Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

^Read.

Who exactly is this directed at?

It's not like Ike will be the exception for having a slightly higher BST compared to similar units. If power creep does happen--and it most likely will--it will definitely move on past Ike into whatever units get introduced into the game afterwards.

[Vaximillian]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Oh, well, nobody said every new character added to the game has to be more powerful than the previous ones. We're only talking about Ike, not every FE character in existence.

So you ask for a character that would be more powerful than the previous ones when people give you reasons why it doesn't work when you add a character that would be more powerful than the previous ones and don't see an error in your reasoning.

Seems legit.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

So you ask for a character that would be more powerful than the previous ones when people give you reasons why it doesn't work when you add a character that would be more powerful than the previous ones and don't see an error in your reasoning.

Seems legit.

...What? Seriously, what are you talking about? I was never asking for Ike to be more powerful than everybody. I even said before, I want balance just as much as the rest of you.

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Who exactly is this directed at?

It's not like Ike will be the exception for having a slightly higher BST compared to similar units. If power creep does happen--and it most likely will--it will definitely move on past Ike into whatever units get introduced into the game afterwards.

At those who told me what power creep was after Rezzy already explained it. I happened to reply to her before you and Suichimo did, so I simply quoted my post for you.

Well, I think I'd prefer it didn't happen, but if it does, well...we'll just have to deal with it.

[Quintessence]

@Anacybele why do you have you to be so defensive at people that's only correcting you or giving you advice. Sheesh, when are you going to be less reactive.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Quintessence

[LuxSpes]

6 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Well, I know other free to play games get balance patches. And this isn't a game where you buy Lucina, it's a game where you buy a chance for Lucina. I'd be surprised if such a law existed. 

Reading around for information about laws in Japan, I saw claims that the anti-nerf law was something of an internet rumor that took a life of its own, so turns out you're right about that.

Though I still think Falchion isn't OP to the point of deserving a nerf. I'd say that Armads effect is better than Renewal 2 and giving Dragon eff to every weapons that has it in the original games would make life hell for dragon units though I'm probably biased by my 40+3 Lucina

[Suichimo]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Um, nobody is saying he is? Also, you don't have to sound so angry.

Just trying to get it through to you that Ike, regardless of which one, doesn't get higher stats than everone else just because he is Ike.

As far as my "special little snowflake comment, I'll just let your own words speak for themselves, "We're only talking about Ike, not every FE character in existence."

[Anacybele]

Just now, Suichimo said:

Just trying to get it through to you that Ike, regardless of which one, doesn't get higher stats than everone else just because he is Ike.

As far as my "special little snowflake comment, I'll just let your own words speak for themselves, "We're only talking about Ike, not every FE character in existence."

...Again, what? I'm not saying he should get higher stats than everyone else simply because of who he is. This is not about how much I like him or not. Like I said, I want balance as much as any of you.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

...Again, what? I'm not saying he should get higher stats than everyone else simply because of who he is. This is not about how much I like him or not. Like I said, I want balance as much as any of you.

But you do say that it's fine for a character to break the BST cap simply because that character is Ike.

Balance is not when Ike trumps everybody. Balance is when characters are, you know, balanced.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

7 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

Reading around for information about laws in Japan, I saw claims that the anti-nerf law was something of an internet rumor that took a life of its own, so turns out you're right about that.

Though I still think Falchion isn't OP to the point of deserving a nerf. I'd say that Armads effect is better than Renewal 2 and giving Dragon eff to every weapons that has it in the original games would make life hell for dragon units though I'm probably biased by my 40+3 Lucina

Yeah, while the two passives on Falchion is an annoying precedent, I can agree that it's not as overwhelmingly good as the dragon killing and the 16MT. So I guess I could live without that being patched out. I have only one of the three falchions (Marth) as a four star, and it seems they give them poor passive skills to compensate for the ridiculous weapon.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gustavos

[Anacybele]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

But you do say that it's fine for a character to break the BST cap simply because that character is Ike.

Balance is not when Ike trumps everybody. Balance is when characters are, you know, balanced.

No, I never said that at all. I never said he should be more powerful than everyone just because he's Ike. I don't know where any of you are getting this at all.

I know what balance is, thank you.

