Augestein

It's fine. I was doing stuff too, and I need to finish my work. So I'm fine.

I'm not. But I'm explaining things and your response has been akin to "no" the whole time. Of which I don't understand that. What do you want me to say? All I said was there's at least a shred of something to allow for a somewhat believable behavior. Which it is. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to kill their father. You state "well they didn't go in a backstory about it." Which doesn't matter. Do you or do you not agree that a person under normal circumstances would feel hesitant to side against their father and potentially their kingdom? Botched executions be damned here for a second. You're the one that keeps bringing up the irrelevant stuff here. He does stand up to Garon. The end of Chapter 22. Garon orders the soldiers to be killed at the end of the chapter. Garon and Xander kind of have a stare off-- sure, Xander says "under...Stood." But come around to Chapter 23, and Sakura, the person that was among the group of soldiers being killed, is not dead, nor are her retainers. Plus, Iago and Hans don't kill them on the account that "if Hans and Iago weren't frightened of Xander, they'd be dead right now." And Garon doesn't bring up trying to slaughter the rest of them, Azura even mentions that "Garon's men do not agree with the choice to keep her alive," This literally means that they know she's alive, there's no hiding in the shadows like the Nohrian siblings mentioned in the early game and then it's mentioned by Azura that there is a split in the Nohrian army. Xander supporters and Garon supporters. It's all an exposition dump, and it would have been better to SHOW all of this rather than have Azura talk about it with Corrin afterward, but this is definitely there. Had Xander followed orders completely blindly without any sort of resistance or defiance, Sakura and Hinoka should both be dead. Since they aren't, there's some standing up to him. The intent isn't to degrade, but merely state that Xander has something going for him. Which is more than most of this type. I even state that I thought Linus and Lloyd are the best overall because they were at least trying to do the right thing. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. I don't think they should be counted, because they aren't fighting out of loyalty or anything, and despise themselves for doing so.

Well then I give up, because I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here now.

Because you're refusing to listen. And this is not at all relevant. Because Xander starts to oppose "Garon" around Hinoka-- he doesn't do anything, but the game at least makes mention that there's Xander supporters and Garon supporters. And more pressingly, in terms of Camus characters, Xander is at least able to stop carrying out the orders of the villain, Garon, which puts him ahead of characters like Bryce, Hetzel and Levail , Shiraham, Brunya which continue to carry out the orders whether they know the truth or not. So yeah, I know you can't resist bashing Fates at any given moment man, but cool your jets and think about the topic itself. Except again, we're talking about more than 1 character. We're comparing other Camus characters and counting Xander as one. So YES, it's absolutely imperative that we mention that "Xander could be worse," when he could have done what worse characters have done in the series. In a topic about them...? All I mentioned from the start was that Xander at least has the whole "let's not kill father," going for him. A lot of the Camus characters don't even have that.

No. I never said I liked him. All I've been saying is that at least it's somewhat understandable that he wouldn't want to side against his father at base. The handling of it is garbage, but how many Camus types are handled well? What I'm saying is that he could have been like Selena, Brunya, or any of the other "I will fight to the death morals be damned." But at least in Conquest, he does manage to you know, not decide to destroy Hoshido. It's not much, but it puts him ahead of others that simply do it because reasons. It's more like this: calling a bowl of rat poison inedible but worse than rat poison filled with emetics to cause vomiting in the event that it's ingested. Like we're talking about the best of the best Camus' and the worst. At least Xander kinda has a reason in that the villain is his father. It sucks that there's some inconsistency problems, but this is also the same game that has Sakura complain that she can't escape the faceless when her sister with a Pegasus is right next to her. No I didn't. I said "Xander could be worse in that he could have kept following to the end." Conquest Xander doesn't. Even if it's only to fight a slime monster, he at least stops. Which is more than some of the other characters that don't. Now explain how that doesn't make any sense? I already said that this is a problem for Xander as the game seems to have some consistency problems. That still doesn't make him worse than characters that fanatically follow to the death, even when they are presented as knowing their liege is wrong-- which again, Xander apparently does not know this. Like my argument makes more sense than "say Xander is the worst character ever."

