"Ask Fire Emblem Heroes Questions and Get Them Answered Here" Thread

[DefyingFates]

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

It's happening. 😮

Godspeed, noble hackers.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Halloween Myrrh's optimal set with skills through the CYL banner would look something like this.

Near Save:

Halloween Myrrh [+Res / +Def]
Spirit Breath [unique]
[Assist]
Bonfire / Ignis
Atk/Res Scowl 4 / Close Def 4
Counter Roar 4 / Special Fighter 4
D/R Near Save 3 / A/D Near Save 3
Def/Res Form 3

Far Save:

Halloween Myrrh [+Res]
Spirit Breath [unique]
[Assist]
Armored Beacon
Atk/Res Scowl 4 / Distant Def 4 / Fireflood Boost 3
Counter Roar 4 / Special Fighter 4
D/R Far Save 3
Distant Counter (D)

For the Near Save build, Bonfire should be used with Counter Roar, and Ignis should be used with Special Fighter. D/R Near Save should be run with Scowl. A/D Near Save should be run with Close Def.

Fireflood Boost can be used with Special Fighter even though the Guard effect overlaps because you still get the additional 5 HP.

Arcane Grima [Def / Res] can be used instead of Spirit Breath for the Slaying effect and passive healing in exchange for some bulk. This also give her access to a standard Hardy Fighter build.

Thank you very much for this write-up, not just the builds! I think I have a spare A!Grima too, so I may be able to make the alternate build you mentioned too if the need arises.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Summer Laegjarn would probably run something like this:

Summer Laegjarn [+Spd]
Worldsea Wave [unique]
[Assist]
Ruptured Sky / Luna
Flared Sparrow / Atk/Spd Catch 4
S/R Far Trace 3 / Seal Spd 4 / Escape Route 4
Atk/Spd Oath 4 / Spd/Res Hold
[any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd]

Flared Sparrow deals more damage, but Atk/Spd Catch 4 gives her 2 additional points of Spd for the purposes of creeping Spd.

Escape Route 4 should only be used if you have a reliable means of getting damage on her, as she is unlikely to take damage in combat due to her weapon's Desperation effect. As with the passive A skill, S/R Far Trace deals more damage, but Seal Spd 4 grants a higher boost to Spd.

Atk/Spd Oath 4 is her overall best C skill for combat performance, especially because her weapon relies on having stat bonuses to gain additional Atk/Spd. Spd/Res Hold should really only be used if you already have support effects to grant her Atk/Spd bonuses.

If you can afford to give up combat performance from her C slot, she can also run Guidance 4, Soaring Guidance, or Def/Res Smoke 3.

And thanks again! I need to save these somewhere!

[Zeo]

So Arcane Euphoria is perfect for Ilyana as are the skills for the most part. It just so happens I had her at +9 waiting to be completed (she was a forma but I didn't do well with the skills except for ATK/RES Finish.) So I got 2 questions.

1. I've ascended her RES stat. Should I use Trait fruit to make her +ATK or +SPD? It's weird because picking one subtracts from others, she's +10 and given max DF, so her stat spread is gonna look like one of these (with Arcane Euphoria equipped with no refine stones)

+ATK = 47/63/40/25/52

+SPD =  47/60/43/25/52

We can pretty much assume that she'll be going all in on ATK and RES. Which means the refine for Euphoria will likely be +RES to help win the ploy check. With that in mind, 3 additional speed is substantial and that may allow her to win some speed checks against units with followup prevention. The 3 attack is very nice for killing, but she's going to get the +10 true damage from exposure anyways, so is it worth it to lose out on some doubles? Which is better?

2. Her build.

These are placeholders, she'll get everything from Plumeria. But how do I improve her? Iceberg seems like an obvious choice, given her RES. ATK/RES Finish is nice but I feel like she'll get more milage out of Still Water because of the ploy effect, but what that means is she'll basically blow up attacking anything physical with Distant Counter which is my concern with going both with the A skill an the seal. With both though, pretty much everything imaginable is going to get ployed.

For the B skill I have no idea what to do. I got ATK/RES Tempo from the HoF which is pretty useless. QR4 and Lull ATK/RES 3 seem archaic for her despite them synergizing with her kit somewhat. Mag' Null Followup seems like a nice choice, SS3 might also be an option but the problem is, if she uses Iceberg, when is she going to get that first proc without any sort of +1 to cooldown charge?

C skill is a no brainer, Ploys all day.

Seal slot is another story. With Still Water she can ploy everything under the sun, but with something like Heavy Blade she can proc Iceberg in one round of combat if she doubles. That's her attack stat, +15% of her ATK and 33 additional points of damage from her RES stat. That's nonsense. But on the other hand, 70 ATK isn't the highest in todays meta and she might not even be able to double anyways.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Zeo

[Ether]

18 minutes ago, Zeo said:

So Arcane Euphoria is perfect for Ilyana as are the skills for the most part. It just so happens I had her at +9 waiting to be completed (she was a forma but I didn't do well with the skills except for ATK/RES Finish.) So I got 2 questions.

1. I've ascended her RES stat. Should I use Trait fruit to make her +ATK or +SPD? It's weird because picking one subtracts from others, she's +10 and given max DF, so her stat spread is gonna look like one of these (with Arcane Euphoria equipped with no refine stones)

+ATK = 47/63/40/25/52

+SPD =  47/60/43/25/52

We can pretty much assume that she'll be going all in on ATK and RES. Which means the refine for Euphoria will likely be +RES to help win the ploy check. With that in mind, 3 additional speed is substantial and that may allow her to win some speed checks against units with followup prevention. The 3 attack is very nice for killing, but she's going to get the +10 true damage from exposure anyways, so is it worth it to lose out on some doubles? Which is better?

2. Her build.

These are placeholders, she'll get everything from Plumeria. But how do I improve her? Iceberg seems like an obvious choice, given her RES. ATK/RES Finish is nice but I feel like she'll get more milage out of Still Water because of the ploy effect, but what that means is she'll basically blow up attacking anything physical with Distant Counter which is my concern with going both with the A skill an the seal. With both though, pretty much everything imaginable is going to get ployed.

