Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Anacybele]

I'm honestly sick of Kanto at this point.

I'd probably buy a DP remake, but I'm just so done with genwunner pandering I won't buy a Kanto remake.

This 100% for me too. I will not buy another Kanto remake, at least not for a long time. I'm really sick of Kanto.

[Azure Sen]

Honestly, I feel like the complaints about XY pandering to Gen 1 Pokemon are way overblown. People were really reaching when they were like "Uh...it has a forest...like Viridian Forest...it's totally pandering!" and to that nature. When I played through XY, I definitely didn't encounter more Kanto Pokemon than I did Pokemon from other regions, because there were like 2 billion Pokemon in those games. Really the only things I remember that could be considered pandering were the starters from Gen 1 being given to you (this is a good thing, it makes getting more Pokemon easier), and Mewtwo appearing by itself in a cave at the end of the game (this is a cool nod that doesn't affect peoples' main game experience anyways).

Plus what was mentioned above about Santalune being identical to Viridian Forest, Gen I got the most Mega Evolutions in XY at 12 and two Gen I Pokemon got two Mega Evolutions for no reason other than pandering, you get the a starter from Gen I as basically a second starter, the Snorlax event is a major call-back to Gen I as is the Mewtwo event, the the Gen I Bird Trio (Moltres, Articuno, Zapdos) being catchable, almost all of the Gen I legendaries being available without trading/events, Sycamore having a battle is a reference to the Professor Oak battle that was planned for but never happened in Gen I...I'll agree that it's not as bad as Sun/Moon, but it's still distinctly there.

This 100% for me too. I will not buy another Kanto remake, at least not for a long time. I'm really sick of Kanto.

Thirded. It's a shame, because I like a lot of Kanto Pokemon, but the over-saturation is ridiculous.

[Emerson]

I'd buy a Kanto remake, if only because I do love the region, and I have a lot of good memories of playing FRLG, and I'm loving my playthrough of VC Blue right now.

But I see no reason to talk about it happening since first off; they already got their remake, and secondly; they already got re-released in the eshop.

Also... why are people saying Sun and Moon has large Gen 1 pandering? Is it because of Red and Blue/Green being in the game? And Samson Oak? Thats about all I can think of for reasons. Oh, and Alola forms, right.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Emerson

[Magical Glace]

I'd buy a Kanto remake, if only because I do love the region, and I have a lot of good memories of playing FRLG, and I'm loving my playthrough of VC Blue right now.

But I see no reason to talk about it happening since first off; they already got their remake, and secondly; they already got re-released in the eshop.

Also... why are people saying Sun and Moon has large Gen 1 pandering? Is it because of Red and Blue/Green being in the game? And Samson Oak? Thats about all I can think of for reasons.

The big one is the Alola forms, which are solely Gen I Pokémon for no good reason beyond pandering to Genwunners.

That is going too far with pandering, they denied like... 570 Pokémon the shot at having Alola forms just because they were introduced later.

There's also the disproportionate amount of Kanto Pokémon in the Dex. There are more Kanto Pokémon than new ones. Sinnoh, Hoenn, and Unova combined is a similar number to the amount of Kanto Pokémon, from what I remember.

[Anacybele]

Also... why are people saying Sun and Moon has large Gen 1 pandering? Is it because of Red and Blue/Green being in the game? And Samson Oak? Thats about all I can think of for reasons. Oh, and Alola forms, right.

You answered your own question, bud. Glac did too.

[Azure Sen]

There's also things like the Nugget Bridge in Malie Garden (which is accurate down to the Pokemon used by the trainers in Gen I), the main character being from Kanto, Gen I Pokemon getting the most exclusive Z-Moves, and the myriad of small references (like the woman in Hau'oli's mall who makes an out of nowhere reference to the Celadon Game Corner).

[Nobody]

I don't mind the gen1 pandering at all even if it does exist

Edited December 10, 2016 by Ninguém

[Shuuda]

I don't mind the gen1 pandering at all even if it does exist

Same here.

In fact, as someone who's been with the games since the beginning, the callbacks tickle me just right.

[Water Mage]

I don't mind the gen1 pandering at all even if it does exist

I have to agree as well.

For some reason, it really doesn't bother me. Maybe because I've been playing Pokemon even before Yellow was released, but those Kanto references really don't bother me.

Hell, I actually find them sort of cool.

