Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[mcsilas]

So I pulled a +Def Summer Frederick today. (Don't remember the bane, it's either -HP or -Res, I remember he didn't have the dread Atk/Spd bane)

Am I right in saying Bonfire would be his best proc, compared to say Luna/Moonbow? His Defense isn't as high as normal Frederick, but theoretically I think it's still good enough?

I mean he will be a support unit, but burst damage is always good. And if I do use Bonfire, would it stack with Armored Blow or should I use a different A slot skill?

Any other skills recommended for him?

 

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

So I pulled a +Def Summer Frederick today. (Don't remember the bane, it's either -HP or -Res, I remember he didn't have the dread Atk/Spd bane)

Am I right in saying Bonfire would be his best proc, compared to say Luna/Moonbow? His Defense isn't as high as normal Frederick, but theoretically I think it's still good enough?

I mean he will be a support unit, but burst damage is always good. And if I do use Bonfire, would it stack with Armored Blow or should I use a different A slot skill?

Any other skills recommended for him?

You can check the calculator. Bonfire does more kills compared to Luna when your set their cool down to zero.

Armored Blow contributes to Bonfire.

[KMT4ever]

I just pulled Sanaki (+Res/-Def), but I'm not aware of the best builds for her. I have no intention of spending 20,000 feathers to give her Rauorraven, especially since I don't have anyone to give Triangle Adept, so that's out of the question. For context, my plan is to stick her on my defense team along with a tricked-out Julia, Linde, and Eirika.

1. For an A-skill I was just going to go with Fury 3 whenever I get another Hinata, but would Death Blow 3 work better? I have 2 4* Kleins, and I can sacrifice one. Sanaki is a one-hit wonder, so allowing her to maximize that one hit's power would be good. Or would Triangle Adept still work well?
2. For B-skills Swordbreaker 3 is the norm and an option I like, but I only have one Abel that I'd prefer to not give up if possible. Are there any other good picks?
3. Because of Eirika there's not much point to keeping Hone Atk/Spd 3, my first two choices, so what else would be useful?
4. I doubt Sanaki needs an assist skill, but if she does, which one? I don't plan to use her offensively, but if I did would Reposition be worthwhile?
5. For a special should she have Moonbow or Iceberg? The former does charge quicker, but I doubt she'd ever survive long enough while defending, so the latter for extra damage when I'm controlling her would be nice. I'm not sure though.

[MrSmokestack]

14 minutes ago, KMT4ever said:

I have no intention of spending 20,000 feathers to give her Rauorraven, especially since I don't have anyone to give Triangle Adept, so that's out of the question. For context, my plan is to stick her on my defense team along with a tricked-out Julia, Linde, and Eirika.

1. For an A-skill I was just going to go with Fury 3 whenever I get another Hinata, but would Death Blow 3 work better? I have 2 4* Kleins, and I can sacrifice one. Sanaki is a one-hit wonder, so allowing her to maximize that one hit's power would be good. Or would Triangle Adept still work well?
2. For B-skills Swordbreaker 3 is the norm and an option I like, but I only have one Abel that I'd prefer to not give up if possible. Are there any other good picks?
3. Because of Eirika there's not much point to keeping Hone Atk/Spd 3, my first two choices, so what else would be useful?
4. I doubt Sanaki needs an assist skill, but if she does, which one? I don't plan to use her offensively, but if I did would Reposition be worthwhile?
5. For a special should she have Moonbow or Iceberg? The former does charge quicker, but I doubt she'd ever survive long enough while defending, so the latter for extra damage when I'm controlling her would be nice. I'm not sure though.

But she comes with Triangle Adept already? Seems like a small contradiction there.

Sanaki's better builds involve getting rid of her Prf weapon, as it's a bit underwhelming compared to -Blade and Raven.

Anyway,

1. The order goes Triangle Adept < Death Blow < Fury < Life and Death. Fury would work better for your purposes if you don't have LaD to give her. Both passives patch up her Spd and reduce the number of foes that double her too.

2. Swordbreaker is her best option, but Wings of Mercy is a nice touch for arena defense.

3. Any passive that you think would help her teammates. Spur Atk is the easiest to use and what I would recommend.

4. As a ranged unit, she wants Draw Back the most for her assist.

5. Iceberg for all scenarios.

Hope that helps. You really should invest in a -Raven or -Blade tome for her though, especially the latter for OHKO's.