For the B skill I have no idea what to do. I got ATK/RES Tempo from the HoF which is pretty useless. QR4 and Lull ATK/RES 3 seem archaic for her despite them synergizing with her kit somewhat. Mag' Null Followup seems like a nice choice, SS3 might also be an option but the problem is, if she uses Iceberg, when is she going to get that first proc without any sort of +1 to cooldown charge?

C skill is a no brainer, Ploys all day.

Seal slot is another story. With Still Water she can ploy everything under the sun, but with something like Heavy Blade she can proc Iceberg in one round of combat if she doubles. That's her attack stat, +15% of her ATK and 33 additional points of damage from her RES stat. That's nonsense. But on the other hand, 70 ATK isn't the highest in todays meta and she might not even be able to double anyways.

+Atk will be better unless you intend to speed stack on her A/B/S slots. She's in that awkward mid-speed tier where if you go all in she can smoke other guys in that tier, but beats the slow ones either way. How viable speedy Ilyana is depends on what you want to use her in. She's probably pretty bad in high tier AR/SD etc but I can't speak for those modes.

As for her skills, it's all about tradeoffs. Finish is superior to Still water in combat by a wide margin, but Still water gives visible stats. How much do you care about winning Ploy checks vs super high res foes specifically? Ilyana's naturally high res with a superboon is already going to hit every "normal" target pretty easily(+10/20DF +Res Res Refine hits 55 visible Res on it's own, so anything with 60 or less visible res gets hit without any of the still waters). Do note that vs LRobin, targets will have debuffed visible res to boot, which they don't get to benefit from if you Ploy away their grand strategy.

WoM4 in itself is useful, although not a combat skill. Both MNFU and Spiral 4 are better for combat(I wouldn't bother replacing it for spiral 3). As for the first Iceberg(or Flare as a shoutout if you source MNFU from Brave Soren)on a spiral build, you either need allies with pulse support, or to get it the old fashioned way by attacking into a mage that can't do much back to her if you intent to run Ploy on every build.

As for the seal slot, I wouldn't use heavy blade. It's hard to proc consistently these days, and vs things without guard that she doubles, she'll pop special on her second hit vs things that counter anyway. Still water is fine if you wanna go really hard on Ploying, otherwise whatever good stat-granting seal you have floating around or whatever effect makes sense for the content at hand. 

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Zeo said:

1. I've ascended her RES stat. Should I use Trait fruit to make her +ATK or +SPD? It's weird because picking one subtracts from others, she's +10 and given max DF, so her stat spread is gonna look like one of these (with Arcane Euphoria equipped with no refine stones)

+ATK = 47/63/40/25/52

+SPD =  47/60/43/25/52

We can pretty much assume that she'll be going all in on ATK and RES. Which means the refine for Euphoria will likely be +RES to help win the ploy check. With that in mind, 3 additional speed is substantial and that may allow her to win some speed checks against units with followup prevention. The 3 attack is very nice for killing, but she's going to get the +10 true damage from exposure anyways, so is it worth it to lose out on some doubles? Which is better?

Unless a unit is a dedicated support unit, I would not bother increasing HP or Res at the cost of Atk/Spd just to trigger buffs/debuffs. For Illyana, I would go with +Atk/Spd rather than +Atk/Res if you plan to have her be a combat unit. Even without an Asset in Res, if she got Still Water in both slots, she is going to inflict debuffs on even the bulkiest tanks. Personally, I would just offload support entirely to a dedicated support unit and have her C slot run something like Atk/Spd Oath for more in-combat stats.

Combat units need to prioritize in-combat stats over visible stats, since in-combat stats are what really matters for performance. The only exception I can think of are Blazing nukes who rely on the visible Atk stat for the out-of-combat Blazing hit.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Zeo said:

So Arcane Euphoria is perfect for Ilyana as are the skills for the most part. It just so happens I had her at +9 waiting to be completed (she was a forma but I didn't do well with the skills except for ATK/RES Finish.) So I got 2 questions.

I'd go with either [+Atk, +Res] or [+Atk, +Spd] depending on the role you want Ilyana to play. While her Spd stat isn't amazing, there are enough units in her Spd tier that have defensive Null Follow-Up or follow-up prevention that a boost in Spd would help her double through those effects. On the other hand, the extra Res makes her more useful on enemy phase to tank tome units as well as hit Ploy or Sabotage effects.

 

For the Spd build, I'd suggest something like this:

Ilyana [+Atk, +Spd]
Arcane Euphoria [Spd]
[Assist]
Flare
Atk/Spd Finish 4
Mag. Null Follow / Escape Route 4 / Special Spiral 4 / Spd/Res Tempo 3
Atk/Spd Pledge / Atk/Spd Oath 4 / Def/Res Smoke 3
[any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd]

Atk/Spd Finish 4 is the strongest A skill, but Remote Sparrow is still an option if you need the extra damage reduction.

Guard 4 and Null C-Disrupt 4 are also viable options for the B slot. Brash Assault 4 doubles up on the guaranteed follow-up, but the effect does stack against follow-up prevention, and the damage boost on the follow-up attack is enough to almost always make the skill a viable option as long as the opponent can counterattack and doesn't instantly kill you. Lull Spd/Res 4 will also be an option after it's released.

 

For the Res build, you're looking at something like this:

Ilyana [+Atk, +Res]
Arcane Euphoria [Res]
[Assist]
Flare
Still Water 4 / Atk/Res Finish 4
Sabotage A/R 3 / Escape Route 4 / Mag. Null Follow / Special Spiral 4 / Atk/Res Tempo 3
Def/Res Ploy 3 / Atk/Spd Pledge / Atk/Res Oath 4
Still Water 3 / [any other Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Res]

Sabotage A/R 3 is easily the strongest B skill in terms of combat performance for this build, and because its in-combat effect still relies on a comparison of visible Res, you still want to run Still Water to make sure you can activate it, even with Def/Res Ploy 3's more lenient stat comparison. Similarly, it's still worth running Def/Res Ploy 3 at the same time as Sabotage A/R 3 for the more lenient stat comparison, more lenient positioning requirement, and the additional debuffs.