[Anacybele]

I've been here since the beginning too. I didn't actually play RBY when they came out, but I did watch the anime, I played the N64 games, and had some of the TCG. I was as familiar with Kanto Pokemon as any player. I guess because I wasn't as familiar with the region, the little references there don't bother me as much, but seeing so many Kanto Pokemon over and over definitely does.

[Water Mage]

There's also things like the Nugget Bridge in Malie Garden (which is accurate down to the Pokemon used by the trainers in Gen I), the main character being from Kanto, Gen I Pokemon getting the most exclusive Z-Moves, and the myriad of small references (like the woman in Hau'oli's mall who makes an out of nowhere reference to the Celadon Game Corner).

Actually that reference isn't really out of nowhere.

It was reference to the fact that there was a switch hidden in the Game Corner's poster.

[PuffPuff]

Ok I think that should mean you should be available around 1 or 2 AM EST, i will probably be awake for that. I can get that Bewear ready for you. I can give you one that is perfect for battle Best IVs in all but Sp.A. I spent a lot more time after that post.

edit: Also, I am chaining dittos so when you are back so i might take a bit to reply if you are here before like 2 AM est

Edit2: Well that is an hour wasted... I forgot to get revives.... My grimer kept learning moves, I should have known he would but I am an idiot... Ditto got lucky, critted him, killed grimer (it had been beaten by a barrage of knockoff and crunches and i thought he'd survive the next hit...). This was followed by me thinking i could handle an imposter ditto meeting my decidueye... I couldn't. Nothing could stop him because it has sword dance and i was wiped... I am dumb. Incredibly so. I am sad.

I have your abras ready.

...Annnnd done! Yeah. They are especially hard to find in the hidden grottos in the fifth generation.

[Zanarkin]

I have your abras ready.

...Annnnd done! Yeah. They are especially hard to find in the hidden grottos in the fifth generation.

I sent you a male Stufful with klutz, but Best IVS in everything but sp.A. I cant remember the female one, but it has fluffy :D. the female one should have good IVs atleast though. In fact I am pretty sure it has 5 Best IVS. I forgot to mark most of them.

Edited December 10, 2016 by SlayerX

[Ema Skye]

I don't mind the gen1 pandering at all even if it does exist

my thoughts too

It's only really pandering if you want it to be.

[Sylphid]

So uh, about how long does it take for eggs to hatch in Poke Pelago?

Also, while I'm not particularly bothered by the amount of Kanto pandering, I would definitely like more balanced representation between the generation references. No Gen II pokemon getting Alolan forms is probably only thing that annoys me a bit, rest I either like or don't care about.

That said, I have no plans to buy a Kanto remake if one appears, but that's more because I'm just generally not in the habit of buying pokemon remakes. That decision was made after playing leafgreen lol.

[Refa]

Plus what was mentioned above about Santalune being identical to Viridian Forest, Gen I got the most Mega Evolutions in XY at 12 and two Gen I Pokemon got two Mega Evolutions for no reason other than pandering, you get the a starter from Gen I as basically a second starter, the Snorlax event is a major call-back to Gen I as is the Mewtwo event, the the Gen I Bird Trio (Moltres, Articuno, Zapdos) being catchable, almost all of the Gen I legendaries being available without trading/events, Sycamore having a battle is a reference to the Professor Oak battle that was planned for but never happened in Gen I...I'll agree that it's not as bad as Sun/Moon, but it's still distinctly there.

A lot of the stuff that you've mentioned are one off events (which means that they aren't a consistent reminder of Gen 1 throughout the game, especially considering that at least two of the things that you've mentioned are locked to the postgame), with the only longstanding issue being that Gen 1 had the most mega evolutions (and even then, this was fixed by the time ORAS came out). It just feels like people just pay attention to the references to the Gen 1 games in particular and complain about the amount of them rather than putting some thought into how much of the game experience they actually affect. At the time that XY came out, I can get why people would be frustrated that more Mega Evolutions weren't from later gens (especially since they were one of the selling points of the game and if you didn't like Gen 1 that much, then you wouldn't be as hyped for it). However, the other issues feel very petty.

Speaking personally here, I'd appreciate more references to Johto and Sinnoh as well (especially because those two generations in particular were relatively lore heavy, which is something that interests me), but I'm not buying the game so that it can reference past Pokemon games at me. I'm buying it for the new stuff, and any winks and nods to past games is just a bonus in my books. As long as any pandering doesn't get in the way of that (which it...somewhat did in SuMo, although honestly there were other culprits that weren't even from Gen 1 like fucking Pelipper), it's not really an issue.

