Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

1- I was wrong. Karajan is good at combat. Remember when I said I played chapter 5's hardest iteration so I could get a tome for Karajan? It's a 3-range, brave nosferatu. He also got a three-times brave tome, for good measure. So now Karajan's good. Disregard that Accorte can use it too, it's better on Karajan.

Is it 3 range locked? It'd be stupid good if it's 1-3.

And of course, What's better than two attacks at once?

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Conclusion: When this game comes out, use Karajan. All of you. Even the ones that won't play the game. Mod Karajan into your game of choice and use him.

So, lesson is mod a party involving you, Derrick and Karajan, with the latter two having capped move.

[ping]

24 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

2- He got another move point. Another one. On a 3% growth. He's one point away from capping move.

Conclusion: When this game comes out, use Karajan. All of you. Even the ones that won't play the game. Mod Karajan into your game of choice and use him.

The clapping physically hurts me, though...

[null]

 

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

Is it 3 range locked? It'd be stupid good if it's 1-3.

2-3, unfortunately, but it's still pretty great.

Quote

And of course, What's better than two attacks at once?

Four. That can happen now that Karajan has learned Multichance.

Karajan best boy.

Quote

So, lesson is mod a party involving you, Derrick and Karajan, with the latter two having capped move.

Perfect. I love it. Make it happen IntSys.

46 minutes ago, ping said:

The clapping physically hurts me, though...

If only we could get Karajan to conduct Karajan's theme.

[Punished Dayni]

Finally learned where this song came from I've heard multiple times while never knowing what it was.

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

2-3, unfortunately, but it's still pretty great.

Had to be nerfed somehow, but that's still 2 range on EP when you can pull it off and you can safely heal on PP with it off more enemies.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Dayni said:

Bro.

The most recent example of I've seen of the "Bro" archetype ended in a rather unorthodox way.

That being, during their last not-pre-final battle bonding event, the bro character said he wanted to stop being the "brother" to the main character. They always regarded each other as pseudo-siblings growing up. At the present point in their lives however, the pressure of being so closely bound is too much for the Bro to bear. He still wants to be best friends with the MC, but without the expectations being family brings with it. An unexpected conclusion.

However, the idea of putting distance between the MC and the Bro simply doesn't work out narratively after this point. The MC loses all vision in his right eye, and his left eye is starting to go hazy as well (he already lost his sense of taste too, he later wakes up one time with memory dementia). It's a side effect of his specialness, and the MC resolves to use that power to end evil. This being the case, he can't let the other heroes know about his decline because they'll be very worried and demand the MC stop using his powers. So, when the Bro discovers this sad truth by accident, he has to act as a confidential confidant, and goes a step further, vowing to be the MC's eyes. There is one scene, purely in text, where the Bro has to quietly warn the MC about stepping into lava (or a very very toxic poison swamp, I forget which) en route to one of the final confrontations. They might not be "brothers" anymore (provided you saw the above optional event), but the MC is more dependent on his Bro than ever before. It's a better spot of writing than I was expecting in this so very generic story game.

I never saw the Bro's ending with the MC, I should fix that via cheats.

---

I think I have some semi-academic/literary curiosity in the "Bro" archetype.

Let me count the number of what I'd consider definite instances in video games where I've seen the trope. Specifically, Bros of the main character.:

1. Kain (Final Fantasy IV)
2. Wakka (Final Fantasy X)
3. Kiefer (Dragon Quest VII)
4. Erik (Dragon Quest XI)
5. Beat (The World Ends With You)
6. Fret (NEO: The World End With You)
7. Ancel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)
8. Raz (Valkyria Chronicles 4)
9. Guy (Tales of Abyss)
10. Garet (Golden Sun)
11. Tyrel (Golden Sun: Dark Dawn)
12. Bart (Xenogears)
13. Reyn (Xenoblade Chronicles 1)
14. Atsuro (Devil Survivor)
15. Daichi (Devil Survivor 2)
16. Touma (Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE)
17. Ranulf (with Ike, not Skrimir, for whom a bromance might also be argued) (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
18. Browood & Brocter (Fire Emblem Blazing Blade)
19. Brounan & Brolmes (BroRing Saga)
20. Brolmes & Brogen (BroRing Saga)
21. Leon (Luminous Arc 1)
22. Rasche (Luminous Arc 2)
23. Glen (Luminous Arc 3)
24. Rosch (Radiant Historia)
25. Joey (Suikoden 2)
26. Knuckles (Yes I know Sonic the Hedgehog echidna ain't "anime", but he is totally a Bro.)

Okay, not as many as I actually thought there were.😅

To count a few bona fide non-MC bromances. (MC-related Bros are the "problem"/primary focus to me. They are what can come off as problematically cliched and uncreative.)

1. Shinon & Gatrie ((Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
2. The Fire Emblem Bad For The Colorblind Knights Archetype (FEs 1 & 3, 4 (+Arden), 6, 7, 8, maybe 9-10 (feels distinctly more like rivals), TRS and BS)
3. Sanger & Elzam & Gilliam & Kai- the Brogressors (Super Robot Wars)
4. Jin & Malos (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) (A villain-villain bromance, unlike the rest here.)

Now, let me count some debatable "Bros" and bromances. Males and relationships who might belong in the category, but I am uncertain of, in part because I don't have a clear definition of the term. Some involving the main character, others not. "Anime" MC-related ones are bolded.

