day kill apparently.  My heart sank when I realized I wasn't even casing the right number of people.  I don't think a Scum!Mayor is impossible if it turns off in *YLO.

[BBM]

shinori I hate to tell you this but most of your setups have been really scumsided. i'm not sure which multiball game had the scum mayor but if it was the one where one team had the scum persuader, town got fucked by roles/setup harder in that game than in maybe any game ever. i trust sb's game balance more and I trust he wouldn't have scum mayor in 9:(4)

i could maybe be persuaded to lynch omega but I don't have time to read your case right now; will get to it later. my feeling though is that I'll get a better read on his alignment with a scumflip cuz I think interactions will be more telling than his actual play bc he has a weird playstyle

I don't think eury defending you is really indicative of her alignment; probably more indicative of her being your girlfriend. there are lots of other things to the case against her though. this is a summary of my case:

via I don't think anybody is suspicious of eury for her rolespec about my claim? I'm suspicious of her because she's insistent on saying that I misread things on purpose to mess people's reads up while not giving any evidence for why she thinks I am doing so in this game, just theory on why a hypothetical scum might do so. it's part of a larger context of her looking at things in isolation and calling them scummy without looking at the context surrounding them, like her pushing refa for having filler posts even though it was RVS, or her pushing me for "coasting" by not pressing arcanite more even though arcanite had already talked about everything going on at that time.

i don't think shinori interactions are a large part of the case against her either.

 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Just now, Refa said:

Prims' claim is fucking w/me.  My first reaction to 1x Deathproof is scummy af, why does town need a lynchproof.  Am I missing something here, because everyone else seems to be entirely cool with it while I'm like what is this game I don't even.

No, I actually am not opposed to killing Prims twice. I'm just floating out alternatives.

[Percivalé]

omega focusing so much on ITP hunting is scummy

[Percivalé]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

9/4 is pretty fucking stupid in the first place (don't @ me SB) considering scum has an end of day kill apparently.  My heart sank when I realized I wasn't even casing the right number of people.  I don't think a Scum!Mayor is impossible if it turns off in *YLO.

it is fucking stupid but in regards to what you said about "why does town need a lynchproof" why would scum need a lynchproof in 9/4 with a daykill? prims can still be ITP yeah but I'm a lot less confident in him being scum now.

##unvote by the way happy empty unvote yay

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, Propeller Knight said:

omega focusing so much on ITP hunting is scummy

This thing too.

You should read over my Omega case IMO.

[Percivalé]

I guess you can argue if there's a hostile ITP then scum having a deathproof is helpful but the fact that it's ALSO a lynchproof is what turns me away from thinking it's a scum role and yes I know I hate scumhunting purely off rolespec but I'm going with my gut because nothing else has been helping me

[Percivalé]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

This thing too.

You should read over my Omega case IMO.

I'm starting to like him as a lynch option. will read when I get back

[Shinori]

4 minutes ago, BBM said:

shinori I hate to tell you this but most of your setups have been really scumsided. i'm not sure which multiball game had the scum mayor but if it was the one where one team had the scum persuader, town got fucked by roles/setup harder in that game than in maybe any game ever. i trust sb's game balance more and I trust he wouldn't have scum mayor in 9:(4)

i could maybe be persuaded to lynch omega but I don't have time to read your case right now; will get to it later. my feeling though is that I'll get a better read on his alignment with a scumflip cuz I think interactions will be more telling than his actual play bc he has a weird playstyle

Will read the Eury case thing in a minute:

IT was the game with scum persuader but I also think that game was more scum-sided solely because of the two threads thing.  Scum didn't overall have that much power and it only got out of hand because there was 4 people in one thread on D2 I think which ended up forcing a like 4 hour hammer or something.

As long as you read over the omega case and comment on it later I'm fine.  I think there is a lot of merit to it.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I mean, I'd still be down to lynch Prims; I feel like I'm getting WIFOM'd hard though

[Percivalé]

risking a NL on day one though is )':

[Shinori]

For what it matters Eury has been typing for a long time and I'm stuck waiting for her to play Vidya games so I assume a massive wall is coming.

[Arcanite]

19 minutes ago, Propeller Knight said:

I fell asleep.

arcanite are you suggesting that I'm eury's buddy and I'm defending them in thread with meta?

