We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[EvanManManMan]

Can somebody link me Shinori's reads? I would greatly appreciate it

[Percivalé]

4 hours ago, EvanManManMan said:

What no. Plenty of people are playing the game. Just because Makaze is the most active and seemingly the most invested doesn't mean the town physically can't function without them.

this

also enough people have been paranoid about makaze it makes sense why mafia would leave him alive

the last couple of games I've played maf has taken some really weird kills. so I don't rule anything out.

[Fable]

@EvanManManMan

Scum reads:

Athena
Kirsche

Leaning scum:

Walrein
Refa
BBM
Jaybee
Junko

Those are his reads from page 40

[Fable]

Wait a minute.......

So like a comment I had made in my QT with mack was other wolves in the lean pile besides junko seemed likely and that was before JB flipped. BBM was a villager and I think Refa is probably (even though wanting to share a QT with walrein over me makes no gd sense) so that leaves walrein and I guess now I'm kinda hesitating because is shinori the type to put more than half his team under a bus? Granted it wasn't really under a bus because he kept being like "they're wolfy but don't lynch them lynch these other people instead." but just like does he name all or most of the other wolves in that list? I think I need to read jaybee and junko again to check something out. 

[Fable]

Question does anyone remember if anyone was wolf reading athena before he got into a thing with satsuma? 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Walrein was wolfreading athena very early in the game, like page 4 I think? eclipse also read him wolf as well as zeus (now Makaze), and she was probably shot at and saved N1.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

How interesting that eclipse was shot at after suspecting athena and our one and only town hero, Makaze.

[Fable]

3 minutes ago, Omega. said:

How interesting that eclipse was shot at after suspecting athena and our one and only town hero, Makaze.

I'm rereading and I want to reiterate that athena is spewed like 96,000 different ways. 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I don't know how much you're looking through, but let me know how you feel about Walrein and anyone else after the fact. I'll vote anyone in my pool.

[Baldrick]

6 hours ago, Omega. said:

ITP/wolf!Marth as a self delayer/watcher's best strategy is to play wolfy. I don't personally think he was, but apparently this village does. But anyway, as an anti-village alignment his play is to play wolfy and then draw heat so he can PR hunt as many people as possible visiting him.

Deliberately scummy? No way. You have an investigative role, using your role like a villager would is far more important than using it for information.

6 hours ago, Omega. said:

He was being wagoned. He probably was not going to get lynched. At that point, Marth claims.

Him doing that as wolf/ITP directly goes against any decent strategy he has as an anti-town alignment at that point. He's literally taking his ace in the hole, and throwing it in the dumpster for no benefit other than to get people off his back when he has a history of getting frustrated with being wagoned/pressured.

The benefit is that mafia are aware of your claim, and have no reason to doubt you, so they won't target you.

6 hours ago, Omega. said:

So anyone sussing me; I invite you to look near the end of [D2], see how I treated Shinori, then ask yourself if I kill him despite laying the groundwork to suspect him.

I'd say you pushed Shinori a fair bit already. You said his Nightmare case could well be a ML push, noted his shade on Sully, and that he had BBM in his scumpool. Looking at the wider context, you seem to have had not a lot of support, and even a bit of heat from Snike for it. You could well have decided that he's not a reasonable lynch candidate.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

1. Deliberately scummy? No way. You have an investigative role, using your role like a villager would is far more important than using it for information.

2. The benefit is that mafia are aware of your claim, and have no reason to doubt you, so they won't target you.

3. I'd say you pushed Shinori a fair bit already. You said his Nightmare case could well be a ML push, noted his shade on Sully, and that he had BBM in his scumpool. Looking at the wider context, you seem to have had not a lot of support, and even a bit of heat from Snike for it. You could well have decided that he's not a reasonable lynch candidate.

1. I don't get what you're saying. The scenario I outlined is how a wolf/ITP would use it.

2. Mafia never target Marth for anything regardless; he was being read wolf and they don't waste a power on a ML option.

3. Lol @ me shooting Shinori. But really, he only looked worse after the flip, boyo. His hard resistance to Junko is/was the same thing he pulled with his partner Eury in Brexitland.

[Fable]

Can people articulate their Via reads for me? 

[Beru]

@Refa once I'm finished reading everything I'll know who to vote

hopefully

[Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, Omega. said:

1. I don't get what you're saying. The scenario I outlined is how a wolf/ITP would use it.

2. Mafia never target Marth for anything regardless; he was being read wolf and they don't waste a power on a ML option.

3. Lol @ me shooting Shinori. But really, he only looked worse after the flip, boyo. His hard resistance to Junko is/was the same thing he pulled with his partner Eury in Brexitland.

