Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Tybrosion]

3 minutes ago, r_n said:

I can see him winning by the multiplier but do you really think gaius had that much fewer people backing him

How much less support Gaius had doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is, Gaius wouldn't have won against Leo if the multiplier wasn't there at all and that's why people like me and Rezzy want the damn thing dead. Leo always out-gained him in every non-multiplier hour.

You can see for yourself here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bxAC7aTAl7ZmrM4dQX-5jMY1cihagCtieLquruI1bPs/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true#

[r_n]

3 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

How much less support Gaius had doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is, Gaius wouldn't have won against Leo if the multiplier wasn't there at all and that's why people like me and Rezzy want the damn thing dead. Leo always out-gained him in every non-multiplier hour.

You can see for yourself here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bxAC7aTAl7ZmrM4dQX-5jMY1cihagCtieLquruI1bPs/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true#

Ah I see, thank you. Should have thought that the community would track this so thoroughly.

 

 

Honestly I still like the multiplier for this very reason. In theory, anyway. It keeps it lively and not "oh, the clear favorite completely ran away with it again, big surprise". Not that this doesn't continue to happen. Gaius got nothing but multipliers in the final round and could not stand to Corrin, but at least it wasn't Lucina had 10 billion more points than Ephraim or Camilla getting 21 billion more. 

[Tybrosion]

14 minutes ago, r_n said:

Honestly I still like the multiplier for this very reason. In theory, anyway. It keeps it lively and not "oh, the clear favorite completely ran away with it again, big surprise". Not that this doesn't continue to happen. Gaius got nothing but multipliers in the final round and could not stand to Corrin, but at least it wasn't Lucina had 10 billion more points than Ephraim or Camilla getting 21 billion more. 

Except the reality is that, at the very least, Gaius got his ass kicked just as badly in the finals as Ephraim and Minerva did. Of course, it wasn't reflected in the actual score thanks to the multiplier but Gaius more often than not couldn't even get 100k in a hour while Corrin never got less than 450k in a hour. Without the multiplier, the final score would actually look something like this (I just multiplied the average non-multiplier hour hourly gain (151,140,975 for Gaius and 601,080,853 for Corrin) by 47 for both teams to get these numbers): 28,250,800,091 to 7,103,625,825.

[r_n]

1 minute ago, Tybrosion said:

Except the reality is that, at the very least, Gaius got his ass kicked just as badly in the finals as Ephraim and Minerva did. Of course, it wasn't reflected in the actual score thanks to the multiplier but Gaius more often than not couldn't even get 100k in a hour while Corrin never got less than 450k in a hour. Without the multiplier, the final score would actually look something like this (I just multiplied the average non-multiplier hour hourly gain (151,140,975 for Gaius and 601,080,853 for Corrin) by 47 for both teams to get these numbers): 28,250,800,091 to 7,103,625,825.

Sure but my point is with the multiplier there's hope for a come from behind win. It's meaningless hope thus far, but it COULD have affected things more.

 

 

 

Also geeze, 21 billion...crazy.

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, r_n said:

Gaius got nothing but multipliers in the final round and could not stand to Corrin, but at least it wasn't Lucina had 10 billion more points than Ephraim or Camilla getting 21 billion more. 

For the record, if you divide out the multipliers, all three of those matches were about the same level of blow-out.

Lucina beat Ephraim by a factor of 4.04.
Camilla beat Minerva by a factor of 4.23.
Corrin beat Gaius by a factor of 3.98.

For comparison, Tharja beat Robin by a factor of 1.30, and Elise beat Priscilla by a factor of 1.45.

The absolute difference in score between Camilla and Minerva is obviously going to be greater than the absolute difference in score between Lucina and Ephraim because there were significantly more flags available for that Voting Gauntlet.

[r_n]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

For the record, if you divide out the multipliers, all three of those matches were about the same level of blow-out.

Lucina beat Ephraim by a factor of 4.04.
Camilla beat Minerva by a factor of 4.23.
Corrin beat Gaius by a factor of 3.98.

