We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Baldrick]

Omega, I read backwards from the end of D2 until I found something solid, then ISOs of the relevant parties and tried to work out the timing of those ISOs. I'm priortising keeping up with the thread because I feel that's where I can be most productive to influencing the gamestate. I will look up specific events and interactions that come to mind, but I don't think I will continue reading backwards because it will be too much to take in and sap my motivation.

[Arcanite]

On 4/9/2018 at 3:38 PM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

No one else can touch my Polydeuces

SatsumaFDeuces
Though I guess it's SnikeFSoysoy now

On 4/9/2018 at 9:07 PM, Anime27Arts said:

Might as well follow tradition of getting lynched D1

You must've mistaken the Shinori scum stench for Bart's scum stench

Kaoz (replacing Bibbon)
Lord Gaius (replacing Eärendil)
Mackc2 (replacing Nightmare)
Omega (replacing Marth)
RADicate (replacing Junko)
SatsumaFSoySoy + Snike (replacing Polydeuces)
SullyMcGully (replacing Elieson)
Makaze (replacing zeus_112)

I just have this here so I know who subbed in as who/what

 

On 4/10/2018 at 5:34 AM, Walrein said:

speaking purely strategically it's probably optimal to always have your vote on someone

I almost got lynched for that last game 

 

Read up to page 5

Spoiler

Kirsche looks town to me tbh... Junk made a post against them but I feel like that's scum
BBM's interactions are... okay? That thing where he mentioned he was just being lazy town or something kinda makes me do the ol' side eye
It's only page 5 anyway so Town BBM would have misread by now though
Bibbon is fine, I think Athena's point on them about weapons basically doing the same thing they did is flimsy and also sort of untrue imo. 
Speaking of which, Athena... not really looking town. Their cases were flimsy, I guess it was still sort of RVS-ish and apparently everyone in the flipping thread looks town at this point so there weren't much cases to make at all
Refa is good I guess
Zeus looks town
Walr posts too fricking much is town-looking to me too
Eclipse... I mean she's a mayor and Snike was mayor in my last game and was town, and mayor on Scum team sounds lol (so she's either some other... thing or just town
And I'm more inclined to believe she is town
HI SOY! He looks confused town, just like me and my first game on here!
Via is hard town to me
Weapons is just being himse-
oh that's technically me
(pretty sure I commented on everyone relevant)
Im going to be paying attention to JUNK's interactions with others... since they are scum

Read up to page 10

Spoiler

 

On 4/10/2018 at 1:03 PM, Walrein said:

if I'm going to vote someone who has 4 posts and 0 content I'm not going to need a paragraph to explain the vote

:hectorsmart:

Jumping out at me on page 6, Shinori's first post reads town... which is sad But he also made a case on Bart who was town, so it's like 
hmmm is this Scumnori trying to get town ded'd easily
Soy needs to contribute more for me to say... more. But I feel he's town anyway
Bart... poor poor Bart... at least by looking at him I can see him as a basis for town and try and look for who all that stayed away from pushing his vote (based on the theory that scum wouldn't just obviously push town to die for the sake of it being incriminating as opposed to sheep the town wagon and hide)

On 4/10/2018 at 3:50 PM, athena_57 said:

That's fair. Though you won't accomplish anything day 1 if you don't rely a bit on gut/meta

doesnt this sort of make a case against yourself
Im still just not feeling good about athena right now lol
Eury makes her first posts... kinda paying close attention to them to see why scum team would want to kill her during night phase
Fable, the answer you were looking for was Prims but I dont think he's in this game
Also Fable needs come actual tangible content
Via still looking town the autocorrects are kinda scary
Eclipse still looks town, the vote on Zeus is like... eh
Zeus just hasnt posted enough, so I guess it's good for pressure or whatever

On 4/11/2018 at 12:09 AM, eclipse said:

My thing is associative reads.  But for that to work, everyone needs to interact with everyone.

It's not all about you!
JB was okay? still need... more content
I wish Weapons was still in the game so I can read more crap posts
Im so not used to Walr's spammish style of posting but still looking town
BBM also kinda starts looking more towny 
Nightmare came and went, he looked town at least I guess?

On 4/11/2018 at 6:59 AM, Nightmare said:

I'm not that stupid.

Are you really though
I feel the case on Kirsche is... eh
Junko made a sorta passive post on page 10...
Magnificence Infernape has said nothing so far essentially
BBM's vote on me weapons is dumb because I'm town is alright I guess... I wish weapons looked more town and less... weird?
 

10 pages in and I already feel depressed after reading all this LOL
Read up to page 15

Spoiler

On 4/11/2018 at 7:08 AM, Vi-astra said:

I'm becoming a little paranoid weapons is over-doing his goofiness this game because he's scum trying to emulate his town meta to the post he's overshooting it?

