AM/PM 2 Mafia - GAME OVER

[MancerNecro]

ISOed Blitz and basically, all I see are him prodding and prompting all of the other players in the thread. However, despite all of his prods and question asking, he doesn't form any reads on any of the night players and only ends up null reading practically everyone in this post.

I feel that this is a little hypocritical of him because in that same post I linked to, he stated:

okay, so, those are my reads so far on my insomniac buddies and as you guys can see, these actually provided nothing much more than a few nullreads.

-snip-

also, even if this game is an N0 start, this is all we are getting before the end of D1, so, this N0 is clearly different from normal N0s. Also, I have always tried to play and get an initial scumread before D1s in N0s if they existed

Those two statements being in the same post makes me go "what?".

Also, I want to know what Blitz thinks of Prims right now. He seems to have problems with Prims in this quote:

Prims, giving off the same aura as he did in Conspiracy mafia, not sure why.

-snip-

@BBM, I don't remember playing AMPM1, I might have been part of it, but, I don't remember. So, serious talk. Do you feel anything weird about Prims?

-snip-

@Prims, why do I feel that there is something wrong about you?

And then, in his only post in D1, he suddenly goes and votes Shinori out of nowhere and conveniently disappears with his vote parked on Shinori.

Also, he mentions:

I do not know if I will be sleeping through N1 or not and therefore require mod confirmation, but I do know this switch is temporary. and here I was thinking of being a lurkscum without having to worry about posting during daytime.But at leas on the bright side I get a vote and get to play with Gaius for the phase, lol. Just obtained Mod confirmation, I won't be able to post N1 and D2 since I should go back to being a night player in N2/D2 cycle

Which is "what?" to me as well because he mentions that he requires mod confirmation but goes 180 degrees to mention that he had already obtained said mod confirmation, in the same paragraph, even.

Also:

actually, I can agree with your points at Mancer

I know I am not Marth, but I do find hypocrisy suspicious in most cases and is more likely to come from scum

[responding to a quote from Prims] no, I think it is something else, like the same feeling I got when I felt you had some specific info, but you were playing dumb

Does this actually change your conclusions regarding Prims and I? You said hypocrisy is likely to come from scum and seem to think that I might be hypocritical so I want to know if you think that I am scum. Also, you made so many comments about Prims sounding weird but have never ever pursued or elaborated on that.

I think Blitz should be lynched D2, guys.

[MancerNecro]

ISOing players is hard work, will probably continue tomorrow night cause I need to rest for work tomorrow.

@Junko: I had no idea that mail was from you at all but meh... Does me yelling at town for flaking make that much of a difference to your reads though? I think that it is possible for a player to yell at other players for inactivity regardless of their alignments and scum might do that for town cred as well.

Requesting that players identify who they are in mails and/or announcements to lessen the confusion regarding reads and such urgh...

[Terrador]

Just got up, quick re: Via post before I start posting actual content: when I said that, what I meant was that there really is no incentive to post good content instead of content that sounds good instead of content that is good.

...except the easiest way to make content that sounds good when you have 0 reason to not hit scum is to try making good content. I don't think Levibee's worried about a scum NK on them. Things I realized literally this post. Alright, not gonna be too chuffed about Via's reads, then.

(and btw, there was already a Via-sounding role announcing, so I figured I'd mask behind that, but... what even is there gonna be re: good Town day roles in this game for me to crumb? Was not very well planned, part of the reason for the relatively immediate claim).

Expected content to come: re-reading and casing Makaze and Blitz, enormous waffly-looking explanation of why SB seriously confuses me (he's null atm--maybe typing it out will help me figure it out, maybe I'll catch a thing or two that helps solidify your reads, either way), then I'm gonna dig into Night folk a bit and see if I have a concrete scumread or two there. (That last part is probably gonna come in a few hours after a few more posts; first bits, relatively immediate).

[BBM]

Mancer I don't get your Junko case. You talk about how you were his only scumread, and then he dropped you, so it makes sense then for him to have no scumreads?

time to read Rapier and Gaius and Strawman.

