Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[Blitz]

Blitz since literally only you think I'm scum for things I always do I'm just gonna like. Reply to your stuff halfheartedly. Because I'm not gonna spend too much time defending myself. Sorry

And yes I would also like votals because it looks like we are not lynching Bear today and I wanna know who I need to reread bc I don't have time to reread everyone unfortunately

you should explain why your Bear case is better than my case on you and why it is better than a simple inactive lynch

[Refa]

Oh cool, Day 1 ends on August 25 (thanks for the help guyz). I'll probably make a reads post in 5ish hours or so (maybe earlier, I'm not a Time Wizard). For some reason every time I make a reads post, people are like REFA PUTTING SO MUCH EFFORT MUCH WOW VERY TOWNIE even though I'm not actually putting in more effort than I was before (just typing out my thought process). Bitches love reads posts, I guess.

[Elieson]

I have no idea what Eli's case on me is supposed to be, or your case on BBM either. He used self-meta and then included a townread in his lynch priority to say that he would lynch other people over them? How is this scummy again?

BBM using Self Meta is terrible and I think people who do it automatically become 75% more scummy because of it.

I literally do not even care that he included townreads because it's obvious that he would lynch his scumreads over his townreads.

His entire post was bad; poor scumhunting and bad self-defense. This is what scum does.

There, does that make sense?

I haven't read everything yet, so hold your horses. But I wanted to say something.

Pretty sure BBM slated Bizz as his most town read???? Hence why they were at the end of the priority lynch list? Either I'm misreading or you are??

I interpreted his mention of Quote in his lynch chart as a scumread; otherwise he would have mentioned every single player in the list, implying that Quote is among his more townie-reads. The mere fact of including her in a concise lynch-priority list implies that he has some form of scumread on her.

lol Elie what I wasn't using my meta to defend myself, I was using it as an example of something scum do to clarify my case on Bearclaw to SB. Also yeah what Iris said; Iris and Bizz are townreads, which is why they're at the bottom.

like Elie's post makes 0 sense because he talks about SB's vote on me being bad and then... votes me for a reason related to that. He dismisses Mitsuki just because she hasn't responded to anything- what? SB is scummy... why? What was bad about his vote and unvote on me?

BBM I literally think that posting meta as a self-defense is one of the most scummy things that anybody can do ever, so I think you're extremely scummy for it.

I was unclear on the Iris/Quote thing...I figured since they were on your list, that you had mild scumreads on them. Mybad.

Mitsuki hasn't responded and also had questionable sheepable rolespec. I'm not committed enough to voting for her because I can't tell if I legit think she's scummy, or if I'm just sheeping because I'm incredibly distracted. Also, SB said:

BBM, why were you so concerned about what Via thought if you were townreading them anyway? And why does it matter that bear isn't townreading Via? These points kind of bug me because they feel contradictory to your actions or pointless (respectively).

It reads like he's being more inquisitive to you, and has two other people that he could place his vote on that he seems more "confident" about. Why would SB vote for a player that appears indecisive on? The vote on you looks like a decent pressure vote but he took it off after one response, so what was the purpose of that vote? It's clearly not aimed at any kind of definitive scumread. If it was just a reaction test and vote for pressure to get an answer then that makes sense, but I still think his vote was out of place when he could've just asked you for clarification and not placed a vote on you. That's why I think SB is scum(my).

---

BBM I'm trying but I'm just not getting your response to me wrt the Self-Meta not actually being Self-Meta, and would really appreciate it if you tried explaining your case again with quotes and stuff.

[Shinori]

TIME TO SCUM HUNTS.

Readnig getting caught up and post scum reads and getting a vote down and shiz.

[Sunwoo]

I would disagree; in fact, I would say that not giving reasons is a better indicator of town than scum. Not giving reasons as town commonly arises when the player reads the thread not really in depth, has some impressions, and posts them. Scum is more likely to tack on some reasoning perhaps to expressly avoid your kind of suspicion, which may get a bit roundabout, but that's the current state of things. As for not contributing, that's true of many other players as well. In this particular case, I have no recollection of what bearclaw actually posted and am phoneposting, but the reasons you've given are rather poor for the level of commitment you have to the read (what I mean by "sure"). You've seen plenty of times when the not contributing/not explaining ED1 flips town, no?

