Etrian Odyssey 3 Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

You not read my reasonings for the Clarinets vote?

I'm not voting him for INACTIVITY.  Attacking me for not voting people based on RVS reasoning while defending people who voted during RVS for RVS reasoning is fucking weird.  That's literally what you just did.

Not actually here at the moment and still haven't read Bartozio/Clarinets and I probably won't be for a few hours as I'm hanging with my brother for a bit.

[Shinori]

48 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Fuck, I just reread my role PM and missed a part of my role. I'm ascetic so don't bother targeting me.

Also lol.

[SB.]

4 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

think what you will about it Kokichi but I don't like you being vague about your role, it gave me the impression that there might be a role in this game that can save you & after last game I'm a little less forgiving of role shenanigans. what is the scum intent behind my comment on you about your role. if you think it's because I'm scum mudslinging you that's fair I guess but that wasn't my intention. the way you're playing is vibing me as town (esp the vote on me) so I can forgive the role shit. 

There's no specific role that can save me or anything, I'm not that special! My life is mostly in my own hands, but there's an exception to the rule that isn't totally that uncommon so I'd prefer to not be staring at the graveyard qt at the beginning of Day 2 with 3 other townies without giving any notice. Wouldn't that be rude? I think so!

The part that bothered me wasn't your comment itself but the fact that you just left it alone which yeah made it sound pretty mudslingy. I'm glad that I didn't have to give you any hints for you to figure it out!

2 hours ago, Clarinets said:

I have a problem with Kokichi's roleplaying. It seems like it's partly an excuse to be more vague in their speaking. I remember a game I played with SB where they said nothing but "..." the whole time and they were Town, but in that game that felt more like SB didn't want to put effort into their posts while in this game they're intentionally making it harder to read them.

I don't think I'm vague... or am I???

Seriously though aside from townreads (that I don't feel the need to out) the only thing I've been vague about is my role. My actual content is pretty concise, so it hurts me inside that you think that I'm trying to mess with my dear townie friends!

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

SB, and anyone else, I require assistance in the Marth/Boron debacle. You find Marth townie, SB? And Shinori seems to think Boron is scum too. Looking for opinions here, especially from those who have played with them more than I have.

[SB.]

I still don't have strong suspicions. I think Clarinets looks slightly worse because I could totes see their vote on me as squirming under pressure but at the same time, it's kinda hard to blame them, y'know? This game is a pretty awkward one.

I do think their Via's post sounded less scared/overly cautious and like their super duper townie self. Maybe not with the super duper bit, but still.

##Unvote
##Vote: Omega

I think that spending the posts before his vote examining the Boron (Sunwoo) side of the coin is kinda weird, if Marth was going to be his vote in the end. Obviously town!Omega wouldn't know what his vote would be beforehand, but the lack of progression is kinda weird.

[SB.]

I think Marth and Boron are probably both town. I can forgive Marth's awkward entrance because his later posts feel less tense as time went on. I guess that I'm less certain on Boron but I feel like she would go about her suspicions differently as scum. 

[SB.]

I guess what I'm trying to say wrt Boron is that the way they're posting has these weird intricacies in them that I think they would struggle to fake as scum. I don't really know how else to describe it, I just don't think that she's lying.

[Athena_57]

I'm going to read the Clarinets post and everything after that now, but before I do, @Omega., you placed a vote on Marth, then left. Care to explain where that vote came from? His early stuff, his interactions with Boron, both, neither?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

7 minutes ago, Kokichi Oma said:

I guess what I'm trying to say wrt Boron is that the way they're posting has these weird intricacies in them that I think they would struggle to fake as scum. I don't really know how else to describe it, I just don't think that she's lying.

What intricacies? Also, is Boron male or female? I said male because that's what I saw in the postbit.

With Boron, I read back their posts and saw them getting frustrated with Marth, and starting to curse. I then thought of how he came in the thread without much regard to what was going on, and began to consider that they were just a frustrated without an agenda, doing their own thing. So I voted Marth, because this is the most interesting dichotomy I see and think it's TvS atm.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

That said, I've never played with scum!Boron before, so don't know if the frustration is in his toolset as scum or if that's something he regularly does as town, so figured I'd ask people who know him better. In a vacuum, that's USUALLY more from town than scum, but it's not the rarest thing from scum so yeah, trying to get some clarity there.

[Athena_57]

@Clarinets You said you didn't like the case on Marth, but didn't really say how you felt about the people pursuing him, most notably Boron, unless you consider him part of the "null on everyone else"-group. I'd like some more explanations on the Marth/Boron interaction. Until then, my vote stays on you.

@Shinori I'm curious whether your opinion on Clarinets changed after their post. I'm obviously happy they posted, but personally, I need a bit more. Same question for the other people on his wagon. (Or just people in general)

@Bartozio After rereading your Eury case, I like it less. I still want her opinions on stuff, not just questions, but this sentence is weird:

"I'm also somewhat suprised you're keeping your vote on Shinori when you seem to suspect Marth more."