That's what it kinda looked like yeah

At least now you say you're okay with a Eury lynch though so eh

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

that's now

not*

I hate mobile

I'm back now so yay

 

I'm going to finish what I think of Eury and also address my vote on Refa that has yet to change

As well as decide on who my main scum read is

And also state who I'm okay lynching even if my main scum read can't possibly be lynched

Yaaaayyy

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

5 minutes ago, Shinori said:

1: The prims wagon only didn't go through because he made one post before day ended and people decided to back off because of one post.  Just saying "Mafia is WIFOM" isn't a good enough argument imo and hiding scummy behavior behind saying that is bad.  If Prims is town does that mean you think everyone on his wagon is town or do you feel there is scum there?  I ask this because you say it's stupid for scum to attempt to push a Prims misslynch on day 1, so if he's town, does that make everyone on his wagon town?

2: If you think a push on BBM is so bad then why would scum do that?  You seem to make it out as obvious that BBM shouldn't be lynched, why?    You're wording here heavily implies that it's just a given that anyone who pushes BBM is bad.  With that argument wouldn't it be more likely for town to actually push BBM cause scum wouldn't want to push someone that 'no one wants to lynch'?  Just because in your opinion BBM shouldn't be lynched, which I think is weird because it heavily seems you're just stating BBM is town and I'm assuming it's based off his role claim which IS NOT enough for someone to seem so definite in their town read on someone.  I don't think this paragraph makes you look any better.

3: I don't really have much to respond to here, I can understand it to an extent.  I still think the whole wishy-washyness of your reads are really weird.

B: I can understand the reasoning here and I also recognize that is my opinion that I feel your Bard read is stronger than your other reads. I can't force you to vote them, it just stood out to me and is something I wanted you to respond to.  If you honestly feel your other reads are stronger than your bard read then so be it.

C: You did say there would be more content to analyze Eury with later but saying the word's "Coin-flip" implies chance, and is tonally bad.

D: I guess most of this makes sense.  I dislike the associative reads without flips or regardless of alignment because there isn't much actual info there outside of tone or gut until a flip happens.  But if it's your play style it's your play style and I can't really dispute it, but it doesn't come across as convincing or strong really.

 

I still want an Omega lynch at the moment.  I feel his decisiveness on his Prim read and his BBM read stand out to me a little too much from a town perspective and I dislike it.  I also haven't really liked his Prims vote in the first place so I'd like to go here.

@WeaponsofMassConstructionWishy-washy reads, decisiveness in reads early day 1, assumptions that specific people shouldn't be lynched no matter what in role madness game, Weak vote pressure and his vote on prims and then swap to eury and back to prims are really bad.

1. This first sentence is unprovable. Prims got wagoned (I'm going from memory here) with like at least 48 hours left in the dayphase; there are MANY things that could have happened to derail the wagon like a better pick coming up. The Prims wagon had Via, me, Weapons, Walrein, and maybe someone else I'm forgetting. I wouldn't lynch Via, myself, or Weapons. Walrein maybe, he looked good at the time but his disappearance has him trending down. I was saying that specifically for what I'd do as scum, I don't know these other guys' metas because I haven't played with them much.

2. Because scum benefit from bad pushes. Scum want to lynch townies. Pushing townies is usually bad. So they'll do it to advance their win condition. And yes, it's obvious BBM is a terrible play and I've already named a few people who should go before him. You have no idea why I have my attitude towards BBM, so coming up with a reason and pushing me is a bad play.

3C. Dude, you are being really surface-level with this. "Coin flip implies chance, and is tonally bad." What? It's an expression. I had two scummy reads and expressed that I was waffling between which one to go first. That's it, you're making this much bigger than it is.

I left out the stuff where there isn't more to say on my part. For the record, I don't really think Shinori is someone I want to lynch today. He looked good earlier; this push is wrong but I usually get one loud person coming at me when I roll town and he could be it here.

[Arcanite]

And now there's an Omega case too

Welp

Guess I'll say thoughts on that

[Percivalé]

arcanite do you think i'm scum????????

[Percivalé]

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

That's what it kinda looked like yeah

At least now you say you're okay with a Eury lynch though so eh

that seems like you're dropping that suggestion super easily

[Percivalé]

meh

##vote: omega

i like this.