British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Sunwoo]

i would lynch FFM just because of attitude problems tbh

Well, I wouldn't lynch someone because of attitude problems if I actually felt that they were town. But the way FFM uses AtE ("no matter what I'm doing I'm scummy I just can't win") and threatens to sub out if people keep voting him don't feel town. As BBM had mentioned, he might be taking Terrador's example in the previous game. It feels to me like he's throwing a tantrum to make people uncomfortable going after him. I still have my issues with his content, which I specified in earlier posts.

(Not to mention, getting angry and threatening to sub out because people find them scummy isn't an alignment tell. it's a player tell. Someone who generally overreacts or gets upset easily is more likely to make threats to sub out or ragequit as either alignment. A player who doesn't get so emotionally riled up won't be making such threats as either alignment. And after what happened in FFTA mafia, I can actually see FFM threatening to ragequit as either alignment.)

[BBM]

not really sure what this means but worth noting that in SF3 he asked for a sub and it seemed like it was because of the attention on him, because when he didn't get a sub right away he just kept posting until he got lynched. He was town there, but he also just asked for a sub rather than threatening to do it.

[CT075]

without a better choice (there are multiple imo) i'm in support of an FFM lynch just because I don't want to deal with his attitude problems potentially screwing me up later in the game

[Paperblade]

I haven't read the last 100 posts

[Paperblade]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Boron

we don't vote people for doing things that aren't protown just because "they should know better" as nebulously handed down by someone else, which was pretty much your entire Darros case

[Junk]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Boron

we don't vote people for doing things that aren't protown just because "they should know better" as nebulously handed down by someone else, which was pretty much your entire Darros case

what do you think about walreins vote?

[Prims]

bbm that wasn't even a reaction test, it was literally a dumb joke.

[Sunwoo]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Boron

we don't vote people for doing things that aren't protown just because "they should know better" as nebulously handed down by someone else, which was pretty much your entire Darros case

I didn't vote Darros just because "he should know better". I voted him because I thought his actions following the Cam unvote were scummy. Saying that my entire Darros case was "he should know better" is a massive misrepresentation of what my case on actually had been, AND takes the original statement out of context.

You're also severely lacking an opinion on pretty much everything else that happened, such as what happened with FFM, Cam vs Makaze, and BBM vs Prims. Also, a review of my ISO shows that my post on what Darros "should know better" had been made at a time when you WERE reading the thread and you'd even asked me about my stance regarding Darros and Makaze. This isn't new information. So why is it only NOW that you're suddenly all, "oh this is scummy"?

Voting based on old information that he had been present for, with absolutely no comment on anything new. Coupled with his passivity and lack of presence earlier, Paper feels scummy.

[Prims]

god i hate everything bbm has posted in reply to that daykill post. he can't seriously think i would have shot him off a minor read in the middle of day fucking 1 and if he did it makes a lot more sense for me to be scum using it as an excuse than town. it's more like he assumed i was trying to gambit and wanted to make sure he didn't look bad.

[Makaze]

Ugh, Makaze, your attitude is literally not helping. I understand you've been mostly on the defensive, but you're beating defeatist and this is bordering on AtE. If nothing you've done makes sense as scum, then tell us -- what is the town intent of your actions? I don't want to hear "I'm bad at the game", "my investment is low", or "I'm a liability to town". If your actions have no scum intent, then what is the town intent behind them?

Uh, welcome to mafia. People are going to challenge you as if they are town all the time, get used to it.

What I'll qualify as actions were my prods to Darros and Cam and vote on Cam. The vote on Darros was not a test, but a result of what followed.

The town intent behind my initial suspicion on Darros is pretty straightforward. I didn't see anything to gain by unvoting. Depending on his reaction, I would dismiss or confirm my suspicion. This was a pro-town test because we needed something to take us out of RVS and it did seem odd.

I backed down at his reaction without thinking. I fell for an AtE. In retrospect, this is another bad habit that happened in my first game. It also ties into the bad habit you mocked. I'll go into it in a sec.

With Cam... I don't have any excuses here. I believed he was voting Junko over something small with a false accusation thrown in. The voting over something small was true, but the false accusation was imaginary. The town intent here was in pressuring someone who was too hasty to get accurate information.

The bad habit is bad because it's something I have a history of letting change my reads. Just by having someone challenge me with good arguments, I tend to think of them as town. In my first game, it caused me to buy into Terrador's act. In this game, I reflexively backed off of Darros. It goes beyond treating them as town. I begin to doubt myself just by being challenged.