I think weapons was just being weapons

Reefer continues to make relatively good content... and look town
Weapons' content post was also good, yay me
Inclined to think Nagmificence Infernate is like scum skating by or something cause of this non-contribution-ness, but then they started making good content that is decent enough
Walr pushing him, I totally agree
Athena looks... okay I guess
Zeus is... odd... but I dont think scum team would let them say this:

Spoiler

Quote

I think of it this way: people start questioning me, I defend myself and if I've defended myself well they will question someone else. If I did not defend myself well enough they hang me.

Like why

Would they just let him say something like that lol

Zeus just seems so disconnected from the game he's town

Like, Scum is detached from the game but zeus takes it into a completely different plain of existence. It's so blatantly obviously scum looking that scum wouldnt just let it fly so easily, and it becomes lazy-town looking

Still think Kirsche is town, the case on them doesnt exactly seem to great
Inclined to think Fable is town
Bibbon is being passive... I dont like it
Hi Reinfleche, bye Reinfleche
Eclipse is town

On 4/11/2018 at 4:45 PM, eclipse said:

Someone who's making a mess of posts is a legit lynch option.  Makes things harder to read later on.

She is also VERY correct!

 

 

 

I was supposed to make this post a while ago but then I started playing a game I havent played in a long time...
Which I then played for a long time LOL
This is gonna take a while... b L e H

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Refa said:

That's fine, but it still bothers me that you specifically read it as reluctant scum to bus.  That seems oddly specific, especially considering you were nullreading the other slot.  Why didn't you interpret it as Scum!Eclipse voting an obvious mislynch, for example?

You're getting voted because people don't have townreads on you and you don't have great interactions w/flipped scum, I'm assuming. 

Because if you're scum voting an obvious mislynch you're not going to be hesitant, you're going to make an obvious case and slam the ML townie. I think reluctant votes on someone who flips scum looks bad.

I don't recall ever interacting with shinori though? 

Char claim eury @Vi-astra

[Arcanite]

75 pages

jumps off of cliff

[Jaybee]

@Snike gotta give the poor guy a chance to talk man, felt like we'd get more from someone who hadn't said much and said he was still catching up

[Makaze]

Quotewalling every interaction I saw between Shinori/Junko and eclipse. I also quoted some interesting interacts that I find clearing of other people. The cliffs: There was just one thing that makes me doubt my suspicion, towards the end. The rest supports it.

Edit: it just ate the bottom of my post so hopefully the original intent comes though

Spoiler

 

On 4/9/2018 at 9:14 PM, Shinori said:

##Vote: Ahylxia

Fucker keeps feedin in my games.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Eclipse

Stop subbing out in games I'm in.

This first vote by Shinori.

On 4/10/2018 at 5:46 PM, Shinori said:

This implied that you weren't even thinking about the fact of ITP.  And whereas I don't want to hunt for one nor do I want to randomly speculate about ITP being in the game or not I don't think it should just be written off as there being no ITP.  I even agreed with you and stated I feel one of those two roles is probably town myself.

How does me LITERALLY agreeing with you on your town read turn into me trying to make you doubt your town read?

Catching up through these other pages.

This was in response to Via. Scum never talks to scum like this. Whatever else Via is, she is never w/w with Shinori.

On 4/10/2018 at 5:58 PM, Shinori said:

Iono I feel this mentality towards Walrein is weird.  Overall I will say I disliked Athena's early post complaining about RVS while saying nothing else.  Albeit minor, a few things had actually slightly happened.  An example is the whole BBM/Junko posts that had happened before Athena posted.  Maybe I'm just biased but it stood out to me.

I dislike this because it kind of just brushes off Athena's bad play early on.  Humans are creatures of habit and are more often prone to repeating the same mistake again and again.

Athena is hard cleared, has been suspected by all confirmed scum at this point.

On 4/10/2018 at 6:19 PM, Shinori said:

I get a bad gut feeling that Athena is kind of just responding to questions and not super actively scum hunting.  Sure he's pressuring Satsuma/poly but it's also kind of mainly him questioning a newer player(I think?).  I'm not really liking it but he's not my top scum read really.  Probably leaning scum here.

I'm not really bothered by BBM outside of the stuff that happened on Page 3.  So Kirsche talking about me recently and my 'read' on BBM pings me.  @Zkirsche Were you kind of skimming my posts?  I don't know how me being iffy of BBM's page 3 stuff is connected to your vote on him on page 5.  You even vote him for different reasons that I was talking about.  Leaning scum here.

Bartozio's vote on Satsuma feels hypocritcal to me.  I also feel like he isn't really talking himself.  His response to Refa even was him quoting Athena and basically using the reasoning that Athena posted.  He also hasn't really commented on anything besides Satsuma/Athena mainly at this point.  I also feel that whole bit with his role pm thing is really off.