If you aren't running Sabotage A/R 3, you don't need quite as much visible Res, so you can afford to run other A skills and Sacred Seals.

Similarly to the Spd build, Guard 4, Null C-Disrupt 4, Brash Assault 4, and a future Lull Atk/Res 4 are all viable alternatives, though they are not as strong in terms of raw power. Also, Remote Mirror is an option for the A slot if you need the extra damage reduction.

[DefyingFates]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ilyana [+Atk, +Res]
Arcane Euphoria [Res]
[Assist]
Flare
Still Water 4 / Atk/Res Finish 4
Sabotage A/R 3 / Escape Route 4 / Mag. Null Follow / Special Spiral 4 / Atk/Res Tempo 3
Def/Res Ploy 3 / Atk/Spd Pledge / Atk/Res Oath 4
Still Water 3 / [any other Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Res]

Have you listed those skills in order of preference? For example, I don't have Sabotage A/ 3. Thank you for the build idea!

[Ice Dragon]

48 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Have you listed those skills in order of preference? For example, I don't have Sabotage A/ 3. Thank you for the build idea!

The order is roughly by how useful I consider the skill to be. I tend to put skills that are tailored for the role first, then general-use skills, then skills that are more specialized for specific situations (but are usually still viable for general use).

[DefyingFates]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:40 PM, Ice Dragon said:

The order is roughly by how useful I consider the skill to be. I tend to put skills that are tailored for the role first, then general-use skills, then skills that are more specialized for specific situations (but are usually still viable for general use).

Thanks! The first skill in the B row I have is Mag NFU, so I guess that's what I'll go with if I end up committing to this build idea. I hope we get new sources of Flare and/ or Mag NFU soon...

EDIT: I don't know if the double posting rule applies when a topic stagnates, but just in case it does, what should I do if I want to build Cyril? He doesn't have the Slaying effect and I'm not sure if that means he's not good at running Deadeye. I was thinking something along the lines of:

Quote

Deadeye
Atk/Spd Ideal 4 (since I don't have a spare Finish)
Phys NFU
Time's Pulse 3/4

Would that work or is he better with Ruptured Sky or some other 2-turn CD skill? Thanks as always, everyone!

Edited September 17, 2023 by DefyingFates

[DefyingFates]

This thread's been dead for almost a month so I hope double posting is okay for the sake of defibrillating it. Anyway:

On 9/15/2023 at 6:20 AM, Ice Dragon said:

For the Res build, you're looking at something like this:

Ilyana [+Atk, +Res]
Arcane Euphoria [Res]
[Assist]
Flare
Still Water 4 / Atk/Res Finish 4
Sabotage A/R 3 / Escape Route 4 / Mag. Null Follow / Special Spiral 4 / Atk/Res Tempo 3
Def/Res Ploy 3 / Atk/Spd Pledge / Atk/Res Oath 4
Still Water 3 / [any other Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Res]

I got a spare A!Ced wanted to know if this build but with SS4 and an AoE Special would be a good meta choice too? Ced's putting in some good work in Arena for me, but I was curious if the same would hold true for K!Soren.

And to repeat my previous question, what are some good build options for Cyril? As I said before, he doesn't have Slaying and I don't know how much that hampers his ability to run the usual candidates for Specials/ if it means stuff like SS4 become more important for him.

As for my newest question, are Duel skills still worth using in Arena these days? Current F2P units hit 180 naturally and that's not even getting into premium ones and outliers like Cyril scoring 205. I have a og!Pent and og!Marianne to spare and was wondering if they would be good fodder for someone. I'm already crossing my fingers for a good Arcane tome for Nino, for example.

[Ether]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

This thread's been dead for almost a month so I hope double posting is okay for the sake of defibrillating it. Anyway:

I got a spare A!Ced wanted to know if this build but with SS4 and an AoE Special would be a good meta choice too? Ced's putting in some good work in Arena for me, but I was curious if the same would hold true for K!Soren.

And to repeat my previous question, what are some good build options for Cyril? As I said before, he doesn't have Slaying and I don't know how much that hampers his ability to run the usual candidates for Specials/ if it means stuff like SS4 become more important for him.

As for my newest question, are Duel skills still worth using in Arena these days? Current F2P units hit 180 naturally and that's not even getting into premium ones and outliers like Cyril scoring 205. I have a og!Pent and og!Marianne to spare and was wondering if they would be good fodder for someone. I'm already crossing my fingers for a good Arcane tome for Nino, for example.

AoE specials still hit hard, but notably do not benefit from spiral 4's Dr piercing. As such, you're better off just giving your AoE user spiral 3 for accessibility purposes unless you're flush with fodder. Do note that if you want to run still water and ploy, you'll need outside pulse support in order to get your first AoE going to start the loop if you intend to have it for your first combat.

Don't know enough about cyril to comment on him, but I know some folk were grabbing ruptured sky on their LLyn forma for ease of use purposes. You can probably brute force deadeye with spiral 3 and tp4(again spiral 3 is just easier to get ahold of when your special already pierces dr) but I would imagine a phys nfu build would be better.

Duels are useless on modern units, at least the duel effect itself is. If you really want to bring an old merge project to arena, they will still increase your score, but you're generally better off just making a new arena core with modern demotes especially since arcane will score worse than prf weapons, most of which on those old units will not perform as well, doubly so when saddled with Duel in the A slot.

For scoring purposes, they're still optimal for the units that have less bst than their threshold, but they have a lot of drawbacks.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

This thread's been dead for almost a month so I hope double posting is okay for the sake of defibrillating it. Anyway:

Don't worry too much about double posts in this thread. Making sure questions are seen and answered is generally more important than avoiding double posts.

 

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I got a spare A!Ced wanted to know if this build but with SS4 and an AoE Special would be a good meta choice too? Ced's putting in some good work in Arena for me, but I was curious if the same would hold true for K!Soren.