6 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

@Anacybele why do you have you to be so defensive at people that's only correcting you or giving you advice. Sheesh, when are you going to be less reactive.

Correcting me on what? I assumed we were talking about opinions here, not facts. As in, it's my opinion that Ike, or any character, going over a certain BST won't automatically make them OP.

And what advice? I never asked for advice on anything.

As for why I'm being defensive, maybe because people are accusing me of saying or implying things that I'm not? I'm not at all trying to make Ike super special or anything whatsoever. I know that's stupid and too much favoritism.

[Rezzy]

6 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

Reading around for information about laws in Japan, I saw claims that the anti-nerf law was something of an internet rumor that took a life of its own, so turns out you're right about that.

Though I still think Falchion isn't OP to the point of deserving a nerf. I'd say that Armads effect is better than Renewal 2 and giving Dragon eff to every weapons that has it in the original games would make life hell for dragon units though I'm probably biased by my 40+3 Lucina

I think Armads seems better than it actually is because the only one with it also has DIstant Counter.  If you could safely chip damage Hector from 2-range, that Quick Riposte he has wouldn't be as big an obstacle.  As is, you need a hard counter to Hector to really deal with him.

[Omegaprism]

As someone who continues to lament the harsh reality of a sword lord with less than 27 neutral speed (Poor Chrom, Alphonse, and Seliph :'[), I really hope that even RD Ike has at least a passable speed. I'm not asking for Lon'qu level speed, just like a 29 or something. We already have a few slow sword lords, and they are much harder to use than their lightning-quick compatriots. No amount of ridiculous defense is worth getting doubled (or quad attacked) all the time, especially as a melee unit.

[Suichimo]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Again, what? I'm not saying he should get higher stats than everyone else simply because of who he is. This is not about how much I like him or not. Like I said, I want balance as much as any of you.

Again, your own words. I'll bold where needed:

6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, PoR Ike will undoubtedly be fast and strong with lower defenses (lower res than def though). It's only RD Ike that can reasonably be slow. I feel he's going to be a 2-movement Hector with slightly better speed (because even RD Ike was never as slow as an armor). :P Here's my stat estimate on them at 5 star lv. 40:

PoR Ike

HP: 38

Attack: 36 (48 if we add 12 might for Ragnell)

Speed: 35

Defense: 28

Res: 20

RD Ike

HP: 45

Attack: 40 (52 if we add 12 might for Ragnell, 54 if he gets a 14 might Urvan instead. I can see Urvan being stronger because it's a big axe)

Speed: 27

Defense: 38

Res: 15

Your RD Ike also comes out to 165 BST.

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

That defense is a bit too low for RD Ike, imo, and the speed could be a bit higher, but otherwise, that seems realistic enough.

This was in response to Troykv's BALANCED 158 BST RD Ike.

27 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

If that's true, that's pretty lame, imo. This means every character will be similar to a bunch of others in terms of stats instead of being a more unique character with their own perks. That's boring.

 

20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

"Power creep"? I have no idea what you're saying here.

Well, yeah, but if you have just a few different limits, that's a LOT of characters that would be similar and that's overkill.

I disagree. I don't think going over 158 automatically makes him OP at all. It comes down to how the stats are distributed.

I don't care if I exceed it or not though, so long as there's still balance.

Duh, balance is important. I'm not an idiot, seeing as I just mentioned wanting balance. Of course you don't want one character to roll over everyone else.

158 BST is balanced.

15 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Oh, well, nobody said every new character added to the game has to be more powerful than the previous ones. We're only talking about Ike, not every FE character in existence.

And here is you EXPLICITLY saying that Ike gets to be more powerful because he is Ike. Afterall, we're talking about Ike, not any other character.

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I think Armads seems better than it actually is because the only one with it also has DIstant Counter.  If you could safely chip damage Hector from 2-range, that Quick Riposte he has wouldn't be as big an obstacle.  As is, you need a hard counter to Hector to really deal with him.

I'd say Frederick is the best Hector counter since he can tank the hits and then hammer the guy to death (I should know, I have nobody else that can handle Hector as safely...), but even that could still leave Frederick damaged enough to where he'll get beat by a mage on the field. So yeah, you do need a hard counter for him.

