We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

It's less him and more that there are too many people that I would not lynch today.  At the moment, my scum category is just Lord Gaius lol and my null is Makaze/Walrein/Arcanite/Snike and I'm trying to clear away those nulls.  Also this is unfair but I don't get why Scum!Shinori would give him the item (yeah, I said earlier that I didn't think Snike would claim it on thread but if Shinori was planning on claiming Inventor, it makes sense) and why he'd target the Martyr if he didn't believe the claim.  Just seems fishy to me.  Also I'm bothered by Snike and LG agreeing that there was probably a Serial Killer when there was no definitive proof at the time; would make sense coming from scum especially if scum's kill failed on N1.  ALSO ALSO it's weird to me that he didn't followup on his LG read despite being willing to turbo him on the previous night.

Most interesting thing for me that I want cleared up is why two flipped scum went after Eclipse yesterday over ZKirsche.

Oh, that's a trail worth following. What are the odds that a wolf hasn't publicly speculated an SK by now? Low. Has it just been those two?

Snike has been rolespeccing the entire game, driving me up a wall to be honest. Does he does as a villager a lot?

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Snike said:

Do we think weapons looks better or worse with this flip?  That page 57 post by weapons has him saying the case on JB was easy and scum was probably pushing it which is obviously wrong now but then the shinori vote's still a minor problem. But then JB's case on weapons was v bad. Could this just be scum defend/scum bus?

Also, reminder: I lateclaimed the godfather scan modifier on my role (role miller) + a night action that doesn't make sense for scum when the jan kill was obviously on BBM. Especially wrt the first, why would I do that as scum? Like I would be buddies with Shinori in this scenario so there's no reason why satsuma wouldn't have been told to claim that immediately by Scumnori.

I would be down with gaius/makaze/weapons today. I felt better about gaius earlier (esp with my read on bbm being wrong) but he is still part of that vote block. Makaze I've been reading as null but his scumteam just blew up.

@Refa Did you see my clarification on the SK thing? I've also already said that I thought kirsche was town and moving the martyr there when it was on kaoz was a gamble because I thought he would die next.

@KillthestoryWho did kirsche target last night?

WRT Weapons, it seems too inconsistent.  Him defending JB and voting Shinori is something I could see him doing as scum.  JB making a bad case on him (surely if they're scumbuddies, JB could go for something better) doesn't add up to me.

Oh right, that's a good point WRT Shinori being there to tell Satsuma to claim Role Miller.  Actually never mind, you're probably town sorry.  Just for completion's sake though, I don't see why your night action doesn't make sense as scum.

Snike, I missed it, what happened WRT the SK thing?  For the record, I don't think your action is obviously scummy but something I could see you doing as scum.

I wonder!!!!!

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Refa, didn't Makaze speculate an ITP/SK as well?

The plot thickens. That said, I really hope this doesn't become an ITP hunt for too long. The way LG said "weird vibes but not sure if wolf" on Refa N2 looks like an SK hunt.

[Refa]

I'm not gunning for ITP!  I have my guesses honestly but don't want to out because it'll just make people paranoid of townreads.

6 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Oh, that's a trail worth following. What are the odds that a wolf hasn't publicly speculated an SK by now? Low. Has it just been those two?

Snike has been rolespeccing the entire game, driving me up a wall to be honest. Does he does as a villager a lot?

I'm pretty sure it was just the two of them.  Did Makaze do it as well?

Honestly Omega, I haven't played w/Snike much more than you have.  I think he does, though.

##Vote: Lord Gaius

Eclipse push yesterday + SK speculation + weak Walrein push today + Weird fixation on Mackc2/Nightmare slot

[Snike]

My correction was what people thought made me agree w/ gaius when I meant it to avoid the term wolf around fable;

I said serial killer*.

I intended it to look like this

16 hours ago, Snike said:

I was thinking 6/7 just because slotcount is 22, there was a comment about like 5/1 potentially if there was a Serial Killer.

Speaking of, I don't know if that shinori shot was more vig oriented or sk oriented on shinori? Given gamestate I'd say vig but no one's claimed it yet.

and I think people took it as this:

16 hours ago, Snike said:

I was thinking 6/7 just because slotcount is 22, there was a comment about like 5/1 potentially if there was a wolf.

Speaking of, I don't know if that shinori shot was more vig oriented or sk oriented on shinori? Given gamestate I'd say Serial Killer but no one's claimed it yet.

Like I'll admit I brought up the option but I thought at the time it was a vig shot and a little odd that no one claimed it.

[Makaze]

4 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Refa, didn't Makaze speculate an ITP/SK as well?

The plot thickens. That said, I really hope this doesn't become an ITP hunt for too long. The way LG said "weird vibes but not sure if wolf" on Refa N2 looks like an SK hunt.

I have a habit of role speccing and to this day I have never Mafia on SF.