##Vote: Bartozio

Bart > Kirsche for me at the moment.

@Bartozio Could you give some thoughts on other players?

 

On 4/10/2018 at 7:42 PM, eclipse said:

I made the mistake of dismissing a soft tell in the last anonymous game.  Exact same tone, to boot.  I'm not doing it again.

This post on its own bothers me because instead of arguing why she is right in this case, she makes a policy decision, which goes along with her not having actual reads like the rest of the game.

On 4/10/2018 at 9:41 PM, Shinori said:

I also haven't mentioned Walrein that I can remember off the top of my head: How come you didn't bring this up WRT me but did so for Eury?  Or did you ask her something about Walrein?

Why Walrein in specific?  And why ask Eury specifically? I know he's been very active but I don't quite understand this post right now.

Interesting Shinori/Walrein associations.

On 4/11/2018 at 3:13 AM, Junk said:

@Zkirsche I never got the impression that BBM had via as a read. It seemed like to me that he was asking via some questions wheras i'm 99% sure via explicitly said something about whatever walrein said being "antitown" or something to that effect and i'll sheep BBM's logic that asking questions is better than doing nothing especially when it's earlygame. 

@eclipseEclipse kinda bothers me although it may be i'm taking her words too literally. I think her logic on Athena is okay although imo I could see why you wouldn't want to be overly aggressive outside of pushing reads so as to not make people mad. Why does the "disconnect" make you think Athena is scummy? You mention that it's a soft tell but what exactly makes this scummy? Anyway it's your other reads that seem to bother me. Lynching someone for their attitude makes no sense (although i'm not sure if you were literal there) and although you only said it was a slight scumtell how does refa missing the point strike you as slightly scummy?

@BBM why didn't you vote weapons unless i missed something when you said he was scummy?

Most of weapons just comes off as lazy to me. Only thing that strikes me as weird is his bartozio vote. IDK why him deciding to read his role pm again makes him vote worthy.

I'll post my thoughts on other players after bed. I skimmed a lot of people's posts and the above is what stood out to me immediately. Still keeping my vote on kirsche because it seems weird to me that bbm asking via some questions means he had a read on via.

 

This is practically the only time Junko mentions eclipse, and he kind-of-sort-of has a problem with her, but doesn't commit to it. Now that I know he is scum, I think he had good reasons to suspect her, but was distancing. I am willing to acount for Junko just being waffly all around, but I still think this bears mentioning.

On 4/11/2018 at 7:39 PM, Shinori said:

@eclipseDid you actually do something or was that a reaction test?

 

On 4/11/2018 at 7:42 PM, eclipse said:

Tee-hee~!

(I already claimed my role, and you know what I normally do when I see my chew toy in a game)

I feel that this interaction is far too casual and familiar for someone she actively is not reading, and who RVS'd her early on.

On 4/14/2018 at 3:29 AM, eclipse said:

Were you able to read the announcement at the beginning of D2?

It's odd behavior from two players who I expect better from.  The obvious answer is "an easy lynch".  Looks slightly worse on Refa due to the generally detached tone he has.

However, my vote is on neither.

It is against SF rules to post on multiple accounts, Eury.

Ahem. . .

With Marth asking for a hydra/sub, does this change your read on him?

Notice how despite the huge wall, she is merely joking with him and asks a useless reaction test question. Note again: She has just read a huge wall from him, and has interacted with him directly at this time.

On 4/14/2018 at 3:33 AM, Junk said:

not really. My read on him is because of his misrep on me. Asking for a sub/hydra doesn't really change that.

Not defensive. This is not conclusive, but it was defensive, I believe it would hurt my theory.

On 4/14/2018 at 12:05 PM, Shinori said:

1: I wasn't confused, so I don't understand why my name was even mentioned WRT the stupid claiming fiasco of Sully and weapons.  Sully was obviously not saying he was a tracker tracking someone to Eury, otherwise he would have just stated that.  I'm not quite a fan of Weapons response though because he's not acting like the town!Weapons that I know of.  I don't see his play as similiar to EO3 and I feel it's different.

2:  Stuff I meant to reread regarding vote swaps was that I felt Nightmare's vote swap was ass but I'm not to confident on Nightmare being scum based on his role.  Mind you my thoughts on players have been posted to an extent in my quote walls; I'm not gonna go into crazy detail about my town reads as I don't like to do that as much but my scum reads are currently along the lines of:

Scum reads:

Athena
Kirsche

Leaning scum:

Walrein
Refa
BBM
Jaybee
Junko

No particular order.  I haven't read Junko's most recent wall post so that may chance some thoughts/opinions on them. 

