Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[Percivalé]

so irl shit just kicked me right in the ass.

I probably won't be able to focus on this game properly for the rest of D1 <____< i'll still try to keep up though

[Iris]

hope you feel better bizz :(

unrelated but IMPORTANT

psa

when people talk on skype about random things to you and then read this thread and then not post

that is scummy you active lurker scum

you know who you are

post!!

psa

[CT075]

that is the reason i should be policy lynched every day imho

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

According to this thread,

I agree with the only point on Mitsuki (inb4 easy case), but alas, have one vote to spare. As for Refa, I ask that you please continue to where you were going by questioning my unrecruitability.

Bizz reads as town Via; then again 3rd party everybody reads as town everybody as was pointed out, but I don't see the bit for cult Levy over town Quote.

TBH, I get scumvibes from BBM (it feels like he's being cautious but idk if that's the right word), but not gonna vote cause he's Prims.

Agree that Psych is town, but scum mastermind would be an awesome plot twist.

Iris is okay

[riariadne]

I did these because reading and looking for specific things people say is hard. This ended up making way more work than I really wanted to do for myself, which is somewhat unfortunate.

[spoiler=ISOs]BBM

Bearclaw

Belisarius

Blitz

Boron

Elieson

Eurykins

FFM

Iris

Kay/SB

Marth

Mitsuki

Proto

Psych

Refa

Reinfleche

scorri

Shinori

Via

Weapons

First thing's first after those is to ##Unvote because it's an outdated RVS vote that's of no use to anyone.

I don't like FFM's post right now but I am hesitant to vote on it because I feel the same about his posts literally every game for the same reasons (including Tyne Wear before Juliette felt like mentioning I was mafia to me) so I will not act on it yet, but it is worth keeping in mind if it continues.

I have no idea about the cats thing, so that's whatever to me.

Weapons seems to be acting even more unusual compared to usual imhotep. This is honestly mostly gut but he just feels especially unhelpful, though I don't have too big of issues with his reads, but the whole unrecruitable thing just feels like if you've already outed that you can't be recruited there is not really a need to be obtuse about it.

Don't like Blitz's vote on BBM. It seems really looking into things too much for this stage of the game and pressuring stuff that isn't concrete very hard. Also he doesn't really give a great explanation with why he'd be voting Bizz if he wasn't voting for BBM which is a bit jarring.

##Vote: Blitz

[Sunwoo]

Hi, I was out with friends all day. Let me catch up.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, so after my initial read of the thread here are some things that stand out:

Still don't like bearclaw. I don't like that he chooses not to explain his reasoning on Via with just "I believe in the legitimacy of my post". Even if you do, how is it pro-town to not explain the reasoning for your reads or vibes? Vote stays.

Also, Mitsuki's vote on Kay stinks. I don't like how her vote is basically setup-spec, and "why isn't Kay posting". She also explicitly said that she doesn't think the slot is scum, but third hunting this early on, especially without any solid proof, just seems like a complete miss.

I don't have problems with Shinori, even if I don't agree with his read on Via. I'm feeling pretty good about Via right now. Also, I am not sure why BBM got a sudden influx of votes, and I particularly don't understand Refa's vote on him. Refa's vote rubs me the wrong way because his vote seems to lack conviction. "I seriously don't know what to make of it" =/= scummy.

Will need to reread Proto because his posts seemed okay upon first glance, but upon a second glance a lot of it seems to be rolespec and doesn't feel helpful at all.

[BBM]

Weapons is there actually something you can do to help me out?

Reading his posts I thought he had more content than he actually did. But yesterday was like all joking around. His last post is literally the only one with reads but it doesn't explain why he finds Refa suspicious or why Refa is worse than Mitsuki (or even me, for that matter, other than my character), and the rest is just comprised of stock townreads and stuff.

Read Iris as well; I have decided she's more likely town. I was buddies with her in SF3 and even though she was really into that game and talking with me and Refa constantly on Skype, she never really posted that much or tried contenting except when she felt she had to. Not like super-strong but definitely leaning town.

Also realized that Refa didn't even really respond to what I asked, like why he stuck with Weapons over me and then switched to me even though Weapons did nothing really in the interim and the only new thing he added to my case was me trying to appease Bizz. Also like... maybe this is just semantics but saying a case is "okay" to me implies that you don't particularly lean any way on it.