1. The Super Mario Bros.
   • Does being genetic brothers born & raised count as "Bros"? Or does being genetic siblings preclude the possibility of being Bros?
   • Being genetic siblings sure doesn't mean cozy relationships, so being Bros, even if it is a possibility, is not guaranteed by being blood brothers.
   • This problem also applies to...
     1. Edgar & Sabin (Final Fantasy VI)
     2. Asbel & Hubert (Tales of Graces)
     3. Tatsuya & Katsuya (Persona 2: Eternal Punishment)
     • ...And others that I am probably forgetting right now.
2. Zhang Bro, Guan Bro, and Liu Bro (Dynasty Warriors)
   • These are technically historical people, who oath to be brothers is an invention of a 1300s Chinese novel. But they're still in a video game with some creative license taken to their characterization.
3. Sun Bro & Zhou Bro (Dynasty Warriors)
   • Their bromance seems to have been historically true. Unlike the Peach Garden Oath.
   • There is another complication here, Sun Ce was the liege of Zhou Yu. Can a lord and his retainer be Bros?
     • This problem also applies to Nobunaga and Mitsuhide (Samurai Warriors) I would say. Especially their SW5 incarnation, where Nobunaga begins not as Sith Lord as he always is in SW.
     • Yes, I know I absolutely counted Guy before, but serving House Fon Fabre was a sleeper cell ruse that Guy intended originally to end in murder. The servitude wasn't authentic.
4. Neku & Joshua (The World Ends With You)
   • My issue is antagonism. Joshua is very intrigued by Neku, but callously treating Neku as though something of a plaything gets in the way. 
5. Barret (Final Fantasy VII)
   • He can replace Aerith/Tifa in some of the Golden Saucer "dating" scenes. Does that make him Cloud's Bro?
6. Zell (Final Fantasy VIII)
   • He has the jock quality commonly associated with Bros. Yet, Squall is so dang cold on the outside, so I'll lean towards no.
7. Genis (Tales of Symphonia)
   • Can a nerdy shota be a Bro? As I said right above, Bros tend to be brawn over brains, and older and physically bigger than the MC.
8. Zelos (Tales of Symphonia)
   • I remember he uses the word "Bud" to describe Lloyd in Dawn of the New World. That sounds pretty bro-rific.
   • The problem, is that I never saw their ToS1 "Lloyd's closest friend" scenes. Because the game makes it nearly impossible to unintentionally get those scenes with anyone except Collette when playing normally.
9. Sorey & Mikleo (Tales of Zestiria)
   • Never played it, I'm merely remembering what little I've heard of this game's characters.
10. Serph & Heat (Digital Devil Saga)
    • They're definitely in a love triangle with Sera. And they are close friends too. But, are they Bros?
11. The MC & the Anguished One (Devil Survivor 2)
    • The AO is profoundly fascinated by the silent MC for some reason. But does the Anguished One understand the concept of bromance? 
    • I would imagine that more than a few fans would gay 'em together. *Takes longer than I expected to find fanart proving so*
12. The MC & Yamato (Devil Survivor 2)
    • Yamato is profoundly fascinated by the silent MC for some reason. But does Yamato understand the concept of bromance? 
    • I would imagine that more than a few fans would gay 'em together. *Finds fanart proving so in the first 14 images of a search. And maybe a threesome with the AO as the 43rd image.*
13. Keita & Jungo (Devil Survivor 2)
    • Maybe I'm reading into things but I speculate that these two got paired together to provide an Osaka-Nagoya male-male friendship that parallels the Osaka-Nagoya female-female bond of the same cross-metropolis kind. 
    • Is it a bromance though? Or just a normal friendship?
    • Keita being a "friends for losers, dammit!" punk makes it more difficult to say. But, Record Breaker's bonus story does strengthen their rather weak main story bond.
14. Tatsuya & Eikichi (Persona 2: Innocent Sin)
    • They start more like rivals, and do later become great friends. The question- is the strong young adult male-male friendship a case of Bros? Not all of them are.
    • Tatsuya's other male companion... definitely something other than Bros!
15. Persona 3 Character?
16. Persona 4 Character?
17. Persona 5 Character?
    • I get the secondhand impression every modern Persona game has a Bro for the MC. IDK if it's true.
18. Zaid & Shirutin/Whatevs His Name (Vestaria Saga I)
    • Thanks for pointing this out Ruben. Even if the snipped you've shared make it seem closetedly closer than Bros.
19. Wolf & Hardin ((Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem)
    • Does becoming suicidal after your male liege dies count as bromantic?
20. Sigurd & Quan (Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War)
    • They are brother-in-laws. But they were good friends before the marriage so we're told. And Quan doom North Thracia by going to help his in-law.
    • I'm inclined to say Bros indeed, yet we don't get enough one-on-one conversations being pre-Supports for me to seal the case shut on this potential bromance.
    • Eldigan with both of these two has the conversation problem, but worse.
21. Ike & Boyd (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn) 
    • Feels like there should be one here ...except Ike doesn't get a Boyd support in PoR. So it comes off as underbaked.
    • Ike does get an Oscar support of all things though, the wrong green-haired brother, I don't get it. Other than that IS must've known EarthxEarth was broken and wanted to throw the earliest possible option to Ike. Doesn't come off as a bromance I would say.
22. Ike & Soren (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
    • To declare bromance on this pairing is to find a very angry crowd thrusting shivs into me in my bathtub as I pray for heaven's embrace three days later. The police will discover a bloodbath. I cannot risk antagonizing the IkexSoren shippers!
    • The IkexRanulf people I assume are more reasonable and peaceful folk. I hope I did not assume incorrectly.
23. Ike & Reyson (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
    • They sure are good friends. With nobody ever thinking kinky stuff like with Soren and Ranulf. But Bros?
24. Tibarn & Janaff & Ulki (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
    • On the topic of Tellius, these three are almost always together, trust each other, and Ulki and Janaff know how to each on each other's nerves. Are they merely implicit brothers by nurture, or actually Bros?
25. Raven & Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
    • Another gay overtones situation!
26. Chrom & Vaike (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
    • Stoner Axeman sure comes off as Bro material, but I don't remember their conversations.
27. Haken & Reiji (SRWOGEF)
    • They do one have good and serious man-man to moment in the first Endless Frontier. The question- does that heart-to-heart count as a bromance? And do they continue being Bros after it?
28. Junior & Gaigun (Xenosaga)
    • Is there a playable-NPC bromance here? I've only played Episode I, and I need to fix that!
    • It's complicated by not being human methinks. And their minds are interconnected.
29. Every Western Action-Flick-Inspired 16-bit Beat 'Em Up Duo That Consists Of Two Young Adult Males + Ryu & Ken from Street Fighter
    • Never played any of this stuff.
30. Phoenix Wright and Miles Edgeworth
    • Never played Ace Attorney either, but I know there I know some go as far as shipping them together. That must mean something.

