New Heroes Approach : Beyond Darkness (March 7 ~) SPOILERS: DATAMINE

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Garlyle said:

But what's with that skillset? It's nothing like the guy. When did anybody used a Vengeance and Vantage combo? And why Bond with that instead of Brazen or Fury? Come to think of it, why does the Lone Swordsman have a Bond skill to begin with? This is just terrible. The guy supposed to be the one who crits on every attack he does, but it doesn't reflect on his set one bit.

What I think they should've done is tried to mirror his "I make bosses much easier to fight early on" thing in FE6, since boss slaying is more Rutger's niche than anything else. Which FEH skills would best replicate this, I'm not sure. Although a Solo instead of a Bond would be one obvious change.

 

6 hours ago, Troykv said:

I guess IS discovered that Cavalry Mages are very powerful; but Cavalry Archers/Dagger are actually a bit underwhelming unless you have some special niche like Brave Lyn.

So in other words, the first time they tried the typing, they horrifically scared themselves into never making it again? That was wholly preventable, and it was and is in their power to make sure no other Bow Cav will be like that. Why didn't they realize Brave Lyn only had to be incredible because she was a Brave? I'm hoping they'll starting giving us more of them then if they've realized this. And not all Bow Cavs have to be gamebreaking, as Rutger indicates, not all Sword Infantries they make are.

 

Continuing thoughts on Sue, the Short Bow has nothing particularly "elemental" about it, right? No great gusts of winds, no Nagas encircling it? Does this mean that "requirement" for Colored Bows is now dead? Could it be wholly possible Shinon or Noire strolls onto the next NH a Blue Bow using just a Silencer or Hexed Bow?

 

One other thought that I've yet to express, I do like they turned the Short Bow into a Wo Dao equivalent. For once, they're worth something, and the Wo Dao is also distinctly Sacaen, like the Short Bow. Just imagine if FE6's Short Bows had Wo Dao crit.

[Usana]

You know this bow color issue really makes me wish it was the bows and not the units that were colored. But that would probably lead to a horribly complicated system since units would effectively be able to change their color through inheritance. But yeah I like Sue's design and stats, but that green color is not good for her.

Idunn. . . I am surprised. I was expecting them to powercreep Myrrh, but statwise Myrrh would probably be considered the better of the two for the most part. Myrrh basically trades spd for att and res for a point of def/hp each. A trade most would consider in Myrrh's favor. And her weapon while not better is at least not disappointing compared to Idunn's. Idunn has awesome art. Though Dragons seem to be pulling a page from Epic Battle Fantasy. Neck and heads only. This makes three of them now, right? The Grimas, Duma, and Idunn. Or is that four?

Or green footie I don't have much to say about other than to say he has a good statline.

Thea. Poor Catria is powercrept. Or would be if it weren't for her unique lance. Still this is a lot like Mia just being a better Athena. Though I suppose Catria gets to win in 1 stat(hp) unlike Athena who simply was lower all the way around. Bound to happen with bst increases, but still sad.  Though I suppose Shigure kinda already did that, he only loses in HP and by the same margin as Thea loses in hp. Oh and Sumia who loses 1 attack but is otherwise equal or better all around. So really this is nothing new. But at the same time Thea just fails to be exciting to me.

 

As for the skills. I find it sad that we are still seeing new dual seals. Those should have all been handed out in some way a long time ago. Skills just not being available is a big reason I think we need a large release of 'lesser' heroes. Not only to bring fresh life to the 3*-4* pool, but also to make some of those skills we never had a complete set of be available without disappointing folk by putting them on a 5* lock. Not sure how many new heroes we would need to make them available, but it wouldn't be too horribly many. Also wouldn't really bring in money tough, so I am not surprised that it hasn't been done. But not being able to play around with skills sets due to lack of modern inheritance options is really bumming me out and is helping me lose interest. Though I suppose having all the dual seals made available wouldn't really count as a 'modern' option anymore.

[Cute Chao]

6 minutes ago, Usana said:

Idunn. . . I am surprised. I was expecting them to powercreep Myrrh, but statwise Myrrh would probably be considered the better of the two for the most part. Myrrh basically trades spd for att and res for a point of def/hp each. A trade most would consider in Myrrh's favor. And her weapon while not better is at least not disappointing compared to Idunn's. Idunn has awesome art. Though Dragons seem to be pulling a page from Epic Battle Fantasy. Neck and heads only. This makes three of them now, right? The Grimas, Duma, and Idunn. Or is that four?

I think Garon only shows half of his sprite when he transforms, too, if I recall. 