Walrein is starting to rub me the wrong way and I'm getting scum vibes from him.  I was town reading him from Early day 1 play but that was primarily based on the fact that he was actually posting and that's probably a bad idea to just town read someone on.

Jaybee is completely unmemorable and I don't even remember them really doing anything, apparently like the first vote on the Bart lynch wagon though so I dislike that.

Refa is actually giving me Third vibes.  This is mainly gut though and I don't actually think he's scum.  Kind of the reason I'm not really pushing this at all cause I don't wanna deal with ITP hunting when we don't even know if there is one in the game.

I disagree with Bibbon when he said he town read BBM based on BBM's case on Bibbom followed by BBM unvoting Bibbon.  I could see Scum!BBM unvoting and not just continuing with the pressure because otherwise it would look bad.  I was iffy on bibbon last phase but after thinking about it more and re-reading some of the content I feel he's a bigger town read now.  Especially with the random Jailkeeper claim?  I gotta say that came outta nowhere and I'm not a fan but I don't see it as scum.

Athena case's have already been posted, both by myself and Snike and I'm really disliking Kirsche over this past day phase.  Day 1 I was leaning scummy on him but it's only gotten worse in my eyes.

So for now since I forgot to unvote a while ago:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Athena

First major reads list from Shinori. Notably missing: eclipse. Junko is confirmed scum. This isn't damning, but I think Shinori has been soft bussing his partners for a while, and that includes his RVS vote. I'll explain why I have doubts below.

On 4/16/2018 at 12:54 AM, eclipse said:

It feels like it because a good chunk of the game went inactive, then came a ton of subs.  When over a third of the game has been replaced in a short amount of time, it's going to be a mess.

My view has been shot to hell, so I'm going to comment on people who didn't sub out, and were memorable enough to make an impression.

athena_57 - Need to review recent content.  Didn't like how he was pushing Satsuma earlier.  His things with zeus were null to me, because that's his RL brother, and people who know each other well are going to interact differently from complete strangers.  Wasn't too happy with his Bart vote, and I pointed out why on page 23 (I still can't figure out why Marth was even mentioned).  Was the scummiest for a while.

BBM - Half the time I forget he's playing.  He had a thing with Bibbon which I wrote off as a play style difference.  I'll have a better read on him when there's less people around.

Fable - Other than heavily defending Bibbon's play, and a bunch of self-meta early-on nothing's sticking out.  Most memorable thing ATM is what Weapons said in his announcement (which is a tell on Weapons, not Fable).

Jaybee - I'll have a read on him once I figure out what logic he's using to make his cases.  His role reasons for scumreading Marth were odd.

Refa - Biggest annoyance IMO was him asking for people to find things for him earlier in this day phase.  I'd rather spend my time making sense of everything rather than chasing after a post I know I made, but don't remember where.  He did /effort later, and I haven't had the chance to read it yet.

Satsuma/Snike - Satsuma felt mostly town (except when I got irritated with his insistence that his vote disappeared), then Snike subbed in for Poly, and I haven't been scumreading the slot since.

Shinori - I think I finally saw some concrete emotion somewhere between page 46 and now, and I'll need to reread that in depth.  Wasn't really scumreading him otherwise.  Would like for people to post their reasons for scumreading him, so he can respond, and I can get a better read on him.

Via - I rarely scumread him, and this game is no exception.  N1 feels like a ton of effort for mafia.  I think the best thing I can do regarding his role is to drop some crumbs regarding my flavor, and leave it at that.  Even if those crumbs appear to make no sense now.

Walrein - Chalked the disappearance up to RL shenanigans, and it turns out I was right.  Hadn't been scumeading the slot D1, and don't remember much from D2.

Weapons - Despite the trolling, I think he's town.  The D2 announcement doesn't read like a scumpost at all - instead of the usual low-effort content, it contains a bunch of reads.  Not sure what he was going to accomplish with his fakeclaim in D2, but eh.  I think it's weird that anyone fell for it.  Not sure what he meant in regards to Fable in the D2 announcement.

Zkirsche - I already mentioned his reply to Junko.  Otherwise, he's in the same pile as BBM/Fable. . .yes, despite those walls.  Because, like half this game, I haven't had time to digest them.

Nope.

And at the rate this is going, I might not get to it.  Omega asked me for reads, and I think that's going to be more helpful than an individual response to you.

I agree that Mack is a bad lynch, because his role makes no sense whatsoever as mafia.

@Makaze The more you distract me, the less likely I am to get to you.

Next up is kirsche/Junko analysis.

First majoir reads list from eclipse. She says she hasn't been scumreading Shinori, and finally saw some real emotion, without getting specific. This is a dismissive read, no thought went into it.  Going to bold this because it really stands out to me: Look at the other reads in this wall. Shinori's is the least committal of the group. But we know she interacted with him directly already. And not only does she not have any reads, she asks others to give theirs. But not just theirs; she asks them to give her reasons to scumread him. I find this very odd next to the other reads in this post.