 

...My brain is tired from thinking up all of that. Why did I do that to myself?😔 I needed to stop myself sooner.

 

3 hours ago, ping said:

(and honestly, silly naming schemes are great fun. I love that Dragonball has a family consisting of Dr. Briefs, Panty, Bloomer/Buruma/Bulma, and Bra)

You're reminding me that the mediocre DS JRPG Magical Starsign has a kingdom of mole people, wherein everyone from the king to the generic NPCs, is named after some kind of cheese. "Minister Munster" is the only one I remember though. Other games should take it that far.

Which then made me recall that every location and important person in Eternal Sonata has a music-themed name. Final dungeon is Double-Reed Towers IIRC.

 

8 hours ago, Shrimpolaris said:

what's wrong with a character design out of Hentai anyway

Some are peak

Alot of artists start as (and/or still are) hentai artists

I know I'm late to this, but hentai is just another genre. There are good artists therein, and there are bad ones who are lazy and cut corners b/c they think sex alone will sell enough. The latter are probably too visible in the hentai market, I haven't checked.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Lightcosmo]

13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Sorey & Mikleo (Tales of Zestiria)

• Never played it, I'm merely remembering what little I've heard of this game's characters.

I'd say no one this one, they hardly interact, honestly, and when they do, i get the impression its as allies mostly.

[Venger_06]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I know I'm late to this, but hentai is just another genre. There are good artists therein, and there are bad ones who are lazy and cut corners b/c they think sex alone will sell enough. The latter are probably too visible in the hentai market, I haven't checked.

Proof

[Armagon]

7 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I could also have just said "it wasnt worth my time" and turned away.

But you didn't, because based on the information you had at hand, you ended up going "hey, this seems like something i might enjoy". And that's what i'm saying.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I get the secondhand impression every modern Persona game has a Bro for the MC. IDK if it's true.

Joker has Ryuji but i'm not sure about the rest.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

That being, during their last not-pre-final battle bonding event, the bro character said he wanted to stop being the "brother" to the main character. They always regarded each other as pseudo-siblings growing up. At the present point in their lives however, the pressure of being so closely bound is too much for the Bro to bear. He still wants to be best friends with the MC, but without the expectations being family brings with it. An unexpected conclusion.

It really sounds like they are setting things up for a romantic connection...

 

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Knuckles (Yes I know Sonic the Hedgehog echidna ain't "anime", but he is totally a Bro.)
   

I could see people calling the animated Sonic Boom series anime-like...

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Persona 3 Character?
• Persona 4 Character?
• Persona 5 Character?

I can fill in the names for these ones at least

• Persona 3: MC & Junpei Iori: The most debatable of the three, but still bro-y enough that I would probably count them.
• Persona 4: MC & Yosuke Hanamura: Brosuke shouldn't be a maybe category on this one, he is bro to the core. I could also see an argument for Kanji Tatsumi and MC as well, but it is rather complicated by how badly Atlas handled their attempt to make him being gay "more subtle" for western audiences...
• Persona 5: MC & Ryuji Sakamoto: Defiinitely bro enough for me to count them

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Never played Ace Attorney either, but I know there I know some go as far as shipping them together. That must mean something.

The adversarial nature of their relationship is far more defining than bro-ness, although it is rather complicated, as despite their adversarial roles they are friends, and they trust eachother to go all out in a trial to find the truth, together. It is a field ripe for shipping, but it feels a little different from bro-hood.

 

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ike & Soren (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)

• To declare bromance on this pairing is to find a very angry crowd thrusting shivs into me in my bathtub as I pray for heaven's embrace three days later. The police will discover a bloodbath. I cannot risk antagonizing the IkexSoren shippers!

Naw you are fine, bromance blossoming into something more is ripe for shipping, especially when Japanese developers always feel the need to censor what little LGBT content they have for western releases...

 

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• • Sigurd & Quan (Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War)

It really should be Sigurd, Eldigan, and Quan

 

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

But you didn't, because based on the information you had at hand, you ended up going "hey, this seems like something i might enjoy". And that's what i'm saying

I did also hear the gameplay had flaws that could have hampered enjoyment. But I didnt let that stop me from giving it a shot. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, was a busy time in Windhelm. I was able to do most of the stuff there. Unfortunately, two of the single-time radiant quest givers were apparently flagged to choose dungeons already chosen in previous radiants, so... I have to wait until the dungeons reset so I can get the remaining quest-giving prompts. Bummer. Well, this won't be the last time I'll be in Windhelm, so... I can wait as I do other stuff.

Also... ahaha, so when doing "Blood on the Ice" I was at the final stage of ambushing the killer before he does his next strike. Usually you're asked to be in the location at night, when no one should be around... except the event ended up triggering a couple in-game hours earlier... with everyone still present. I still stopped him from making his kill, but still... It made it hilarious since it meant the killer was sneaking to his unsuspecting victim... with everyone watching. Watching and not doing anything. Basically same energy as if during Genealogy Chapter 3 you put your units around where Manfroy warps in to kidnap Dierdre. lol Oh Skyrim...

Well, will now do the stuff around Eastmarch, for the most part, before then heading to Kynesgrove. Though that's for next time.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I'd say no one this one, they hardly interact, honestly, and when they do, i get the impression its as allies mostly.

Thanks for the clarification!😅

 

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It really sounds like they are setting things up for a romantic connection...

Nope! (I would've considered it if were a possibility though.)