Not entirely. Eldigan isn't convinced but caught in a rock and a hard place. He's not sure which side to take, and you can actually have Eldigan perish not even by your own hand. Selena knows she's wrong for instance and admits as such, to herself as well as Duessel. Bryce only does it to preserve the bloodline, and doesn't care if it's right or not. Brunya is just kind of there and doesn't have any reasons really. Her characterization is honestly really poor. To be honest, it's a bad trope in the first place, as some of the problem is that the person is borderline or beyond fanatical about their actions. Some of which are more justified than others like Eldigan, but some don't have any sort of anything but blind loyalty. Of which he's convinced himself loyalty to Garon is to everyone else as well. Like... It's something in comparison to many of the other ones. At least Xander is just laughably stupid-- a trait that seems to be par for the course in Fates. I think you're misunderstanding my point completely is the problem. The issue is that in the end of the day, he doesn't turn around and kill the heroes in Conquest. Conquest Xander isn't meant to be a Camus. Birthright Xander is, and I already mentioned that he's awful. Brunya for instance? She continues to fight for Zephiel despite him being dead. So yes, in comparison to people like Brunya, Conquest Xander in this case is in fact, better than she is despite the fact that Zephiel's entire plan is to eliminate humanity. Quite literally for Conquest Xander to be worse would require you to make Garon become the slime monster, kill him, and then Xander is like "I'm STILL going to kill Hoshido."

Not sure. Xander and Ryoma are kinda meh. Leo and Takumi are both pretty good. Camilla and Hinoka really don't do much to stand out. Elise does more than Sakura so I guess she's a bit better. Nohrians I guess.

Wow. This is a pretty solid read. I'm not done, but this is something akin to answering my question so far.

Of course it should. But that's just why the writing is so bad. The idea of a son not wanting to kill his own father isn't bad and is understandable, even if the father is kinda nuts. That I can believe. The issue is that we're given info contrary to it. We're to believe that Xander would openly defy his father if need be, the supports say so, and yet, at almost every given opportunity given in game, he's not doing it. That's what I'm saying. Having said that, it still at least puts Xander a little higher on the "stupid Camus" trope because at least he has some backstory with the man-- being his father and all. It's better than crazed zealots like Bryce who don't even have an actual established relationship, or Ishtar who fight because of "love." At least people like Selena have the brass to say they know they are wrong and they don't care-- which in my makes me forgive her as a character because she acknowledges her flawed logic. My biggest gripe with Xander is that the game doesn't want you to believe that Xander's mindset isn't messed up-- it is. But Xander himself on that I can partially bypass. The painting around him ? Nah. Sure it does. Even if Garon is a literal slime monster, he still in turn doesn't allow Garon to continue doing what Garon does. I'll grant you that there's no emotional weight, and that this was definitely stupid, but it's a small bit of stupid encased around a mansion of stupid at this point. Xander could have easily turned around and been like: "he's still right, we should kill all of Hoshido." He could have been worse. Much worse.

I suppose, but it's hard to think that they'd have to spell out that Garon wasn't always a total nutjob-- plus some supports seem to well... Support that. And I agree that this was pretty lame on their part to not specify that. It's my biggest problem with Fates and why I actually consider it the worst of them. So much talking, and so little of it actually matters. In this regard, I can bypass things that aren't super spelled out, like we don't have to see that Hinoka trained to know that she did, we can take it at value because the game says so and has her perform rather competently over the course of the game. Some things work in this regard, some don't. It's clear that the writers' / editors don't entirely understand when / how this works as it happens at several points in the game. I can also agree with this, but only partially. It's a jarring concept when you consider that supports and story Xander don't really mesh together. Story Xander is very weak-willed in almost every aspect, the game says he's not selfish and willing to do what he can for his country, but seeing Garon do these things, there's no real rationality for accepting it outside of foolish sentiments. That in and of itself doesn't bother me. The issue isn't that his actions aren't believable. They are depending on the characterization-- the issue is that the character traits given to Xander in addition to his behavior is nonsensical. That's the decisive blow that makes Xander awful. It's the equivalent to saying x + 3 = 8 and the author insists that the number is 6 when throughout the story we show that this mystery x is always 5. Yet the story wants you to believe that it's not despite the fact that it's obvious it is. It's the same reasoning for why I hate Azura (even worse than Xander could ever hope to be tbh). Her whole purpose is to prevent a war between the two nations, and she's just okay with totally screwing that up in 2 of the 3 routes. At least Xander has the Nohrian bias to cloud his judgment. It's the author's insistence that he doesn't take crap from anyone that's the issue here. When I say "come around," I mean that in the end, he does stand against his own father. He doesn't go the way of say, Selena or several other Camus archetypes, and fight you and die (at least in Conquest). He actually comes around to supporting / believing Corrin and eventually does the right thing. He's not heroic, but at least in the end of the day he did the right thing. Sort of like Darth Vader. Definitely not a hero, but somewhat redeemable by the end.

Gohan's older and has his own family and stuff to do. Trunks still lives with his mom and dad because he's a kid. Still Gohan and Goku was like fun times.