On 4/16/2018 at 6:12 PM, Shinori said:

We don't have that much time to talk about networker suspicions, I was originally thinking 1 town 1 scum, but both are apparently my scum reads and I don't know how to take that.

Would rather lynch Eclipse > Junko though at the moment.

What's your Idea Snike?

This is the only reason I have to doubt my suspicion. On the one hand, I think that Shinori could be trying to save his more powerful scum buddy instead of a less powerful, but I'm not sure if I believe that he thinks a Mafia Mayor is less useful than a Mafia Roleblocker. Since kirsche is confirmed town, I cannot think of any reason for him to actively back off a kirsche alternative, unless he is actively trying to make kirsche look bad (but he would need to know he was dying to do that). I don't think post makes any sense from any perspective.

When it comes down to it, I think there is more evidence for it than against it. eclipse has casual, non-aggressive interactions with both known scum and actively goes out of her way not to commit to anything on either of them. The people she has gone after we know are town: athena and BBM (I am taking these for granted).

One potential concern I have is that Shinori and Junko were also missing me in their reads, but I chalk that up to me not being around (or zeus), and if eclipse is Mafia, I don't see why two of her buddies would beat that horse with her.

I also think that Walrein fits nicely into all of the worlds with Shinori and Junko, and is probably scum based off of associates, including eclipse.

My current scumteam is Shinori/Junko/Walrein/eclipse/possible Snike, with Weapons as ITP if any.

 

[Makaze]

@Zkirsche

please gain motivation i'd like to hear who you suspect

you have proven good reads

[Makaze]

I had a lot more thoughts about clears, but most of them are already in my townreads. I'll explain them if they become lynch targets.

[Makaze]

On 4/10/2018 at 3:28 AM, Walrein said:

i'm not considering scum/town hydra an option barring in-game circumstances pointing to that as likely; the fact that they were explicitly confirmed as the same alignment/role (basically the same slot) would make such a twist INCREDIBLY bastard and i'd probably kill sb myself

@BBM i was, in fact, primarily referring to elie; his "you fail to consider a lot, sir!" followed by... not actually mentioning what i (in his eyes) failed to consider was pretty frustrating

@athena_57 i think i can help with the endeavor you strive for

##Unvote

##Vote: athena_57

 

On 4/10/2018 at 4:09 AM, Walrein said:

if this is what i think it is i'm excited

 

On 4/10/2018 at 5:03 AM, Walrein said:

not actually what i was expecting but ok

i will give eclipse MILD TOWNPOINTS with the caveat that wolf mayor is cheeky and totally something assbee would do

 

On 4/11/2018 at 4:02 AM, Walrein said:

for future reference: my pronouns are they/them (no worries, those of you who didn't realize this)

really like refa's read on weapons

via/eclipse solidifying my townreads on them

nate's intro post is really thin and i haven't decided if it's disinterested town after a prod or disinterested scum in general. i do get decent tonal vibes from his "sheep me" post

agree that refa feels more detached from usual but like... i really like his reads. if he isn't town i'll be sad :(

having trouble getting a bead on junko/kirsche/shinori. hopefully will get to directly interact with them at some point

zeus has balls if he's mafia. athena's posting got... better? maybe? i need to reread it. weapons could be scum (definitely sheeping refa's read here lmao)

think i'm still hovering around a very weak townlean on bbm. another slot i need to reread.

fable read hasn't changed since my last post

everyone else needs to post more

 

On 4/14/2018 at 5:47 AM, Walrein said:

snike's probably town for jumping on nate's perceived scumslip the way he did

that said i don't think it was actually a slip

I take it back. Walrein never w/w with eclipse and Walrein reads strongly town.

Should have read him before speaking lol

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I take it back. Walrein never w/w with eclipse and Walrein reads strongly town.

I reached the former conclusion when thinking about them, though not sure on the latter. I will say, Walrein saying "having trouble getting a bead on junko/shinori/kirsche" is interesting, not sure if he sandwiches 2 wolfbros with a presumed villa like that. That's a pretty sick play if he's wolf, haven't seen him as wolf before, but most wolves don't go that deep.

Interesting posts, going to think on some things.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

On 4/10/2018 at 3:50 AM, eclipse said:

Normally, this is where I claim, BUT SB isn't on.  So we'll have to wait on that.

##Vote: SatsumaFSoySoy

Also, hi Shinori and JB!