I can't say I agree with the sentiment in the first sentence, Weapons. I don't think not giving reasons is any more an indicator of town than it is scum, but it's definitely scummy. Should I ignore something I really don't like because "it's the current state of things"? I'm getting on bear's case because he had enough time to post this, then he has enough time to give more reads aside from a noncommittal comment about Refa's BBM vote and a comment about his usual activity/play. I consider that to be worse than people who just outright poofed.

I've also seen plenty of times when the not contributing/not explaining ED1 flips scum. Like Sho in my Folgore Rangers mafia, who spent the entirety of D1 pissing people off and got lynched because he refused to defend himself or give reads or do anything. And arguably you in Kirby mafia.

While I don't want lynch Mitsuki off her only post in the game, her post really is terrible. I wouldn't be opposed to her lynch, but I'd rather see her get back and post more content first.

Elie, is BBM's self-meta the only reason you suspect him? Why is his scum hunting "poor"?

Refa's posts bother me, and upon first glance I think it's because of the amount of unnecessary spam posts in his ISO that make his ISO longer but don't say much else. I also can't tell who else he suspects aside from BBM, and I still don't understand WHY he is voting BBM. You mentioned Iris in an earlier post, what do you think of her now?

Paper, put Rein's ISOs in the first post, I'm tired of going to page 8 to ISO people.

[Eurykins]

Dear lords, the iRL shizz is real. Gimme 2-3 hours to pull up a post (incoming wall post, maybe? Idk). Sorry for the inactivity. xP

[SB.]

Eli, why is self-meta scummy rather than JUST BECAUSE IT IS? Why is it scummy in this specific context? Your case on me is 90% based on semantics; just read my posts in previous games and you'll see that his phrasing is nothing new to me. Your cases are really bad.

[Shinori]

@shinori it's nice that you're culthunting so early but who do you think is mafia

also I don't get how you came to the conclusion of "cult" from that conversation, then turned around and explained how you came to the conclusion that I was cult from my general meta. inconsistency

Let me get started by saying I honestly didn't get much at all from the first like 6 or so pages. Really didn't. The bearclaw stuff was probably the biggest thing besides the interactions between Levy and BBM. I thought it was kind of weird that he didn't vote and even mentioned he wasn't going to vote but I also don't see scum!Bear doing that and I felt the jumps onto him were a bit easy as a part of it. Probably the biggest one I disliked was BBM's. He just moved his vote onto bear and the only reasoning was that 'He didn't like Bear's objection of the town read on Levy.' To me, it currently seems like a lot of BBM's posts are more defending himself and just posting general reads and not actually scumhunting. I'm kind of null on him at the moment with the possibility of him being scum. I'd honestly be more confident in him being scum if it weren't for the fact that Elie is pushing him and I'm scum reading Elie.

I feel iffy on elie but I think I'm currently leaning scum on him. His first big wall really reminds me of his scum play though honestly. His Response to BBM also felt bad. Or plausibly forced. Reading as scum at the moment. Would like him to post on his other scum reads and not just BBM.

Scorri is inactive and I would love for her to do more, completely null at the moment which doesn't help anything. PLEASE SCORRI COME JOIN US I DON'T BITE.

Don't like FFM's post but he needs to post more for a more solid read.

Also currently I don't like SB cause gut from a few of his posts. I'll probably have to get into this a bit later. But a fair amount of it is just gut/feeling and I don't like it.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Elieson

Current thing is something like Elie > SB > BBM > a few inactive-ish people > Levy > Null reads > town reads

[Belisarius]

why do people keep taking that out of context anyway... I don't get it

Because it seems like the only reason people are voting bear is because he said he didn't think you were obvtown. Not being obvtown doesn't mean he thinks you're mafia. This is weak reasoning and I would mostly think it was a test vote but a ton of people have done it. There's really no reason for anyone to think you are obvtown. I don't think you're obvtown, bandwagon me guys.

@Beli, you say "yay! game" and yet you decide to vanish. This shows how much enthusiasm you truly had regarding this game, no?

by your meta on scum, I would say you are very likely scum. If we are going for an inactive lynch, I would like Beli lynched (right after Mitsuki)

I actually said "yay game!" get it right man.

4. Going off of point 3, finding a lynch target is really hard, since a lot of people who are mildly suspicious only have 1-3 posts, and it's really hard to analyze them. And assuming they're not scum (since there are TOO many of them), ..advantageous if you'd sub out if you aren't able to post (especially since y'all have been on). Like I would say you know who you are, but you're probably not even reading this thread. -_-

Calling for subs Day 1 is dumb and mafia.

