We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Alette]

15 minutes ago, Fable said:

I also feel like Makaze would be more willing to bus than most other people and he seemed to be pushing mostly kirsche over junko and pushed eclipse too I think so actually not super high on him.

hmm, if makaze is wolf than I would definitely go for a lynch on Walrein next

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

At a glance I don't see how we don't go into 1 of LG/Makaze/eclipse today?

Thoughts on Snike/ZKirsche?

I'd probably go for Makaze/eclipse today because I feel like there's scum there.  I'd vote now but reading quote walls is hard. :weary:

 

[Alette]

5 minutes ago, Omega. said:

It's the avatar.

- Marth got wagoned, but the wagon died a little after I came in

- Alette subs into a slot that's mostly null, daykills a wolf

- Wolves janitor BBM, only to get a completely useless fakeclaim

I'd be salty AF as wolf right now.

tbf, i would be salty as wolf if a bunch of subs changed the game

[Refa]

Actually, LG went after Eclipse too yesterday, is the scum voteblock real??? I don't remember anything else he did, Walrein push today was pretty limp.

1 minute ago, Alette said:

hmm, if makaze is wolf than I would definitely go for a lynch on Walrein next

Did Makaze talk about Walrein at all?

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Alette said:

tbf, i would be salty as wolf if a bunch of subs changed the game

subs make me super salty as mafia because they're always on the people i want to mislynch lol

[Alette]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

Actually, LG went after Eclipse too yesterday, is the scum voteblock real??? I don't remember anything else he did, Walrein push today was pretty limp.

Did Makaze talk about Walrein at all?

yes, reads him Town while Fable/LG are voting Wals

[SullyMcGully]

Alette, just... why?

I was going to make a post on JB explaining why I thought he was scummy so I would at least appear to be contributing something.

What am I supposed to do now?

sigh

##Vote: Mackc2

My case from D2 still stands mostly uncontested. When I get time, I'll look at associative reads and role stuff which will probably prove me wrong. But I think Mack has been acting different in comparison to his meta, and it's not an improvement. I don't think he's been scum before. Some of his posting early in this day phase feels like he's asking questions to get better townread more, but they aren't really the brightest questions IMO.

I need to go to work again.

[Alette]

11 hours ago, Makaze said:

 

 

 

 

I take it back. Walrein never w/w with eclipse and Walrein reads strongly town.

Should have read him before speaking lol

@Refa

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, Refa said:

Thoughts on Snike/ZKirsche?

I'd probably go for Makaze/eclipse today because I feel like there's scum there.  I'd vote now but reading quote walls is hard. :weary:

 

How's Snike's wolfgame nowadays?

He's way more active/on the frontlines here than when we wolfed together a couple years ago. I haven't really found anything he's said/done here offensively wolfy? The only thing I don't like is the excessive rolespeccing, but some players tend to have a mind for that stuff.

kirsche was wolfy. Ever since he voted BBM and said some null post was wolfy I've been unable to read him V. Poisoned my perception of the slot. That said, I can vouch Kill is an asset to village so willing to give him time. Also, Junko shaded both him/Marth, so that might be okay for him.

I don't know if the eclipse/Makaze thing is a thing or what. I don't want that hanging over our heads in endgame, I'll tell you that much.

[Alette]

1 minute ago, SullyMcGully said:

Alette, just... why?

I was going to make a post on JB explaining why I thought he was scummy so I would at least appear to be contributing something.

What am I supposed to do now?

sigh

##Vote: Mackc2

My case from D2 still stands mostly uncontested. When I get time, I'll look at associative reads and role stuff which will probably prove me wrong. But I think Mack has been acting different in comparison to his meta, and it's not an improvement. I don't think he's been scum before. Some of his posting early in this day phase feels like he's asking questions to get better townread more, but they aren't really the brightest questions IMO.

I need to go to work again.

Wolves need to die Sully, it's just part of the game

[Fable]

Hard vetoing mack and eclipse today. 

[Refa]

Who do you want to vote?

[Makaze]

More reasons for me to doubt my eclipse as Mafia world:

On 4/9/2018 at 8:33 PM, Jaybee said:

##Vote: eclipse

 

it's been like 4 years since we last talked omg

Would two confirmed mafia RVS vote one of their teammates?