Where did you get that from? I initially agreed with this, but then I reread Eury and I'm not sure why you think they suspect Marth more than Shinori?

@Omega. What makes you think Marth/Boron interaction is TvS? I don't necessarily disagree, nor do I agree. I don't really know what to make of it still, so I'm curious how you came to this conclusion.

 

[Athena_57]

@Prims You've been gone for a while. How do you feel about the way the wagon you started developed? What are your opinions on the other stuff?

[SB.]

Boron is a lady but I don't thinks she really cares about pronouns. If she did, she probably wouldn't lie in her profile (or maybe that's just practice for the mafia game, that would be pretty spooky!)

After thinking about it a little more a better way to describe it would be that Boron's suspicions feel properly filled out without the empty noise I would expect from scum. My grasp on Boron's meta is pretty loose though so this is more of a generalist read than a Boron-specific one. 

What got you thinking that it was TvS? Entertain me.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I would agree that Marty v Boron is town v town and at least not worth pursuing atm. Each of their logics under heat checks out and makes sense to me. I’m fine keeping my vote on Clarinets for now; their return post is ok, but it feels like it was designed to get votes off of them rather than to hunt for scum. Their reason for voting SB is not very strong and otherwise it seems Clarinets hasn’t tapped into the flow of the game. I’m interested to see if this continues.

Otherwise, I’m townreading everyone but Prims/Eury/Shinori to some degree, but they were all scum last game, and I’m like, no...

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Otherwise, I’m townreading everyone but Prims/Eury/Shinori to some degree, but they were all scum last game, and I’m like, no...

Expand on the scum reads here a bit?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Expand on the scum reads here a bit?

Less scum more null.

@Omega, what to you distinguishes a 1v1 as TvT, TvS, or SvS? How do you tell an interaction is TvS without having a good idea on which side is the S?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

30 minutes ago, Kokichi Oma said:

##Unvote
##Vote: Omega

I think that spending the posts before his vote examining the Boron (Sunwoo) side of the coin is kinda weird, if Marth was going to be his vote in the end. Obviously town!Omega wouldn't know what his vote would be beforehand, but the lack of progression is kinda weird.

I don't get this. If my posts were spent considering the possibility of Boron being town, wouldn't the natural progression be to vote Marth?

As for Marth vs. Boron being TvS, well, I'm speculating that because how the game has flowed thus far. The Weapons wagon I felt was just a wagon for being a wagon and I personally didn't get much out of it. Then, we had the Clarinets push which was fine, and is still developing, but I personally have nothing more to offer there because it was pushed for a lack of content and now Clarinets is producing (I admit I skimmed it and have to read it more in depth, though). Then, Boron came into the thread and picked at Marth, and Marth fired back a vote Boron's way. I found this last interaction the most interesting because I saw a lot of decent reasons on both sides (Marth had a weird entrance, Boron chose to talk about things others were not, etc.) to scumread the other. So, I figured it was the best chance to find scum, because I could see the reasons being presented way likelier to peg scum than anything we've seen elsewhere thus far. I mean, it COULD be town on town violence, but I still think it's the most interesting thing that's happened so far so I'm focusing on it. That, and gut.

I'm actually a bit surprised both you and Bart have called it TvT the way y'all have.

Also, Boron's a female, got it, I'll refer to her as such from here on out.

[Athena_57]

@WeaponsofMassConstruction

I think you notified the wrong Omega there buddy, you need to notify Omega. (With a dot)

[Sunwoo]

54 minutes ago, Shinori said:

You not read my reasonings for the Clarinets vote?

I'm not voting him for INACTIVITY.  Attacking me for not voting people based on RVS reasoning while defending people who voted during RVS for RVS reasoning is fucking weird.  That's literally what you just did.

Not actually here at the moment and still haven't read Bartozio/Clarinets and I probably won't be for a few hours as I'm hanging with my brother for a bit.

Your Clarinets vote, unless I missed something, was "gonna sheep Prims. Clarinets should pipe up." That sounds like either a pressure vote or inactivity vote.

Also, I have no idea what you're even trying to say.

I'm female but I don't care what people call me. I only pretend to be a guy to avoid people like Boney. Also, Omega, I imagine pretty much everyone gets legit frustrated as any alignment.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

34 minutes ago, Omega. said:

I don't get this. If my posts were spent considering the possibility of Boron being town, wouldn't the natural progression be to vote Marth?

As for Marth vs. Boron being TvS, well, I'm speculating that because how the game has flowed thus far. The Weapons wagon I felt was just a wagon for being a wagon and I personally didn't get much out of it. Then, we had the Clarinets push which was fine, and is still developing, but I personally have nothing more to offer there because it was pushed for a lack of content and now Clarinets is producing (I admit I skimmed it and have to read it more in depth, though). Then, Boron came into the thread and picked at Marth, and Marth fired back a vote Boron's way. I found this last interaction the most interesting because I saw a lot of decent reasons on both sides (Marth had a weird entrance, Boron chose to talk about things others were not, etc.) to scumread the other. So, I figured it was the best chance to find scum, because I could see the reasons being presented way likelier to peg scum than anything we've seen elsewhere thus far. I mean, it COULD be town on town violence, but I still think it's the most interesting thing that's happened so far so I'm focusing on it. That, and gut.