[BBM]

I got, uh, basically nothing from reading Rapier. ;_;

Gaius has a lot of nullreads but ~new so idk. I think the points he has made have been decent, it's just that he doesn't actually have a lot of them? I'd like him to summarize his scumreads; I feel like he parked on Eury early on and then didn't talk about other people much.

Rereading Strawman I don't get where his Blitz vote in #173 came from. It looks kind of like a prodvote and it doesn't make much sense because in #124 he said "blitz seems fine" and then after that he was okay with lynching Blitz in #307. But there aren't any reasons given for the stance changes. I'd like him to clarify why he thinks Blitz is scum and why those reasons didn't apply in his first post about Blitz.

I think Mancer is improving.

time to watch an episode of yugioh and then study

[Sunwoo]

Now it's loudspeaker time!

Makaze here.

• I'm the Day Persuader+Announcer. Repping Elieson. Sorry, Elieson. One announcement per cycle.
• I'm not bullshitting you. (@Prims)
• The announcement casing Prims was me. Was a bad case when corrected n0. Didn't claim because still scumread Prims and it would just discredit me and clear him. Claiming now because Prims called it and ~cleared either way.
• Voted SB because giving up like that and voting at random is patently scummy. Was a stronger scumtell than Blitz's. Unvoted because Courier read town . Mixed signals.
• Didn't pick Shinori to persuade because I scumread him. Chose him because he hadn't posted and I wanted to make use of an inactive vote. Only scumread him after he posted.
• Had gut!town on Shinori after responses but on reread ignored my question for his non-OMGUS-y case on me. Doubting now. Why?
• Prims' post is good; less scummy.
• Agree with the Rapier case.
• I'm town.

Lynch: Rapier > Blitz > Prims > Shinori > Elieson

[MRDRHAWK]

*cracks knuckles defiantly and readies the laptop*

NOW IT'S POLTIME

Alright, so my immediate thoughts on the game upon first flip were, prior to the post directly above this one, that Makaze was scum. His content seems all over the place and he never seems to stick with casing one person for long, with the exception of Prims, who I'm not seeing as scummy upon reading his ISO. In fact, Makaze's ISO, to me, reads like a constant waffling until someone brings up Prims, in which case he gets ridiculously bloodthirsty for some odd reason. His Shinori "case" is also bad because that's what Shinori does a lot if he can't be assed to read back.

That said, his claim and summary of reads and what the fuck ever reads very much as townie. I'm conflicted as fuck right now, but why exactly do you scumread Rapier and Blitz, Makaze?

Terrador also feels like scum to me, considering he's made a grand total of two posts so far with no real content within. Probably a policy vig at best, and an outright lynch at worst.

Not particularly sold on the potential of scum!SB, but that's also non-indicative of his alignment since he's good as scum. Unsure where I stand on him, though his lack of concrete reads on any particular front feels kind of bad to me.

I brought up my disagreement on Makaze's earlier Prims read, and tbh I'm not particularly seeing it? Prims reads like regular Prims to me, so barring anything super scummy over the next night phase or so I'm not gonna magically scumread him.

I guess I'd be down for a Rapier lynch since his ISO feels kinda fluffy, but I can't vote to influence that. He does also note that Makaze's Shinori case is fairly weak, which I agree with, so there is that.

I can't make heads or tails of Elie's content post aside from his Eury read, which looks a lot worse upon her flip. That said, his not making content is for the exact same reason why I didn't (S I C K B O Y Z) so I'm not gonna penalize him too much for no content. Still okay with vigging him, though.

also, I legit forgot Strawman was playing in this game, and upon reading his content, I'm not liking a whole lot of it, especially post-Euryflip. Not sure what I don't like about it, aside from just generally not liking the direction it took. Would lynch if day, would vig also.

Lynch Priority: Terrador > Strawman > Rapier > Makaze = Elie?

Everyone else is null at worst.

[MRDRHAWK]

Also fuck this laptop.

I'm too lazy to read Blitz, someone summarize him for me so that I can figure out if I wanna lynch/vig him or not.

[MancerNecro]

Mancer I don't get your Junko case. You talk about how you were his only scumread, and then he dropped you, so it makes sense then for him to have no scumreads?

Actually, I wanna know why he dropped his scum read on me so easily.