On 4/16/2018 at 2:16 PM, Jaybee said:

i know i had people who asked me questions (BBM, Kaoz, Omega, Refa?) and I would love to answer you but you'll have to wait till D3 so I can organise my thoughts over 24-48 hours because I really don't have good answers for any of your questions, reading 16 pages wasn't the greatest thing for my motivation.  Only one I guess this answers is @Kaoz lol

I've read the junko case Refa and athena linked me, and I'm still not feeling it, I read him as demotivated more than anything, and that's a null. OK with a lynch for the reads it'll produce, but I'd rather go for bigger scumreads.

Won't be awake for phase change, so very fast dirty thoughts:

eclipse targeting makaze straight off the bat for zeus's poor play (did she ever say she thought anything of zeus' alignment instead of his play?) is total bs

there's a nice little eclipse/mack defense of junk I see (which is how I read eclipse's gigantic quotewall, again giving an out for a junko mislynch), would look at the remaining 2 if junk/eclipse flips scum. I'm more confident on mack > eclipse cases, but I don't think mack is happening today.

rolespec i think mack is more likely to be town but the play is highly suspect.

##Unvote, ##Vote eclipse

He voted eclipse here over picking between kirsche and Junko. I don't see the logic if eclipse is also Mafia. It was also not gaining a ton of traction. It's simple: You vote Kirsche in this situation. It's the easy thing to do. JB hasn't even come close to defending Kirsche in this ISO. More on that in next post.

13 hours ago, Jaybee said:

mobile posting, not going to have anything big until maybe 12++ hours from now when I'm home

caffeinator here don't lynch, you obviously know who i targeted d1 and d2

I was null reading Junk after reading his posts and the case against him, and I used like 3? sentences about it. Eclipse made like 4? Quotewalls about the whole kirsche/junk issue before somewhat null reading Junk, then reluctantly switched over to him. The tone of the switch felt like reluctant scum to bus. It's a bit hard to explain the difference but it's quite clear in my head, I can maybe try to clarify later. 

Aside from this I presume I'm getting voted for a general lack of activity? And for scumreading protective roles? 

More shading eclipse.

eclipse is beginning to look less likely from PoE...

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, Fable said:

Hard vetoing mack and eclipse today. 

If you think they're both V, this kind of makes me want to go Makaze for sussing both today. That said, I'd have to take a closer look at LG's posts. 

Makaze/LG kinda buddied up a bit, not sure they pull that so blatantly as partners.

[Refa]

11 minutes ago, Omega. said:

How's Snike's wolfgame nowadays?

He's way more active/on the frontlines here than when we wolfed together a couple years ago. I haven't really found anything he's said/done here offensively wolfy? The only thing I don't like is the excessive rolespeccing, but some players tend to have a mind for that stuff.

He subbed in as mafia last game, but it's kind of hard to tell because he subbed into an obviously scummy slot.  Fair enough on the read, though.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

What are you finding suspect about him, Refa? I recall you guys going at each other for a bit. I didn't get much out of it, and I know BBM straight up called y'all villager on villager violence. But I'll take a look at w/e if you want a second opinion. I roll with villa squad wherever.

[Makaze]

On 4/15/2018 at 11:08 AM, Zkirsche said:

My motivation for this game is just gone at this point. Everyone I was looking forward to seeing responses from: Marth, Nightmare, and now Junko have all subbed out. Nightmare's claim is w/e because there might be something on top of the martyr to make it worthwhile for him to target town (assuming Refa town). @Fable what is Mackc like in the quicktopic? I don't think it's fair to say I haven't followed up because I did where I could aside from commenting on the nightmare claim.

I am really really torn on Athena because rolespec implies he is scum but there are some points of contention for that. His voting behaviour LD1 is townie, none of his posts read very scummy (like, the cases against him are good but kind of nitpicky?) and he doesn't really make sense as a buddy for Junko/Nightmare given the cases they made against each other (Junko against Athena, Athena against Nightmare). @Refa @Snike who do you think Athena's buddies are and what are they doing right now?

I don't know anything about Junko's meta tbh I can't really remember, I just know he was kinda flaky. I don't really want to consider 2 year old meta though, nor do I want to read up his past games. The problem with sitting on the same read is that it's really easy to make a bunch of reads ED1 but hard to maintain them or show that they evolve as scum. So if that's all someone has then it's likely it comes from scum. It also lets scum have a lot of reads which appears better than not having many.