I believe we have nothing to gain by vig speccing but I believe we have pretty much confirmed that an ITP exists. I also think my Weapons read makes sense as an ITP slot. He doesn't fit with the rest of the confirmed scum, but his behavior definitely doesn't seem town-aligned to me.

[Refa]

Oh uh I fucked up then, my bad Snike.

[Makaze]

While Omega. has many reasons to be confirmed town, I am noticing a lot of shading in every possible direction. Contrary to previous, I think he is just asking questions for the sake of asking questions.

Omega., are you genuinely lost or...?

[Makaze]

never randed* sorry

Also if we are rolespeccing I think there is very little chance of a town vig and a town day vig, especially with some of the protective powers we have seen.

[Makaze]

Reread Lord Gaius because I couldn't remember why I was townreading him. I'm not sure why I townread him, but I think it's worth noting that he has been "willing to lynch" JB since early D1? I think this could easily be argued as reading the flow and reads parking though, it would look more odd to actively jump off without cause.

On 4/16/2018 at 1:21 PM, Lord Gaius said:

I need the night phase to get caught up on the full readthrough, hold me to it if I don't finish by D3 morning. 

I've skimmed the cases on the table for today. I would want to lynch Eclipse today if that can happen, very non committal to holding any one stance wrt bartozio lynch, abundance of null reads. I'm not seeing scum!athena for aforementioned reasons + the fact that  

Can someone summarize Junko case for me? I'm still missing a lot of pieces of the game :x

I think this is really relevant, regardless of in game circumstances I'm trying to imagine myself doing this and there's no chance in hell i'd do it as scum.

can someone make a list of claims for me?

##Vote: Eclipse

Never w/w with eclipse (probably my original reasoning for clearing him)

16 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

I also want to believe that it was more like a SK than a vig on Shinori. 

Walrein has flaked end of phase both day and seems to always be in positions where you can't draw any serious interactions between him except for those early ones with Via which a lot of people seemed to townread for, and I'm worried that Walrein has gained towncred because of how people trust Via. 

Agree with  what Fable is saying here.

 ##Vote Walrein:

I strongly townread Walrein and I think this sheep is bad. In fact I strongly dislike this post entirely.

I think Lord Gaius is Mafia, with minor misgivings about JB case. However, his origiinal JB case is bad and he just parks there, and tries to make it a Mackc2/JB associative. A big part of me thinks he was setting up a mislynch on Mack/Nightmare becase he knows JB is Mafia, and he was planning to ride that consensus scumread into getting a townclear.

[Makaze]

14 minutes ago, Makaze said:

While Omega. has many reasons to be confirmed town, I am noticing a lot of shading in every possible direction. Contrary to previous, I think he is just asking questions for the sake of asking questions.

Omega., are you genuinely lost or...?

This wasn't a joke BTW. I'd like to understand why you're doing this. @Omega.

[Makaze]

##Vote Lord Gaius

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I tend to shade nulls/wolf leans as villa and/or villagers in bad positions as wolf. The former to keep them in that position and/or see how others react. The latter for obvious reasons. Plus I tend to try and not trust anyone in these games.

It's probably something I do without even realizing I do it consciously. I hadn't even known I was doing it here 'til you pointed it out, then thought about it and recognized that I have been.

[SullyMcGully]

I would rather have an LG blitz than the Makaze/Eclipse thing everybody seems to be all about. Still thinking over Mack, though.

[SullyMcGully]

*lynch. Not blitz. Too much EiMM.

[Snike]

12 hours ago, Baldrick said:

@snike

You alternate between wanting to lynch Junko because he's scummy, and not wanting to lynch him for other reasons (scumreads are voting him, his role). I can't reconcile that you say you believe him, but you wanted an investigation role on him. For kirsche, I don't think the idea of lynching between the networkers should have superseded your disinterest in lynching him; just because networkers can contain scum, doesn't mean they will contain scum.

I'll be to the point: what happened to your gaius read? you were confident enough LD2 to lynch him without a claim, but you haven't talked about anything he's said N2 and D3, or even pushed how he's acting like a lyncher now that there's not a scramble to get a lynch.

@Arcanite

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?

If you know what you're doing that's OK, but if you don't:

Read the end of Day 2: (pages 60-68) and look at what people say about the major wagons (junko, kirsche, eclipse). If you don't get anything from that, read the beginning of Day 3: (69-75) and comment on the cases that have been made.

I thought the roleclaim was accurate but roles != alignment. And that's just your opinion on latter.

I'm going to be honest shinori flip + BBM Jan threw me for a loop so I backed off gaius on that. In addition I thought his d3 was better. Now that JB has flipped;

These

On 4/16/2018 at 7:08 PM, Lord Gaius said:

Nobody had actually made a defense of Eclipse and I think people are staying on Junko / this BS Kirsche wagon out of laziness and being afraid to change. Junkos play doesn't make sense from a scum slot but I don't see why that makes Kirsche scum, since most ppl are flipping away from Junko on tone / meta / playstyle as opposed to any form of analysis like what Kirsche was pushing him for, so the fact that one of these has to be scum is not true imo.