For comparison, Tharja beat Robin by a factor of 1.30, and Elise beat Priscilla by a factor of 1.45.

The absolute difference in score between Camilla and Minerva is obviously going to be greater than the absolute difference in score between Lucina and Ephraim because there were significantly more flags available for that Voting Gauntlet.

Thank you for the break down. I had forgotten the flag issue in the first gauntlet, too. Tharja & Robin's true scores (ish) are surprisingly close all things considered.

[Quintessence]

Did we even get bonus orbs and feathers for the previous gauntlets? The 5k feathers and the 10 orbs.

[r_n]

2 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

Did we even get bonus orbs and feathers for the previous gauntlets? The 5k feathers and the 10 orbs.

No, they stopped doing that on the...third? Gauntlet I believe. 

[Tybrosion]

1 minute ago, Quintessence said:

Did we even get bonus orbs and feathers for the previous gauntlets? The 5k feathers and the 10 orbs.

There are no longer any rewards for hitting 10 billion points starting with last gauntlet. It was also Universal Crystals that they gave out alongside the Orbs, not feathers.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

They do give you four orbs from quests for each round, and that makes for 12 orbs. But since daily orbs were shut off in the last gauntlet, you could also argue those orbs are meant to replace those, not the bonus 10 they used to do. Either way, it's much appreciated.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, r_n said:

Honestly I still like the multiplier for this very reason. In theory, anyway. It keeps it lively and not "oh, the clear favorite completely ran away with it again, big surprise". Not that this doesn't continue to happen. Gaius got nothing but multipliers in the final round and could not stand to Corrin, but at least it wasn't Lucina had 10 billion more points than Ephraim or Camilla getting 21 billion more. 

I've lost pretty much every Gauntlet, but it didn't bother me, because it was fair.  If the other team has more supporters, they should win.  Here, I felt cheated, because Leo genuinely had more support but lost because Gaius got the multiplier at the right time.  And you can't argue that there's any real strategy involved to it, because you can't coordinate the voting of thousands of people with no way to communicate.  And it actually discourages people from playing, since if you have the lead, you don't want to get too far ahead and give the other team the multiplier, and if you're behind, you want to tank the score so you can get the multiplier.

The current system is doubly unfair, because the underdog gets an easier time ranking overall, and thus more feathers, and they also have a chance at stealing away the victory, getting the victory feathers as well.  So the team with more supporters will get less feathers assuredly from ranking and might very well be cheated out of victory, too.

[Kaden]

5 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

@Kaden

I couldn't care less if he's overshadowed by Reinhardt and the others. I have no interest in CYL and would be much, much more interested in Bruno joining me :) 

That being said, if one of the CYL units was offered for free, I wouldn't say no, either. I never say no to free units :D 

His injured art is glorious and I like his voice too.

Also, Bruno being playable means that whenever Conrad is released, Mask Emblem would be pretty viable; Bruno (mage), Conrad (lance), Legion (axe), and masked Marth (sword). What's better is that Bruno could run Blarblade to destroy everything, Conrad I guess could run Ridersbane to also counter cavalry units while keeping a high MT weapon or he could use Brave Lance or Firesweep Lance depending on his stats, Legion is, well, Legion so he could do Brave Axe things, and masked Marth could also run a Falchion-Renewal build for healing if needed. Unfortunately, I think all of them die to Reinhardt, buuuuut that's our Reinhardt! Isn't he silly? :p

5 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

You're forgetting about the next Tempest (the last datamine confirmed one for September) and, by proxy, whatever character that one will give us. There's also no telling at this point if the mid-September banner will even have Chapter 13 accompany it or whether Bruno will even become playable in that chapter to begin with.

Yeah, I know. I'm just making fun of the CYL unit speculation and how we might be able to get one of them free. It's like, "Oh, you'll get a free unit, but it won't be who you think it will be."

Would be even funnier if they not only make Bruno playable, but pre-Bruno Zacharias Bruno playable as a lance unit. He'll just explain it as him switching weapons when needed and that if you see two of him in the castle, then you must be tired, so take a break.