He ain't the unusually rare BL-esque ending option. That'd be this.:

Spoiler

I've timestamped it to the closing moment.

If I didn't know this was the case going into the game, I wouldn't have ever expected it. And the bonding events sure kept them away from male-male romance by writing the gay option as very serious, sober, and somber. Despite a love for flowers, he's no stereotypical flirty effeminate type. And then there's the fact Dino greatly distrusts Levi when he first arrives, so that icy wall has to be torn down first, some players probably wouldn't even try after that first impression. While this means there is no romance, it has the unintended effect IMO of assuring Dino isn't just a token cliched gay character who will be love gushy about the cuuuuuuute! MC, since the game hardly concerned itself with Dino's attractions. (As an aside, great idea to make Eruru -the nominal female lead character- as interpretable as "like a sister" to Levi, since it tones down -however little given plentiful (mostly optional) anime straight male perversion fluff- how much mandatory straightness you have to read into him.)

Dino does say his favorite metal is silver b/c it can ward off evil, and that just so happens to be the super rare 7th magical element Levi becomes aligned with when he unlocks his powers. They've got some chemistry together and it's Ag 47.😄

 

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The adversarial nature of their relationship is far more defining than bro-ness, although it is rather complicated, as despite their adversarial roles they are friends, and they trust eachother to go all out in a trial to find the truth, together. It is a field ripe for shipping, but it feels a little different from bro-hood.

Thank you!

I've glimpsed and spoiled myself on enough Ace Attorney stuff that I'm not interested in playing the games. (Though I've been aware of the franchise since it's English debut.) However, I have read secondhand that their bond seems very well-written for video games in general. So, thank you for explaining it to me!😁

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It really should be Sigurd, Eldigan, and Quan

I squeezed in mention of Eldigan in a bulletpoint beneath it. Eldie runs into an even worse limited writing problem with Sigurd & Quan. We can say a bromance exists, but we haven't the ability to see a full manifestation of it. We need Memory Prisms in FE4 Remake so that we can have just one scene of them studying together, maybe taking a vow in a courtyard. That could very well be enough.

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Naw you are fine, bromance blossoming into something more is ripe for shipping, especially when Japanese developers always feel the need to censor what little LGBT content they have for western releases...

True, gays do have to read into films and other forms of entertainment things that straight writers didn't intend. I was recently reading an article on how a gay man in a conservative community growing up jacked off in secret to the original Top Gun movie. Two guys in a cockpit? The title itself is a blatant innuendo. And yet it's a double entendre that no evangelical preacher would ever realize, nor would they deem so manly and patriotically American a film to be subversive. It was the man's safe release value for his buried identity decades ago.

As for IkexSoren. I used to interpret it as platonic. Searching myself here on SF, I found these from February and March of 2017, which about as far back as I go on this site.:

Spoiler

"I'd argue that we can have no idea whether Ike/Soren goes beyond platonic or not. Though I like to think it is platonic.

Soren is socially awkward. He is antisocial, but without having gained the skills to be social- Stefan is antisocial while having social skills from normal interactions with his fellow branded in their hidden village. It sounds like the old woman and then the old man who raised Soren didn't have him interact with anyone else. 

Add to this that Ike and Greil showed Soren the first act of kindness he ever knew, an act that saved him from dying of starvation. Combine this with his Branded status keeping him from getting close to anyone, which Ike shrugs off as nothing. Soren bawling in Ike's arms twice (the first time being the first time he reveals to Ike that he saved him) is thus explicable as someone who rarely expresses their emotions and doesn't know how to do so normally doing so in the arms of his savior. The emotional outburst is not necessarily romantic.

In RD, Soren has gained some social skills as Ike and Titania comment, and as is shown is the Silver Card convo with Aimee, but he is still not quite socially normal. Ike is still his only friend, and will never stop being his savior even if he gets other friends."

...

 

"Also, reading the comments there, I saw the direct translation of PoR's Ike-Soren A support, and I can see the clear difference at the very end. That, plus Soren's death quotes seem to offer decent evidence that he is potentially gay. However! I still assert we cannot truly say whether he is or not. (Not that it bothers me either way what he is.)

For one, Ike is still Soren's savior, and if every man who was ever extremely devoted to a male savior was called gay- then what is to be made of Christianity? Countless men have quaked to the depths of their souls with their love of Jesus. (No intentions of getting political here!)

Second, I offer a counterfactual to contemplate. If Soren had people he could open up to other than Ike, would he be so intensely attached to Ike? Could it partly be he is so friendless and inept at making friends, that he funnels all his yearnings for someone who he can talk to/ease his loneliness into Ike? If he had other people who could absorb some of those yearnings, would he be have a more normal friendship with Ike?

And what is the difference between a deep platonic friendship and a true marital love anyhow? If it is a desire for sexual relations- then how the heck can we know whether Soren wants that with Ike!?! That we can't know because IS doesn't give us such a vivid look into Soren's mind or have him expressly say "I wish I could wed Ike"."

Now, it is worth noting that, my interpretation of SorenxIke most definitely was influenced by what I thought of myself at the time I wrote this. I never didn't like Soren growing up, his harsh language didn't never phased me. Since, being a young, intelligent, autistic introvert, I wasn't socially conscious. He and were much alike.

I also at the time of writing that, or at least in the year that following judging from my FFtF posts at the time (oh what a paper trail I leave!), I considered myself "sexually agnostic". Asserting a lack of conclusive evidence on Soren's sexuality would've been a way of stabilizing this self-belief, one that clearly hasn't held up.

Now that I feel considerably comfortably more gay -albeit I probably can't be 100% certain until I've actually dated someone, or kissed for the first time- I think I need to seriously reassess my stance on IkexSoren. This five-years old view has some of the odor of "Aspies are confusing their platonic amicable desires for romantic-erotic ones that they don't might not have". And that is too condescending and hurtful for me now.