Special Spiral 4's percentage damage reduction nullification excludes AoE Specials, so the only benefit you'd get from it over Special Spiral 3 is the additional 5 damage. Unless you have a lot of Special Spiral 4 fodder or you have extra empty inheritance slots left over while transferring a different skill, it's probably not worth getting Special Spiral 4 for an AoE Special.

 

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

And to repeat my previous question, what are some good build options for Cyril? As I said before, he doesn't have Slaying and I don't know how much that hampers his ability to run the usual candidates for Specials/ if it means stuff like SS4 become more important for him.

Cyril's weapon pretty much just gives him something like +25/13/10/10, penalty nullification, and nothing else. And while his stat total is extremely high, pretty much all of those extra points are in HP. That's not a bad thing, though, since his other stats are all still comparable with other modern units, and the introduction of Infantry Pulse 4 gives him a potential use for the high HP.

His best builds will probably center around which A skill you pick for him, as I can see him running any of Remote Sparrow, Flash Sparrow, or Atk/Spd Finish 4 pretty decently. Since Cyril has basically no skill effects on his weapon, these are all basically cookie-cutter builds, so you can run them on pretty much anyone with adjustments based on what skill effects they get from their weapon.

(It's worth noting that for these cookie-cutter builds even low-HP units can viably run Infantry Pulse 4. You obviously lose the support effect, but Infantry Pulse 4 activates at the start of every turn with no condition, unlike Time's Pulse 4, which is conditional on your Special being fully uncharged. For units that aren't running a 1-cooldown Special and aren't running Special Spiral, this makes a pretty big difference.)

With Remote Sparrow:

Cyril [+Spd]
Aptitude Arrows
[Assist]
Ruptured Sky
Remote Sparrow
Phys. Null Follow / Escape Route 4 / Spd/Def Tempo 3
Atk/Spd Oath 4 / Atk/Spd Pledge / Infantry Pulse 4 / Time's Pulse 4
[any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd] / Null Follow-Up 3

Pledge and the Pulse 4 skills are there to get the Special to land if the opponent can't counterattack. You can also use them with Deadeye (either Pledge or Pulse) or Astra (Pledge only) against an opponent that can counterattack and doesn't have Guard or Tempo. Oath 4 is really only usable if you are expecting the opponent to be able to counterattack.

Obviously, don't run the Null Follow-Up Sacred Seal if you're running Phys. Null Follow in the B slot.

With Flash Sparrow or Atk/Spd Finish 4:

Cyril [+Spd]
Aptitude Arrows
[Assist]
Ruptured Sky / Deadeye / Astra
Flash Sparrow / Atk/Spd Finish 4
Desperation 4 / Brash Assault 4 / Special Spiral 4
Atk/Spd Oath 4 / Atk/Spd Pledge / Infantry Pulse 4 / Time's Pulse 4
[any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Spd] / Null Follow-Up 3

Obviously don't stack effects that don't stack and pick your Special based on what you can actually land on your follow-up attack. Note that Desperation 4 gives you fewer options for the other slots (Ruptured Sky + Flash Sparrow + Oath 4 // Ruptured Sky + Atk/Spd Finish 4 + Pledge // Deadeye + Flash Sparrow + Pulse 4) than Brash Assault 4.

Def/Res Smoke 3 is also an option for either of the above builds as an alternative to Atk/Spd Oath 4 if you are willing to pass up on the mobility and combat performance in exchange for the Pathfinder effect for support.

 

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

As for my newest question, are Duel skills still worth using in Arena these days? Current F2P units hit 180 naturally and that's not even getting into premium ones and outliers like Cyril scoring 205. I have a og!Pent and og!Marianne to spare and was wondering if they would be good fodder for someone. I'm already crossing my fingers for a good Arcane tome for Nino, for example.

Duel skills are only worth using if the increase in score is enough to move you up above or keep you above a scoring threshold that you're targeting. More specifically, they are only potentially worth running if your Arena team includes units that aren't fully merged and you have older fully merged units that could replace them.

As a reminder:

• 1 stat bucket (5 stat points) is worth an average 0.5 Arena points per match
  • Includes base stats, Asset, Flaw, and first-merge bonus (nullified Flaw or 3 +1 stats)
  • Excludes Ascended Asset, Dragonflowers, blessing bonuses, summoner support bonuses, stats from skills, and anything else not listed in "includes"
• 1 SP bucket (100 SP) is worth an average 0.5 Arena points per match
• 1 merge is worth an average 1.0 Arena points per match

If you're using the bonus Legendary Hero, check with an Arena score calculator to see if a change of less than 2 Arena points will change your maximum score.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[DefyingFates]

Does the current Engage rerun banner have 2 sparks or just 1? Thanks as always!!

[Ice Dragon]

48 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Does the current Engage rerun banner have 2 sparks or just 1? Thanks as always!!

Just one.

You can check by using the button to go to the banner announcement from the banner screen, tapping on the blue text at the top about Celestial Stones, and seeing how many pulls it says you need to get one. If there is more than one spark, then there will be red text saying you'll get a spark and Celestial Stone at 40 pulls and 80 pulls (and 120 pulls and 160 pulls if there are that many sparks).

On the notifications board (on the screen before opening the announcement), banners with more than one spark will have text in red and bold that uses the same wording.

[DefyingFates]

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Just one.

You can check by using the button to go to the banner announcement from the banner screen, tapping on the blue text at the top about Celestial Stones, and seeing how many pulls it says you need to get one. If there is more than one spark, then there will be red text saying you'll get a spark and Celestial Stone at 40 pulls and 80 pulls (and 120 pulls and 160 pulls if there are that many sparks).

On the notifications board (on the screen before opening the announcement), banners with more than one spark will have text in red and bold that uses the same wording.

Thank you very much, I'll try to remember this! I should have paid more attention during the Plumeria + Ced banner...