I'm actually a bit surprised both you and Bart have called it TvT the way y'all have.

Also, Boron's a female, got it, I'll refer to her as such from here on out.

It sounds like then the first real 1v1 of any game would be TvS to you. Obviously that's not the case so what's stands out about this particular interaction?

34 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction

I think you notified the wrong Omega there buddy, you need to notify Omega. (With a dot)

I choose to blame the new Serenes Forest Forums posting mechanisms.

[Shinori]

31 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Your Clarinets vote, unless I missed something, was "gonna sheep Prims. Clarinets should pipe up." That sounds like either a pressure vote or inactivity vote.

Also, I have no idea what you're even trying to say.

I'm female but I don't care what people call me. I only pretend to be a guy to avoid people like Boney. Also, Omega, I imagine pretty much everyone gets legit frustrated as any alignment.

Gonna guess you didn't read what Prims voted for then.  As I sheeped him means I sheeped SOMETHING.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Weapons, I thought both Marth and Boron had decent reasons to scumread the other and like I said, part of it is sense of smell, though that could easily be wrong. I remember in my last game saying Prims/Arcanite was TvS throughout much of it with much less effort to extrapolate on my part, so don't get what you're trying to dig at here, though I don't find you scummy for it.

SB, I'm all for keeping one's cards close to their chest, but I'm wondering if Shinori is among your town reads.

Also, that Omega guy is whack for signing up, taking my name, then logging out then literally never posting again.

[Sunwoo]

I mean, okay, Prims voted Clarinets because of only responding to RVS pressure and not being productive otherwise. It felt to me like you didn't have conviction behind your vote at the time compared to other stuff you'd said, and I'd like to hear what you think about Clarinets now once you actually read his latest post.

[Shinori]

I'm only here responding to small stuff.  I'm not making any big posts at the moment because I'm hanging out with my brother currently.  Bigger posts when he heads to bed most likely.

[Prims]

@Eurykins Weapons' early weirdness about the town alignment doesn't match up with any meta I'm aware of. Him doing it to drum up discussion is basically what I expected. As is I'm fine iwth him.

I'm OK with the Marth votes after Weapons pointed out how forced his question to Clarinets was. "Grace has used Mass Tailor and Mafia Lovers before!" is still kind of huh as an excuse because "townie that knows the scumteam" is just awful game design for obvious reasons. This was stated to not be a bastard game, anyway.

Boron seems like normal Boron to me here? Not reading her one way or the other yet. @Sunwoo what do you actually think about Clarinets' slot now that he's made a new post? is he scum or town or null or what?

Bartozio dismissing Marth and Boron as town in-fighting is odd because I'm not sure what either of them have done that's actually townie. His paragraph makes it seem more like he's neutral and not scumreading them more than anything else.

HOWEVER I agree with his case on Eury. Her approach to the Clarinets wagon is weird. In what way is what Clarinets did "excessive for RVS shenanigans"? I wasn't fond of Clarinets' lack of followup / anything useful later but the RVS posts themselves just seem like normal joking around to me. This is a rather forced reason to support a fairly simple wagon and I'd be down with an Eury push because of it.

Clarinets' new post is still not great because his two biggest callouts are a prod on me and suspecting SB for roleplaying which is like... I'm pretty sure SB is just trying to have fun y'know? What makes you conclude SB is trying to make his posts harder to read in particular?

@Omega. Boron tends to get frustrated regardless of alignment fwiw. Do you have any notable reads or suspicions outside of those two? Kind of concerned about your fixation on this because you're handling it by asking for input from other players rather than addressing Boron and Marth directly. Like you're trying to avoid getting your toes wet here. This seems off to me because if you're scum it's very possible getting them to talk more would make it harder to justify pushing them (if they're both town) or harder to justify not hard-bussing them (if one's your buddy). Also just weirded out as I feel you're more of a background presence this game so far compared to last.

##Unvote
##Vote: Omega.

Athena seems to like to prod people to post which is an easy way to look like you're doing more than you actually are. This might just be an antsy new person thing though so FWIW people will usually get around to posting in the thread when they get the time; if it's not urgent / something you specifically want them to respond to making prods like this is pretty pointless.

Again, I'm really not fond of people throwing around that Marth vs Boron is town vs town because I don't see what either of them has done that's actually townie. I don't have problems with either of their cases on each other either but that doesn't mean they're both town? I'd caution against writing them off this early. Omega, Eury and Clarinets bug me the most at this point but I wouldn't be shocked if Marth were scum. Need more from him that isn't about Boron.