##Vote Iris

[Iris]

Wow for once I actually agree with a lot of things Shinori (lolscumnori) has said. Except I'm neutral about SB.

Iris doesn't like me because of effort + my casing on Weapons. The latter, I'll bite on, but the former shouldn't apply to anything, because it's activity based and meta based, and I'm not like you kids where I have more available time to mafia over the weekends. Her general casing is pretty solid though, I'm just peeved that half of the reason she's voting for me is because I usually have more of a presence.

When I say presence, I mean meta. And you're posting a lot like you did in I can't believe it's not SFMM4 so I am getting major scum vibes from you. Your continuing posts have not been helping my belief (a lot of weird logic too and you seem to be reading too quickly, too).

I need to reread to confirm my lynch priority, but my top lynch choice is Elieson, who's with me?

I don't get what you're trying to say here? Can you explain this a bit better?

Oh, I meant that while I found Mitsuki's post to be scummy, I didn't mean I thought she was scum.

Calling for subs Day 1 is dumb and mafia.

##Vote Iris

Is this an RVS or serious vote?? The reason I'm especially annoyed about activity is because my good friend Cam was slightly upset about not getting in and I'm p sure he would've been more active than all the inactives combined.

[Sunwoo]

Calling for subs Day 1 is dumb and mafia.

##Vote Iris

Beli, is Iris seriously the scummiest person in this game just for that? ;/

[Belisarius]

It's serious.

Yes Sang. Day 1 hasn't even ended and someone is calling for subs? That's really scummy.

[Iris]

It's kind of sad you have no other reads though?

D1 will end in about 24 hours, it's about time to pick a lynch target. With 8/20 people with under 5 posts with 24 hours to go, this inhibits scum hunting D1 greatly. Basically people will fly under the radar or we won't get enough town votes to lynch scum.

D1's 33%+ for a lynch, btw, guys,

also rein stop active lurking pls

[Sunwoo]

It's serious.

Yes Sang. Day 1 hasn't even ended and someone is calling for subs? That's really scummy.

Do you have any other opinions on anything else people have done, though? While I could see why you'd think calling for subs in D1 is scummy, I'm kind of ??? that aside from the bearclaw-Via debacle this is the only other thing that sticks out to you.

[Belisarius]

Do you have any other opinions on anything else people have done, though? While I could see why you'd think calling for subs in D1 is scummy, I'm kind of ??? that aside from the bearclaw-Via debacle this is the only other thing that sticks out to you.

Not really. I'm kind of reading scum on Quote because of her reactions to the bear thingy. Everything else seems like standard Day 1 shenanigans.

[BBM]

Elie I wasn't even using self-meta as a defence. Seriously read the post- I'm using an example of my scum game to talk about something ALL scum do and then comparing it to something BEARCLAW is doing, and calling him scum because of it. My play, in this game, doesn't enter anywhere into it. And even if it did he's just like SELF-META IS THE SCUMMIEST THING YOU CAN DO END DISCUSSION without even explaining why self-meta is scummy.

Elie is just like throwing around accusations with literally no backing about how my post is poor scumhunting and stuff because he's said nothing about my Refa case and clearly isn't reading my Bearclaw case either. His SB case is extremely semantic because it hinges on SB voting me for weak pressure despite not being as suspicious of me as others because he used "kind of".

I think I prefer this to Refa right now, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson

[Mitsuki]

I'm back, and I'll (re)read everything now.

To people who have voiced suspicion on me: The hydra spec was something I thought before the game started. Yesterday I tried to read the thread but I understood like 0% of what was going on, so I placed a vote based on stuff that I recalled from outside the thread since prods are a thing. Also with regards to SB and Kay, what I meant with my post was that I think they are more likely to be 3rd than other slots but I obviously need to read them.

##unvote

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Would lynch Beli too now, for what the other person said, above appearance to other person's prod, and reasons I'm sure other people see about said appearance that I really don't feel like exactly pinning down.

I think Elieson is town and people are voting him for things he usually does as town (weird logic mainly).

Shinori is probably scum cause he hasn't done anything scummy.

Refa, if you want me to move my vote, you only need to respond to that one thing. I understand phoneposting sucks and I feel you.

Also, ftr, I'm kinda null on the rest of Refa.

I agree with someone (Iris?), who said SB seems to be throwing fire a bit, but he's not high on my list.

Mitsuki seems like the type to disappear under pressure.