[Astellius]

3 hours ago, KMT4ever said:

I just pulled Sanaki (+Res/-Def), but I'm not aware of the best builds for her. I have no intention of spending 20,000 feathers to give her Rauorraven, especially since I don't have anyone to give Triangle Adept, so that's out of the question. For context, my plan is to stick her on my defense team along with a tricked-out Julia, Linde, and Eirika.

I second most of what MrSmokestack said. But I'll point out that, if you have a spare Sully, you could throw Swordbreaker 2 on her, since it's functionally equivalent for her. This is a defense team, so it's not like you have to worry about maximizing points on the pairings or anything like that.

Additionally, I also think it would be fine for her to keep her native Hone Atk 3. The computer doesn't position to maximize buffs, so having multiple characters run buffs helps with that. But this slot is pretty flexible. Since you'd be running 3 mages, Threaten Res 3 would be pretty nice.

[KMT4ever]

7 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

 

4 hours ago, Astellius said:

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Until I get another Hinata and Abel I'll just go with TA 3 + Swordbreaker 2 + Hone Atk 3, Draw Back, and Iceberg. As for her tome, I'm keeping that more because I have a thing about not getting rid of 5* units outside of merging. It also fits the theme I'm trying to make with the defense team (please don't laugh ): Maidens of Maximum Magical Might.

[Vaximillian]

I wonder which B I should put on a Blárblade Ursula. I’m keeping her DB3 as her A, and her C will eventually be Fortify Cavalry (as soon as I get those damned feathers out of way)

Do I go for a breaker? If yes, sword or lance? If not, maybe Desperation? She has 32+6 Spd, so might double some people. Other ideas?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

I wonder which B I should put on a Blárblade Ursula. I’m keeping her DB3 as her A, and her C will eventually be Fortify Cavalry (as soon as I get those damned feathers out of way)

Do I go for a breaker? If yes, sword or lance? If not, maybe Desperation? She has 32+6 Spd, so might double some people. Other ideas?

Desperation is mostly cute for TT. Usually the target is Nino/Merric/Boey/Hector. But this only reach its potential if you run LnD2 at least imo

For practical purpose Lancebreaker is best its because Ursula is kinda borderline on handling Azura and this make her double Effie for what it worth. Since you mentioned DB Ursula, 38 speed fails to double most variation of Azura. A HUGE target for Lancebreaker is Clair 

 

Sword doesnt matter much since only GHB Lloyd and WF Zephiel can really survive Ursula. Arena Red just die if you stare at them with HC BB Ursula. Red Tome is nice for PvE particularly Cellica but you have Reinhardt for that anyway

Edited July 26, 2017 by JSND

[Tenzen12]

Lyn with TA3 yes/no?

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Lyn with TA3 yes/no?

Depends on her teammates. If her allied glass cannons can take care of everything except green, then Triangle Adept is fine. If the glass cannons can already knock out greens, then Life and Death would suit Lyn better.

[Tenzen12]

Dunno about teammates, I pretty much didn't touch Lyn after IS got implemented. I don't intent use her in arena either. So yeah I want make most of her Niche and stats. When it come to Glass cannons you would like them have high attack from beginning. Which is not something she posses. From my PoV she is unit with solid tanking ability who opperate well on low HP as contradicting it is. I was thinking with TA she could actually took hit even after having HP shaved down to optimal value even if it is just from certain enemies

While it's true I don't have red meele glass cannon yet, I could build Lucina, who is much more suited for it imho, for that.

. 

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Dunno about teammates, I pretty much didn't touch Lyn after IS got implemented. I don't intent use her in arena either. So yeah I want make most of her Niche and stats. When it come to Glass cannons you would like them have high attack from beginning. Which is not something she posses. From my PoV she is unit with solid tanking ability who opperate well on low HP as contradicting it is. I was thinking with TA she could actually took hit even after having HP shaved down to optimal value even if it is just from certain enemies

While it's true I don't have red meele glass cannon yet, I could build Lucina, who is much more suited for it imho, for that.

Triangle Adept cripples her offensive potential against blue units though, and it does not contribute to her offensive power against her own color.

With +Atk, Sol Katti, and Life and Death, she can reach a respectable 52 Attack. Brash Assault allows her Sol Katti to operate like a Brave Weapon against melee units when she is low on health, and that is about her only niche.