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

If we get Bruno, so help me I'm slapping Desperation and Defiant Speed on him.

Oh, so you're trying to keep him in the red, aren't you? Not complaining and I doubt anyone would. :p

5 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Having 35 Speed and Access to Blarblade and Horse Buffs would be great.  The Res drop hurts a little, but 3 extra speed gives far more killing power than 1 Attack compared to Ursula. Olwen might be a bit better with proper nature, but she's 5* exclusive, so not everybody has her.

It is, but with how strong -blade tomes and movement-based buffs are and how easy it is to make a cavalry team, if those are Bruno's stats, then he's kind of stuck only being able to do one thing and that's be an offensive (Blarblade) mage. It's not optimal, but Olwen and Ursula can tank mages with their higher resistance while Bruno's low HP and mixed defense kind of makes it seem iffy like he could die to anything, especially if you give him L&D3 -- hello, 34 HP, 17 Def, and 20 Res -- which also makes using his Valaskjalf not that great compared to Olwen using Dire Thunder for quad shenanigans or Ursula having niche uses on singleplayer maps with Blarwolf while having Death Blow to make up for the MT difference.

Bruno's stats to me kind of say Lon'qu, but if he was a cavalry mage, so he has to lose ~14 stats points which unfortunately for Bruno, was mostly HP. The weird thing about Leo, Reinhardt, and kind of Cecilia is for cavalry mages, they have decent HP. With 7 points from making Bruno's defense and resistance both 20, Bruno could have 41 HP which with 35 speed, could make it really difficult to ORKO him without a Brave or anti-cavalry weapon. 61 physical or magical to one-shot him or 41x2 physical or magical to double him compared to my estimate of Bruno's stats giving him 56 physical or 59 magical to one-shot and 39x2 physical or 42x2 magical to double him. Actually, thinking about it now, Bruno's stat spread is more like Setsuna's where both only have one high stat and average to below-average other stats instead of two high stats like most characters.

Setsuna has 37 HP, 28 Atk, 37 Spd, 22 Def, and 23 Res. My estimate for Bruno is 34 HP, 28 Atk, 37 Spd, 22 Def, and 25 Res. Wow, that's scary... Setsuna has 147 BST. Take off 3 from her HP and you'd have a ranged cavalry's BST of 144. Now, take 2 from speed and slap it onto resistance and you have Bruno's estimated stats.

On the other hand, Bruno with 41 HP, 28 Atk, 35 Spd, 20 Def, and 20 Res would be pretty sweet. Cavalry mage Gaius or Lon'qu, but with access to -blade tomes and cavalry buffs.

I mean, the alternative is dumping some of his HP, defense, or resistance for attack, but they're not going to let him, a possible free story unit, have like 32 attack and 35 speed knowing how strong -blade tomes are and that the only cavalry mage who can get close enough to that is +Atk Olwen and she's a 5* unit. Summer F!Corrin has 31 attack and 34 speed, but she's a flier and unlike cavalry units, fliers, especially ones with flier buffs and that are mages, are harder to get. The developers certainly haven't been giving cavalry units like candy to us.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Kaden

[Cute Chao]

Just now, Kaden said:

His injured art is glorious and I like his voice too.

Also, Bruno being playable means that whenever Conrad is released, Mask Emblem would be pretty viable; Bruno (mage), Conrad (lance), Legion (axe), and masked Marth (sword). What's better is that Bruno could run Blarblade to destroy everything, Conrad I guess could run Ridersbane to also counter cavalry units while keeping a high MT weapon or he could use Brave Lance or Firesweep Lance depending on his stats, Legion is, well, Legion so he could do Brave Axe things, and masked Marth could also run a Falchion-Renewal build for healing if needed. Unfortunately, I think all of them die to Reinhardt, buuuuut that's our Reinhardt! Isn't he silly? :p

Injured art. I hadn't noticed his injured art... Ahem... Nope, not at all... xD

I do like his voice. I like his design in general, to be honest. I do also quite like Veronica's, so I hope we get both, but I'd like to get him first because he still seems somehow less likely to become playable than her for some reason. Don't ask me my logic there. I have none lol

Hmmmmm... Masked Emblem would be pretty cool. Maybe they could randomly give Gerome a sword (hey, why not?) and I could have an all guys Masked Emblem xD (Nope, still not counting 'Marth'). 