[Terrador]

Got an anonymous message. Since I'm pretty sure I can't copy it, the tl;dr of the matter is:

-Says not to waste a cop on Prims, made some really odd word choice talking about Prims that made me not sure what else they were saying? Not sure whether they're saying Prims is scum or town, frankly

-Claims Marth is obvtown, they've scumbuddied with him tons

-Thinks Elie might be scum w/Eury flip, but inactivity isn't the tell

-Bugged by my word choice when I didn't want either wagon lynched, says my align should be obvious after content posts

-Gonna pressure Rapier and Straw

-Not sure on Makaze, some of the stuff he does doesn't make sense as scum, needs him to explain Prims => SB voteswitch.

---

Also, @Poly, you literal shit, don't try to pull anything about me "not having content" when I'm literally sixteen hours into the first phase I can actually post in, with half of that being sleep. Kindly blow that right out your ass, bro, I'm not stalling. Calling for a policy lynch on someone who hasn't posted--why is a policy lynch your highest priority right now? And how do you explain calling me a policy lynch for no content when you go a whole posting phase giving no content?

---

CONTENT

Makaze:

Yeah, the first case on me seems really, really suspect--frankly, stabbing at anyone who hasn't had the chance to post seems Maximum Scum, and "implying Eury is scum without reasoning", no, that's obviously not the case. I really don't see scum buddying each other publicly at all, nor does anyone else. Calling for policy lynches this early seems really suspect--for real, you think that's a good investment of town's lynch? And Prims being waffly? Pretty obviously not, imho.

He says he "ordered his lynch priorities by info he can get off them"--so he thought that 1) he could bait out an announcement for nothing but self-defense, which honestly doesn't seem very town to me, and 2) that my 150 words would be more valuable than being able to actually converse with someone? I dunno, this is just painfully inconsistent. I can sorta sheep Via's "scum one-liners" bit on him, but I wouldn't consider that as hard a scumtell as it seems to be implied around here?

And, after seeing Prims mention it... I wouldn't have caught this without it being pointed out, but yeah, being prompted to say that "we're shit at reading him" after an announcer, of all things, seems suspect.

He unvotes me after there's no support for my wagon, and then... votes Prims, and by all rights appears to be trying to push a lynch? After saying that he would like to see him switched to Day? And not really continuing to substantiate, or really case Prims at all? Then he just floats off of Prims, with really no reason given for it. I mean, yeah, his vote's still on there while he's pressuring Shinori, but that seems kind of suspect? If you're gonna vote a night player and not pressure them or build a case, what's the point? Vote being wasted.

And his claim that Shinori is OMGUS-ing him is straight-up wrong, which isn't quite align-indicative in vacuum. Pressuring someone for casing you is scummy, but pressuring someone for a trash case on you is something that town does literally 24/7.

The SB voteswitch looks pretty scummy to me, too. Makaze has Eury on his lynch priority, and she's just as viable a lynch target, and yet he votes SB without even saying whose case he's sheeping, let alone making a case himself?! And then he goes back to Prims? I mean, if he really had Prims as so firm a scumread (which evidently he does if he's casing him all day with one night of content and little/no capacity to respond), why not push for Prims to end of phase? I mean, you could consolidate to tiebreak at end of phase, but... I dunno, his case on Prims seems a lot more "let's lynch Prims" than "Prims is scum and this is why".

I do not like Makaze's play at all. I'm still confident in this scumread.

Blitz:

He opens super-duper meta, and I have no clue whom Coco is, so I'd love literally anybody to tell me. Names, man, how do they work. It's a wall of quotes and a whole lot of nothing--idk, going "hey I'm here, nitpick, gonna read later" doesn't seem align-indicative to me in general, but this post feels just a hair off? Nothing I'd string him up for though.

>"there is also another thing that bugs me and that is probably the fact that said Courier was also ITP hunting (based on Coco's responses) which is also bad unless said person has some form of external info given by mods"

>votes Shinori for being probable ITP

He literally walks facefirst into a scumtell he's trying to push on somebody. Feels like very clumsy scum.