[DefyingFates]

Following @Ice Dragon's advice I've been tinkering with this Arena Score calculator with possible unit builds based on which units/ fodder I currently have:

Lumera:

Quote

Monarch Blade
Assist
Ruptured Sky
Distant A/S Solo
Close Call 4 (or Phys. Null Follow Up?)
Time's Pulse 4
*insert Spd based Sacred Seal here*

Cyril:

Quote

Aptitude Arrows
Assist
Deadeye
Spd/Res Hexblade
Phys. NFU
Atk/Spd Oath 4
*insert Spd based Sacred Seal here*

(Hexblade is only there because it's easy to get from Febail. Even if I don't use Cyril with a mage, the +7 from the Oath bonus is good... right?)

Khadein Soren:

Quote

Arcane Euphoria +Res
Assist
AoE Special
Still Water 4
Special Spiral 3
Def/Res Ploy 3
Still Water 3

I put two of these along with my already built B!Tiki and one of the Askr Trio and they don't reduce my Arena score (as Ice said, Soren scores the same even if he has Flare and Mag NFU). Are they good units to have? I'm only going up one bin at best when I change out my existing core, but some recent units have been giving me trouble from time to time, so I thought I could at least consider making some changes.

Thank you for your input, everyone!

Edited October 8, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Ether]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Following @Ice Dragon's advice I've been tinkering with this Arena Score calculator with possible unit builds based on which units/ fodder I currently have:

Lumera:

Cyril:

(Hexblade is only there because it's easy to get from Febail. Even if I don't use Cyril with a mage, the +7 from the Oath bonus is good... right?)

Khadein Soren:

I put two of these along with my already built B!Tiki and one of the Askr Trio and they don't reduce my Arena score (as Ice said, Soren scores the same even if he has Flare and Mag NFU). Are they good units to have? I'm only going up one bin at best when I change out my existing core, but some recent units have been giving me trouble from time to time, so I thought I could at least consider making some changes.

Thank you for your input, everyone!

Lumera looks solid. Vital astra will likely give you higher performance than RS, but do note that since Lumera doesn't have slaying, TP4 only allows you to retaliate with your chosen special on your first counter on EP and does little for PP initiation. She'll want NFU seal or some sort of NFU support for sure.

Cyril is... tricky. Spd/Res hexblade isn't an ideal skill, really. It scores well, the Spd is nice, and the hexblade effect is good, but he really wants atk, and if you're not running him with a mage, it's really bad. The res isn't useless but in terms of offensive stats he'd get more from even darting blow 4 without the adaptive damage, which is widely considered an awful skill. As a filler scorestick it... functions, but I would make sure to run him with a mage until you can get him a proper A skill. He might prefer RS over deadeye just because he can fire it off more often, and already half-pierces DR because of PNFU, I can't say I know all of the calculus there.

Soren is a pretty typical support/AoE nuke, the build itself is perfectly functional. It's worth noting that without outside support, you need to fight without his AoE at least once, and while he stacks enough res that he can probably lure a weaker mage to get charge, it's important to remember that he does need to unlock his power so to speak. AoE obviously scores less than all gold border, but if it isn't bringing you down a bin, you don't need to be concerned about that.

One thing to note is that Lumera and Cyril both being red could potentially hurt in some matchups if you have, say, a red bonus hero that you're saddled with. Strong blue heroes that KSoren doesn't deal with well could mulch your team in instances like that.

[DefyingFates]

@Ether Thank you for all the feedback!

7 hours ago, Ether said:

One thing to note is that Lumera and Cyril both being red could potentially hurt in some matchups if you have, say, a red bonus hero that you're saddled with. Strong blue heroes that KSoren doesn't deal with well could mulch your team in instances like that.

I'd only run one of them at a time. Brave Tiki will still be on my Arena team for at least another year I think, unless we get another F2P unit with a trainee bonus or something.

7 hours ago, Ether said:

Lumera looks solid. Vital astra will likely give you higher performance than RS, but do note that since Lumera doesn't have slaying, TP4 only allows you to retaliate with your chosen special on your first counter on EP and does little for PP initiation. She'll want NFU seal or some sort of NFU support for sure.

I chose Ruptured Sky because then I could feed her a M!Byleth followed by a F!F!Byleth for Distant A/S Solo but I'll see if I can get Vital Astra off of the Divine Codes or something, thank you! What would you suggest to fix her Special activation troubles? I mentioned earlier that I have a spare Ced, would Special Spiral 4 and/ or Infantry Pulse 4 help her?

7 hours ago, Ether said:

Cyril is... tricky. Spd/Res hexblade isn't an ideal skill, really. It scores well, the Spd is nice, and the hexblade effect is good, but he really wants atk, and if you're not running him with a mage, it's really bad. The res isn't useless but in terms of offensive stats he'd get more from even darting blow 4 without the adaptive damage, which is widely considered an awful skill. As a filler scorestick it... functions, but I would make sure to run him with a mage until you can get him a proper A skill. He might prefer RS over deadeye just because he can fire it off more often, and already half-pierces DR because of PNFU, I can't say I know all of the calculus there.

Yeah, even when I wrote that build idea I figured he'd be put on the backburner for a while. I'll come back to him once I get some better fodder. Would he be a better recipient of Ced's kit instead for the other slots?

7 hours ago, Ether said:

Soren is a pretty typical support/AoE nuke, the build itself is perfectly functional. It's worth noting that without outside support, you need to fight without his AoE at least once, and while he stacks enough res that he can probably lure a weaker mage to get charge, it's important to remember that he does need to unlock his power so to speak. AoE obviously scores less than all gold border, but if it isn't bringing you down a bin, you don't need to be concerned about that.

Thank you for the warning! If only Quickened Pulse didn't score so low. Even if it doesn't change his score in Arena, I may go back to my original plan of hoping I get another B!Soren. I considered Time's Pulse for a moment, but losing the Ploy would be a big deal, wouldn't it?
---

P.S. We don't have a new event calendar yet, but does anyone have any safe predictions for when we'll get our next New Heroes? I'm curious about the Feh Channel we'll likely get beforehand to explain what's going on with Peony.

[Ether]

28 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Ether Thank you for all the feedback!