And that's our Reinhardt :D Silly, lovable, and oh so amazing at destroying things. One of these days, I will have to think up a new tactic for Tempest other than point Reinhardt and go... but my gosh are his antics fun :D 

[mcsilas]

16 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Injured art. I hadn't noticed his injured art... Ahem... Nope, not at all... xD

I do like his voice. I like his design in general, to be honest. I do also quite like Veronica's, so I hope we get both, but I'd like to get him first because he still seems somehow less likely to become playable than her for some reason. Don't ask me my logic there. I have none lol

Hmmmmm... Masked Emblem would be pretty cool. Maybe they could randomly give Gerome a sword (hey, why not?) and I could have an all guys Masked Emblem xD (Nope, still not counting 'Marth'). 

And that's our Reinhardt :D Silly, lovable, and oh so amazing at destroying things. One of these days, I will have to think up a new tactic for Tempest other than point Reinhardt and go... but my gosh are his antics fun :D 

Veronica would be neat as a unit- green defensive mage can be pretty annoying (shudders at memories of first TT).

Panic tome > Legion's Axe.

[Cute Chao]

2 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Veronica would be neat as a unit- green defensive mage can be pretty annoying (shudders at memories of first TT).

Panic tome > Legion's Axe.

They become less annoying with a red tome and green tomebreaker, I quickly found during the first ever TT. I think green tomed Sanaki became my most beloved character temporarily xD

[mcsilas]

Just now, Cute Chao said:

They become less annoying with a red tome and green tomebreaker, I quickly found during the first ever TT. I think green tomed Sanaki became my most beloved character temporarily xD

Yeah when I had Sanaki, she just pretty much shot down Veronica (unless she had her special charged)

Was still an annoying map though, especially with the ranged cavalry.

But yeah, Veronica would pretty much be a better Boey, and physicalyl defensive Green mage (with actual offense) is an interesting role

[Quintessence]

Actually Defiant Atk or Fury Bruno would be pretty nice with Desperation and Vantage built-in. Horse buffs are everything you need!

[Kaden]

@Cute Chao, Bruno's voiced by T. Axelrod which means he shares the same voice actor as Cain and Navarre. Personally, I like all of Axelrod's performances, so it would be nice to poke Bruno and hear him talk.

Considering some of the FE games let you get enemy units as bonus units and some of them join you for whatever reason like Duessel, Lorenz, and Vaida and besides FE Heroes being a gacha game, Bruno and Veronica would make sense as playable units. At the same time, no guarantees and we're likely to get Bruno as he is likely to die because Loki and Veronica drop in and kill him before he reveals anything in chapter 13. Or chapter 13 turns out to be a flashback chapter where he get Zachiarias and the last chapter takes place after 12-5 revealing who Zachiarias actually is.

Anyway, checked with KageroChart and had Bruno as a custom character compared to neutral Olwen and Ursula all running Blarblade+, L&D3, and Desperation and with a Hone Cavalry buff. A bit wonky since Bruno wouldn't actually be counted as a character.

Spoiler

Against everyone with their default skills and at full HP, Bruno's low HP and cruddy mixed defense shows as he gets 147 wins, 10 losses, and 7 draws while both Olwen and Ursula get 154 wins, 2 losses, and 8 draws.

In Desperation range, Bruno would get 155 wins, 2 losses, and 7 draws, the same as Olwen and Ursula if they were in Desperation range.

Against everyone with Fury 3, Bruno's higher speed gives him the advantage to Ursula where he gets 145 wins, 9 losses, and 10 draws to Ursula's 142 wins, 6 losses, and 16 draws. Olwen beats them both with 147 wins, 6 losses, and 11 draws.

