MaskedAmpharos Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Sire said: As for the Inherit Skill system, I love customizing units and theorycrafting builds, so thus I feel the same about the new feature. I understand the concerns of "BS" builds and the widening gap between F2P players versus paying players. Yes, getting desired skills will suck to the RNG nature of the Gachapon model, especially if said skill is only found on rare units (say Aether and Galeforce, if transferable). However, thinking of this from a casual standpoint makes me very happy as it may be possible to transform some of my favorite units (Selena, Arthur, Cherche, Mattew, etc.) into something that can compete with the higher tier ones. At the end of the day, the meta will shift to focus more on raw stats, mobility, and unique weapons/skills instead of individual characters and their starting loadout. There will always be an OP build, like the current prevalence of Takumi. All that needs to be done is to build counters, and for IS to provide the tools to build these counters. For example, Vantage becomes worthless if the player is more focused on retaliating on the enemy phase or simply one-shots that unit. Ryoma with Vantage? Bring Odin with Death Blow, buff him up, and let him unleash his Eldritch Smackdown. Then, with the rise of Desperation and fast-hitting units, players may want to bring someone more defensive to the team so all those attacks deal little to no damage. Is there a Desperate Lucina? Ephraim says hello as she only does a mere 16 damage to him while he regenerates 10HP in the following turn thanks to Renewal. Heck, Ephram's presence may be so fearsome that Lucina deals even less damage than that due to Threaten ATT. Then this is not even considering the restrictions that will be put in place. As much as I love the Counter skills and the desire to put Svalinn Shield on Nowi, I believe IS is smart enough to lock those skills to the specific character. Yes, those characters may have a bit of an advantage with their uniques, but I am looking at the perspective of the lower tier units becoming useful and not in fear of the best units only becoming even better. I think the system will be fine and players will adapt after the initial frustration and confusion. This pretty much echoes my thoughts on Skill Inheritance (though I didn't go to the lengths that you did, thinking of specific builds and counterbuilds). A lot of people are understandably apprehensive at the thought of OP characters becoming more broken, but I for one am incredibly excited at the thought of this system having the potential to make characters I really like (but aren't that good) actually viable. EDIT: Also, I'm fairly certain you can transfer active specials and not just passive skills (though to what extent I don't know). At least, that makes sense to me since the description on Nino's weapon (+special cd) makes no sense unless she can get a special. Edited March 9, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, L9999 said: If inheritance is as broken as it sounds, what can Nino get out of it? Replace Res +3 with Death Blow or Darting Blow. Add Vantage or Desperation. Add a special skill. 5 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: This pretty much echoes my thoughts on Skill Inheritance (though I didn't go to the lengths that you did, thinking of specific builds and counterbuilds). A lot of people are understandably apprehensive at the thought of OP characters becoming more broken, but I for one am incredibly excited at the thought of this system having the potential to make characters I really like (but aren't that good) actually viable. My biggest problem isn't that characters will be broken, it's that free-to-play players will be utterly left in the dust, and there's really no way around this. 7 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: EDIT: Also, I'm fairly certain you can transfer active specials and not just passive skills (though to what extent I don't know). At least, that makes sense to me since the description on Nino's weapon (+special cd) makes no sense unless she can get a special. That's probably the weakest reason to give as an argument. All of the Blade-series tomes have that exact same effect, and enemy mages can easily have a Blade-series tome with no special skill either. All it means is there is no downside so long as you don't have a special skill. That said, there is no reason to believe special and assist skills won't be transferable. Edited March 9, 2017 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrasolar Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: My biggest problem isn't that characters will be broken, it's that free-to-play players will be utterly left in the dust, and there's really no way around this. Yeah, I like the prospect of mediocre or even bad characters being made more viable...but I don't want the game to become P2W either. Not jumping to conclusions, because for a mobile F2P game this one is relatively generous. At this point, I guess we can only wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 One of the only I can see them balance the issue is by changing the daily free hero thing so that you can get them each time they become daily heroes or change the rotation often, so that even free players have an access to some fodder for skill inheritance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just now, Extrasolar said: Yeah, I like the prospect of mediocre or even bad characters being made more viable...but I don't want the game to become P2W either. Not jumping to conclusions, because for a mobile F2P game this one is relatively generous. At this point, I guess we can only wait. It's slowly turning into summoner's war. Slowly, but surely. Starts off as rainbows and sparkles and kisses. Till someone has 3 takumis, 1 with hone attack, 2 with savage blow, and they all have vantage. Did I mention they all have gale force? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) I'd rather deck out Nino with three really good passives instead of giving her a Special skill. She doesn't need the extra firepower at all, but can be made extremely difficult to deal with with the right Passives. Not to mention, her tome makes Special skills charge slower, when as of now it has literally no downside. Edited March 9, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Are we certain they'll let characters replace skills? My thoughts are that each character will have a pool of skills to inherit from their free skill slots like the enemy characters we face in the tower: I've seen Cherches with Glimmer and others with Retribution, etc. I don't want to jump on early speculation and get scandalized on whether or not units will become more OP and whatnot. I prefer to wait and see how inherit skills will work and then draw conclusions. I also share @Ice Dragon's concerns. The mechanic itself will favor people that invest a lot of money in the game, while F2P players will have low use of the mechanic unless they save all of the summoned units (which is not my case because I send home most of them and just end with lv. +1 or +2 units). I find the mechanic interesting as it might refresh the meta by facing new faces! Edited March 9, 2017 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm just under 600 feathers away from my first 20000 thanks to the Gauntlet feathers I got! Ephraim won, so I got an extra 500 in addition to 1300 for my ranking. ^^ I blew most of my flags to get the score, but I don't really care that much. :P I just want to upgrade Freddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: I'm just under 600 feathers away from my first 20000 thanks to the Gauntlet feathers I got! Ephraim won, so I got an extra 500 in addition to 1300 for my ranking. ^^ I blew most of my flags to get the score, but I don't really care that much. :P I just want to upgrade Freddy! That feeling when you're so close. You just wanna send everyone home and get it over with! I actually almost did that too . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Yay I also got my feathers! I need 8K more for my first 5* augment. Dunno if raising RobinM or Cecilia as she's my favorite of the game so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I wonder if the boost of Defiant Atk is usable with the blade tomes, because if so, Defiant Atk+Desperation+Threaten Spd/Res with a blade tome is going to be disgusting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Arcanite said: That feeling when you're so close. You just wanna send everyone home and get it over with! I actually almost did that too . . . . . . Yeah, and I might get the first 5 star Freddy in the game. It doesn't seem like anyone's making him a priority and he can't be pulled as a 5 star. Of course, it's always possible that someone else beat me to the punch here, but it doesn't really matter to me. :P A 5 star Freddy is still a very rare thing to see! And even if that wasn't the case, I still love him. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, LuxSpes said: I wonder if the boost of Defiant Atk is usable with the blade tomes, because if so, Defiant Atk+Desperation+Threaten Spd/Res with a blade tome is going to be disgusting... Odin says hi. He has Defiant Atk and the stat gain is added to Blarrblade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, LuxSpes said: I wonder if the boost of Defiant Atk is usable with the blade tomes, because if so, Defiant Atk+Desperation+Threaten Spd/Res with a blade tome is going to be disgusting... -blade will double a Defiant buff. Odin already does it. Edit: Nuts...ninja'd. Edit 2: Sorta depends on who it is, really. Odin I'd say it's fine because he can take a hit or two pretty well. Tharja and Nino have kinda papery defenses though, so setting up the Defiant is pretty situational. Probably more worth it on Tharja because she has Vengeance, but tbh she & Nino both have enough Atk to get pretty reliable one/two-shots with run-of-the-mill Hones and/or Sieglinde/mund. Edited March 9, 2017 by LordFrigid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Yeah, and I might get the first 5 star Freddy in the game. It doesn't seem like anyone's making him a priority and he can't be pulled as a 5 star. Of course, it's always possible that someone else beat me to the punch here, but it doesn't really matter to me. :P A 5 star Freddy is still a very rare thing to see! And even if that wasn't the case, I still love him. <3 One can say, Freddy will always be your baby. Edited March 9, 2017 by Arcanite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 ^ Lulz Odin with Threaten Res will be quite strong. He just needs a Rally Speed support or Hone Speed ally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Quintessence said: Odin says hi. He has Defiant Atk and the stat gain is added to Blarrblade. 