I'd only run one of them at a time. Brave Tiki will still be on my Arena team for at least another year I think, unless we get another F2P unit with a trainee bonus or something.

I chose Ruptured Sky because then I could feed her a M!Byleth followed by a F!F!Byleth for Distant A/S Solo but I'll see if I can get Vital Astra off of the Divine Codes or something, thank you! What would you suggest to fix her Special activation troubles? I mentioned earlier that I have a spare Ced, would Special Spiral 4 and/ or Infantry Pulse 4 help her?

Yeah, even when I wrote that build idea I figured he'd be put on the backburner for a while. I'll come back to him once I get some better fodder. Would he be a better recipient of Ced's kit instead for the other slots?

Thank you for the warning! If only Quickened Pulse didn't score so low. Even if it doesn't change his score in Arena, I may go back to my original plan of hoping I get another B!Soren. I considered Time's Pulse for a moment, but losing the Ploy would be a big deal, wouldn't it?
---

P.S. We don't have a new event calendar yet, but does anyone have any safe predictions for when we'll get our next New Heroes? I'm curious about the Feh Channel we'll likely get beforehand to explain what's going on with Peony.

The main advantage of Vital Astra over Ruptured Sky on Lumera is that you have greater control over it's damage. Ruptured depends on enemy stats whereas you know Lumera's speed. Plus sometimes she'll get the bonus damage reduction depending on how the procs wind up falling. Infantry pulse support plus time pulse 4(even 3 would work for this purpose) guaranteed she will have a precharged Vital Astra for her first phase of the combat, but she can't loop it without slaying. TP4 will be enough to make sure she procs her 2cd special of choice in any combat where she can double and doesn't face guard effects, so trying to optimize the special isn't strictly necessary. A dodge 4 skill + an unsupported VA is going to give you more defensive value than SS4 having it always up once you get it looping. SS4 provides greater offensive power since it pierces DR, but at that point you want to lean into that aspect with stuff like AS Finish rather than DC Solo.

Possibly? AS Ideal isn't ideal, typically. It's fine for what it is, especially if you can ensure to feed him bonuses to make sure he at least has 1 layer active always, but he'll miss out on bonus effects granted by better A slot options. Spiral 4 + Infantry Pulse 4 is decent. It'll support his infantry allies and pulse a 2cd special down to 1cd on turn 1, letting him loop after his first combat so long as he isn't staunched by a guard effect. Ruptured Sky will be the best special for this build. Not sure whether the PNFU build with a better A slot, or this build is better on him.

How much losing ploy will effect him mostly depends on your matchups. It's debuffs are always going to be appreciated, but you'll really miss it vs LRobin teams in particular. Considering that you're trying to boost score and thus don't want to run the full suite of support to fully precharge an AoE(in this case, TP4 + QP seal + IP4 support would instantly charge his AoE turn 1) it might be best to pivot to a different build. If nothing else the AoE build is pretty cheap to try out and see if you feel like a weaker first combat really hinders him.

Edit: Iirc, when we get seasonals early in the month, we typically see NH around the 15th to the 17th. Could be misremembering on this, but we should get a calendar within a few days.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Ether

[Ice Dragon]

11 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Lumera:

The main point to keep in mind between Ruptured Sky and Vital Astra (when you aren't building for the Dodge effect) isn't so much the fact that you have control over your damage with Vital Astra, but that in order for Ruptured Sky to hit the same amount of damage as Vital Astra against a human opponent, the opponent needs to have an Atk stat that is 1.5× higher than your Spd stat. A reasonably built Lumera will easily hit 60+ Spd, so the only time Ruptured Sky is hitting for more damage against human opponents is if they have 90+ Atk, and while it's not too uncommon for units to hit this much effective Atk, it's rare for them to hit this much actual Atk.

Obviously, if you do need Ruptured Sky's damage boost against non-human opponents or if you are building towards Vital Astra's Dodge effect, that effect is obviously more meaningful than the couple points of regular Special damage.

 

Time's Pulse 4 feels a bit weird on Lumera since at best, all it will do is lower her cooldown to 1 for the start of each round of combat. On player phase, the only difference is that she can land her Special against opponents that can't counterattack, and on enemy phase, the only difference is that she will land her Special on her first counterattack instead of her second, which really only matters if both Lumera and her opponent can double.

I would personally lean more towards Atk/Spd Oath 4.

 

Between Phys. Null Follow and Dodge 4, I think it mostly depends on how often you expect to run into opponents with weapons with the Brave effect compared to guaranteed follow-ups. Phys. Null Follow does better defensively against opponents with guaranteed follow-ups, whereas Dodge 4 does better defensively against opponents with the Brave effect. While you can run the Null Follow-Up Sacred Seal with Dodge 4 to get both effects, you're losing out on a Spd-boosting Sacred Seal, which I think is too high of a cost. (But if you have a teammate that can provide Null Follow-Up as a status effect, then definitely go with Dodge 4.)

 

12 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Cyril:

Spd/Res Hexblade is fine as a placeholder, though you'd ideally run something that boosts Atk/Spd instead.

In general, the only time I would suggest running anything other than Atk/Spd on a fast unit is if the unit's primary role is as a fast tank and has a defensive effect that is based on their Def or Res.

 

12 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Khadein Soren:

I'm always a bit leery of running an AoE Special without any way to charge it up on the first turn.

But at the same time, this is coming from someone who runs Aether on a lot of my Legendary Heroes in the Arena, which is even worse in terms of performance, but they still do well enough even without a functional Special, so it probably isn't too big of a deal.

Ideally, you'd find space for Infantry Pulse 4 somewhere on the team (on a unit with more HP than Soren, not on Soren himself since he really wants to keep his Ploy), which will fully charge Soren's Special by the start of turn 3, but that's not strictly necessary.

[DefyingFates]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:39 AM, Ice Dragon said:

I would personally lean more towards Atk/Spd Oath 4.