His enormous read post is a whole bunch of waffly crap. Where are your reads, man? You refer to past games, you poke a bit, but you don't out-and-out say, and you speculate about ITP--again, something you explicitly say is scummy earlier. Super overreaction to the wasting of a courier early--N0 and D1 have historically been pretty damn bad around here, from what I've seen/heard, and only recently do we get on the ball inside 24 hours.

His literal only day post has nothing protown at all in it. Just an assload of speculation, and the only person he throws darts at, he does so for a reason he himself says is scummy, someone who hasn't posted and might well be ignoring the game? Then just leaves the Day?

There's absolutely no protown content or intent here in a whole ton of fluff. He is a waffly, forgettable player, and I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised about him being scum.

SB:

There's a lot of eyes on him, so I figure I'll take a look. At time of starting ISO, he feels null to me, but I'll take another look after some dissection.

His first couple of posts don't particularly amount to much, besides a hair of prodding on Strawman. Lack of scumreads in his announcement bothers me--I get it's hard to case there, and it was fairly early, but I feel like SB is chumpion enough to do work with that as town? But it was a forgettable announcement.

His first content post actually looks good. Prims' apparent switch of primary scumread does seem a little hairy, and worth looking at, but... lynch? The game theory behind this game hurts me (I dun understand), so I'm not gonna mark him down for looking at it differently. I also agree with failure to pressure my announcement 100%; either A) he genuinely trusts me, in which case duh, or B) don't pressure an announcer, let them dig themselves deeper before claiming.

Second content post... again, I also understand it. I feel like he's giving me a little too much credit? My scumplay isn't THAT deliberate.

Third content post is where I start getting paranoid... I mean, spending that much energy defending a townread that isn't at all likely to be lynched feels kinda buddying? I remember someone saying Eury is different from .hack and reading her town as that--it took a lot more digging than I'd like to admit to find that this came from an SB courier to BBM. Giving a courier with no scumreads and little firm townreading is also suspect.

Having nothing to do at deadline, and voting for a Eury lynch on pretty much nothing, then leaving it there when he really doesn't have a case on Eury is... a bit sketch? He's "less sure on Eury" ages ago, consolidates and sleeps, makes me paranoid. I really, really don't know.

Most of SB's content looks legitimately good and legitimately protown, but a handful of things--giving me too much credit to the point where I suspect some Pro Buddy To Town That's Prone To Being Mislynched Strat, inconsistency with Eury, not doing any work with courier and announcing, and how he handled end of Day is what's giving me doubts, and they're pretty significant ones, too. On balance, null; I've certainly got bigger fish to fry.

---

If anyone gets on me for artificially inflating this post with the SB content, really? I needed to make this post bigger? But I guarantee someone's gonna say it anyway, it's a pretty classic way to throw shade.

TO-DO LIST: Read Strawman (gut instinct scummy, haven't paid attention), Eury for interactions (doubt I'll get anything useful here), Rapier (people are talking about him), Prims (townread, want to see if that solidifies or weakens under scrutiny), Shinori (see: Prims). I'd also like to have conversations with literally anyone awake rn, that feels a lot more organic and easy to keep track of than poring over the game in retrospect.

SORRY THIS TOOK SO LONG. This post was started an hour and a half, maybe two hours ago. Praying for content tonight.

[Terrador]

Junko, I see you're here. Are you working on a reads post for Day 1 at the moment?

[Junk]

@mancer yeah my read changes because refa implied you yelled at EVERYONE for flaking. as for your second point mancer no offense but I don't think you would think of yelling at people for flaking for towncred as scum.

Have I done that reread? no but I read strawman because gut feeling

and ## Fos Strawman

his reads just seem very surface level. In post ## 124 he didn't really explain what was bad about bluedoom at all just saying his post ##54 (assuming 56 was a typo lol) was bad without explaning why. How is his discussion of me bad? In his ##139 he says bluedoom's opinions don't make sense to him but how is this scummy?

His post 173 vote just seems to be questions towards blitz and his questions don't really make sense because i'm pretty sure blitz's shinori vote was early into D1. I find it weird how he asks SB a question but doesn't vote him which would be fine except in his ## 307 he even admits that he found SB suspicious for it. What made blitz worse?