Now starting to find Boron scummy for sticking so hard to it. I guess it's not so much that entirely, but I feel like she would reconsider more as town in the face of a bunch of other stuff happening. The other content portion of her most recent bigpost doesn't feel like she has the conviction for trying to scum read Refa, and in particular, the blurb on Mitsuki reads strongly as a scumbuddy defense. I think Boron no doubt normally finds the Bear model scummy, and the conviction there is real, but the factors surrounding it are scummy.

Scumbox: Mitsuki, Belisaurus, Boron

Townbox: uhhh

Primsbox: BBM

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Do you think SBKay is not third party then with that unvote? Actually why unvote at all; what has changed?

[Sunwoo]

Not really. I'm kind of reading scum on Quote because of her reactions to the bear thingy. Everything else seems like standard Day 1 shenanigans.

… I don't know how you can ignore everything except for Quote and Iris by waving it off as "standard D1 shenanigans," but it strikes me as scummy. ;/

Weapons, I have no idea what you're saying at all. For the record, I'm leaning scum on Refa but I'm having a hard time putting it into words and explaining it, and I'm sorry I don't like lynching people with only one post ?_?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I think you're scummy cause the bear stuff reads as trying to maintain reads too consistently (it fels artificially), along with that it is really your most dominant read when I feel like you should have said stuff about more other things by now, which fits I guess with the consistency point. The Mitsuki thing is contingent on Mitsuki being scum, but if so, that's a strong point against your favor. I realize my last post was not very clear on reread soo hopefully this should help.

[Sunwoo]

I think you're scummy cause the bear stuff reads as trying to maintain reads too consistently (it fels artificially), along with that it is really your most dominant read when I feel like you should have said stuff about more other things by now, which fits I guess with the consistency point.

I don't really get what you're saying about "trying to maintain reads too consistently" with regards to bear. I mean, he hasn't done anything new so I still dislike him? I admit I haven't really talked a lot about other things, but I was out all day yesterday and I had a hard time getting back into the game when I did get around to posting, so I wanted to put down what DID stick out to me as soon as I could.

The Mitsuki thing is contingent on Mitsuki being scum, but if so, that's a strong point against your favor. I realize my last post was not very clear on reread soo hopefully this should help.

But if Mitsuki does flips scum, why is it only someone who's her scumbuddy that would say the thing you are harping on me for is what I do not get.

[FrostyFireMage]

Not really a fan of Iris' response to my vote, feels like OMGUS ;/ It felt like Mitsuki was her highest scumread in #133 yet she votes Elieson mostly out of gut? That's also pretty hypocritical I guess, which is itself pretty hypocritical considering her response to my vote. Hypocritiception? I'm guessing by BBM's comment that she's fairly new so it could just be newbishness

@SB: I didn't really many reads at the time so I was just trying to get some context with Blitz's role really. Also Bear was really kind of a null read at the time - I didn't think it was wise to form a wagon on him for doing what he usually does.

Why would Psych/Weapons claim their unrecruitable status so early? Couldn't a rolecop/tracker/whatever easily find out if they're lying? I guess they could be bombs or some such trying to wipe out those roles but IDK

I agree with SB that Refa's comment in #164 about BBM complaining about bad votes on him feels unnecessary. There is a third-party, so there easily could be cult jumping on a mafia wagon or vice versa.

This may be my permanoobishness talking but I don't see how making blatantly poor votes like Mitsuki's is a scumtell. Wouldn't scum make better posts/votes in order to avoid looking scummy?

Boron's fixation on bearclaw feels odd considering there are more players with more content. Plus her recent posts feel more like she's criticizing others, namely Beli (#211 and #214), possibly to make him seem scummier?

Elieson's logic that "self-meta = major scumtell" feels kinda contrived but the way he acts so sure about it is giving me town vibes, like he's drawing attention to himself when he shouldn't be.

anyway Boron is the player who I'm getting the largest scum vibes from at the moment.

##Unvote

##Vote: Boron

also I didn't get dem kitties so fuk u :<<

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Scum has to manufacture reads and in doing so, has to make sure their pattern of suspicions looks like something like town would do. I find this pattern for you off, that you were sticking too much to your bear read.

Scum tends to say scumbuddies are bad but will give them less priority as a classic tactic. Certainly town can do this too, but I believe scum is more likely to.

Why do claim I think it is something only Mitsuki's scumbuddy would do? Would it be fair for me to interpret your bearclaw read reasons as something only scum would do?

[Psych]

give me a few minutes to get a post together, getting quotes is hard