[Beddlam]

5 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Dunno about teammates, I pretty much didn't touch Lyn after IS got implemented. I don't intent use her in arena either. So yeah I want make most of her Niche and stats. When it come to Glass cannons you would like them have high attack from beginning. Which is not something she posses. From my PoV she is unit with solid tanking ability who opperate well on low HP as contradicting it is. I was thinking with TA she could actually took hit even after having HP shaved down to optimal value even if it is just from certain enemies

While it's true I don't have red meele glass cannon yet, I could build Lucina, who is much more suited for it imho, for that.

. 

I like Fury for her A slot: it helps her get into Sol Katti Range by applying non-lethal damage while also increasing her bulk so she is less likely to get one-shot. Brash Assault combines well with Sol Katti but with her superior speed is usually redundant. I think Escape Route can be especially effective on her, allowing her get in or out of combat once she is in Sol Katti range. 

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Triangle Adept cripples her offensive potential against blue units though, and it does not contribute to her offensive power against her own color.

With +Atk, Sol Katti, and Life and Death, she can reach a respectable 52 Attack. Brash Assault allows her Sol Katti to operate like a Brave Weapon against melee units when she is low on health, and that is about her only niche.

The problem with an offensive Lyn is that Chrom does more damage with a Brave-sword than Lyn does with her Sol Katti. The only reason to use Lyn over Chrom would be for her defensive speed tier (since Brave 2x hit means her offensive speed doesn't matter, unless you're running a brave-sword Lyn build, which is probably better done by Hana, Lucina, and the like).

Chrom also gets to pack a breaker since brave is basically desperation & brash in one combo, meaning his B-slot is completely free.

 

Also, L&D builds have Lyn with basically the same physical bulk as Chrom, even if we assume Chrom always gets doubled and Lyn never gets doubled. Lyn gets 58 physical bulk versus a single hit, whereas Chrom has 47 + 31 +31 = 109 bulk versus 2 hits, assuming he's running DB 3. 58 * 2 = 116, which is only 7 above Chrom's double hit bulk, or about a single defense buff's worth.

Lyn does have the better magical bulk, since Chrom's huge hp doesn't help versus doubles, but any competent mage should be murdering both of them anyway.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

The problem with an offensive Lyn is that Chrom does more damage with a Brave-sword than Lyn does with her Sol Katti. The only reason to use Lyn over Chrom would be for her defensive speed tier (since Brave 2x hit means her offensive speed doesn't matter, unless you're running a brave-sword Lyn build, which is probably better done by Hana, Lucina, and the like).

Chrom also gets to pack a breaker since brave is basically desperation & brash in one combo, meaning his B-slot is completely free.

Also, L&D builds have Lyn with basically the same physical bulk as Chrom, even if we assume Chrom always gets doubled and Lyn never gets doubled. Lyn gets 58 physical bulk versus a single hit, whereas Chrom has 47 + 31 +31 = 109 bulk versus 2 hits, assuming he's running DB 3. 58 * 2 = 116, which is only 7 above Chrom's double hit bulk, or about a single defense buff's worth.

Lyn does have the better magical bulk, since Chrom's huge hp doesn't help versus doubles, but any competent mage should be murdering both of them anyway.

But Lyn is not built exactly for defense or Enemy Phase builds either. Optimizing Lyn means abandoning her niche with Sol Katti for the standard Brave Sword build, which I assume @Tenzen12 does not want to do. Sol Katti and Brash assault combo is about as niche as it gets while still be able to achieve slightly over 100 wins in the calculator with some help from Life and Death and an Attack boon.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

But Lyn is not built exactly for defense or Enemy Phase builds either. Optimizing Lyn means abandoning her niche with Sol Katti for the standard Brave Sword build, which I assume @Tenzen12 does not want to do. Sol Katti and Brash assault combo is about as niche as it gets while still be able to achieve slightly over 100 wins in the calculator with some help from Life and Death and an Attack boon.

That's a problem with Lyn being out-classed in general. Sol Katti & Brash isn't a niche because Chrom does literally the same thing, except without a B-slot expenditure or 50% hp requirement off the back of his 9 higher Atk stat. The difference between Brave and Prf is only 8 MT.

