Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

K finally Refa thank you. FTR, it seemed like you were subtly rolefishing by being confused at my unrecruitability (which was a joke, btw; you people are so dense). That's something definitely in scum Refa's range (meta is important, guys). I kind of feel like I'm dropping this cause it's way dated, but whatever.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Mitsuki

First two posts are still very scummy and questions have not been addressed. BBM case feels contrived and opportunistic, by the lack of conviction, timing, and that I find BBM's lines of thought reasonable in the quoted passages. In particular because I remember it, the last one where BBM talks about how outing cult can cause town to get overly suspicious is perfectly valid reasoning, which makes Mitsuki's point contrived. Additionally, it's a very minor point, so there's not that much to Mitsuki's case.

Speaking of BBM, I don't find him obvtown or anything, but there are other people I would much rather lynch. Same goes for Refa and Elieson.

##Vote: Extension

[Percivalé]

gonna get finished rereading elie and I think I'd rather lynch him today tbh but he we lynch mitsuki i'd be cool with that too because her recent posts aren't good

also let's not lynch bbm i really don't think he's scum and psych that's a really bad reason to think we're scumbuddies lmao

[Bluedoom]

Ok, I found my lead! I'm sorry Rein I don't know how I missed your Blitz case.

BBM vote is pretty bad because whatever interaction he had with Via was very early in the game. Don't understand why he's still keeping his vote on BBM because there are many other things BBM has done now which could perhaps change his read. Via scumread makes no sense too- it actually sounds like making certain neutral actions look scummy without getting into why they're scummy. Also bias but I'd expect him to read Via better since they've both been in games for quite a number of times. Guilty of what I accused BBM of his proto read earlier, except worse.

##Unvote ##Vote: Blitz

EDIT: Oh Weapons voted Mitsuki. Speaking of Mitsuki, I haven't read her recen t post and don't have time to atm but its plausible for her to be scum.

I'd rather lynch like, Blitz/Mitsuki though over Refa/Elieson/BBM, but of the three wagons currently, Elieson would be my preferred candidate, if only because of his passive-aggressiveness in his 2nd most recent post towards SB. (Passive-aggressiveness is the signature trait of Scum! Elieson)

[Percivalé]

K finally Refa thank you. FTR, it seemed like you were subtly rolefishing by being confused at my unrecruitability (which was a jobtw; you people are so dense).

what

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Fuck

*joke

Fucking phoneposting

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

"It was a joke and then it got funny"

Also, I got a kitten a little bit ago

[Bluedoom]

Oh for clarification

Even though I've had some problems with BBM's posts, I don't feel like lynching him and want to give him a chance to see what he's tryign to do N1.

Refa isn't striking me as town but AFAI can understand big chunk of the case on him is his BBM scumread. Don't want to lynch him for that.

[Kriemhild]

I'm at work now, so I can't really read or post much. I'll look through all this when I get back after about 9 hours or so. Sorry.

[Percivalé]

ok sorry roommate made me do dishes. I have a roommate now. it's great and also awful

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

All right so Marth said it for me: Elie is way more passive-aggressive/aggressive in general when he's scum. This I remember at least. Usually when he's town he's a lot easier on the pushing and stuff, idk. This is why I kept associating my read with ~gut~ and ~meta~ because usually when Elie is scum he stands out in the weirdest way and I can't really explain it aside from this. I would really like to see an Elie lynch today over BBM/Refa.

I read through Elie's ISO and here's stuff that bugged me

BBM using Self Meta is terrible and I think people who do it automatically become 75% more scummy because of it.

I literally do not even care that he included townreads because it's obvious that he would lynch his scumreads over his townreads.

His entire post was bad; poor scumhunting and bad self-defense. This is what scum does.

There, does that make sense?

This is his response to SB's opinion of his BBM scumread. Not only is this passive-aggressive but this and just Elie's scumread of BBM in general reeks of opportunism? BBM puts a lot of effort into explaining why what he was doing was not self-meta, and not only does this feel like scum aggression but self-meta alone doesn't make someone auto-scum (even though I agree that it is scummy in a lot of cases, those of you who are still going on about BBM's ~self-meta~ making him scummy need to go look for other things because idk I just have a bad feeling about this wagon).

(To be clear: BBM when he's scum tends to be more of a neutral presence that talks a lot without doing much either way? And BBM here really just isn't doing that.)

Mitsuki hasn't responded and also had questionable sheepable rolespec. I'm not committed enough to voting for her because I can't tell if I legit think she's scummy, or if I'm just sheeping because I'm incredibly distracted.

I really do not like this, it's waffly and I know associative reads are shit but because I'm reading both Mitsuki and Elie as scum this just makes the both of them seem worse to me :x

wrt whoever asked me about my Weapons vote; I voted him because I found his claim to be terribly antitown and potential third. At that point, early in the phase, pressure on him seemed like the most logical thing to try. Nothing really happened, but I'm not going to continue to push a third-party.