8 minutes ago, LordFrigid said: -blade will double a Defiant buff. Odin already does it. Edit: Nuts...ninja'd. Edit 2: Sorta depends on who it is, really. Odin I'd say it's fine because he can take a hit or two pretty well. Tharja and Nino have kinda papery defenses though, so setting up the Defiant is pretty situational. Probably more worth it on Tharja because she has Vengeance, but tbh she & Nino both have enough Atk to get pretty reliable one/two-shots with run-of-the-mill Hones and/or Sieglinde/mund. That'll teach to speculate at 23PM while tired from a long day... But +14 damage at low health with desperation sounds scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just now, LuxSpes said: That'll teach to speculate at 23PM while tired from a long day... But +14 damage at low health with desperation sounds scary Yeah it's pretty good and I've sniped some annoyances at the arena with him. Although he normally does low dmg, like his atk caps at 30 or something. In exchange he has decent Hp and decent stats. On another note I think I'll augment the classic trio: Alfonse, Sharena and Anna and throw Klein because fave and ranged attacker as my ideal arena team whoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFrigid Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, LuxSpes said: But +14 damage at low health with desperation sounds scary Desperation I'll agree with, yeah. And it is nice to have a buff of that magnitude all done "in-house"...could be nice if you don't want to be bothered with running Hones to set up the -blade ex. your favorite characters don't have them =P (though...if you've built up a team around a -blade, you've generally built a pretty well-balanced team, by virtue of which characters have the Hones/Fortifies). Edited March 9, 2017 by LordFrigid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: I don't really have any trouble getting wins, but the intent of my defense team is just to have at least one person out there WTF at it after being matched against and seeing my team (currently +9 Julia, +9 Lucina, +10 Lucina, and +7 Robin (M)). And Julia has to be on my defense team because the person standing on the top of my castle stairs is required to be adorable, and Julia is my strongest adorable character at the moment. I have more and more respect for you every time i read your posts 1 hour ago, Quintessence said: I don't want to jump on early speculation and get scandalized on whether or not units will become more OP and whatnot. I prefer to wait and see how inherit skills will work and then draw conclusions. I also share @Ice Dragon's concerns. The mechanic itself will favor people that invest a lot of money in the game, while F2P players will have low use of the mechanic unless they save all of the summoned units (which is not my case because I send home most of them and just end with lv. +1 or +2 units). I find the mechanic interesting as it might refresh the meta by facing new faces! Stop being me! 1 hour ago, Anacybele said: Yeah, and I might get the first 5 star Freddy in the game. It doesn't seem like anyone's making him a priority and he can't be pulled as a 5 star. Of course, it's always possible that someone else beat me to the punch here, but it doesn't really matter to me. :P A 5 star Freddy is still a very rare thing to see! And even if that wasn't the case, I still love him. <3 FWIW I saw a 5* Frederick floating around on Reddit a while back. Though I don't know this blindside_2017 punk from a hole in the wall, and I'm sure you'd give Fred the most respect and not just use him as if he were just some trading card, because you obviously believe in the heart of th- *shot https://gyazo.com/8a6d448b5c22008422f4e0c89779b633 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 @Ice Dragon, if only I had Julia! I settled on the next best thing, and that's Sharena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Sunwoo said: What do you guys think would be a good skill to put on Alfonse via skill inheritance? Death Blow + weapon + naturally high attack already makes him a hell of a nuke. I prefer Desperation over Brash Assault, because the doubling happens immediately. 8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Regarding skill inheritance, I'm surprised no one's yet mentioned Shanna's Desperation 3. Desperation 2 is the skill Sol Katti has built in (and is probably the only place many players have even seen the effect before), and I think this would be an amazing skill to have on an arena offense team. I can actually see Hana becoming more viable with either Vantage (to finish off already weakened enemies) or Desperation (to one-round enemies from full health) added to her kit. That said, like many of the others here, as fun as it sounds, I'm still not sold on skill inheritance at all. It widens the gap between whales and free players and makes characters far less unique. Switching weapons might be okay. Switching skills is pushing it unless there are stricter limitations than we currently know about. Furthermore, some skills are essentially locked behind rare pulls; forcing a player to choose to keep the rare character (either to use or merge) or pass the rare skill to another character is honestly a dick move, not even mentioning how much luck is involved in getting the character to begin with. Odin is going to be really terrifying with it, because it combos so very well with Defiant Atk. If I can get an extra Shanna, along with Threaten Spd, I'm going to have FUN with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, eclipse said: Death Blow + weapon + naturally high attack already makes him a hell of a nuke. I prefer Desperation over Brash Assault, because the doubling happens immediately. My thoughts; give him Threaten Def 3 as well, since it's a C passive and there aren't many other C passives that he'd be best off running. He could boop around with support options but Threaten Def makes him hit even harder with intelligent placement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 A 5 orbs special login bonus, eh? Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 That's because of an Appreciation Bonus / "We're sorry we flubbed up Arena Defense Calculations so have a freebie" Bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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