 

On 4/10/2018 at 4:09 AM, Walrein said:

if this is what i think it is i'm excited

 

On 4/10/2018 at 4:14 AM, SB. said:

Day 1.2 - Votals
eclipse (2): Jaybee, Shinori
Shinori (2): Eurykins, Elieson
Anime27Arts (2): Zkirsche, Bartozio
Polydeuces + SatsumaFSoySoy (2): eclipse
Refa (1): Junk
Bartozio (1): Anime27Arts
Walrein (1): Refa
Zkirsche (1): Vi-astra
zeus_112 (1): athena_57
athena_57 (1): Walrein

Not Voting: BBM, Bibbon, Eärendil, Fable, Magnificence Incarnate, Nightmare, WeaponsofMassConstruction, zeus_112

You have ~61.75 hours left in the day.  With 22 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 15 to hammer.

 

On 4/10/2018 at 4:19 AM, eclipse said:

Yep, that should do it.

##Unvote

The only thing of note is Walrein's vote on athena.  I'm not getting scum vibes off of Walrein, and athena pulled the "vote the inactive" stunt last game, so it's null for now.  Otherwise, there's bits of roles that I don't think are worth voting on, and RVS.  Hence why my vote will be kept to myself for the time being.

 

On 4/10/2018 at 5:03 AM, Walrein said:

not actually what i was expecting but ok

i will give eclipse MILD TOWNPOINTS with the caveat that wolf mayor is cheeky and totally something assbee would do

This was all in fairly quick succession by SF standards. eclipse's "not getting scum vibes off of Walrein", IF she's a wolf, is the kind of dismissal a wolf makes towards a villa in early game 9/10x, I think.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I would be extremely impressed with them taking over the thread and orchestrating the above exchange in early game. That would be seriously sick play.

[Baldrick]

@snike

You alternate between wanting to lynch Junko because he's scummy, and not wanting to lynch him for other reasons (scumreads are voting him, his role). I can't reconcile that you say you believe him, but you wanted an investigation role on him. For kirsche, I don't think the idea of lynching between the networkers should have superseded your disinterest in lynching him; just because networkers can contain scum, doesn't mean they will contain scum.

I'll be to the point: what happened to your gaius read? you were confident enough LD2 to lynch him without a claim, but you haven't talked about anything he's said N2 and D3, or even pushed how he's acting like a lyncher now that there's not a scramble to get a lynch.

@Arcanite

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?

If you know what you're doing that's OK, but if you don't:

Read the end of Day 2: (pages 60-68) and look at what people say about the major wagons (junko, kirsche, eclipse). If you don't get anything from that, read the beginning of Day 3: (69-75) and comment on the cases that have been made.

[Makaze]

On 4/15/2018 at 5:56 PM, Lord Gaius said:

Going to kill myself this got eaten when i was on page 32. I'm doing this much more quickly than I was previously so don't hesitate to ask for clarification on any reads/ comments I have, mostly am just going through game thread blind with my reads at end of post. I want people to know i'm not trying to brush this game off, here's what I have atm.

Gaius notes:

page 2-3: I think walrein's setup spec is fine opposed to typical RVS bs, it's all filler content in the end until something happens. Via / walrein interactions strongly suggest to me they are not scum / scum, I don't think buddies would be this conversational early. Via Role / Eclipse role are NAI. 

page 4-5: I think a lot of people are reading scum! Athena tonally as opposed to anything he's really said or done, wrt stuff like how he overexplained himself. Zeus bothers me much more with a halfassed meta post and nothing else of note even though there's definitely a bit more we can chew on at this phase. Gonna assume zkirsche is kirsche until someone corrects me. Agree with his assessment of BBM's play, don't understand how Refa finds his analysis scummy. Refa's been doing the thing where he asks a lot of questions and I scumread him for it, but I haven't really given him a chance to do something with his info and he's town half the time I do this so gonna hold off on that. Bibbon and Zeus have had the most egrigious posts so far, but I've never played with either of them and have no idea what they do ED1. 

page 6: Bartozio has a good distinction on Satsuma's slot wrt avoiding giving reads vs not having them, would sheep / 10. Shinori says some things I agree w/ minus Athena, that slot hasn't done much scummy from what i've seen. Satsuma goes straight into some OMGUS as soon as called out by bartozio and athena, I'm starting to get something more concrete here. misreading role PMs happens not going to let it affect my reads. 

page 7: Weapons seems to be playing in line with his town meta, will probably need to wait to see some more interactions before I have a better read than gut on him, he's right about satsuma and zeus in any case. 

Eclipse: "There's several types of tells in a game.  Some are hard tells, like someone spilling information that they shouldn't know (say, a claimed BP posting someone else's role).  Others are soft tells, things that are subconsciously done as we play the game.  Your recent posts are responses to people - in other words, passive play.  Yet you're being awfully pushy with your lone read.  This kind of disconnect is a soft tell - in this case, a scum tell." 

