riariadne Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Alright, here's sort of a question I've been mulling over for a while and I think I've randomly talked about it to people, but I remembered this thread exists and I think it's worth asking. It's not the only near-omnipresent game factor I disagree with but it's a big one. Hammers being required to lynch are very widespread, but so much of the time they feel out of place/ From a gameplay perspective, what does requiring a hammer for every/ almost every lynch bring that is interesting? The reason I bring this up is because I personally feel the answer is "nothing". So much of the time people don't care for any of the high-vote wagons towards a phase's end, or even as early as 24 hours before, and drop their actual cases just because they want to actually get a lynch accomplished. I think it hurts the idea of gunning for people you truly think are scum because pursuing a case is unrealistic, and the idea of getting unity for a lynch is nice, but in practice the amount of times everyone's like "this is a good lynch" and not a lot of people feeling "well this lynch actually sucks but I'd rather it than nothing". I'm curious to hear who feels differently about this. I think it is more tradition than anything at this point, but I'm not sure how many people disagree, and I think this is a discussion that really needs to be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) if there was no requirement for hammer, people get lazy and it makes hosts frustrated that people are not putting in effort for their games /thread edit: to further elaborate; if you want a lynch, push for it! you have 72 hours in a day phase to do so, that's enough time to convince others (which is the point of making cases etc) Edited November 16, 2014 by Curly Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just had the strangest idea: A Mafia game where we are anon accounts... using the same nickname as our fellow Mafia players! It'd be your opportunity to be MANix, which is... quite cool for some people, I suppose. That'd be bound to be funny and confusing and mindfucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 @The above: personally I think a compromise would be nice, like having at least a third of the playerbase vote (see: Cy'or now!). I feel like the end of day does just becomes a rush to go who you think is best but agree that town need something more to motivate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 we could always re-introduce the "if a majority is not reached my deadline/hammer is not reached by deadline, a random nonvoting person gets lynched instead" rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I just had the strangest idea: A Mafia game where we are anon accounts... using the same nickname as our fellow Mafia players! It'd be your opportunity to be MANix, which is... quite cool for some people, I suppose. That'd be bound to be funny and confusing and mindfucking. I've proposed this as like a Not SFMM5 before but don't want to host it because I'd rather play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 ^ I'd play it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 would you pick who you signed up as or something as your anon account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 would you pick who you signed up as or something as your anon account wouldn't that beat the meaning of the anon game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB. Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 no i mean you say to the mod "i want to be prims" or something like that and then you get to be prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 wouldn't that beat the meaning of the anon gamesignups can be through PM, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 signups can be through PM, you know... somehow I forgot about this, yay go me No, I thought about something random because it can get bothersome if two players choose the same nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 easiest way around the duplicate nicks is just to have a list of aliases that signed up, but not players also I imagined roles would be totally separate from nicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I could make a setup and then rng the roles to the slots and just put some posting restrictions in? NSFMM4 ended up being too much like an actual SFMM game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 i'd just have the roleplay be self-enforced since it's an anon game, but yeah that'd be cool, preferably a mostly vanilla set-up since we don't have enough of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Alright, here's sort of a question I've been mulling over for a while and I think I've randomly talked about it to people, but I remembered this thread exists and I think it's worth asking. It's not the only near-omnipresent game factor I disagree with but it's a big one. Hammers being required to lynch are very widespread, but so much of the time they feel out of place/ From a gameplay perspective, what does requiring a hammer for every/ almost every lynch bring that is interesting? The reason I bring this up is because I personally feel the answer is "nothing". So much of the time people don't care for any of the high-vote wagons towards a phase's end, or even as early as 24 hours before, and drop their actual cases just because they want to actually get a lynch accomplished. I think it hurts the idea of gunning for people you truly think are scum because pursuing a case is unrealistic, and the idea of getting unity for a lynch is nice, but in practice the amount of times everyone's like "this is a good lynch" and not a lot of people feeling "well this lynch actually sucks but I'd rather it than nothing". I'm curious to hear who feels differently about this. I think it is more tradition than anything at this point, but I'm not sure how many people disagree, and I think this is a discussion that really needs to be had. On top of what Manix said, *YLO would be a BITCH for scum, its an unfair disadvantage IMO. Also I've hosted a maf game without the hammer thing (FFM) and what happened there was even though people decided their lynch for the day in some phases I had to keep phase going till the end just because of the Day SK. So it kinda drags things too sometimes when its not necessary. EDIT: Regarding lynching for consolidation I'm one of the few players who actually advocate No-Lynch D1 if there aren't any good candidates but its tough to pull off those when people think No-Lynch= Free N1 Maf kill. Edited November 17, 2014 by Bluedoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 well you can have hammers be optional but not necessary for a deadline lynch, so it wouldn't be any worse in *YLO for scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think optional hammers are fine but mandatory just has the bullshit deadline scramble so very, very frequently. Requiring like a third is probably okay but I think half is just a pain that isn't actually helpful to have around, and I feel like if it was really a great motivational thing it wouldn't happen. Like when Manix said /thread before I think the insinuation that it is a universal motivation booster for players is actually pretty ridiculous. If anything I feel like hammer can sometimes be less motivating since after a point it basically locks in all lynch possibilities, or you get to dumb turbolynch territory. When people are like "better switch to this guy 10 minutes before deadline to consolidate!" that doesn't exactly strike me as good motivation, just filler shit because you have to have over half votes, better stop caring about real cases, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't require hammers in my game, but I do have a few other things to make sure that people don't get lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 if there was no requirement for hammer, people get lazy and it makes hosts frustrated that people are not putting in effort for their games /thread edit: to further elaborate; if you want a lynch, push for it! you have 72 hours in a day phase to do so, that's enough time to convince others (which is the point of making cases etc) 108 pages of Super Smash Bros Universe disagree with this. Back when we played mostly OC most games we didn't require a hammer either from what I remember. I think optional hammers are fine - if a lot of players agree on a lynch there's usually no point to playing out the entire day phase; mandatory hammers aren't awful or anything, but I don't think they really do a whole lot. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd think that if someone isn't motivated to play, instead of not posting in a non-hammer game, most of the time they'd just throw down a vote on the largest wagon in a hammer one. That's not what I'd consider effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think the supermajority option was a good alternative (CM5 also used this), where something like 1/2 of the players is needed to lynch someone at deadline, whereas 2/3 instalynches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 It was 2/5 at deadline, 1/2 to go to grace period, 2/3 supermajority. In hindsight I might've done 1/3 deadline but I think something like this is a lot better than required hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 so how big should I make the NSFMM5 setup? ~14/15 range or should I make it a large? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I don't really care either way; if I had to choose, I'd say 14/15. Edited November 17, 2014 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Make New Super Mafia Bros 14/15 please. Games with more than 50 pages are a pain to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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