 I'm kinda annoyed we didn't yesterday now. People casing me for "tunneling" should really take a step back and think to themselves what they'd do in my shoes coming into the day phase with Junko ignoring your case and mislabelling it as a misrep. I don't think it was a misplay on my part to keep pushing there.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shinori

Shinori's read post here is mediocre imo. He never explained why Walrein was rubbing him the wrong way, Refa is third on gut (???). His bit about BBM is just discrediting Bibbon's townread on BBM and he is really disliking me over the day phase but of course never explains why. Would like some expansion here. I don't think JB is unmemorable now either so would like to see what he thinks of JB's new content.

Mackc's push on me isn't really scummy but again he should think more about things from my perspective. Null on the slot post-nightmare but still happy with lynching it.

Feeling the same way about JB as I do Athena in a way, just don't see his content as super bad but can't argue against the cases against him. Will try to read him in more detail but it's hard.

Top three lynch dandidates fo me are Junko/Mackc/Shinori. Junko's read LD1 were very outdated and he accused me of misrepping him when I pointed that out. Mackc's predecessor Nightmare was scummy because of a strange LD1 vote switch and his attitude to scumhunting in general D1 and my Shinori read is explained above.

Apart from the Junko hard bus, I am seriously reconsidering. I don't see how Kirsche can justify bussing not one, but two of his buddies so early in the game.

That said, there is literally 0 interaction between him and JB. Not even a passing mention on either end as far as I can see. So no help there.

[Killthestory]

that sully post looked really wolfy as first, but scum making such a blatantly garbage post makes me reconsider. the guy seemed to genuinely want to get more out of the slot, and bemoaning a wolf shot is fucking hilarious.

 

makazes recent post is wolfy. gonna iso, in the meantime /vote omega ??? idk how to vote so ill use bold. pocket denied, yolo.

[Makaze]

On 4/11/2018 at 5:34 PM, Snike said:

Hot takes:

-I think Athena's scummy, Mostly off of gut but look at the snippy [email protected] jb around page 12 when he didn't immediately content after the unvote. IDT that's townie.

-I'd be down with a rein lynch except he's not on the playerlist. He might be a hidden but that's a waste of time at this pt. This makes a lot of kirsche's case on BBM look weak, but the tunneling is more in line w/ town kirsche.

More after I read my rolepm.

 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:21 PM, Snike said:

@eclipse

I could repost the stuff at the top of page 18 but I'll read instead. Not quoting bc it's clunky.

Next post is satsuma vote; which makes sense from the previous stuff. Why wasn't it in place earlier?

I don't think the argument about confrontation holds bc they're obviously in a confrontation : Not voting is a separate matter in a sense. I mean I'm kinda flaming marth but I'm not voting him; does that mean I'm averse to confronting him?

The vote itself makes sense if he thinks satsuma's stuff is bad; the read on the bartozio case is ??? because he goes from agreeing with the conclusion to saying he's scummy but no need to wagon. I'd like to see more about that.

Bro defense on zeus is null, but it's telling that his read stays the same after the zeusShow of like 13-16. It doesn't evolve despite the pushing.

Next post is part and parcel of the reactionary vibe I get from him. It's less pushing something and more answering pressure/attention than taking the lead.

after that is

to JB's unvote before he contented, and this is what actually set me on him while I was reading in anticipation of the inevitable polysub.This is kinda a cheap shot, and the fact that he does not go to respond to JB's followup post, instead moving on to zeus, makes it look worse.

The zeus stuff I believe I've expressed my concerns about, but afterwards, when I sub in, he responds to Satsuma + my role thing, but not to my stuff on him, when I'm directly voting him. This goes against the confrontation point from above, though maybe I'm just the Bogeysnike or something to him.

all in all 7/10 needs more spice, or perhaps eau de la village.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:06 PM, Snike said:

aand sf ate another post

what bbm said + missing macho is big

+Why would you claim Town? That's kinda superfluous because it's a given unless you're claiming third that you're assuming you're town. (Nitpick but capital T implies it's part of rolename; if he meant factional he saw that it was Upright and so should've used that)

-ate is ongoing. Ate is strong. I am not interested in addressing it right now.