1. I disagree.

2. There's always the possibility he is townread later on. Tell me what benefit town Marth gets from fullclaiming.

[Baldrick]

Evan, click this

[Fable]

I don't think LG/Evan is a wolf. I got kinda hung up on the claim but LG's catch up N2 looked pretty good like not in terms of accuracy so much (though he did get JB pretty good) and Evan's effort has been good since subbing in. 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

1. I disagree.

2. There's always the possibility he is townread later on. Tell me what benefit town Marth gets from fullclaiming.

1. I still don't really get what you were saying, but whatever.

2. Yeah, no. BBM cleared himself villa with the late EoD switch to Junko over kirsche. I had just fed Shinori a bunch of BBM quotes to see if he would shit on him, and he did. There was a lot of ammo against Shinori with a) BBM looking way better after the flip and b) His resistance to the Junko wagon. It's a bad 3p kill; I'm not bad as 3p.

Please check this out: https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83026-i-dont-need-serenes-forest-mafia-mafia-5-day-4/&do=findComment&comment=5197659

 

[Makaze]

55 minutes ago, Fable said:

Wait a minute.......

So like a comment I had made in my QT with mack was other wolves in the lean pile besides junko seemed likely and that was before JB flipped. BBM was a villager and I think Refa is probably (even though wanting to share a QT with walrein over me makes no gd sense) so that leaves walrein and I guess now I'm kinda hesitating because is shinori the type to put more than half his team under a bus? Granted it wasn't really under a bus because he kept being like "they're wolfy but don't lynch them lynch these other people instead." but just like does he name all or most of the other wolves in that list? I think I need to read jaybee and junko again to check something out. 

In my view this is possible when the entire strategy of their team seems to be to make Shinori deep. JB and Walrein would both have been considered expendable in the long run compared to a scum inventor + strongman. What I don't think is that one of his higher scum reads is Mafia. What I just noticed is that both of his highest scum leans are co-networkers. Not sure if that's relevant, but I seriously doubt he'd case both of them as Mafia if he knew their roles. Especially if one of them was on his team.

Shinori had no choice but list Walrein as scummy after being called for shading him. I agree that he would have avoided it if he could have, and he actually denied even commenting on Walrein after shading him. He must have listed Walrein there to make it look like he was being consistent. See my Shinori/Walrein reacts post:

 

[Fable]

Yeah that reread didn't do much for me tbh other than make me think the things I already think which is this game makes 0 sense to me if walrein isn't a wolf and the most likely partner is the hydra so flip them and let's see what happens. 

Everybody else has reason they should be a villager or at least not wolf. 

[Makaze]

18 minutes ago, Omega. said:

1. I still don't really get what you were saying, but whatever.

2. Yeah, no. BBM cleared himself villa with the late EoD switch to Junko over kirsche. I had just fed Shinori a bunch of BBM quotes to see if he would shit on him, and he did. There was a lot of ammo against Shinori with a) BBM looking way better after the flip and b) His resistance to the Junko wagon. It's a bad 3p kill; I'm not bad as 3p.

Please check this out: https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83026-i-dont-need-serenes-forest-mafia-mafia-5-day-4/&do=findComment&comment=5197659

 

How is this a response to Baldrick's #2? He asked you how town!Marth benefited from fullclaiming. You talked about BBM in response. What?

[Baldrick]

 

13 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Please check this out: https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83026-i-dont-need-serenes-forest-mafia-mafia-5-day-4/&do=findComment&comment=5197659

I don't see why town would prefer getting people off their back to catching mafia. Anyway, claiming the delayer alone would do the former without compromising his role's ability to do the latter.

[Makaze]

33 minutes ago, Fable said:

Can people articulate their Via reads for me? 

Via is town. I have read every Via post and there seems to be no agenda.

They also seem genuinely lost and have 0 TMI.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

 

I don't see why town would prefer getting people off their back to catching mafia. Anyway, claiming the delayer alone would do the former without compromising his role's ability to do the latter.

It's Marth. He literally posted his role PM in the last game because he got pissed off that people were on his wagon. So he was probably sick of people wagoning him all the time and fullclaimed without considering everything. Not everyone is super logical about things all the time, especially in forum mafia.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

9 minutes ago, Makaze said:

How is this a response to Baldrick's #2? He asked you how town!Marth benefited from fullclaiming. You talked about BBM in response. What?

Baldrick was floating how I as ITP may have shot Shinori because there was a chance he'd be townread later on. I was telling him there is no reason Shinori is likelier to become townread after his bad EOD1.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

It's Marth. He literally posted his role PM in the last game because he got pissed off that people were on his wagon. So he was probably sick of people wagoning him all the time and fullclaimed without considering everything. Not everyone is super logical about things all the time, especially in forum mafia.

Or he's ITP and as ITP he was not super logical about how this would look.

Why is this town!illogical and not ITP!illogical?