Nobody I've seen has reservations for eclipse beyond I'm not feeling it as much and I think junko / Kirsche are town town .

On 4/16/2018 at 7:24 PM, Lord Gaius said:

lmfao im never playing NOC again if I get lynched here. Nobody has told me why eclipse isn't viable or addressed any of my points on why Kirsche is getting cased. 

Still look bad given I was vocal about not wanting to lynch eclipse yesterday. It was after former in particular that I called the turbo; and the response was after myself and (scum!Shinori) talked about turbos but like Shinori was only talking about BBM at the time?

[Refa]

3 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

I would rather have an LG blitz than the Makaze/Eclipse thing everybody seems to be all about. Still thinking over Mack, though.

Makaze's actions are null but I think his switch off of Eclipse was natural and I'm tonereading him as town.

Eclipse was just me being dumb.

Can you explain the fixation on Mackc2?

Also mreh, I don't see LG making that comment about never playing NOC again as scum; he's been mislynched the past few NOC games he's played for reference, which is where I assume the frustration is coming from.  Still want him to reply to the cases on him, but gonna take a step back from the game for a while so I can get my thoughts sorted out.

##Unvote

[charlie_]

Day 3.5 Votals
Lord Gaius (3): Kaoz, Omega., Makaze
Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy (2): Baldrick
Walrein (2): Fable, Lord Gaius
Mackc2 (1): SullyMcGully

Not Voting: Everyone Else

There are ~52.75 hours left in the day. With 17 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 12 to hammer.

[Killthestory]

59 minutes ago, Omega. said:

lmao.

##Vote: [playername] in bold.

dont play with me with me WOLF. u have a wolfgame on this site yet for people to respect u or wat?

btw i networked walrein and im still figuring what that means. i hope my slots already obvtowned so one of u can explain to me how my role functions.

[Killthestory]

where should i start reading? i tried reading from the beginning and saw people not in the game and got bored. i wanna play sooner than later lol.

[SullyMcGully]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Makaze's actions are null but I think his switch off of Eclipse was natural and I'm tonereading him as town.

Eclipse was just me being dumb.

Can you explain the fixation on Mackc2?

Also mreh, I don't see LG making that comment about never playing NOC again as scum; he's been mislynched the past few NOC games he's played for reference, which is where I assume the frustration is coming from.  Still want him to reply to the cases on him, but gonna take a step back from the game for a while so I can get my thoughts sorted out.

##Unvote

Mack's actual play has been scummy, IMO. Where things get cloudy is associative reads and his roleclaim. The general consensus seems to be that his role probably wouldn't come from scum (can't contribute there, IDK meta). Associative reads are kinda messy. A few scum players (IIRC, need to reread) cast shade on his slot but backed off. The same could be said for town like Kirsche though. However, with the fact that his slot as town seems (or at least has seemed in the past) ripe for mislynch, I'd be surprised if scum never made a move to do so. Unless, of course, he is scum.

So what I'm looking for is any case of confirmed scum trying to create a Mack wagon. If they did, simple case of scum going for an easy target. If they didn't, probably trying to avoid drawing attention to a scumbuddy who might be less capable of defending themselves.

TBH I don't think I'd actually support a Mack lynch at this point. But I feel like he's been ignoring my suspicions and the suspicions of others. His play this game feels different compared to P5, where he had more reads and bigger, more consistent posts. That's why my vote is on him. I want him to actually answer to these charges. He hasn't even provided an excuse like "I'm busy IRL", so I'm not seeing why he's playing such a meek game.

@Killthestory If you networked Walrein, then he should be in out-of-thread communication with whoever Athena networked. I don't know if Athena claimed that yet, though. Also if you want to know where to start, I advise reading the last 5 pages of D2. That seems to be where everybody is drawing most of their material from.

 

[Refa]

It's me w/Walrein.  So far he seems genuinely lost but we haven't talked much.

[Killthestory]

4 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

The same could be said for town like Kirsche though. However, with the fact that his slot as town seems (or at least has seemed in the past) ripe for mislynch, I'd be surprised if scum never made a move to do so.

@Killthestory If you networked Walrein, then he should be in out-of-thread communication with whoever Athena networked. I don't know if Athena claimed that yet, though. Also if you want to know where to start, I advise reading the last 5 pages of D2. That seems to be where everybody is drawing most of their material from.

 

ripe for mislynch :[[[

 

also thank you for the advice. i'll start there

[SullyMcGully]

1 minute ago, Killthestory said:

ripe for mislynch :[[[

 

also thank you for the advice. i'll start there

Oh, sorry! I was referring to Mack. Kirsche was just a footnote, pretty much.

[Killthestory]

2 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Oh, sorry! I was referring to Mack. Kirsche was just a footnote, pretty much.

haha it's fine. your comment is right either way, and i do appreciate you telling me where to start. don't worry about it.

 

do u mind shooting me a d1 catchup tho?