As for AtE,

makaze

Dude, I already told you. I have no reasons or expectations other than what I've already stated. I made all of two minimal moves which are of little consequence now. You are not going to get any more info than I have given. Read the above of this post. If you're still convinced I'm not town, there's nothing I can do but offer actual help to town.

Getting on that. Be aware my reads have changed as of rereading ISOs and making this post.

---

@Walrein: Your reason for voting Darros is very weak. You have not contributed anything and are simply letting people vote on your lynch target withour contributing. This is a scummy thing to do.

First of all, I'm assuming Darros is Poliwrath?

Secondly, I agree with the above poster in that while the unvote itself wasn't really all that suspect (though it was a bit premature), the fact that he left his vote on nobody makes it seem like he's trying to avoid pissing people off. In my experience, mafioso tend to try to avoid confrontation in an attempt to not get people mad enough to lynch them.

I also don't like how the only defense he's attempted is "it's RVS"

##Unvote

##Vote Poliwrath

Why did you choose not to vote for another user after unvoting?

What do you think of Darros now?

What are your reads on others now?

@Darros: Upon reading your ISO, I have to take back what I said earlier. Most all of your actions since I started defending my vote on you have been pro-town, notably seen here (calling out scummy lurking) and here (giving logical advice and counters). I have one question.

Why aren't you trusting your gut with FFM (that he's using his town meta) when you have other reads; why haven't you voted me despite your red flags? Is FFM's behavior just that scummy or what?

@Poly: Where are you? You have done nothing but make jokes so far this game. You said you would make that big post well over four hours ago. I am getting bad vibes from this.

@Paperblade: You... Have sheeped a vote on me, laid back for a while, and just now voted on Sangyul with practically no case. She had more reason to vote Darros than I did. This reads like switching targets to get Prims off your back. I know you saw his post because you read enough of Sangyul's to make this vote. You just shot way up in my reads.

@Cam: You have been putting a lot of pressure on me but your vote is still on Junko despite you dropping that case right after voting. You also jumped on everyone who agreed with your vote, which makes it read like prod voting. What are you trying to make happen?

@Pascal/FFM: Subbing out because you are being voted makes no sense. If you keep getting voted you will die and there will be nothing to sub into. What is the point?

@Kay & Psych: What are your scum reads?

##Unvote: Darros

##Vote: Paperblade

[Makaze]

Oops. Left a part unfinished.

"As for AtE," I don't have a defense except that I was losing confidence, which I have regained by taking a break. I'll be less self-conscious from here on. If I survive, anyway.

[Ampharos]

I'mma be level with you guys, I completely forgot this game existed because I have too many tabs open. And of course when I refresh the page, there's 6 more pages to read...

@Walrein: Your reason for voting Darros is very weak. You have not contributed anything and are simply letting people vote on your lynch target withour contributing. This is a scummy thing to do.

I'm aware that it wasn't the greatest reason in the world, but at the time we were still trying to break free from RVS, so ANY strange/scummy play is a good reason to vote. Was I sheeping a bit? Yes, I was, but it generally takes more than one vote to apply pressure to someone. You build up a bit of a bandwagon on them, they might panic and let slip something they might not want to say under ordinary circumstances.

What do you think of Darros now?

What are your reads on others now?

As I said, I literally JUST now came back to this game, so I really don't have much to go off of. Reading this page alone gives me the following:

-Paperblade seems to be playing like he does when he's an uninterested townie - namely, barely paying attention and contributing a few two-line posts per day. Not great, but not scummy IMO.

-Makaze's self-deprecation is rubbing me the wrong way, because listing the flaws in my own playstyle is an excuse I've fallen back on as scum myself.

-Are daykills common here? Because if so I find BBM's paranoia about it to be odd.

-Lynching someone off attitude is a bad idea unless we literally have ZERO scumtells from ANYBODY. I'm all for positive attitude but let's off people because they're scum, not because they're grumpy.

It's almost 4 AM so I'm going to bed now, but tomorrow I'll go back and actually read through what I missed so that I can come up with more. ##Unvote, ##Vote Makaze for now due to reason listed above.

[Ampharos]

Also the fuck does AtE mean

[Prims]

I am down with wagonning Paper because if he's scum we lynch scum and if he's town he has to actually do something.

I still don't buy that town!BBM would have reacted like my jokevig was real, and if he did, I imagine he would've been a lot more irritated about it.

Psych needs to elaborate on what the difference between "I don't like what they're doing" and "I think they're scummy" is. His remark about Pascal was worded like he thought Pascal had questionable intent.