Lloyd and Linus are by far the best version of this. It's not even a contest. Both are on a team that's being fused with a team of evil people, and they aren't actually believing all of the garbage they hear, and actually think that Sonia is bad news. The first time they fight you is more of a test to see what your heroes are about. The second time, they are out for blood because they believed your group killed their brother. They are by far the best version of this. No contest. As much as it pains me to say ... I actually understand Xander's behavior, I'll say that this actually makes sense. Xander's behavior honestly reminds me of my oldest sister towards our father, a man that's done horrible self-destructive things to his own family, but she ultimately forgives because growing up he always favored her (like more than his own wife), and wasn't a dick to her personally. It's probably the biggest reason that there's a huge rift between the youngest, me, and the oldest, my sister. Xander's behavior here isn't actually that bad (in terms of believable storytelling) . It's frustrating, but it's actually kinda believable. And don't get me wrong storyline Xander is still kind of a jerk here, but it's a type of insensitivity that can be believed because he's the oldest, the heir to the throne, and he got the most of Garon's good years before he became possessed. Perhaps it's because of my own familial problems, but I can at least forgive Xander because he eventually comes around. At least in Conquest. Hoshido Xander is just dumb.

Depends on my mood. I generally like castles that let me grind supports. Although the best one I've ever seen was one where the enemy formations made a heart if you had all of their ranges highlighted.

I get ads for math books and various amazon ads in Spanish. Surprisingly mathematics is in English.

Agreed. If anything, you'd want those people there to keep viewers of those sources somewhat content. Now you're just blatantly making it so that people have a reason to rage. Also, is anyone going to comment on the fact that Trump is now talking about how the economy has gotten better due to his time in office despite: 1) These being natural fluctuations. 2) Him not sending any real economic orders / changes. 3) Even if he did, any orders he did wouldn't be able to change anything so rapidly? Like it's one thing for Trump to be bad at foreign policies, social politics, or even federal understandings, but finance should be his element. He should definitely know better about this. Like... What exactly IS this guy's level of education? Like I'm being dead serious on that one, I haven't bothered to look into it, but he's much older than most of us, and he doesn't seem to know anything.

Marry Silas. Kaze's child will appreciate the strength, and Kana will appreciate the speed. The talent won't help Kaze though, but Ninja could be nice for you.

Call me crazy but I'm starting to wonder if Beerus the Destroyer will become Beerus the Destroyed.

I'm more interested in what this means for Whis and Beerus' dynamic now.

I'd throw all of my money at it. I'm not even kidding. I'd so do this. I like this idea.

There were a few moments where people would try to bait Roy to do certain things to cause him to fail. They weren't necessarily just traps in the "ambush you," but political problems as well.

Exactly. Eliwood probably wouldn't kept it, as we see he'll abandon swords that make him do things he doesn't like. I'm sure practicing his swan dive is one of them. I have one. Chrom in Binding Blade. He dies because he falls for every trap in the book because he doesn't have Robin. Wow... I like Chrom, but he never really thinks about stuff like that. Ephraim would beat both into submission and then do Revelations' path before he sat down for dinner.

Olivia / Maribelle. That ending, I legitimately laughed. And I love Cynthia versus Severa. It's like a anti-support chain Haha.

Honestly, I'd say Geneology is the best concept, as it leaves much room for political intrigue, as well as a grand war that's happening. The entire concept is pretty people driven and grounded from the concept. Awakening is the worst in concept in my opinion. And it clearly shows as the writers apparently thought that Awakening needed not 1, not 2, but 3 concepts to be jammed into one narrative.

I know. I'm just noting that it's not quite the same as "foster siblings." It was my death playthrough where I let 1 person die every other chapter. I love Boyd. He's cool. Fighters are cool. Yeah, I always use them when I can. 2) Yeesh. Shippers are scary. I can see that, but trust me, I remember Eliwood x Ninian shippers being awful too back in the day. Platonic relationships are my favorite things. Like... I once told a friend that and she didn't understand what I was saying at all. Cue about 3 years later of us being friends and she's a platonic lover too. Haha.

Maybe, I just know that the dialogue for Ike and Oscar is pretty good. Even better if you had Boyd die. The conversation is actually pretty sad. Dialogue wise, Oscar only slows down after chapter 10. Before then they interact pretty often. But I can see your point. Although do people actually ship Oscar x Kieran? Kieran has a total rivalry going on? How's that romantic? I honestly don't ship Ike with anyone, and if I did, I like Ike x Aimee, because I think it's funny more than anything else. As for shippings, that's just what people do in games with optional shippings. Press their favorite one the most, it's like how people will fight you tooth and nail that Chrom x Sumia is canon despite the fact that Awakening's whole time travel nonsense would lead anyone to believe that NONE of the paths are canon or all of them. Ike x Soren I don't really like as a pairing because I honestly think that Soren would be better off without Ike, as Ike would continue to act as a crutch for him and not let Soren truly blossom into his own person. Maybe, but how can people not like the platonic ones? Basillo x Male Robin is hilarious. Like... I wish that guy had more supports.