In Desperation range and against everyone with Fury 3, Bruno gets 151 wins, 4 losses, and 9 draws; Olwen gets 150 wins, 4 losses, and 10 draws; and Ursula gets 145 wins, 5 losses, and 14 draws.

Anyway, Bruno really wants to be half-naked in Desperation range otherwise, he's not as good as neutral Olwen or Ursula if nobody has Fury 3 and around their range if people have Fury 3. In Desperation range, he matches them or is slightly better, especially Ursula if everyone has Fury 3. The problem I see with this is how do you get Bruno to Desperation range without him dying. He needs to he at least at 25 HP which with 34 HP and 17 defense and 20 resistance doesn't seem like an easy thing to do.

Also, neutral Reinhardt with just Death Blow 3, Lancebreaker 3, and a Hone Cavalry buff gets 140 wins, 6 losses, and 18 draws against vanilla units and 133 wins, 8 losses, and 23 draws against Fury 3 units. "-blade tomes are overrated." - Reinhardt, 2017

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Kaden

[Cute Chao]

Just now, Kaden said:

@Cute Chao, Bruno's voiced by T. Axelrod which means he shares the same voice actor as Cain and Navarre. Personally, I like all of Axelrod's performances, so it would be nice to poke Bruno and hear him talk.

Considering some of the FE games let you get enemy units as bonus units and some of them join you for whatever reason like Duessel, Lorenz, and Vaida and besides FE Heroes being a gacha game, Bruno and Veronica would make sense as playable units. At the same time, no guarantees and we're likely to get Bruno as he is likely to die because Loki and Veronica drop in and kill him before he reveals anything in chapter 13. Or chapter 13 turns out to be a flashback chapter where he get Zachiarias and the last chapter takes place after 12-5 revealing who Zachiarias actually is.

 

I think that's my fear. I doubt they will kill off Veronica so if they decide someone has to die, Bruno is the most likely, especially in the situation that you mentioned. It would annoy me royally if he died, so I keep hoping he becomes playable so I can be confident he won't ^.^

[Kaden]

Just now, Cute Chao said:

I think that's my fear. I doubt they will kill off Veronica so if they decide someone has to die, Bruno is the most likely, especially in the situation that you mentioned. It would annoy me royally if he died, so I keep hoping he becomes playable so I can be confident he won't ^.^

Yeah, it would be annoying. "Here's a perfectly usable character. Oops, he's dead because plot. Here, have dagger-using Kliff with 18 base attack and 49 HP as compensation. Toodles!"

I haven't gotten far enough in Awakening (despite owning the game for several years), but I know one boss dies and you can actually get him as a bonus unit who's from an alternate timeline. Actually, aren't there two of them who die and you can get them as bonus units? Not saying anything because some people get really mad at spoilers even if they're from old(er) games. It would just be weird, though, and kind of lame if Bruno dies, but he becomes playable and he's totally aware he's from an alternate Askran kingdom.

Still, Bruno could technically die... Y'know, like Bruno has died, but *insert name here* has been born! The hilarity because if he is Zacharias, then Bruno killed Zach only to kill Bruno to become Zach again.

[Othin]

I don't think they have to kill off anyone. Heroes' story is hacky enough that they can make it do whatever they want, and I'm sure they know that people have a lot of hopes for Bruno and Veronica to eventually become playable just like every other character. I'm sure they'll deliver eventually; it just could take a while.

Hell, I'm guessing they'll even find a way to shoehorn in bigger villains, like Loki. (Probably as a red dragon.)

[Cute Chao]

2 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Yeah, it would be annoying. "Here's a perfectly usable character. Oops, he's dead because plot. Here, have dagger-using Kliff with 18 base attack and 49 HP as compensation. Toodles!"