@Mod: BBM isn't on the playerlist (for once). Is this intentional?

[j00]

Ugh the amount of AtE in this game is annoying

Makaze: You've been defining stuff like scummy/town behavior rigidly and has been pointing out how your own actions are on the townie side, and spent most of your time defending yourself and asking why you would do this as scum. Your last post is okay, and contains more scum hunting than most of your other posts, but you've spent a long time defending your own points in a rather confusing way, and are now self-depreciating about your own cases and votes.

He do have a good point about Cam still keeping his vote on Junko while jumping on him. I don't think like how he prefers to lynch FFM just for AtE when there's a bunch of things happening in the game.

I'm sorta iffy on Makaze's interactions with Boron too, they question each other a lot but both come to the conclusion that they're somewhat suspicious but probably town. Boron's also too quick to put down votes on people who had blatantly bad posts, and it feels like she's going after too easy cases, like FFM and Paperblade, who both put badly reasoned votes on her.

Neither Paper nor Psych seem to care about the game, Psych not bothering to put a vote down is dumb and Paper voting something that happened on page 2 is lazy. I'm not convince they're scum from their content so far, not willing to wagon them before they say more stuff.

[j00]

I forgot Poly existed, jesus post something other than lol

[BBM]

I imagine I would have been a lot more irritated if I was actually scum, but okay. Not really sure why I assumed it was real looking back at it. Best explanation is probably that I was tired. My thoughts in that post are kind of all over the place because I thought I was going to die before I woke up and just wanted to get everything out.

If I was actually scum who thought you were gambitting, why would I react at all past the initial lmao? The best reaction for scum to dayvig shots is to completely ignore them and act as if nothing happened.

And btw you have shot people D1 for the funnies (Snooping Around) so yes I could believe that you would shoot someone D1 whom you thought was scum but didn't want to actually push the case for it.

[BBM]

Nor did I actually have a reason to say you were town for the dayvig shot if I were scum. Either the shot is real and then what I say doesn't really matter or it isn't real and going with you being town over going with you being scum to use it as an excuse.

[BBM]

Nor did I actually have a reason to say you were town for the dayvig shot if I were scum. Either the shot is real and then what I say doesn't really matter or it isn't real and going with you being town over going with you being scum to use it as an excuse doesn't make sense.

[j00]

BBM's "case" on Prims is bad and came after Prims said BBM was bad, feels retaliatory, and all his scumreads contain too much meta. His listpost is also mostly gut cases and not really helpful, also Prims has a point that responding like that to his standard joke gambit is unnecessary and just looks like a way to gain town cred.

STILL HAVEN'T READ SHINORI

[j00]

Okay the last posts from BBM looks like damage control, you'd actually be more likely to be genuinely annoyed as town, as scum you tend to become somewhat passive aggressive like now

[Sunwoo]

Boron's also too quick to put down votes on people who had blatantly bad posts, and it feels like she's going after too easy cases, like FFM and Paperblade, who both put badly reasoned votes on her.

If someone is doing something that I think is scummy, why should I not go after them? No matter how "blatantly bad" someone's post is or how "easy" a case may look, why should I give it pass just because it's "obvious"? Sometimes scum can be just that obvious, and sometimes a little hard pressure may get those "bad posters" going on the right track. Am I scummy because I'm going after what looks like "easy cases" to you?

[j00]

I'd be down with a BBM and Boron lynch, though the latter is definitely not happening today

Poly is bothering me with having posts occasionally but without any form of contribution whatsoever

[Sunwoo]

I'd be down with a BBM and Boron lynch, though the latter is definitely not happening today

Cool. You still haven't explained why my going after "easy cases" is scummy (and it comes off as you saying that going after things that are obviously bad is bad, because it's so obviously bad it's easy, which makes 0 sense), and your only other given point on me is iffy interactions with Makaze. I also don't recall actually concluding that Makaze's probably town. On the contrary, I thought he was last considered a scum read of mine.

[j00]

Boron: you're usually good at putting down cases, I feel like these are too easy, and you spend a lot of time explaining them it's very easy to see why those people are bad. Darros doing blatantly bad things in RVS and getting wagoned is so standard I wouldn't even think of it as an alignment tell anymore. FFM also tend to have shaky cases, but his scum hunting and comments read as town to me.

Basically, yeah, I don't like the fact that you go after the "easy cases", you've spent time on other people too and your content is reasonable and you make sense and all, but you only seem to consider the blatantly bad posts as scum.