Refa > Bearclaw > Mitsuki/Weapons > Others > Iris > Bizz I guess.

Elie is next but I'll probably like sleep first.

I didn't include Psych anywhere in my priority because I'm kind of waffling and then ending up at NO CONCLUSION but I don't think people realize that town knowing of a cult's existence is not actually all helpful. People are a lot less trusting and a lot more paranoid when they know there's a cult. Whenever you have a townread and they survive a while you think MAYBE THEY GOT CULTED and you start doubting it. Which is good in one sense because they might actually be cult but then they might also just be town and you're being paranoid. The only thing is that Psych is a kind of impulsive player and I'm not sure he'd think so deeply about it.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

^My Refa vote is really just based off one thing, and I'd like a response before I consider switching. I can't remember anything else he's done atm, ftr.

As for you, I can help you in a sense (vagie on purpose). I said you were being cautious, and if you want more words, I can give you "careful" and "non-commital".

[Percivalé]

in case I'm not around for the rest of the day phase I would really like a Bear lynch today first and foremost, but after rereading some things if we REALLY have to I wouldn't mind a Refa lynch. I'm not as happy about it but I would like it better than a BBM lynch for ~meta~ reasons and I do agree that his BBM vote was pretty bad.

I'll try to be back to check over things but yeah sorry about this.

[Refa]

Hi, I'm on my phone so sorry if I spam because phone posting rules or something.

[Refa]

in case I'm not around for the rest of the day phase I would really like a Bear lynch today first and foremost, but after rereading some things if we REALLY have to I wouldn't mind a Refa lynch. I'm not as happy about it but I would like it better than a BBM lynch for ~meta~ reasons and I do agree that his BBM vote was pretty bad.I'll try to be back to check over things but yeah sorry about this.

You should explain the ~meta~ reasons because while I will disagree it will let other people form their opinion of it.

[Refa]

^My Refa vote is really just based off one thing, and I'd like a response before I consider switching. I can't remember anything else he's done atm, ftr.

As for you, I can help you in a sense (vagie on purpose). I said you were being cautious, and if you want more words, I can give you "careful" and "non-commital".

Response to what?

[Refa]

Weapons is there actually something you can do to help me out?

Reading his posts I thought he had more content than he actually did. But yesterday was like all joking around. His last post is literally the only one with reads but it doesn't explain why he finds Refa suspicious or why Refa is worse than Mitsuki (or even me, for that matter, other than my character), and the rest is just comprised of stock townreads and stuff.

Read Iris as well; I have decided she's more likely town. I was buddies with her in SF3 and even though she was really into that game and talking with me and Refa constantly on Skype, she never really posted that much or tried contenting except when she felt she had to. Not like super-strong but definitely leaning town.

Also realized that Refa didn't even really respond to what I asked, like why he stuck with Weapons over me and then switched to me even though Weapons did nothing really in the interim and the only new thing he added to my case was me trying to appease Bizz. Also like... maybe this is just semantics but saying a case is "okay" to me implies that you don't particularly lean any way on it.

Refa > Bearclaw > Mitsuki/Weapons > Others > Iris > Bizz I guess.

Elie is next but I'll probably like sleep first.

I didn't include Psych anywhere in my priority because I'm kind of waffling and then ending up at NO CONCLUSION but I don't think people realize that town knowing of a cult's existence is not actually all helpful. People are a lot less trusting and a lot more paranoid when they know there's a cult. Whenever you have a townread and they survive a while you think MAYBE THEY GOT CULTED and you start doubting it. Which is good in one sense because they might actually be cult but then they might also just be town and you're being paranoid. The only thing is that Psych is a kind of impulsive player and I'm not sure he'd think so deeply about it.

Why are you complaining about bad votes on me? If you thought I was scum, this should not actually be something you care about.

Iris read is legit.

I stuck with Weapons over you because I didn't feel confident in my read. Is this optimal play no but you've never explained why this was scummy. Also why are you not making even a minimal effort to analyze my recent posts (even a "Refa's reads are OK but he'd totally be that good as scum" or something)?

Only thing that makes me doubt my BBM read is his Psych read tbh. The indecision there seems legit which makes more sense from town than scum. Still think my other points outweigh it though.