This kind of confuses me too. It reads like backpedaling? "I voted Weapons because I thought he was antitown and possibly third-party BUT I don't want to push a third-party anymore"

???

not to mention he doesn't... even consider weapons scum or town, just comes to the conclusion that he's third party and refers to him as such?

Reading his BBM case over again and yeah, it just feels like it's literally only "SELF-META IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO TO ARGUE YOUR INNOCENCE YOU ARE SCUM" and the thing about his reads charts which BBM clarified.

[Bluedoom]

Oh Elie/Mitsuki scumbuddies is an interesting observation and I think its plausible.

K, off to colelge, l8r

[Percivalé]

maybe 'opportunism' wasn't the right word for that but like, 'overly-pushy' for the shoddy reasons he's been pushing BBM for

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I see that Elieson is using weird logic, but I'm pretty sure he does this as town (I distinctly recall often disagreeing with his posts). What makes this different from other games where he was town?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Actually, a better question would be why does weird logic imply scum? What do you think of the possibility Elieson actually believes in his reason? For that matter, do you think Elieson would push a case with reasons he knew were shoddy? If not, what makes his weird logic scummy?

[Percivalé]

i never said his logic was weird??? just kinda bad but bad logic isn't in itself scummy either

i think he's playing to his scum meta and his bbm case to me just feels weird

[Iris]

I am going to bed soon, and I probably won't post til morning. I also ISO'd Blitz and I find him to be a little weird and not playing to his typical town meta, but IDK. Would lynch if Elieson lynch doesn't go through? Would like to see a defense from Elieson as well.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Ok, bad instead of weird. It seems like your points are really based on that with vibes derived as toppings, but if you say so.

[Iris]

im still awake

this has been bothering me

refa what do you think of Elie, I think he's the largest wagon and you haven't commented yet so that's kind of weird idk

[Refa]

I'll have to read through his actual content to get a better read on him, but my initial impressions were town. Like at the time when I was one of the biggest wagons, he just threw a one liner about how he thinks I'm town. As scum, I figure he'd either 1) vote me and join the wagon or 2) defend me so he could get town cred if I happened to get lynched.

[Refa]

Er, when I say "defend me" I mean make an actual town read on me.

[Sunwoo]

I'm really tired right now and my headache hasn't gotten better. What are the current votals right now? Last I checked the leading wagons were BBM and Elie. I refuse to vote BBM and I'd rather lynch Elie, but I don't want to switch and risk an early hammer or L-1.

[Paperblade]

BBM (5): Refa, Blitz, Elieson, Psych, Mitsuki

Elieson (5): Iris, Shinori, BBM, Rein, Levity

Iris (2): scorri, Belisarius

Refa (2): Kay/SB, Boron

Mitsuki (2): Proto, Weapons

Boron (1): FFM

Weapons (1): Eurykins

Blitz (1): Marth

Voteless (1): Bearclaw

There's about 17 hours left in the phase. It's unlikely there will be an extension unless more people want it.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, so, BBM and Elie's wagons are tied right now. I don't want to lynch BBM over Elie and don't want to risk it happening, so:

##Unvote

##Vote: Elieson

[Bluedoom]

So do i hammer?

[Bluedoom]

Oh wait 7's not hammer lol

[SB.]

Bleeeeh

##Unvote
##Vote: Elieson

Not really reading BBM's recent posts as scummy, and I don't like how Eli reappears to say I GOT A CAT and vanishes again.

I haven't actually read Eury's post yet (I'll do it when I'm properly awake) but that feels like way too many suspicions for Day 1 that you'd be willing to lynch by (and FFM is third priority when he has one post? What?) and it makes me kind of paranoid that you're just throwing out whatever you can find on as many people as possible.

Ugh let me explain this again. OK, so let's say I'm scumreading two people (Chump -i and Doofus 3000). Chump's higher on my priority list, but Doofus is voting him for a shit reason. Wouldn't this make you at least think about your priority, even if at the end it was still the same? It's not about his lynch priority itself that bothers me (he could have the same lynch priority and it wouldn't be bad), it's about him basically creating his reads in a vacuum and making a lynch priority without actually caring about how they are in relation to one another. Like some people do that normally (first person to come into mind is Eurykins, who usually has like 10 scumreads on Day 1), but BBM is not one of those people.

Associative reads don't really work day 1, the best you can do is point them out for later days. So I don't really see what's wrong with what BBM did there tbh. Also there's a cult, so cult v mafia interactions could possibly be a thing.

that literally just makes it sound like bizz is your scumbuddy and you two want an extra night alive

Dude, you haven't even said anything about Via. Why are you jumping to the conclusion BBM is relying on his scumbuddy to clear a fakeclaim for him?

I agree with Weapons about Mitsuki's BBM case being meh because she hasn't talked about any of his recent posts despite casing him?

Marth, why did you go "I can see Mitsuki being scum" for no reason? If you haven't even read her posts, how can you ever consider it to be a gutread?

Might post more after properly waking up, dunno.