I don't mind the gen1 pandering at all even if it does exist

I appreciate the callbacks but I really wish they let the newer Pokemon stand out more in their own game over the Alolan forms. Probably my biggest issue with the game, honestly.

Also, while I'm not particularly bothered by the amount of Kanto pandering, I would definitely like more balanced representation between the generation references. No Gen II pokemon getting Alolan forms is probably only thing that annoys me a bit, rest I either like or don't care about.

That said, I have no plans to buy a Kanto remake if one appears, but that's more because I'm just generally not in the habit of buying pokemon remakes. That decision was made after playing leafgreen lol.

Yeah, I like the reasoning for why Kanto Pokemon specifically got Alolan forms (basically mirroring the cultural connections between Japan and Hawaii, and how Hawaii had several invasive species imported from...I'm not sure if it was specifically Japan but OTHER REGIONS yeah), but like...there were three more Pokemon games set in PokeJapan. It feels very weird that they just ignored that.

To be fair, LeafGreen and FireRed were the worst of the remakes. People constantly talk about how it's a much more superior option to the originals, but it did little more than transfer the original games to the Gen 3 engine and call it a day (although the new sprites were great, I'll have to admit). It didn't add anything new to the game, like Heart Gold/Soul Silver did. From what I heard, Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire added a lot from their original iterations but didn't have any of the new features that Emerald had (whereas HG/SS had the new features from Crystal), which is a real bummer.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Refa

[Zanarkin]

Also, while I'm not particularly bothered by the amount of Kanto pandering, I would definitely like more balanced representation between the generation references. No Gen II pokemon getting Alolan forms is probably only thing that annoys me a bit, rest I either like or don't care about.

That said, I have no plans to buy a Kanto remake if one appears

That is pretty much my thoughts on it all. I wouldn't want a Kanto remake partly because Kanto seems devoid of activity compared to later games.

I am really hoping on a sinnoh remake though. Specifially a Platinum remake. Make that and you have a golden Gen 7. Specially if you introduce more forms (but like not just gen 1 and patch sun and moon so that sun and moon can interact with new platinum).

Edited December 10, 2016 by SlayerX

[PuffPuff]

I sent you a male Stufful with klutz, but Best IVS in everything but sp.A. I cant remember the female one, but it has fluffy :D. the female one should have good IVs atleast though. In fact I am pretty sure it has 5 Best IVS. I forgot to mark most of them.

Thanks. :D

The Klutz ones will be useful to transfer bad items to your opponent such as the Iron Ball, or flinging it to them without the loss of your speed that the Iron Ball normally gives. :D

Edited December 10, 2016 by PuffPuff

[Refa]

That is pretty much my thoughts on it all. I wouldn't want a Kanto remake partly because Kanto seems devoid of activity compared to later games.

[spoiler=SuMo Ending Spoilers]

Hey man, if a Kanto remake starred Lilie, I'd definitely be for it. Otherwise ehhhhhh do Platinum. My only issue with a Platinum remake is that the game still holds up and you can still play Platinum on the 3DS to transfer Pokemon.

[Samias]

My issues with the ORAS remakes were mostly a lack of updates to the Pokemon used by trainers to match the accelerated EXP gain. Wallace still has unevolved Pokemon and unimpressive choices like Luvdisc and Seaking. The Elite 4 having so many duplicates of the same Pokemon in the first run is really obnoxious too. Glacia's team is downright boring. Most of these issues were ones I had with the original game too, so it was mostly being upset that they were barely updated except to bring in Froslass and Dusknoir in an attempt to make the Elite 4 teams less repetitive. The Hoenn dex in general is quite bad with only 211 Pokemon available, and feels especially barren after completing XY's Pokedex with 455 total.

I think people liked the FRLG and HGSS remakes because they don't feel like they backpedalled on the games you just played. While ORAS certainly did some things better than XY (DexNav, secret bases, Eon Flute flight, not dealing with your 5 pathetic friends), FRLG was rougly equivalent in gameplay value to RS (less endgame content than Emerald, though), and HGSS was an excellent current gen update with Crystal enhancements and Battle Frontier that put it on par with Platinum. In reality ORAS > HGSS > FRLG in conveniences and endgame content but the latter two feel more well balanced in their own gens.

I actually think some of the better sales of ORAS compared to its fellow remakes are attributable to Pokemon Go, actually. It was the most current game when that was a mega hit and there was definitely a sales boost of the games during the summer.