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I can fill in the names for these ones at least

Thank you!😃

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

• Persona 3: MC & Junpei Iori: The most debatable of the three, but still bro-y enough that I would probably count them.
• Persona 4: MC & Yosuke Hanamura: Brosuke shouldn't be a maybe category on this one, he is bro to the core. I could also see an argument for Kanji Tatsumi and MC as well, but it is rather complicated by how badly Atlas handled their attempt to make him being gay "more subtle" for western audiences...
• Persona 5: MC & Ryuji Sakamoto: Defiinitely bro enough for me to count them

I've heard plenty of this over the years, though I don't remember when I first learned of it. It's a weird little thing that has in part held me back from trying Persona 4. I don't remember how I felt years ago about this -it might been a naked effeminate guy in a bathhouse born of his insecure psyche was just plain weird- but I know why I wouldn't like it right now.

*Sigh* How could Atlus do that? Jun was beautifully written, in 1999! Appearance might be too feminine, but otherwise everything was near-perfectly handled about him. All I could really ask for is more interactions, since the game doesn't give them enough time together. Jun would tastefully hold up just fine or close to it if brought out as is to a modern audience, even though the Western world has gotten much better since 1999! The guillotine might be hanging over federal recognition of gay marriage in the US right now, but that we have it at all right now would've been almost inconceivable when Jun was created.

...Now if you excuse me, I have to spread a rumor that a certain game is getting a: 4k, 60 fps, Steam (no Denuvo)-Switch-PS4/5, full voice-acting, 100 new additional scenes, gameplay modernized, talkative/silent MC toggle, bundled with the similarly renovated sequel, remake.😛

 

4 hours ago, Newtype06 said:

Proof

I'll agree with this image.👍

Edited June 6, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Punished Dayni]

Spoiler

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Kain (Final Fantasy IV)

Kain doesn't act like it outwardly (we get a moment where we know him and Cecil would drink out after a campaign, but when the game starts it's Cecil doubting his whole mission) and from there of course we have Kain getting possessed and being Mr. Steal Yo Girl for a long part of the game, agonising over that to the point he wanders off for over a decade afterwards until FFIVTAY happens.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wakka (Final Fantasy X)

Wakka's not as bro-y past the surface, with his luddite stance stemming from his brother's death and his anger there being one arc I do remember from the game.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Beat (The World Ends With You)

I mean, the two are pretty brolike in TWEWY.

He'd want to be, considering his big emotional connection is Big Bro to his sister.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Fret (NEO: The World End With You)

Bro (though less dudebro in his intonations), don't need to elaborate imo.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Garet (Golden Sun)
• Tyrel (Golden Sun: Dark Dawn)

Garet pretty much is, as well as becoming Issac's Bro-in-law.

I don't remember Tyrel at all, which should say something.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Browood & Brocter (Fire Emblem Blazing Blade)

Elibro and Hecbro.

Probably work for this.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Neku & Joshua (The World Ends With You)

• My issue is antagonism. Joshua is very intrigued by Neku, but callously treating Neku as though something of a plaything gets in the way. 

This does not stop the shippers. But beyond that, by the end of NEO Joshua clearly considers him some sort of near-equal, with him offering the Composer position to Neku with no scheme behind it (which Neku rejects because he's been dead 3 years, stop.)

(I'm stopped because Neshiki)

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Barret (Final Fantasy VII)

• He can replace Aerith/Tifa in some of the Golden Saucer "dating" scenes. Does that make him Cloud's Bro?

Barrett misses out on the late game interactions, with the stuff he does get beyond disk 1 having little to nothing to do with Cloud.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wolf & Hardin ((Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem)

• Does becoming suicidal after your male liege dies count as bromantic?

You could say all the Wolfguard feels this to some degree, but Wolf is by far the most affected by events. Could be bromantic in a Greek Tragedian sense.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ranulf (with Ike, not Skrimir, for whom a bromance might also be argued) (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Ike & Boyd (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn) 
  • Feels like there should be one here ...except Ike doesn't get a Boyd support in PoR. So it comes off as underbaked.
  • Ike does get an Oscar support of all things though, the wrong green-haired brother, I don't get it. Other than that IS must've known EarthxEarth was broken and wanted to throw the earliest possible option to Ike. Doesn't come off as a bromance I would say.
• Ike & Soren (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
  • To declare bromance on this pairing is to find a very angry crowd thrusting shivs into me in my bathtub as I pray for heaven's embrace three days later. The police will discover a bloodbath. I cannot risk antagonizing the IkexSoren shippers!
  • The IkexRanulf people I assume are more reasonable and peaceful folk. I hope I did not assume incorrectly.
• Ike & Reyson (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
  • They sure are good friends. With nobody ever thinking kinky stuff like with Soren and Ranulf. But Bros?

And people argue Ike has to be het.

They treat Boyd as someone who has a rivalry with Ike in PoR, but he seems to be less determined about it in RD. Oscar seems kind of wowed by Ike as well later on in the support chain, but he's kinda like Wolf on that front in he says he'd follow Ike to the end.

Ranulf can also follow Ike after RD, though it doesn't say he explicitly does so it only triggers with an A support with Ike.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Sigurd & Quan (Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War)

• They are brother-in-laws. But they were good friends before the marriage so we're told. And Quan doom North Thracia by going to help his in-law.
• I'm inclined to say Bros indeed, yet we don't get enough one-on-one conversations being pre-Supports for me to seal the case shut on this potential bromance.
• Eldigan with both of these two has the conversation problem, but worse.

Sigurd and Quan I'd agree on from what little we've gotten. Maybe Flames of Jugdral will give us a Prologue Prologue with all three together.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Tibarn & Janaff & Ulki (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)

• On the topic of Tellius, these three are almost always together, trust each other, and Ulki and Janaff know how to each on each other's nerves. Are they merely implicit brothers by nurture, or actually Bros?