When someone is under fire they have to defend themselves? This doesn't sit right with me, why are we playing if not to push our scumreads and convince other people we're town? You threw a bunch of buzz words into a paragraph that don't really make sense together. 
 

 

On 4/16/2018 at 1:21 PM, Lord Gaius said:

I need the night phase to get caught up on the full readthrough, hold me to it if I don't finish by D3 morning. 

I've skimmed the cases on the table for today. I would want to lynch Eclipse today if that can happen, very non committal to holding any one stance wrt bartozio lynch, abundance of null reads. I'm not seeing scum!athena for aforementioned reasons + the fact that  

Can someone summarize Junko case for me? I'm still missing a lot of pieces of the game :x

I think this is really relevant, regardless of in game circumstances I'm trying to imagine myself doing this and there's no chance in hell i'd do it as scum.

can someone make a list of claims for me?

##Vote: Eclipse

 

On 4/16/2018 at 6:08 PM, Lord Gaius said:

Nobody had actually made a defense of Eclipse and I think people are staying on Junko / this BS Kirsche wagon out of laziness and being afraid to change. Junkos play doesn't make sense from a scum slot but I don't see why that makes Kirsche scum, since most ppl are flipping away from Junko on tone / meta / playstyle as opposed to any form of analysis like what Kirsche was pushing him for, so the fact that one of these has to be scum is not true imo.

Nobody I've seen has reservations for eclipse beyond I'm not feeling it as much and I think junko / Kirsche are town town .

 

On 4/16/2018 at 6:12 PM, Lord Gaius said:

I'm really not on board with a Kirsche lynch

 

On 4/16/2018 at 8:00 PM, Lord Gaius said:

Anyway let's continue on with this lovely game. 

Page 8: Bibbon coming in with the list post that says nothing while criticizing weapons for similar play is scummy, not sure if new player (assuming so?). Coming up on the first Eury post, we can start analyzing ding her reads to see why scum possibly killed her. Lot's of optimal play jargon, but the important part is scum reads on the people making empty reads. This seems like an odd thing to NK for so will have to see if anything develops in her future posts. Not gonna worry about reading her. JB was really lazy off the start I feel like you can do better than that with your first post after 8 pages, but scumreading someone purely off laziness after 1 post is hard. what more annoys me is that he was pushing Fable for that w/o really saying anything of note himself.

Page 9: Nightmare is the 2nd person to make a listpost that doesn't say anything, super non commital lots of gut feelings. I don't like when ppl have to be prodded to drop a vote. Weapons is being really fuckin weird, but his post actually does a good job of explaining why his reads make sense as compared to bibbon or nate. 

I have never seen a weapons game where he has played conventionally and it doesn't seem like a stretch to say he's had those reads and chose not to post them.  I'm not very confident in this push, but Refa is being more proactive in turning his questioning into results so he's mostly dispelled my early game pings about him. 

Page 10:

This feels like he's struggling to make a proper read on Eclipse, it really goes all other the place and doesn't have a proper conclusion. possible scum / scum connections, once I finish reread i'm gonna go fully back and ISO Junko / Ctrl-F for other reads on him. 

I'm just going to accept Satsuma as null and not posting much and assume Snike is something of a universal townread according to what BBM told me when I first subbed in. Via's post was pretty good, not seeing any scum intent, open with thought processes on zeus read. Walrein seems to be townreading the whole game, other than a weakening scumread on Athena, I don't really know what the point of that post was, but his early content was good. Marth's opener is fine, notes Junko waffling earlier than anyone else.

10 page reads:

Scumvibes: Eclipse (still pushing bad play and question hunting w/o generating much of note, possible scum going for early towncred), JB (really egregious opener) 

Haven't said anything worth salt scum: Nightmare, Bibbon

Lean Town: Weapons, Kirsche, Via, Marth

Null: Rest

Reading Lord Gaius, he also looks pretty good as far as: good town PoE. He actively pushed against a Kirsche lynch. Seemed mindmeldy with me about kirsche/Junko being town/town. Never w/w with eclipse IMO.

All in all my eclipse world seems to be getting smaller.

[Makaze]

I am back to having to suspect Mackc2.

I had been brushing him off because of his claim, however, the more I think about it, the more I think it is a scum fakeclaim than a scum trueclaim OR a town trueclaim. I suggest that we find some way to test this, now that we know the Mafia's roleblocker is out of the way and cannot interfere.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I like that of the 17 players alive, 10 of them are subs with one doublesubbing. I'd seriously lol if the whole team minus Shinori bounced.

Next game I roll wolf on here, I am going to tell my entire team to 0 post, then sub out N1 while village eats itself alive D1, then leave notes on how to take over the thread D2.

[Makaze]

Never mind. I forgot, Mackc2's claim is confirmed already. Damn.