I haven't gotten far enough in Awakening (despite owning the game for several years), but I know one boss dies and you can actually get him as a bonus unit who's from an alternate timeline. Actually, aren't there two of them who die and you can get them as bonus units? Not saying anything because some people get really mad at spoilers even if they're from old(er) games. It would just be weird, though, and kind of lame if Bruno dies, but he becomes playable and he's totally aware he's from an alternate Askran kingdom.

Still, Bruno could technically die... Y'know, like Bruno has died, but *insert name here* has been born! The hilarity because if he is Zacharias, then Bruno killed Zach only to kill Bruno to become Zach again.

Yup, if he does die, my hope would be they either pull a Michalis and make it so he actually survives somehow, bring back an alt version when Veronica becomes good (I guess like the various bonus characters)... or do the last one so he becomes Zach again... although I'd rather a blue tome than a lance ^.^

@Othin

I hope so. I've found so many things seem to shoehorn death in to try and make stories seem better or more emotional, but when it's done badly, it just comes across as annoying and manipulative -.-

Edited August 28, 2017 by Cute Chao

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Yeah, it would be annoying. "Here's a perfectly usable character. Oops, he's dead because plot. Here, have dagger-using Kliff with 18 base attack and 49 HP as compensation. Toodles!"

I haven't gotten far enough in Awakening (despite owning the game for several years), but I know one boss dies and you can actually get him as a bonus unit who's from an alternate timeline. Actually, aren't there two of them who die and you can get them as bonus units? Not saying anything because some people get really mad at spoilers even if they're from old(er) games. It would just be weird, though, and kind of lame if Bruno dies, but he becomes playable and he's totally aware he's from an alternate Askran kingdom.

Still, Bruno could technically die... Y'know, like Bruno has died, but *insert name here* has been born! The hilarity because if he is Zacharias, then Bruno killed Zach only to kill Bruno to become Zach again.

 

 

Spoiler

Oh, the postgame characters!  There's one from an alternate dimension, one that apparently didn't die, one that I can't figure out WTF went on, one that was resurrected, and one that miraculously came out unscathed after the ass-whooping my army laid down.  I think that's all of them. . .

 

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Yeah, it would be annoying. "Here's a perfectly usable character. Oops, he's dead because plot. Here, have dagger-using Kliff with 18 base attack and 49 HP as compensation. Toodles!"

I haven't gotten far enough in Awakening (despite owning the game for several years), but I know one boss dies and you can actually get him as a bonus unit who's from an alternate timeline. Actually, aren't there two of them who die and you can get them as bonus units? Not saying anything because some people get really mad at spoilers even if they're from old(er) games. It would just be weird, though, and kind of lame if Bruno dies, but he becomes playable and he's totally aware he's from an alternate Askran kingdom.

Still, Bruno could technically die... Y'know, like Bruno has died, but *insert name here* has been born! The hilarity because if he is Zacharias, then Bruno killed Zach only to kill Bruno to become Zach again.

Awakening has four bosses who seemingly die during the main story and then can be recruited as bonus units through Paralogues. One is from an alternate timeline, one seems to have come back from the dead somehow, and as far as I remember, the other two just turn out to have survived their battles with no real explanation given.

[Rezzy]

22 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Yeah when I had Sanaki, she just pretty much shot down Veronica (unless she had her special charged)

Was still an annoying map though, especially with the ranged cavalry.

But yeah, Veronica would pretty much be a better Boey, and physicalyl defensive Green mage (with actual offense) is an interesting role

"When" you had Sanaki?  Did you end her rightly?

14 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I think that's my fear. I doubt they will kill off Veronica so if they decide someone has to die, Bruno is the most likely, especially in the situation that you mentioned. It would annoy me royally if he died, so I keep hoping he becomes playable so I can be confident he won't ^.^

I don't know if they'd perma-kill anybody in Heroes.  This story seems more Saturday-Morning-Cartoony than normal Fire Emblem

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

 

 

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Oh, the postgame characters!  There's one from an alternate dimension, one that apparently didn't die, one that I can't figure out WTF went on, one that was resurrected, and one that miraculously came out unscathed after the ass-whooping my army laid down.  I think that's all of them. . .

 

Perish the thought.