[bottlegnomes]

Could Sue's bonus be a colored bow thing? Bows in general are in a bit of a bad spot, but I know colored bows especially have gotten a lot of flak with people saying they wished the units were just colorless instead. A 5 point BST bump would certainly help their case.

[Humanoid]

Only just got around to watching the trailer. Was a bit weirded out ...all three girls sounded pretty much the same to me. :o

I stopped playing FE6 after 3-4 missions - didn't hate it or anything, but I attempted this right after finishing FE8 and was all FE-ed out - so I can't really say whether this is a decently representative bunch of characters, on the surface it looks like it shouldn't be controversial but who knows if there's any major omission that I'm missing.

I certainly do share the disappointment of Thea and Rutger bringing nothing really new to the table, if not in terms of skills then at least in terms of statlines. Wish they'd be a bit more bold in terms of differentiating units here. I saw Thea's skills and figured that she'd be a flying Lukas or similar. But nope, same old boring Pegaknight statline. It's remarkable that the slowest flying lancer is still Florina at 27, and second slowest is Est at 30. Plenty of room to undercut that. We finally got the sword version in NY Hrid, and obviously axe versions have existed since launch, so c'mon IS, there's a huge glaring niche there to fill.

Rutger meanwhile is not just in the most popular class, he's in the most popular sub-class of said class. We (rightly) call Pegasus Knights a saturated category, but I'm reasonably sure there are more Myrmidons then there are flying lancers as a whole, even including the wyverns.

 

All up, I will likely spend a fairly token amount of orbs on this banner. The freebie and four tickets, plus maybe an additional few greens if they appear in those sessions because of the high rate. Red if greens (inevitably) fail to appear obviously, but I wish Idunn was infantry, a class who's only Gen 2 representative was ...Garon. Would be neat to have a red dragon to parallel the two Adrift Corrins.

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Rutger meanwhile is not just in the most popular class, he's in the most popular sub-class of said class. We (rightly) call Pegasus Knights a saturated category, but I'm reasonably sure there are more Myrmidons then there are flying lancers as a whole, even including the wyverns.

I made a spreadsheet for this just yesterday. Time to put it to use!

The other classes with 10+ units are:

• Red tome infantry (17)
• Lance infantry (12)
• Blue tome infantry (16)
• Axe infantry (16)
• Green tome infantry (15)
• Colorless bow infantry (19)
• Colorless dagger infantry (15)
• Staff infantry (13)
• Axe armor (11)
• Sword cavalry (15)
• Lance cavalry (17)

[Interdimensional Observer]

19 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

It's remarkable that the slowest flying lancer is still Florina at 27, and second slowest is Est at 30.

Weird, I'd expect Subaki to the the slowest Peg given game of origin and growths. Florina only makes sense if you pretend the Heavy Spear is actually killing her AS due to her measly 4 Con vs. a 14 Weight weapon.

Hopefully they will toy with someone's statline in the future for something slower. We've still plenty o' Wyverns and Pegs they've yet to add.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Etrurian emperor]

So Lugh seems to call out to both his brothers in his defeat quote. D'aaaw, Chad's not forgotten. 

Also it seems Raigh might have one of the complex FE names. Before Heroes everyone seemed to agree it was ''Ray'' or less commonly ''Lleu''. Then Heroes came to reveal his name was actually Raigh but now we have his twin brother addressing him as ''Ray'' again. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Etrurian emperor

[Azuni]

1 hour ago, Usana said:

But yeah I like Sue's design and stats, but that green color is not good for her.

Idunn. . . I am surprised. I was expecting them to powercreep Myrrh, but statwise Myrrh would probably be considered the better of the two for the most part. Myrrh basically trades spd for att and res for a point of def/hp each. A trade most would consider in Myrrh's favor. And her weapon while not better is at least not disappointing compared to Idunn's. Idunn has awesome art.

I wonder if they picked green just for the Sacae-wind relationship we've had going on (from Leg Lyn, etc).

As for the H!Myrrh vs Idunn, I personally would pick Idunn over the slightly better stat spread of Myrrh. That anti-armor weapon is absolutely amazing in high end Arena/AA, and a dangerous enemy to me in high end AR.

[bottlegnomes]

52 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Weird, I'd expect Subaki to the the slowest Peg given game of origin and growths. Florina only makes sense if you pretend the Heavy Spear is actually killing her AS due to her measly 4 Con vs. a 14 Weight weapon.

Hopefully they will toy with someone's statline in the future for something slower. We've still plenty o' Wyverns and Pegs they've yet to add.