I seriously doubt that Satsuma is Mafia because of this bit from Satsuma in her colored reads list:

Quote

Shinori: I'm the most confident about Shinori being Town as of right now. All of his posts are very thoughtful, and he's quite proactive in pushing players for answers. For now, I trust him.

This is incredibly ballsy for a Mafia to say about another Mafia on D2. So ballsy, I tip my hat if I'm wrong.

[Makaze]

I just ISO'd Alette's entire slot and found nothing useful. Instead, she seemed intent on tunneling BBM, and said she "knew it" about Shinori? Eh

There's also one thing that bugs me, which is suspicion that she knew what ITP was (Alette is far from new. She's played on multiple sites) and was faking that question to look like a newb. But IDK how to reason that one.

@Alette Who is Mafia in your eyes? Why?

[Alette]

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I just ISO'd Alette's entire slot and found nothing useful. Instead, she seemed intent on tunneling BBM, and said she "knew it" about Shinori? Eh

There's also one thing that bugs me, which is suspicion that she knew what ITP was (Alette is far from new. She's played on multiple sites) and was faking that question to look like a newb. But IDK how to reason that one.

@Alette Who is Mafia in your eyes? Why?

Ok, so i spent the night reading what was after page 50, and I found that BBM was strange with his defense of Junko who flipped mafia. I also was suspicious of Shinori because he wasn't really saying much and what he did was scummy. I thought Via was scum until her role was explained more. Right now I am slightly suspicious at the hydra slot because Satsumo isn't really townie and snike seems agenda like. Also Jaybee is a bit scummy with how many times he seems to avoid a lynch. Also tbf, I never really see 3p nicked ITP, just the full name of that.

[Alette]

My town reads so far are 

Fable

Sully

Gaius

Via

in that order

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

20 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I seriously doubt that Satsuma is Mafia because of this bit from Satsuma in her colored reads list:

His! I wonder if it's because I always have cute girl avatars, or if I actually do talk like a girl...

[Makaze]

##Vote @Jaybee

Just read this ISO and there was not a SINGLE WORD ABOUT JUNKO OR SHINORI except this, before the lynch

On 4/12/2018 at 3:22 PM, Jaybee said:

hudsajd i forgot there was a junko wagon omg

tbvh nothing strikes me as too egregious from any of his posts on first glance, is it the general waffling? I'm not too hot about this, will need to see more before I have a stronger opinion

 

ok it's 3:22am i've spent like 5 hours on this i'm out goodbye see yall d2

Based on what I've been reading I am beginning to suspect a kirsche/Junko w/w wagon happened.

[Makaze]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

His! I wonder if it's because I always have cute girl avatars, or if I actually do talk like a girl...

It's the girl avatar lol

[Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Alette said:

Right now I am slightly suspicious at the hydra slot because Satsumo isn't really townie and snike seems agenda like.

Can you give an example what they said that made you think that?

( You can use these links to look at all their posts without having to go through the thread.)

3 minutes ago, Alette said:

Also Jaybee is a bit scummy with how many times he seems to avoid a lynch.

Do you mean he doesn't vote/say who he wants to lynch?

[Percivalé]

trying my best. I'm reading through shinori and I'm mega salty now cuz the ITP thing should have been a lot more obvious and it kind of was, it was weird everyone considered the hydra could be town & he was like "it could be ITP tho!!" even though it wasn't relevant and this is a thing scum does ALL the time to discredit peoples' townreads. I don't care what people say about this either. the topic wasn't relevant AT ALL at the time. then he got all "but I agreed with you though" then what was the point of bringing it up????????

@Zkirsche since you claimed your role can you claim your character too? I'm PRIMS and if I can match everyone's characters to their players I get a sick new role.

in response to whoever it was that asked me why I read kirsche's tone yesterday as scum (I'm sorry I looked through my notifs and I can't find who pinged me) I thought he was frustrated scum pulling the classic "this is stupid this is a bad lynch" and making specifically Refa feel bad for it, there was some guilt tripping that read me as scum getting desperate also. 

if there is an SK, and the SK is responsible for shinori's death, I'm not SK cuz I literally got blocked last night. I didn't say anything about having a night action before cuz it wasn't relevant at the time. I don't know why Makaze is still on about "whatever I am;" the last time someone did this (shinori) they were scum. if you don't think I'm town at this point I want a REAL case and not just "I'm wary about your role" no give me reasons why you think at this point I would be ITP over town. if me being distant from the game since D2 is your only argument I don't know what to say to that. this isn't really directed so much at Makaze but at anyone else who has the balls to be vague about their read on me.

sorry for outing I was blocked though. I forgot the scum blocker died and since no one knew I had an action (though it might have been assumed IDK) it made me flail in panic for a second.

am reading.