Is this still the case now that Atk Oath Echo is a thing? For example, while I don't think I have Spd Smoke 4 fodder at the moment, I did consider a meme Dodge tank build with it, Vital Astra and Close Call 4 with NFU as a Seal, but that's probably too gimmicky to work. (Maybe Peony's Atk/ Spd Unity instead of Distant A/S Solo too?)

On 10/9/2023 at 1:39 AM, Ice Dragon said:

I'm always a bit leery of running an AoE Special without any way to charge it up on the first turn.

Thankfully Sonya being an infantry Rearmed Hero makes Flare easier to put on Heroes, so I can just go with it and Mag NFU and put Cyril on the backburner. Speaking of Sonya, considering she doesn't have an effect that scales off of Atk like Plumeria did, would her tome be good on older units like og!Nino and if I did would Atk/Res Ploy 3 work on her? I'll definitely be spending a lot of Orbs on this banner so I'll probably have a Peony to spare for fodder even if I'm also foddering her to Lumera too. Maybe Atk/ Spd Unity for general content and G Duel Infantry 4 if I need a ranged option in Arena? I have more Pents than I know what to do with.

Either way, thanks yet again for your advice, Ice!

UPDATE: Turns out I had a spare Flame!Lyn. Would Lumera prefer the guaranteed DR from Godlike Reflexes over the 30% from Vital Astra? Thanks again, all!

Edited October 15, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Ether]

6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Is this still the case now that Atk Oath Echo is a thing? For example, while I don't think I have Spd Smoke 4 fodder at the moment, I did consider a meme Dodge tank build with it, Vital Astra and Close Call 4 with NFU as a Seal, but that's probably too gimmicky to work. (Maybe Peony's Atk/ Spd Unity instead of Distant A/S Solo too?)

Thankfully Sonya being an infantry Rearmed Hero makes Flare easier to put on Heroes, so I can just go with it and Mag NFU and put Cyril on the backburner. Speaking of Sonya, considering she doesn't have an effect that scales off of Atk like Plumeria did, would her tome be good on older units like og!Nino and if I did would Atk/Res Ploy 3 work on her? I'll definitely be spending a lot of Orbs on this banner so I'll probably have a Peony to spare for fodder even if I'm also foddering her to Lumera too. Maybe Atk/ Spd Unity for general content and G Duel Infantry 4 if I need a ranged option in Arena? I have more Pents than I know what to do with.

Either way, thanks yet again for your advice, Ice!

UPDATE: Turns out I had a spare Flame!Lyn. Would Lumera prefer the guaranteed DR from Godlike Reflexes over the 30% from Vital Astra? Thanks again, all!

The problem with the Atk Oath echo on godswords specifically is that it doesn't give the speed. You get the warp and most of the atk, but you lose 9 speed, which is going to swing so many matchups out of your favour. You could use the Atk oath alongside another spd boosting C like spd smoke 4 if you wanted to double dip, but Oath 4 is still a premier godsword C slot, and on Lumera I still wouldn't bother with time pulse. AS Unity over Distant solo is fine, but you commit her to melee matchups(Ideally with a far save ally) as opposed to all-range.

The effects of Arcane Caliburn are pretty generic, so they should work just fine on just about anyway. As for Ploy Nino... I wouldn't use it if you have a premium C on her already. She has 26 base res, + 10 from 30df and +10 stats, and a potential +2 from Resp stats puts her at 38. She'll hit a decent amount of heroes with it, but anything with high res she's gonna miss, and her statline is going to be more effective stacking speed than trying to boost res to make ploy work. Inherit it alongside the arcane still, obviously, it'll be nice to have as a flex pick for stuff like limited hero battles, but I wouldn't use it as a primary skill.

Lumera has neither slaying, nor special acceleration, making her an awful user of godlike reflexes. Even using vital astra on her is more for the damage, that you'll occasionally pop the DR is just a nice bonus

[DefyingFates]

6 minutes ago, Ether said:

The problem with the Atk Oath echo on godswords specifically is that it doesn't give the speed.

Gotcha, thanks! I'll wait for someone to show up with Spd Oath Echo then. Considering it's just a skill and not a full weapon I imagine we won't be waiting too long. And with Atk Oath Echo out, I have no need to run A/S Unity on her so back to Distant A/S Solo I go!

7 minutes ago, Ether said:

Lumera has neither slaying, nor special acceleration, making her an awful user of godlike reflexes. Even using vital astra on her is more for the damage, that you'll occasionally pop the DR is just a nice bonus

Thank you very much for the warning! I'll stick to Vital Astra then. Since CC4 comes from the same place as Distant Solo I may use that as well for now and you're saying Atk/ Spd Oath 4 is better than Spd Smoke 4 too?

11 minutes ago, Ether said:

The effects of Arcane Caliburn are pretty generic, so they should work just fine on just about anyway. As for Ploy Nino... I wouldn't use it if you have a premium C on her already. She has 26 base res, + 10 from 30df and +10 stats, and a potential +2 from Resp stats puts her at 38. She'll hit a decent amount of heroes with it, but anything with high res she's gonna miss, and her statline is going to be more effective stacking speed than trying to boost res to make ploy work. Inherit it alongside the arcane still, obviously, it'll be nice to have as a flex pick for stuff like limited hero battles, but I wouldn't use it as a primary skill.

To be honest I haven't done much with Nino, nor do I have her Resplendent. Arcane Caliburn makes charging Flare easy so I have her weapon, Special and B slot set (Mag NFU). I don't know what I can give her on top of that though. She'd like an Oath 4 skill too, wouldn't she? As I said before, I have a bunch of Pents to give her G Duel Infantry 4 and Time's Pulse, but with Caliburn's inbuilt Breath effect she doesn't really need it.

Thanks again, Ether!

[Ether]

17 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Gotcha, thanks! I'll wait for someone to show up with Spd Oath Echo then. Considering it's just a skill and not a full weapon I imagine we won't be waiting too long. And with Atk Oath Echo out, I have no need to run A/S Unity on her so back to Distant A/S Solo I go!

Thank you very much for the warning! I'll stick to Vital Astra then. Since CC4 comes from the same place as Distant Solo I may use that as well for now and you're saying Atk/ Spd Oath 4 is better than Spd Smoke 4 too?