Ulki and Janaff I get, but they feel like subordinates to Tibarn and they get that to the point they get freely reassigned to Reyson in RD.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Raven & Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)

• Another gay overtones situation!

People really want these two together and running an orphanage where Lucius dies for some reason.

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chrom & Vaike (Fire Emblem: Awakening)

• Stoner Axeman sure comes off as Bro material, but I don't remember their conversations.

Bros to the end.

I went through the bros I could comment on.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The most recent example of I've seen of the "Bro" archetype ended in a rather unorthodox way.

That being, during their last not-pre-final battle bonding event, the bro character said he wanted to stop being the "brother" to the main character. They always regarded each other as pseudo-siblings growing up. At the present point in their lives however, the pressure of being so closely bound is too much for the Bro to bear. He still wants to be best friends with the MC, but without the expectations being family brings with it. An unexpected conclusion.

However, the idea of putting distance between the MC and the Bro simply doesn't work out narratively after this point. The MC loses all vision in his right eye, and his left eye is starting to go hazy as well (he already lost his sense of taste too, he later wakes up one time with memory dementia). It's a side effect of his specialness, and the MC resolves to use that power to end evil. This being the case, he can't let the other heroes know about his decline because they'll be very worried and demand the MC stop using his powers. So, when the Bro discovers this sad truth by accident, he has to act as a confidential confidant, and goes a step further, vowing to be the MC's eyes. There is one scene, purely in text, where the Bro has to quietly warn the MC about stepping into lava (or a very very toxic poison swamp, I forget which) en route to one of the final confrontations. They might not be "brothers" anymore (provided you saw the above optional event), but the MC is more dependent on his Bro than ever before. It's a better spot of writing than I was expecting in this so very generic story game.

I never saw the Bro's ending with the MC, I should fix that via cheats.

Well that's one way to express your frustration at the dynamic you have.

Then of course they proceed to make it so he has to be close. Imagine if someone else had taken that role if that scene occurred and he does if it doesn't?

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...My brain is tired from thinking up all of that. Why did I do that to myself?😔 I needed to stop myself sooner.

I apologise for setting you off on this trail.

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I know I'm late to this, but hentai is just another genre. There are good artists therein, and there are bad ones who are lazy and cut corners b/c they think sex alone will sell enough. The latter are probably too visible in the hentai market, I haven't checked.

If we call it explicitly (heh) another genre does that put other purveyors of explicit content as in their own genres?

5 hours ago, Newtype06 said:

Proof

Throwing hentai panels in now? Cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!

[ping]

20 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Wakka's not as bro-y past the surface, with his luddite stance stemming from his brother's death and his anger there being one arc I do remember from the game.

He and Tidus are the bro-est of bros, though. They're both jocks, the captain and the star player of the football blitzball team; Wakka puts Tidus in a headlock when he catches him nosing through Yuna's stuff; I believe they even do a chest-bump at some point. I'd even file Wakka under "himbo", although I do think he's one with a surprisingly satisfying character arc.

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To count a few bona fide non-MC bromances. (MC-related Bros are the "problem"/primary focus to me. They are what can come off as problematically cliched and uncreative.)

1. Shinon & Gatrie ((Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
2. The Fire Emblem Bad For The Colorblind Knights Archetype (FEs 1 & 3, 4 (+Arden), 6, 7, 8, maybe 9-10 (feels distinctly more like rivals), TRS and BS)
3. Sanger & Elzam & Gilliam & Kai- the Brogressors (Super Robot Wars)
4. Jin & Malos (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) (A villain-villain bromance, unlike the rest here.)

Would Valbar and Leon fit? With Valbar just seeing the "bro" part and Leon being sad that the "mance" part isn't going to happen?

Hmmm...

• Final Fantasy IX: Zidane and Blank. The latter isn't playable outside of some very short sequences, but when he's around, he and Zidane are ribbing each other pretty consistently while still obviously caring for one another.
• Final Fantasy VI: Sabin and Gau and Cyan. I haven't played this in a very long time and I'm not that familiar with the story anymore, but I remember these three broing it up quite a bit while they're traveling as a trio. Sabin in particular is a very bro bro with himboic tendencies.
• The Curse of Monkey Island: Guybrush and Murray. Bonus points for the bro being an evil, demonic skull without a body. The sense of betrayal when Guybrush refuses to pick him up near the end of the game is palatable.
• Civilization VI: Gilgabro. I mean, come on.
• Baldur's Gate II: CHARNAME and Jan Jansen. I think they make a fine partnership! Like Drizzt and Wulfgar! Elminster and Volo! Ha! They should go into the mobile vegetable-peddling business together!
• Mass Effect: Maleshep and Garrus. I don't really enjoy playing shooters, so this is mostly knowledge from following a LP years ago, but Garrus is quite the bro.
• MARDEK: Mardek and Deugan. A bit odd, in that the main character is much more bro-y, while Deugan is brainy, self-conscious, and a bit of an author avatar. Still, very bro relationship between the two.
• Discworld: Rincewind and Twoflower. They're an odd couple - a cowardly, failed wizzard [sic] and a supremely naive and (thanks to wonky currency exchange rates) rich tourist who thinks that Rincewind is the greatest wizard of all time.
• Discworld: Samuel Vimes and Willikins. They're technically lord and butler, and Willikins in particular keeps up etiquette very strictly, but they become bro-er and bro-er as the series progresses.
• LotR: Gimli and Legolas. Frodo and Sam. Meriadoc and Peregrin (to a lesser degree in the books, but still). Aragorn and Boromir. Faramir and Boromir (literally). Aragorn and Halbarad. Bilbo and Gandalf.

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, ping said:

He and Tidus are the bro-est of bros, though. They're both jocks, the captain and the star player of the football blitzball team; Wakka puts Tidus in a headlock when he catches him nosing through Yuna's stuff; I believe they even do a chest-bump at some point. I'd even file Wakka under "himbo", although I do think he's one with a surprisingly satisfying character arc.