It just feels a lot like coasting scum to me IMO.

[MRDRHAWK]

Alec, I saw maybe two posts out of you, and you weren't dealing with being sick. You of all people in this game know why I wasn't posting here, so don't be picking a personal fight.

[Prims]

Gaius messaged me because I was around at the time and could post it soon after, immediately after I went to bed. BUT UHHHH

His day reads, from towniest to scummiest go Gaius > Shinori > Refa > Strawman > Rapier = Makaze > Blitz > SB, and his night reads go Prims > Junko > BBM > Mancer > Bluedoom > Elieson, with him only being confident on Elie. He assumes Via is a legit ITP and although Terra/Poly hadn't posted at the time of the message he has a gut feeling one of the two is scum, since he has a lot of townreads.

He says SB is his strongest scumread and that Elie is very close with a wide gap once he reaches Blitz. He no longer scumreads Mancer because he thought Mancer and Eury was either town/town or scum/scum.

[Prims]

my only real response to Gaius is that Blitz being in his day reads instead of his night reads is confusing, since assuming Mancer's numbers are true we're probably gonna be hunting for 2 day scum and 3 night scum due to balance reasons. I think assuming an interaction is definitely between two people of the same alignment is a bit questionable, but I'm town-reading Mancer regardless.

Poly's night post is alright except Terrador being the top scumread makes no sense? for one Terrador had made announcements so it's not like he was ignoring the game, and he also literally could not post in the game until this phase. Did Poly not realize this? After his response I can't tell.

[MRDRHAWK]

I actually did not notice that Terradork was making announcements.

[BBM]

@Poly- Even if you missed the fact that Terra made announcements and missed the fact that he literally couldn't post until this phase, how is someone being inactive your strongest scumread? I get that you were sick earlier but there've been many games where you've been healthy (to my knowledge anyways) and have barely posted at all. I think that you of all people getting on someone's case for being inactive is wtf. And then two of your other reads are just "they look worse after the Eury flip". Why do Strawman and Elie look worse after the flip and not SB and Refa, who also voted her and cased her?

[Terrador]

Alec, I saw maybe two posts out of you, and you weren't dealing with being sick. You of all people in this game know why I wasn't posting here, so don't be picking a personal fight.

Poly, did you not notice that this was literally the first day I had to post? And responding to me without noting "oh hey you have this gigantic content post, hrm, maybe he wasn't lying when he was saying there wasn't a tactical stall".

@Junko's most recent content post looks good to me--I dug into it to check for misrepresentation, and came up blank on that account. Not feeling too suspicious atm, but you definitely need more scumreads than Strawman by the end of toNight, and a better-fleshed-out primary read.

[Terrador]

Wait--not only did you not notice that I made announcements, but after having a fairly comprehensive list of reads, you're honestly telling me you didn't once notice that people had mentioned the (at least minor) content I had? Literally, Via, Makaze, Prims, Refa, SB, maybe more, all mentioned me at least once.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, now I need a sub.

[BBM]

I reread Junko kind of because I felt he was sort of coasting and I find it odd that despite scumreading Mancer for most of N0 and saying that half of Elie's Eury case was sheeped from Mancer in #74, he's never scumreading Elie? He doesn't place Elie under his scumlist along with Mancer in #74 or really say anything concrete about him at all, including in his courier message to Refa (#288), and then in #345 all he says is that Elie (and SB) are "probably bad" and that he should reread them but he doesn't, instead choosing to read Strawman, on whom suspicion seems to be growing rather fast.

basically if Elie is scum then Junko might be scum too #lininguplynches.

[BBM]

wow that sure is a run-on sentence

to summarize I feel like Junko might be Elie's buddy who's jumping on the Strawman wagon to bail him out

[Terrador]

"him" being Elie here, even though lynch pressure on Elie is pretty light?

[BBM]

Elie is like a consensus scumread I have no idea what you mean by the pressure being "light"

[Terrador]

Ah, good point, I just didn't pick up on much lynch pressure yesterday--I could see people consolidating onto him, even though I REALLY want him to post content--even though I suspect he won't, he may be the person who needs subbing out.