 

Any viable set she runs would have her closer to Selena than Chrom, a fast, reasonably bulky (for single hits) red sword that relies on her speed tier for offensive ability. The difference between her and Selena is that, for Silver Sword variants, Lyn has a 4 Atk lead and a 2 speed lead, at the cost of 6 less def. (Lyn's 1 res lead isn't really too relevant.) This means Selena performs a lot better over multiple combats versus physicals, but Lyn does better acting as player phase removal for mages (Selena wants Fury 3, L&D, or Brave Sword to secure certain mage KOs, but Lyn can run something like atk/def 2 or the like off the back of her higher offensive stats).

Brash Desperation is a trap, in my opinion---a bulky Lyn set still has the offenses to be a threat after a counter-kill, thanks to free desperation, regardless of brash being active---so running brash on her is just a waste of a B-slot that could've been renewal for things like TT, a breaker or guard for arena (guard fucks up a lot of sets reliant on specials to do damage), or even a mobility B-slot (not too great for Lyn since her offenses are only barely passable, but more mobility is more options).

[Tenzen12]

I heard people give her Vantage, though I don't see her one shot anyone important...

Anyway I can see Brash attack be thing considering how inflated enemy stats get at some modes...

Edited July 27, 2017 by Tenzen12

[DehNutCase]

7 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

I heard people give her Vantage, though I don't see her one shot anyone important...

Vantage for people like Anna and Lyn is more like an offensive QR than anything: You get 3 hits rather than 2 with Vantage compared to 2 rather than 1 with QR.

That said, the circumstances where something like that is useful is rather rare: You'd have to not be ORKOd and only 3HKO. (Or it's a speed tie where both characters 2HKO, Vantage owns in that kind of situation.) Mind, Anna and Lyn are probably two that benefit the most from that, given that their Atk isn't exactly stellar. On defense teams Vantage is great on everyone, though, since it adds more chip damage vs. the enemy team and can finish off some low hp units.

Edit: Personally I'd use any of the Lyns I get as Galeforce fodder, but that's just me.

Edited July 27, 2017 by DehNutCase

[TheTuckingFypo]

Oh boy.... Sometimes tinkering with SI is fun, but dangerous...

Spoiler

For some reason, I've decided that my +ATK/-DEF Marth will inherit Fury, Renewal, Spur Attack and Reciprocal Aid, so he can support my +HP/-ATK Delthea, whose Miracle I've replaced with Glacies. 

....

Maybe I should throw my +DEF/-SPD Cherche in the mix too.... hmmmm...

Shenanigans at its finest.

@MrSmokestack @Oboro! @Rezzy - because you guys get honorary passes to see how bad I fucked up XD

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Oh boy.... Sometimes tinkering with SI is fun, but dangerous...

  Hide contents

For some reason, I've decided that my +ATK/-DEF Marth will inherit Fury, Renewal, Spur Attack and Reciprocal Aid, so he can support my +HP/-ATK Delthea, whose Miracle I've replaced with Glacies. 

....

Maybe I should throw my +DEF/-SPD Cherche in the mix too.... hmmmm...

Shenanigans at its finest.

@MrSmokestack @Oboro! @Rezzy - because you guys get honorary passes to see how bad I fucked up XD

That build looks very similar to the build I had for Alm that I had for Tempest Trials.  I've been using him for Chain Challenges, too.  The only additional thing my Alm has is his default special Dranic Aura.

[TheTuckingFypo]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

That build looks very similar to the build I had for Alm that I had for Tempest Trials.  I've been using him for Chain Challenges, too.  The only additional thing my Alm has is his default special Dranic Aura.

Oh? Do tell. 

My idea was that Marth, with Falcy and Renewal will heal a shit ton. Delthea acts as his offensive support with her tome and Drive atk. Marth can whack peeps with his +9 atk boost (+6 from tome, +3 from Drive) on top of the Fury and his +ATK nature. (54 w/Fury is nuts... now add 9). He can so Reciprocal Aid Delthea if she needs it. 

So Marth is essentially her heal shield.

I haven't decided on a Special for him yet. Any ideas?

[Arcanite]

20 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

That build looks very similar to the build I had for Alm that I had for Tempest Trials.  I've been using him for Chain Challenges, too.  The only additional thing my Alm has is his default special Dranic Aura.

@TheTuckingFypo I did the same thing too, fury renewal Alm with Draconic Aura as the special and Reciprocal Aid for healer support!