[Anacybele]

It didn't add anything new to the game, like Heart Gold/Soul Silver did.

The Sevii Islands say hi. And I would say they were a bigger and better thing than the Pokeathlon (hurts your hands ugh) or walking Pokemon (meh).

[Quintessence]

I think there's also that Akala island was built by people from Kanto.

I'd be up for a Kanto remake but I think it's too much for now, other gens need new airs.

[Water Mage]

My issues with the ORAS remakes were mostly a lack of updates to the Pokemon used by trainers to match the accelerated EXP gain. Wallace still has unevolved Pokemon and unimpressive choices like Luvdisc and Seaking. The Elite 4 having so many duplicates of the same Pokemon in the first run is really obnoxious too. Glacia's team is downright boring. Most of these issues were ones I had with the original game too, so it was mostly being upset that they were barely updated except to bring in Froslass and Dusknoir in an attempt to make the Elite 4 teams less repetitive. The Hoenn dex in general is quite bad with only 211 Pokemon available, and feels especially barren after completing XY's Pokedex with 455 total.

Honestly, I preferred ORAS's smaller Dex compared to Kalos's Dex. The large number of Pokemon felt rather overwhelming actually.

I think people liked the FRLG and HGSS remakes because they don't feel like they backpedalled on the games you just played. While ORAS certainly did some things better than XY (DexNav, secret bases, Eon Flute flight, not dealing with your 5 pathetic friends), FRLG was rougly equivalent in gameplay value to RS (less endgame content than Emerald, though), and HGSS was an excellent current gen update with Crystal enhancements and Battle Frontier that put it on par with Platinum. In reality ORAS > HGSS > FRLG in conveniences and endgame content but the latter two feel more well balanced in their own gens.

To be fair, the Gen 1 and Gen 2 games were very simple, so any remake would be well recieved.

ORAS was the first time they remake games that weren't as "primitive" for a lack of a better word. So it's probably why it felt it backpedalled in some parts.

I think there's also that Akala island was built by people from Kanto.

I'd be up for a Kanto remake but I think it's too much for now, other gens need new airs.

Where it is said that? What I do remember is a NPC speaking that the reason there are many Kanto Pokemon is because Kanto immigrants.

But there is a city in Alola that was built from people from another region.

It's Malie City, and it was built by Jotho immigrants I believe.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Water Mage

[Nobody]

I loved both RSE and XY (and i'm also really liking Sun), but ORAS was a huge disappointment for me. Like, I prefer Emerald to it and it's not even close. I don't know, its Hoenn felt really lifeless, I thought the post game content wasn't good (I mean, I loved having all these legendaries, but 90% of them were spread up in the sky), and a lot of the main game places felt WORSE the they were in the original (new mauville and the sky pillar come to mind). Being able to fly in the sky also, and I legitimately don't know why, made the game worse for me. I just disliked it, I think it made everything look small and meaningless? I also felt like the gym leaders felt more generic and the story more boring than the original. It's probably my least favorite main series pokemon game, even though emerald was my favorite. Maybe I feel this way because, since the gen III games were my favorite, I expected more, but I doubt it. I really liked FRLG and also like HGSS quite more than GSC. I just think nintendo was dumb of not including all the advancements of Emerald in it and I also felt they dumbed it down compared to RS, and I see myself coming back to Emerald more often than to ORAS, unless it's to get a specific pokemon to tranfer to Sun (just like I spent 4 hours today reseting for a Landorus with good stats... Game felt as unappealing as ever).

Edited December 10, 2016 by Ninguém

[Magical Glace]

XY's PokéDex is much too big, in my opinion, particularly since the gen had only 72 new Pokémon, they composed only 15.75% of the Kalos regional Pokédex, poor things...

Speaking of the Dex, I was bored, so I counted up how much from each Gen is in the Alola Dex and ran some calcs with that.

Totals	Number	% of gen's Pokémon included	% of Alola's Pokédex
Kanto	86	56.95%	                        28.48%
Johto	30	30.00%	                        9.93%
Hoenn	33	24.44%	                        10.93%
Sinnoh	29	27.10%	                        9.60%
Unova	28	17.95%	                        9.27%
Kalos	14	19.44%	                        4.64%
Alola	81	100.00%	                        26.82%

...Yeah, too many Gen I Pokémon... Edited December 10, 2016 by Glaceon Mage