When I said what I remember, I mean it. It's been super long since I played FFX on the PS2.

2 minutes ago, ping said:

Final Fantasy VI: Sabin and Gau and Cyan. I haven't played this in a very long time and I'm not that familiar with the story anymore, but I remember these three broing it up quite a bit while they're traveling as a trio. Sabin in particular is a very bro bro with himboic tendencies.

Sabin definitely does.

2 minutes ago, ping said:

LotR: Gimli and Legolas. Frodo and Sam. Meriadoc and Peregrin (to a lesser degree in the books, but still). Aragorn and Boromir. Faramir and Boromir (literally). Aragorn and Halbarad. Bilbo and Gandalf.

LotR theme plays with a singing group chanting "BRO" constantly

It would even be in Tolkien's vision if they translated Bro into Elvish.

[Lightcosmo]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Thanks for the clarification!😅

👍

[Armagon]

10 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I did also hear the gameplay had flaws that could have hampered enjoyment. But I didnt let that stop me from giving it a shot. 

Cosmo you're not getting my point. You took the information on hand, weighing the pros and cons, and thought it was worth checking out. We all do this. And sometimes, we decide against it. When i weigh the information on hand about Final Fantasy, i come to the conclusion that i'm not interested in it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Kain doesn't act like it outwardly (we get a moment where we know him and Cecil would drink out after a campaign, but when the game starts it's Cecil doubting his whole mission) and from there of course we have Kain getting possessed and being Mr. Steal Yo Girl for a long part of the game, agonising over that to the point he wanders off for over a decade afterwards until FFIVTAY happens.

True, but I dunno, it felt like Kain could be the oldest possible example on the list. Appropriate for a person named after the first brother?

You are right they can barely relax together however. Despite the 16-bit era being the age of "cheery JRPGs", IV doesn't make much time for merriment. Its plot has uplifting moments, but not lighthearted frivolities, it's more serious or brooding. Sure is a contrast from V, and even VI has more silly moments.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Then of course they proceed to make it so he has to be close. Imagine if someone else had taken that role if that scene occurred and he does if it doesn't?

Actually that's possible for reasons, but it'd take me replaying a portion of the game to do it. Thankfully not all of it b/c I have a save file timed fairly well. But it'd still require a bit of time.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Barrett misses out on the late game interactions, with the stuff he does get beyond disk 1 having little to nothing to do with Cloud.

Agreed. It's a short-lived bromance, if it's one at all.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Wakka's not as bro-y past the surface, with his luddite stance stemming from his brother's death and his anger there being one arc I do remember from the game.

3 hours ago, ping said:

He and Tidus are the bro-est of bros, though. They're both jocks, the captain and the star player of the football blitzball team; Wakka puts Tidus in a headlock when he catches him nosing through Yuna's stuff; I believe they even do a chest-bump at some point. I'd even file Wakka under "himbo", although I do think he's one with a surprisingly satisfying character arc.

The powerful suppose the first impressions from the earlygame linger more with me than any separation Wakka has from Tidus later. Which as first impressions can be a powerful thing, could make sense. Some people never do give characters a second chance because they flubbed it the first time.

If the white hot metal-melting flames of bromance cool down later, well, isn't that true of many a relationship? How much does it matter if a bromance declines later?

 

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

This does not stop the shippers.

Remember Another Day in TWEWY? If you head over to the boss rush, what was it that Joshua said? "Shut up dear, keep walking"? Somewhere in his dialogue during this scene I know he made a remark to which Shiki reacted with something like "I didn't know Pink (or whatever color Joshua named himself) and Blue go together like that!".

Joshua trolled out the gaybait.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

I don't remember Tyrel at all, which should say something.

Dark Dawn perfectly describes itself. A new dawn for Golden Sun, one which killed with its unadulterated mediocrity what had the potential to be an enduring 2nd party Nintendo JRPG franchise. Do I even want a resolution to the cliffhanger and many unanswered questions at this point? I'd rather have GSDD wiped from the entirety of existence methinks.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

They treat Boyd as someone who has a rivalry with Ike in PoR, but he seems to be less determined about it in RD.

I'd also say that because Boyd is Mist's only paired ending option how dare she friendzone Rolf! that I want to read possible bromance into IkexBoyd. They're going to be brother-in-laws potentially, so bromancing to expand on their pre-legal connection relationship seems feasible and entertaining. (MarthxMerric sure aren't bros, though SigurdxQuan almost certainly seem that way.)

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

You could say all the Wolfguard feels this to some degree, but Wolf is by far the most affected by events. Could be bromantic in a Greek Tragedian sense.

Which risks inappropriately using "bro" as label for strong male-male relationships from millennia ago. I'd have to consult with gender/social/cultural historians about what they'd think of such a word choice.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

I apologise for setting you off on this trail.

I blame myself. Don't worry. I had the capacity to stop myself at any point in this process, I just didn't. I should not pretend I'm so impaired as to excuse myself and avoid self-reprimand for this behavior.

It's not exactly fanfiction, yet this lengthy "literary-styled" analysis of video game characters felt similar, in the sense that writing it was sorta creative and amusing to myself in a way. However, fanfiction and critical examination of video game characters can also produce in me a "what am I do with my lazy, worthless life?" feeling, it's unproductive and not meaningful.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

If we call it explicitly (heh) another genre does that put other purveyors of explicit content as in their own genres?

I dunno! @Shrimpolaris is making me think that there should be at least two categories: nukige and not-nukige. But do we call that second category hentai, or is it eroge? Can hentai be an adjective attached to other words like: bishojo, otome, yaoi, yuri, bara, *insert lesbian equivalent of bara?*. Is ecchi a third, lighter than eroge/hentai category?

I'm not well versed in Japanese animation/comics pornography terminology.

 

3 hours ago, ping said:

Would Valbar and Leon fit? With Valbar just seeing the "bro" part and Leon being sad that the "mance" part isn't going to happen?