 

16 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Oh? Do tell. 

My idea was that Marth, with Falcy and Renewal will heal a shit ton. Delthea acts as his offensive support with her tome and Drive atk. Marth can whack peeps with his +9 atk boost (+6 from tome, +3 from Drive) on top of the Fury and his +ATK nature. (54 w/Fury is nuts... now add 9). He can so Reciprocal Aid Delthea if she needs it. 

So Marth is essentially her heal shield.

I haven't decided on a Special for him yet. Any ideas?

Side note: Delthea really likes brave weapons, since drive attack adds 3 in addition to the 6 for +9 which turns into +18 since it's a guaranteed 2 hits 

Then quad attacks make it +36 heh 

But special he'll probably want Draconic Aura because as you already know, his attack is REALLY high heh

[MrSmokestack]

32 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Oh boy.... Sometimes tinkering with SI is fun, but dangerous...

  Hide contents

For some reason, I've decided that my +ATK/-DEF Marth will inherit Fury, Renewal, Spur Attack and Reciprocal Aid, so he can support my +HP/-ATK Delthea, whose Miracle I've replaced with Glacies. 

....

Maybe I should throw my +DEF/-SPD Cherche in the mix too.... hmmmm...

Shenanigans at its finest.

@MrSmokestack @Oboro! @Rezzy - because you guys get honorary passes to see how bad I fucked up XD

It's actually not a bad build, but it works better for PvE modes like CC and TT than Arena of course.

You have Brave Axe Cherche too, yes?

For Arena Marth, Fury / Swordbreaker / Reposition is pretty standard. Delthea's default kit is fantastic but she makes good use of a weaponbreaker to allievate her poor Spd tier somewhat. If you can, replace her Death Blow with LaD, Swift Sparrow, or even Fury, but DB is fine for now. Besides that, Draconic Aura in place of Glacies is a no-brainer.

EDIT: Derp

Edited July 29, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[TheTuckingFypo]

38 minutes ago, Oboro! said:

@TheTuckingFypo I did the same thing too, fury renewal Alm with Draconic Aura as the special and Reciprocal Aid for healer support!

 

Side note: Delthea really likes brave weapons, since drive attack adds 3 in addition to the 6 for +9 which turns into +18 since it's a guaranteed 2 hits 

Then quad attacks make it +36 heh 

But special he'll probably want Draconic Aura because as you already know, his attack is REALLY high heh

The +9 is what delthea give Marth in atk when he stands next to her and attacks things near her.

I opted for dragon fang on Marth. It ko'd everyone except like two heroes. I don't remember who though.

37 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

It's actually not a bad build, but it works better for PvE modes like CC and TT than Arena of course.

You have Brave Axe Cherche too, yes?

For Arena Marth, Fury / Swordbreaker / Reposition is pretty standard. Delthea's default kit is fantastic but she makes good use of a weaponbreaker to allievate her poor Spd tier somewhat. If you can, replace her Death Blow with LaD, Swift Sparrow, or even Fury, but DB is fine for now. Besides that, Draconic Aura in place of Glacies is a no-brainer.

EDIT: Derp

I have a +Def/-Spd Cherche. She doesn't have brave axe yet, but she will. She's getting fury for sure though, too. I need more Hinata in my life lol.

yea, draconic aura beat glacies by 3 dmg. I'll do that when I get a unit with it.

i didn't have a b skill selected yet. I'm not sure what breaker skill to put there, or if I'd rather give her something like QR.

[MrSmokestack]

21 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

I opted for dragon fang on Marth. It ko'd everyone except like two heroes. I don't remember who though.

I have a +Def/-Spd Cherche. She doesn't have brave axe yet, but she will. She's getting fury for sure though, too. I need more Hinata in my life lol.

i didn't have a b skill selected yet. I'm not sure what breaker skill to put there, or if I'd rather give her something like QR.

Draconic Aura works better in Arena, but Fang has a niche for Tempest Trials at least.

Cherche does better with Death Blow or even default Atk +3. Best save that Fury for somebody else in my opinion.

Swordbreaker or Lancebreaker for Delthea. She's much too frail to use Quick Riposte against enemy ranged especially when stuff like Reinhardt and Bride Cordelia exist. I'm leaning towards Lancebreaker for her though since Marth can use Swordbreaker or Renewal as his B depending on the game mode.