[Percivalé]

Out of the big lynch options people are considering today, I don't think BBM is playing to his scum meta, I think Bear is the scummiest, and you're just... like, there. I dunno.

[Refa]

Oh also him claiming "Prims". Not sure what to make of that.

[Refa]

But I don't really get the bearclaw scum reads. Like I wasn't bothered by what he did in the beginning and he hasn't really done much since?

[Refa]

I hate phone posting. Anyways forgot to mention that Iris' reply to me was cool (although I already implied that earlier but I know someone is going to ask #selfconscious).

Also BBM, there is nothing more to my vote. I'm not scum reading you for your reply to me (this should answe your issue Boron) but because Blitz and SB to a lesser extent made good cases on you. Also I don't get why you're townreading Proto or why he's not on your lynch priority list (I think? Fuck me if I'm wrong).

[Refa]

I was going to make another post but fuck it the rest is just about townreads anyways. Later.

[Sunwoo]

But I don't really get the bearclaw scum reads. Like I wasn't bothered by what he did in the beginning and he hasn't really done much since?

That's definitely a problem with bearclaw, though. There's been enough stuff for him to comment on, but he's barely participated and hasn't said anything committal. That, and not explaining his reads or reasons for what he thinks isn't helping at all. He says he disagrees that Via is obv!town. So does he think Via is scum? Or is Via town but not obviously so? How is not explaining why he thinks what he does townie at all?

[Refa]

The activity thing doesn't really bother me because bearclaws activity sucks as both alignments (see: Tyne Ware, a game where he was confirmed town from Day 1), no offense bearclaw. I agree that him not explaining his Bizz read is antitown, but at the same time I think that kind of behavior can come from either alignments (and he didnt even attempt to explain it, which is what id expect him to do as scum). Personally he's just kind of null on the same level as other inactives for me.

[Refa]

#ICanStopWheneverIWant

[SB.]

I don't really like SB's vote here. It also kinda bothered me that bearclaw didn't provide any thoughts on why he disagrees that Via is Town, so BBM inquiring him about it makes perfect sense to me. SB's vote also came right after Blitzy's vote on BBM, but the reasoning was entirely different so I'm not sure if he was trying to sheep Blitzy or not.

If bearclaw didn't say anything explicitly, he's probably nullreading Via, so what is there to really explain there? And I'm not sure why you think I might be sheeping Blitz when I have completely different reasoning?

No idea why Refa thinks this is a stronger case than the one he has on Mitsuki, especially considering he joins the BBM voters himself making him vulnerable to the sheeping point (even though I disagree with it.) And for that matter, why are you voting BBM? You barely say anything about him in that post.

Ooh yeah, I agree on the Mitsuki point actually. It reminds me of the last scum game we played together, and how we (being both mafia) wanted to keep the ITP/cult alive so it could I don't think I was making as much of a case on Mitsuki as I was expressing my distaste for her post/confusion, though.

I don't get what you're trying to say here? Can you explain this a bit better?

@SB- tbh I didn't even see your vote; that last post took me like 2 hours to make. But I think I responded to your case? Scum care about what townies think about other townies because they need townies to mislynch other townies... if townies are finding other townies townie then they're more likely to find the scum scummy. This isn't my scum meta specifically (I brought up my own game bc it was the first thing that came to my head)- it's just something all scum don't want to happen.

Yeah but do you think scum!bearclaw would panic so much over one townie's ED1 read on another? AM/PM was different because there was a way smaller pool of players to drive mislynches in. It's also kind of a weird assumption that your Via read is perfect too because if they turn out to be scum this whole thing goes out the window.

Refa's "why are you complaining about votes on me" question towards BBM feels kind of like a weird form of mudslinging? Like, people can have the same scumreads as you but have bad reasons for it so I'm not sure why Refa thinks this is bad, and I'm pretty sure he knows that this is a thing anyway? His response to BBM's query about his vote is also reads as really defensive to me just based on tone or something? Having trouble wording it tbh.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

Back to this.

[Refa]

Well I don't really know how to explain it but it bothered me. I feel like if he was town and he actually took issue with Weapons vote on me (the only other vote on me at the time) he would have at least reevaluated his lynch priority based on that if not change it.

[Refa]

Also I don't see how my response to BBM was defensive since I was just being honest.