To be honest I haven't done much with Nino, nor do I have her Resplendent. Arcane Caliburn makes charging Flare easy so I have her weapon, Special and B slot set (Mag NFU). I don't know what I can give her on top of that though. She'd like an Oath 4 skill too, wouldn't she? As I said before, I have a bunch of Pents to give her G Duel Infantry 4 and Time's Pulse, but with Caliburn's inbuilt Breath effect she doesn't really need it.

Thanks again, Ether!

CC4 is a very strong skill, so you should definitely grab and use both. As for AS Oath vs Spd Smoke... I prefer Oath quite a bit myself, but it's a preference thing. AS Oath will be active for all combats, while Smoke does nothing for your first combat in a phase, and especially in arena where it's only 4v4 that first combat can matter quite a bit. Additionally, while Spd Smoke offers a higher potential speed swing, it's easier to... disrupt, for lack of a better term? If you use Oath, the only thing that will really prevent you from gaining your boosts is debuffs and panic(something easily fixed with unity, or null panic support) or dulls/lulls while Smoke debuffing the enemy can be bad in some circumstances, such as vs unity units, or LRobin teams if you aren't running a Ploy 3, and it's visible speed buffs are just as vulnerable to the above. I also typically find that most dodgestack builds don't necessarily need the extra layer from smoke, but again, preference.

As for Nino, Oath 4 is pretty much always a solid choice, yeah. Especially if you're using Flare, the utility from Time's pulse is limited(if you were using a 2CD like Ruptured, you could precharge with Time Pulse 4 and then the acceleration would let you recharge on the opponent's counter even if they have guard, for double RS procs). AR Ploy comes with Arcane Caliburn and as I noted above, can be a decent choice to hit lower Res targets if you don't want to invest another t4 Oath worth of fodder, but she'll miss out on hefty res targets.

[DefyingFates]

3 minutes ago, Ether said:

CC4 is a very strong skill, so you should definitely grab and use both. As for AS Oath vs Spd Smoke... I prefer Oath quite a bit myself, but it's a preference thing. AS Oath will be active for all combats, while Smoke does nothing for your first combat in a phase, and especially in arena where it's only 4v4 that first combat can matter quite a bit. Additionally, while Spd Smoke offers a higher potential speed swing, it's easier to... disrupt, for lack of a better term? If you use Oath, the only thing that will really prevent you from gaining your boosts is debuffs and panic(something easily fixed with unity, or null panic support) or dulls/lulls while Smoke debuffing the enemy can be bad in some circumstances, such as vs unity units, or LRobin teams if you aren't running a Ploy 3, and it's visible speed buffs are just as vulnerable to the above. I also typically find that most dodgestack builds don't necessarily need the extra layer from smoke, but again, preference.

Thanks! So I'll go with Vital Astra, Distant A/S Solo, CC4, A/S Oath 4 with NFU in the Seal slot for now, since my only copy of Phys FU right now is a second Febail. It doesn't seem like Spd/Res Hexblade has any potential users outside of some incredibly small niche but... yeah. Let me know if I should fodder him though!

5 minutes ago, Ether said:

As for Nino, Oath 4 is pretty much always a solid choice, yeah. Especially if you're using Flare, the utility from Time's pulse is limited(if you were using a 2CD like Ruptured, you could precharge with Time Pulse 4 and then the acceleration would let you recharge on the opponent's counter even if they have guard, for double RS procs). AR Ploy comes with Arcane Caliburn and as I noted above, can be a decent choice to hit lower Res targets if you don't want to invest another t4 Oath worth of fodder, but she'll miss out on hefty res targets.

I forgot I have some spare Fallen Morgans for A/R Menace and a Nott for A/S Menace if those count for anything? Since Nott has DC I could also give her to Lumera.

If not I guess I'll go for Arcane Caliburnus +Spd, [G Duel Infantry 4/ something else for general use], Flare, Mag FU, A/S Oath 4 and... some other speed booster in the S Slot.

Thanks again! Please let me know if there's anything I can add!

[Ether]

33 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Thanks! So I'll go with Vital Astra, Distant A/S Solo, CC4, A/S Oath 4 with NFU in the Seal slot for now, since my only copy of Phys FU right now is a second Febail. It doesn't seem like Spd/Res Hexblade has any potential users outside of some incredibly small niche but... yeah. Let me know if I should fodder him though!

I forgot I have some spare Fallen Morgans for A/R Menace and a Nott for A/S Menace if those count for anything? Since Nott has DC I could also give her to Lumera.

If not I guess I'll go for Arcane Caliburnus +Spd, [G Duel Infantry 4/ something else for general use], Flare, Mag FU, A/S Oath 4 and... some other speed booster in the S Slot.

Thanks again! Please let me know if there's anything I can add!

Febail is still good fodder for PNFU alone. Spd/Res Hexblade is... it's fine as a filler t4 skill, it just isn't ideal. The way to look at it is, in order for the hexblade effect to do more for you than having another skill in A that has +7 atk, then the enemy needs to have 7 or higher excess defense compared to their res. There are plenty of enemies that this will apply to, and some it will apply to in excess, but the problem is... that just brings s/r hexblade up to par with skills like Swift Sparrow 3 or Solo 4, which aren't really considered more than filler if you have nothing better at this point in time. In order to match damage with, say, Finish, the enemy needs to have 12 more defense, and you still have no answer for the healing from Finish. Sure the +7 res lets you take less damage from magic foes, but finish will heal you vs every enemy type.

As for menaces vs Oaths, Oaths are generally better. Menaces don't let you do super long dancer/warp engagements due to the range on the debuffs, and oaths have a higher floor(+9 pretty much always vs +6, and potential +6/-6 if you specifically attack the debuffed target), not to mention the warp utility. Menaces are still fine, and more accessible, but I would pick Oath over Menace most of the time. Distant solo does lessen the impact of the warp a bit for player phase engagements, but keeping within 2 to satisfy both oath and solo is pretty easy for EP.