@Suichimo ...lol, really? Because I still have no idea where in my words you're finding any of these claims. Since I just can't take you seriously here, I'm done talking to you about this. And I disagree that Troykv's Ike is balanced enough.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Omegaprism said:

As someone who continues to lament the harsh reality of a sword lord with less than 27 neutral speed (Poor Chrom, Alphonse, and Seliph :'[), I really hope that even RD Ike has at least a passable speed. I'm not asking for Lon'qu level speed, just like a 29 or something. We already have a few slow sword lords, and they are much harder to use than their lightning-quick compatriots. No amount of ridiculous defense is worth getting doubled (or quad attacked) all the time, especially as a melee unit.

Maybe they'll eventually give a Skill like Wary Fighter for non-Armor units.  Maybe we'll get a unit with like 3 Speed at level 40.  Might as well make the most of the BST, if their Speed is trash anyway.

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Suichimo said:

Again, your own words. I'll bold where needed:

Your RD Ike also comes out to 165 BST.

This was in response to Troykv's BALANCED 158 BST RD Ike.

 

158 BST is balanced.

And here is you EXPLICITLY saying that Ike gets to be more powerful because he is Ike. Afterall, we're talking about Ike, not any other character.

I think you're overreacting 

This is all just speculation about a character who is not in the game yet. No need to make corrections if it really doesn't make a difference! :P

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'd say Frederick is the best Hector counter since he can tank the hits and then hammer the guy to death (I should know, I have nobody else that can safely handle Hector...), but even that could still leave Frederick damaged enough to where he'll get beat by a mage on the field. So yeah, you do need a hard counter for him.

I mean, T-adept sanaki is a little better than fred. As well as Selena. And buffed Tharja. And Henry too since he has the defense to eat a hit from hector.

Frederick is pretty nice to though. I like his defenses :)

[MaskedAmpharos]

@Anacybele Ike having a higher BST than the average infantry unit won't make him OP automatically, but it will definitely give him an unfair advantage over other units, especially since certain units aren't used at all in higher level Arena for no other reason than their natural BST is too low (such as literally all thieves and cavalry units not named Eldigan. And after the Arena changes, Eldigan will be out too since Fury's the main reason he's so high up right now). 

One of the main reasons Hector is so prevalent in Arena isn't just because he's an amazing unit (though that, of course, is a significant reason) but also because he has the highest natural BST in the game, making him almost mandatory to run on your team if you want a good Arena score. 

If you look at the wiki's stat table, Nintendo/IS has carefully segregated max BST based on the unit's movement type and range:

• ALL armored units are between 168-169 BST
• ALL dragons are between 162-163 BST
• and ALL melee infantry are between 156-158 BST

For Ike to be as balanced as everyone else, he would also need to fall into that 156-158 BST range because that's the range literally every single (non-dragon) melee infantry unit in the game is in. That's all people are trying to say.  

Edited April 10, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I mean, T-adept sanaki is a little better than fred. As well as Selena. And buffed Tharja. And Henry too since he has the defense to eat a hit from hector.

Frederick is pretty nice to though. I like his defenses :)

That Sanaki would require inheritance and it doesn't seem like anybody runs Henry at all (and I can see why, he's too slow and doesn't hit very hard). I do see people use Frederick though, and he can take on Hectors without the need of inheriting skills (though they'd certainly help). And would Selena or Tharja be able to take hits from Hector even though they're red? Tharja is a mage, so probably not, and I don't see anyone use Selena either.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[LuxSpes]

Just now, Rezzy said:

I think Armads seems better than it actually is because the only one with it also has DIstant Counter.  If you could safely chip damage Hector from 2-range, that Quick Riposte he has wouldn't be as big an obstacle.  As is, you need a hard counter to Hector to really deal with him.

While Distant Counter definitely makes Quick Riposte better, it's still a very good skill on slow bulky units since it allows them to dominate their range (I've been paired up with a Quick Riposte Sheena for quite a lot of gauntlet battles and she saved my hide quite a lot.) Hector just takes it farther by being a pain to ranged units as well. (Dragons with Lightning Breath+ can also use Quick Riposte to quite an effect)

 

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I'd say Frederick is the best Hector counter since he can tank the hits and then hammer the guy to death (I should know, I have nobody else that can safely handle Hector...), but even that could still leave Frederick damaged enough to where he'll get beat by a mage on the field. So yeah, you do need a hard counter for him.

