Kirby's Return to Mafia Land - Game Over

[Blitz]

Cam- Town pick, giving his scumread a useless role.

wait, I don't get it, how is Cam's a town pick, Ascetic on scum prevents tracker from tracking scum and only helps scum?

also, this is just to start up discussion, I will make a real post hopefully soon ish... (probably will take me a while)

[Sunwoo]

I realize that we're allowed to have night talk right now. I'm just really tired because I taught three classes today and then went to a 2-hour class right afterwards, so if I don't have to say much that's why.

So, since the time of my last post and the end of D1, the biggest thing that stands out to me is kirsche's insistence that my vote on Izuhark is a placeholder. Honestly, it's scummy. Never mind that he's sounding like an asshole by acting like he knows my thought process better than I do to say that he's right and I'm wrong in that it's a placeholder. But he's discrediting my vote and reasons by saying that I'm only putting it there because I have no better reads. He's ignoring the case and saying it doesn't count and that my vote isn't really because I actually think Izuhark is scummy, and it's basically misrep.

I'm having a hard time remembering Mitsuki's reads and reasonings for reads. I'm going to do an ISO check of her content when I am more awake, but for some reason I am just not finding her very memorable although I feel like she posted quite a bit on D1.

Also, while I don't feel like Randa's interactions with Freyjadour in itself feels scummy, I didn't realize until now that Randa doesn't seem to have very coherent scum reads. I can't even tell what his scum reads are, or if he had any other than Freyjadur on D1. It is certainly questionable and worth keeping an eye on.

[Refa]

wait, I don't get it, how is Cam's a town pick, Ascetic on scum prevents tracker from tracking scum and only helps scum?

lmao i just realized that ascetic could be used for that

i'd put it as a scum pick then and ask cam to explain why he gave his scumread ascetic (here's looking at you, kid)

[CT075]

Cam- Town pick, giving his scumread a useless role.

this is wrong; i'll get to it in a moment.

i want everybody to justify their role choice right now. you don't need to write an essay, but please let us know what your thought process was. i will conjure up a dayvig and shoot you next phase if you don't do it in your next post.

i'll start - ascetic is, as was established in kirby 1, an extremely powerful scum role and was afraid someone was going to give it away haphazardly. i read through the thread and decided that kirsche was being somewhat confrontational; moreso than he usually is as scum. in particular i was reading back to reclass forever and a half ago (he was scum) and he seemed different then, so at the time he was my strongest townread.

[CT075]

also a reminder that i will be away for the better part of the next 48 hours; if i don't respond to something by morning i probably won't be able to before end of the phase. or, if recent nightkill trends hold fast, end of the game

[Refa]

Oh, fair enough then. I gave the BPV role to SB over people I was more sure were town because it basically guarantees that he's going to survive the game and he's the one person who's a combination of active, influential, easy to talk to, and townie enough for me to pick. Didn't really put much thought into which role I was giving other than I didn't want another player to make someone that I didn't trust impervious to kills.

[Blitz]

this is wrong; i'll get to it in a moment.

i want everybody to justify their role choice right now. you don't need to write an essay, but please let us know what your thought process was. i will conjure up a dayvig and shoot you next phase if you don't do it in your next post.

i'll start - ascetic is, as was established in kirby 1, an extremely powerful scum role and was afraid someone was going to give it away haphazardly. i read through the thread and decided that kirsche was being somewhat confrontational; moreso than he usually is as scum. in particular i was reading back to reclass forever and a half ago (he was scum) and he seemed different then, so at the time he was my strongest townread.

Kirsche's recent games showed confrontational has nothing to do with his alignment and has more to do with the cases he presents (which I do admit are very hard for me to figure out still), so, I don't exactly agree with you. At the point when you gave Kirsche the Ascetic role, who else was on your townie list and why did you not pick him over Kirsche?

I picked Shin for dayvig, because I think Proto is town and Shin has proven that he is very good at shooting down the evil that needs shooting! (if Proto were in instead, I would give him a mystery role)

[Blitz]

Blitz, why did you ask Izhuark that question? I'm curious.

It is exactly why you think (except, I am not his scumbuddy, lol). I wanted to give him some space to make a less pressurized post and he does better when asked questions, IMO. I was hoping he would put up more content.

i don't like this; it's either mod-meta (at best) or a slip (at worst).

what of it being mod meta?

[CT075]

pre-edit: god the textboxes don't wrap text anymore if you're not on rich text mode; this is actually awful to try to mafuiya with

(and to make Prims laugh even more, I bet that the setup is the one with two scum teams).

can you talk more about the associative reads you had? i'm not sure how much i buy it - it just seems like way too much of a stretch.

fwiw i think there's a 33% chance of 11/4, a 33% chance of 11/3/1, a 33% chance of 11/2/2 and a 1% chance of something exotic

SB- Wait fuck, I should have given Cam the BPV instead so he could make it to endgame. Ugh, I hate myself now.

i'm policy vigging you every time i get the chance now

Cam[snip]'s such a lazy fuck

sounds about right

Blitz- Is as town as SPOILERS is scum. I don't think he's actually done anything but I have a good feeling!