I should clarify that my results show up as Godfather role-wise; not "Town Godfather" or whatever it was rgat bbm more in line with inno/godfather respectively to role/ alliance cop.

I think looking at JB is probably good, though I'm not familiar with his meta. I had him at null earlier.

@BBM gimme a minute to link the posts; I wouldn't characterize it 100% as flip-flopping but it felt like distancing. Eclipse on Page 23 had a comment on readshifts though; it should be her big one, about halfway down the page.

Lastly, as a heads' up my other head is busy with an essay atm; he's reading but can't respond rn.

 

17 hours ago, Snike said:

walrein kind of flaked end of phase which bothers me.

Are we thinking networkers are 1 and 1 still? Because the shinori flip is making me doubt hard that wagon now (He was the #1 player with me on that case.) I do not want to lynch here today.

@Omega I already explained myself, take it or leave it.  Also I think Via's night action thing clears Kaoz.

I still think that end of phase push on eclipse had scum on it. I don't think I'm 100% 100% wrong this game reads-wise.

##Vote:JB

Protective push, another protective push, eclipse push, I was already scumreading so may as well continue with the push.

 

17 hours ago, Snike said:

I uh did a shinori summary, @Fable This might be a little tainted by my end of d2 opinions and pre-d3 start but here:

Spoiler

p 25
-mentions kirsche misrep
-bbm agreement about networker, scumreads athena.
-nightmare push; asks for clarification on bart wagon swap; smears fenrir???
-against char claiming; it's fine.
-admits waffle unprompted (townie imo); explains flip
-asks about athena
32
-clarifies nbart and athena reads; expresses wtf with sully
-null-scum but doesn't get case on kirsche
33
-calls via out on ??? read
40
-reads post
- backs down on nm
-walrein reads gut; he hasn't shown up for second half of day phase so perhaps;
-jb stuff I disagree but he has been scummy
-refa's been weird; I was along those lines, then I was scum-aligned; now I'm townreading it;
-turns bibbon into a townread
-athena is same
-kirsche suspicion 40/41
-expresses skepticism w/ my question; seems town motivated (stop fishing)
44
-pushing mack an sully to respond; has his opinions expressed; this is scumhunting imo
47
-walrein scumread is meta but admits later stuff is good
-persecutes bibbon voteo n jb; I agree;
-people talk more about 42 snike/athena;
-leans more scum on marth;
-dislikes sully over doc vote; I don't think this outweighs the derp town moment;
-bbm scumread over his weird defense of kirsche
-calls out athena's 47 as noncontributive. There isn't much content tbh
-doesn't want to lynch junko (doesn't reflect well)
48
-first mentioned of eclipse; gut town but hasn't read
-asks about nm push
-emotions on the lol wolf; this is ate and imo very shinori because it's kinda a dismissal of his stuff
-elaborate on eclipse meta; doesn't talk about scumminess or not.
51
-explains junko radar shift; bigpost appeased him
-responds to refa on kirsche; walrein; and on satsuma reads; I think this mixes theory and actual case examples, and isn't an attempt to pad or get into theorycrafting.
-asking for explanation from omega; going through motions is not how I'd put this play.
54?
-short bbm read explanation
64
talks about train; supports anyone but junko; hard disagree;

@Refa I mean yes but back when it was BBM gaius makaze jb. JB's the obvious candidate but I don't feel good about gaius makaze either.

Actually, could I get a read on like bottom of 41? Shinori semi-shades me as fishing when I ask eclipse if she had given me the item. I don't think that's necessarily something he'd do to defend her?

More on Snike/Satsuma slot: Snike has been building this slow progression on JB and many of his other reads have been associated with it "I have been scumreading JB and he had a bad case on Weapons which makes me lean town on Weapons" eventually pushing him after yesterday's lynch, citing that he thinks scum were on the eclipse counter wagon. He could have easily pushed me or someone else instead, but he chose JB. I'm not convinced this is optimal in any world so Snike's slot is even more clear FMPOV.

[Refa]

Just now, Omega. said:

What are you finding suspect about him, Refa? I recall you guys going at each other for a bit. I didn't get much out of it, and I know BBM straight up called y'all villager on villager violence. But I'll take a look at w/e if you want a second opinion. I roll with villa squad wherever.