My personal best Hector counter is Sanaki who can 1HKO him without taking 1 HP worth of damage. Roy can also 1RKO Hector while taking 5 damage from him. (in short,Triangle Adept on high attack Red units is a godsend against Hector).

Though as for Frederick, a +Def Fred with Armored Blow and Rally Defense would take 3 damage from a neutral Atk Hector which is really good.

[Suichimo]

6 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I think you're overreacting 

This is all just speculation about a character who is not in the game yet. No need to make corrections if it really doesn't make a difference! :P

I mean, T-adept sanaki is a little better than fred. As well as Selena. And buffed Tharja. And Henry too since he has the defense to eat a hit from hector.

Frederick is pretty nice to though. I like his defenses :)

Yeah, maybe I am.

 

Also:

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

My personal best Hector counter is Sanaki who can 1HKO him without taking 1 HP worth of damage. Roy can also 1RKO Hector while taking 5 damage from him. (in short,Triangle Adept on high attack Red units is a godsend against Hector).

Though as for Frederick, a +Def Fred with Armored Blow and Rally Defense would take 3 damage from a neutral Atk Hector which is really good.

That's cool, but the thing is, and I apologize for not mentioning this in my earlier post, Sanaki is a very rare pull. You're much more likely to land Frederick. And as I said, Frederick doesn't need to inherit skills to safely kill a Hector, though they would help him as you pointed out. I plan to give mine Armored Blow and all too. Especially since he is +def. :P

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That Sanaki would require inheritance and it doesn't seem like anybody runs Henry at all (and I can see why, he's too slow and doesn't hit very hard). I do see people use Frederick though, and he can take on Hectors without the need of inheriting skills (though they'd certainly help). And would Selena or Tharja be able to take hits from Hector even though they're red? Tharja is a mage, so probably not, and I don't see anyone use Selena either.

Sanaki comes with t-adept, Selena has upper defenses and she has an armor slayer and also has t-adept and decent speed. Only buffed Tharja can one shot hector cause of the redblade tome. I agree with henry, a little bit.

Also suichimo pointed out T-adept roy who I forgot to mention

You'll find it ironic what people do to Selena. She's very flexible because of her quite mediocre stats. She has some good potential with skill inheritance. You should probably invest in her if you have one, assuming you have the resources 

Anywho, I must recharge my batteries (aka sleep)! You know us robots...........

[LuxSpes]

Just now, Anacybele said:

That's cool, but the thing is, and I apologize for not mentioning this in my earlier post, Sanaki is a very rare pull. You're much more likely to land Frederick. And as I said, Frederick doesn't need to inherit skills to safely kill a Hector, though they would help him as you pointed out. I plan to give mine Armored Blow and all too. Especially since he is +def. :P

True, though Selena has around the same pull-rate as Frederick and when 5* takes 0 Damage from Hector and 1RKO him in return. 

[Anacybele]

@Arcanite No way, Selena is better off as skill fodder. Which I used her for. I gave her Reposition to female Robin. Like you said, Selena's stats are mediocre. And besides, I have a 5 star Marth and plan to pull Ike and stuff.

@LuxSpes See above.

[MaskedAmpharos]

14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That Sanaki would require inheritance and it doesn't seem like anybody runs Henry at all (and I can see why, he's too slow and doesn't hit very hard). I do see people use Frederick though, and he can take on Hectors without the need of inheriting skills (though they'd certainly help). And would Selena or Tharja be able to take hits from Hector even though they're red? Tharja is a mage, so probably not, and I don't see anyone use Selena either.

Sanaki comes with Triangle Adept automatically, so she wouldn't need any inheritance. 

As for Tharja, it's quite easy for her to OHKO Hector without needing to take a single point of damage if she's buffed up (something like Hone Atk, Hone Spd, and Fortify Def would be enough, which is pretty standard if you're running a blade mage). 

Alternatively, if Tharja has Desperation and is within the HP threshold of the skill, she can one-shot Hector without a single buff at all, even if she's -Atk. 

It's actually pretty crazy how hard Tharja demolishes Hector.