Proto- Gut read based on his reactions to Kirsche's case on him because he didn't actually do much of anything throughout this day phase.

i guess these are about as legit as gutreads get but like have either of these people actually done anything?

SCUM

Randa- Is scum. I don't remember anything he's done throughout the entire game despite him having said so much. Would turbolynch tomorrow.

i am on board

Kirsche- Voted Freyjadour over Boron despite having a much stronger read on Boron (which he admitted himself). It's not even like his vote was good for consolidation either, considering it was the second one on the wagon.

this is the one i would argue with (in case you didn't guess from my last post); scum!kirsche tends to hedge a lot more but in this case i feel like kirsche has been a lot more... i guess forceful? he seems much more convinced of himself this game compared to Reclass and is going out of his way to antagonize otherwise seemingly high-standing players Boron and Mitsuki. I guess Mitsuki not so much, but at the time the vibe I got from players towards her was that they liked her. Maybe kirsche is just sexist and thought that Freyja was named Ms. Bunch and decided he had to vote him idk.

The Freyja vote wasn't that far-fetched; from where I saw him posting it wouldn't surprise me if he decided that he was in the minority on his boron opinion and that his vote would be more productive on a secondary scumread. Since like, did he post since he said that? he had like half a day's worth of activity and vanished. FWIW I also don't feel like his case on Boron is particularly strong anyway (but hey im shit what do i know), whereas his Bunch case was backed pretty well.

Do you think he was cherry-picking?

[CT075]

blitz that's not an explanation of your role choice

[CT075]

to answer your question, though, the only other person i considered giving ascetic to was boron, whom i was having second thoughts about at the time. in hindsight that might have been a better decision but i will defend the decision i made (and kirsche himself) pretty hard. i would have given it to refa had he been an option, but he wasn't.

[CT075]

what of it being mod meta?

how would you know that prims told the scumteam that everyone is kirby

i have absolutely no idea whether prims would have told the scumteam something like that and neither should you

[CT075]

blitz that's not an explanation of your role choice

i can't read ignore this

[CT075]

Kirsche's recent games showed confrontational has nothing to do with his alignment and has more to do with the cases he presents (which I do admit are very hard for me to figure out still), so, I don't exactly agree with you.

can you enlighten me to which games show this; i try not to use meta too much when i read so i don't usually bother doing my research

[Blitz]

blitz that's not an explanation of your role choice

I don't get what you mean then....

how would you know that prims told the scumteam that everyone is kirby

i have absolutely no idea whether prims would have told the scumteam something like that and neither should you

have you ever played a Prims game as scum?

unless I am mistaking Prims for someone else, he would tell the scumteam some useful info on what not to claim and what would be safe to claim, so that scumteam won't screw themselves over for some silly flavor reasons

[Blitz]

Rhythm and Reclass where Kirsche was scum

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55190

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48810

[CT075]

the most i've seen is "you know that xxx is not in this game" so you have a safeclaim; this isn't quite the same thing. it's difficult to get screwed by flavor because unless you literally claim like meta knight or something (for what it's worth the last kirby game all of the scumteam were straight villains like marx) the only actual ally character is kirby.

regardless, this argument is exactly it - neither of us know what prims would tell the scumteam, and it's counterproductive to argue under one assumption or another

[CT075]

blitz, i played in reclass; he was not this confrontational then

[CT075]

either way i'm sleeping now; don't expect me back before phase end.

[Blitz]

blitz, i played in reclass; he was not this confrontational then

he was with me and I still don't get what you mean by you don't understand my pick

[CT075]

i read too fast and didn't see it you're fine

[Refa]

Wait, scum get actual characters? This is bullshit.

[Refa]

(I'll make an actual response to your points later Cam, I'm in a IDGAF about mafia mode right now)

[Blitz]

There is actually much discussion. I should join

how many mafia games have you played before?

Izhuark, don't just give up, damn. You can vote Freyjadour and your wagons will at least be tied.

@Refa, this kinda makes me think Mitsuki and Izhuark are not on the same team? (well, could be camouflaging attempt though)

also, atm, I am thinking scumteam is probably 3 members and we have an SK, well, I guess we will know after tonight on whether we have the 4 man team or not

Actually, I'm tired. I'll try to make a post in the morning but it won't be very detailed. I'll make a post in 18-19 hours at the latest.

what is the post you have been trying to make?

@Izhuark, what are your thoughts about the game now?

[Sunwoo]

I gave Elie Fire partly because of what I was working with, and partly because Elie had missed out a lot on this day phase, and if this became a pattern then it'd be helpful for him to have insomniac so that he can at least get some thoughts out if he's around during the night phase.