I could fit! I'm just not too familiar with SoV's cast.😄

3 hours ago, ping said:

Civilization VI: Gilgabro. I mean, come on.

Sure, I approve!

3 hours ago, ping said:

Final Fantasy VI: Sabin and Gau and Cyan. I haven't played this in a very long time and I'm not that familiar with the story anymore, but I remember these three broing it up quite a bit while they're traveling as a trio. Sabin in particular is a very bro bro with himboic tendencies.

This is an image of an earlier draft of the game's ensemble. You can tell it must be very old, because "Terra" is... let's go with "Terre" and pronounce it "Terry", she was a he. Locke's relationship with I Can't Believe It Isn't Squall was to be rivals, so we were told in an interview. The woman with a bandana on her head to the right of Strago was to be his geomancer wife.

I bring this up because of the other character here that doesn't belong, the woman with what looks like a thin headband/circlet on her to the right of Shadow. She, so I remember it was purported factually written, was to be a "big sister" type character. A big sister to who? The "awkward family" of Cyan, Sabin, and Gau. Which thusly denotes that there is supposed to be a familial bond between them. In which case, what does each person approximately mean if each is supposed to represent a typical family member? Gau is by far the youngest, so "child", Cyan is the oldest by far, so "adult", very reasonably "parent". Where does Sabin the man in the middle fit in? "Big brother" to Gau? I could buy that.

(No idea what that beaked creature to the right of mini-Gogo is. One ugly Chocobo? Also, in this early draft, Celes was going to have mental health issues IIRC because of the process which made her a Magitek knight.)

I sorta like the odd family concept. Cyan loses his real one three minutes after showing up. It an indirect form of unexpected therapy for him, maybe?

Edited June 6, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Shrimpica]

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

is making me think that there should be at least two categories: nukige and not-nukige. But do we call that second category hentai, or is it eroge? Can hentai be an adjective attached to other words like: bishojo, otome, yaoi, yuri, bara, *insert lesbian equivalent of bara?*. Is ecchi a third, lighter than eroge/hentai category?

eroge: Games that have h-scenes, however porn is not the main draw. Compare them with american series/movies that have sex scenes but aren't classified as porn

nukige: porn all time baby

ecchi: Suggestive

Edited June 6, 2022 by Shrimpolaris

[Acacia Sgt]

What an interesting topic to wake up to...

Sometimes there can be issue separating things. Just in general two non-related people can't have a close bond without people thinking it has to go beyond friendship...

Edited June 6, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Saint Rubenio]

Good news, everyone! Nothing to do with Karajan, for once. Turns out that this game continues the proud KagaSaga tradition of having a sniper lady that is the biggest badass around. Her name is Penneloupe and I'm already in love. VS2 continues to be better than VS1 in every conceivable aspect. Sorry, Hoelun. You simply didn't cut it.

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Dark Dawn perfectly describes itself. A new dawn for Golden Sun, one which killed with its unadulterated mediocrity what had the potential to be an enduring 2nd party Nintendo JRPG franchise. Do I even want a resolution to the cliffhanger and many unanswered questions at this point? I'd rather have GSDD wiped from the entirety of existence methinks.

I apolgise, I got the brother of Jenna wrong when talking about Garet. I didn't edit it because whenever Cloudflare shows up after a post I just assume I can't do a thing about it.

As for GS, a reboot would be understandable after how DD was going forward. Maybe it'd have to be a full reboot of the first two as well though, I could see just putting the original two forward in (Insert current year) to be difficult given the changes that have come to the genre and gaming since they came out.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Dark Dawn perfectly describes itself. A new dawn for Golden Sun, one which killed with its unadulterated mediocrity what had the potential to be an enduring 2nd party Nintendo JRPG franchise. Do I even want a resolution to the cliffhanger and many unanswered questions at this point? I'd rather have GSDD wiped from the entirety of existence methinks.

Oh he did (In other places too I'm pretty sure), that was just more fuel. Though that is AD!Josh.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The powerful suppose the first impressions from the earlygame linger more with me than any separation Wakka has from Tidus later. Which as first impressions can be a powerful thing, could make sense. Some people never do give characters a second chance because they flubbed it the first time.

If the white hot metal-melting flames of bromance cool down later, well, isn't that true of many a relationship? How much does it matter if a bromance declines later?

See, that's the issue with the character moments in that game slipping my mind, I can't say that that's what happened.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd also say that because Boyd is Mist's only paired ending option how dare she friendzone Rolf! that I want to read possible bromance into IkexBoyd. They're going to be brother-in-laws potentially, so bromancing to expand on their pre-legal connection relationship seems feasible and entertaining. (MarthxMerric sure aren't bros, though SigurdxQuan almost certainly seem that way.)

Marth and Merric should be bros.

That is all.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which risks inappropriately using "bro" as label for strong male-male relationships from millennia ago. I'd have to consult with gender/social/cultural historians about what they'd think of such a word choice.

I mean, Achilles and Patrocles were absolutely bros, regardless of if they were more.

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Her name is Penneloupe and I'm already in love. VS2 continues to be better than VS1 in every conceivable aspect. Sorry, Hoelun. You simply didn't cut it.

Once again Kaga brings a female sniper better than most SRPG archers.

[Acacia Sgt]

Ah, why can't I find this song (actually begins closer to the 38 minute mark)...

Somehow it wasn't placed in either list, by the uploader or Youtube's own. I know it's definitely a Getter Robo Armageddon(?) track, but lacking the name would mean trying to check the entire soundtrack one by one...

Edited June 6, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Lightcosmo]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Cosmo you're not getting my point. You took the information on hand, weighing the pros and cons, and thought it was worth checking out. We all do this. And sometimes, we decide against it. When i weigh the information on hand about Final Fantasy, i come to the conclusion that i'm not interested in it.

Yeah, and i agree. You dont want it to take over on the negative side was my point.