It's less him and more that there are too many people that I would not lynch today.  At the moment, my scum category is just Lord Gaius lol and my null is Makaze/Walrein/Arcanite/Snike and I'm trying to clear away those nulls.  Also this is unfair but I don't get why Scum!Shinori would give him the item (yeah, I said earlier that I didn't think Snike would claim it on thread but if Shinori was planning on claiming Inventor, it makes sense) and why he'd target the Martyr if he didn't believe the claim.  Just seems fishy to me.  Also I'm bothered by Snike and LG agreeing that there was probably a Serial Killer when there was no definitive proof at the time; would make sense coming from scum especially if scum's kill failed on N1.  ALSO ALSO it's weird to me that he didn't followup on his LG read despite being willing to turbo him on the previous night.

Most interesting thing for me that I want cleared up is why two flipped scum went after Eclipse yesterday over ZKirsche.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

that sully post looked really wolfy as first, but scum making such a blatantly garbage post makes me reconsider. the guy seemed to genuinely want to get more out of the slot, and bemoaning a wolf shot is fucking hilarious.

 

makazes recent post is wolfy. gonna iso, in the meantime /vote omega ??? idk how to vote so ill use bold. pocket denied, yolo.

lmao.

##Vote: [playername] in bold.

[Makaze]

I think there are far too few possible worlds and there is a lot of bussing going on.

If anyone actually disagrees with my associative PoE, please explain, because I don't think you can scum read people in a vacuum without considering team interactions.

[SullyMcGully]

4 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

that sully post looked really wolfy as first, but scum making such a blatantly garbage post makes me reconsider. the guy seemed to genuinely want to get more out of the slot, and bemoaning a wolf shot is fucking hilarious.

 

makazes recent post is wolfy. gonna iso, in the meantime /vote omega ??? idk how to vote so ill use bold. pocket denied, yolo.

This is what I deserve for tunneling a tunneler for tunneling. 

The way it goes is ##Vote: Omega.

But why the heck? Omega's obvtown. At least that's what I think. Is this a joke? 

##Unvote

##Vote: Mackc2

Need to look into this more.

[Refa]

6 minutes ago, Makaze said:

More on Snike/Satsuma slot: Snike has been building this slow progression on JB and many of his other reads have been associated with it "I have been scumreading JB and he had a bad case on Weapons which makes me lean town on Weapons" eventually pushing him after yesterday's lynch, citing that he thinks scum were on the eclipse counter wagon. He could have easily pushed me or someone else instead, but he chose JB. I'm not convinced this is optimal in any world so Snike's slot is even more clear FMPOV.

Considering the vibe I got today, I feel like scum was resigned to lynching JB today.  None of the other wagons had much weight behind them, and almost everyone was like "JB is the scummiest yeah but I want to pressure here instead".

[Snike]

skimmed; reading now but I wanted to get a post out before getting locked in eternal war w/ baldrick.

Feel free to talk about my scumgame; tbh it's not much worse than I'm playing right now outside of being right about scum on eclipsewagon  pre-eod #Kobe.

Do we think weapons looks better or worse with this flip?  That page 57 post by weapons has him saying the case on JB was easy and scum was probably pushing it which is obviously wrong now but then the shinori vote's still a minor problem. But then JB's case on weapons was v bad. Could this just be scum defend/scum bus?

Also, reminder: I lateclaimed the godfather scan modifier on my role (role miller) + a night action that doesn't make sense for scum when the jan kill was obviously on BBM. Especially wrt the first, why would I do that as scum? Like I would be buddies with Shinori in this scenario so there's no reason why satsuma wouldn't have been told to claim that immediately by Scumnori.

My interaction w/him and my end of day yesterday can look kind of bad but above still makes no sense.

I would be down with gaius/makaze/weapons today. I felt better about gaius earlier (esp with my read on bbm being wrong) but he is still part of that vote block. Makaze I've been reading as null but his scumteam just blew up.

@Refa Did you see my clarification on the SK thing? I've also already said that I thought kirsche was town and moving the martyr there when it was on kaoz was a gamble because I thought he would die next.

@KillthestoryWho did kirsche target last night?

more to come.