Altenna would be a pretty solid choice for slow lance flier. She's not especially fast in her home game and Gae Bolg weighs her down quite a bit with no way of mitigating, either through bonuses it like some other Holy weapons had or con/str like later games

[Humanoid]

@Othin@Interdimensional Observer My per-game knowledge is probably a bit off, but from those units, I'd count the following as Myrmidons: Fir, Hana, Lon'qu, Athena, Lloyd, Navarre, Rutger, Joshua, Marisa, Lyn, Ryoma, Karel, Ayra, Mia, Karla, Owain. That's sixteen, so indeed more than the total number of flying lance units, assuming I haven't made too many arguable inclusions.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So Lugh seems to call out to both his brothers in his defeat quote. D'aaaw, Chad's not forgotten. 

Also it seems Raigh might have one of the complex FE names. Before Heroes everyone seemed to agree it was ''Ray'' or less commonly ''Lleu''. Then Heroes came to reveal his name was actually Raigh but now we have his twin brother addressing him as ''Ray'' again. 

Perhaps Raigh is pronounced "Ray?" I know I've always pronounced it as "Ray."

[Anacybele]

This'll be a skip for me since I don't play FE6 or anything, but it's good to finally see this game get a banner. It was WAY overdue imo. Also, I'm surprised Wolt isn't here with his close connection to Roy. Glaceon must be pretty unhappy too, she really wanted Wolt.

[Etrurian emperor]

22 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Perhaps Raigh is pronounced "Ray?" I know I've always pronounced it as "Ray."

I did as well in the FE6 days until Heroes implied I was doing it all wrong.

I suppose it fits since the ''gh'' in ''Lugh'' are silent as well. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Etrurian emperor

[Othin]

45 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

@Othin@Interdimensional Observer My per-game knowledge is probably a bit off, but from those units, I'd count the following as Myrmidons: Fir, Hana, Lon'qu, Athena, Lloyd, Navarre, Rutger, Joshua, Marisa, Lyn, Ryoma, Karel, Ayra, Mia, Karla, Owain. That's sixteen, so indeed more than the total number of flying lance units, assuming I haven't made too many arguable inclusions.

Those all sound right to me. I'd also count Hinata, he has the same Samurai class as Hana.

[Usana]

1 hour ago, Azuni said:

I wonder if they picked green just for the Sacae-wind relationship we've had going on (from Leg Lyn, etc).

As for the H!Myrrh vs Idunn, I personally would pick Idunn over the slightly better stat spread of Myrrh. That anti-armor weapon is absolutely amazing in high end Arena/AA, and a dangerous enemy to me in high end AR.

Yup, I did say that Idunn had the better weapon overall. I just feel Myrrh's is in the 'ballpark' since it lets her abuse Special Fighter. But I don't find a problem with Armors in AA much(plenty of counter units) and in Arena itself I do NOT want my armored score raisers killing things. I have a big enough issue with Myrrh and Amelia nuking crap and denying me bonus kills. But I am in that score range were I can only afford to miss 2 or maybe 3 bonus kills in a 5 match run. So Armor effective weapons could actually be a detriment for me in Arena if it causes Idunn to kill instead of weaken so that whatever half-baked bonus unit is up can score the kill. But yeah didn't mean to try and imply that Myrrh had the better weapon. Honestly if Special Fighter wasn't a thing it would be rather meh. But it just pairs so well with Special Fighter that I do like it.

3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I think Garon only shows half of his sprite when he transforms, too, if I recall. 

He does have legs visible though, so that isn't really the EBF style. Though now that forelegs being visible has come up, I think I forgot that Duma's legs are visible. Darn. I probably should have checked before listing him. So it is just the Grimas and Idunn then. Not quite a trend. Though Idunn really does look like something out of EBF :D.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Also it seems Raigh might have one of the complex FE names. Before Heroes everyone seemed to agree it was ''Ray'' or less commonly ''Lleu''. Then Heroes came to reveal his name was actually Raigh but now we have his twin brother addressing him as ''Ray'' again. 

Raigh's official name in Japanese is "Lleu", which a Welsh name that is pronounced like "lay".

"Lleu" is the Welsh equivalent of the Irish name "Lugh" (similar to how "Juan" is the Spanish equivalent of English "John"), which is pronounced like "loo".

 

"Raigh" is the localization team being terrible at their job.

EDIT: As for pronunciation, it looks like "Raigh" is the name of several places in Ireland and is pronounced like "ray".

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Seafarer]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So Lugh seems to call out to both his brothers in his defeat quote. D'aaaw, Chad's not forgotten. 

Also it seems Raigh might have one of the complex FE names. Before Heroes everyone seemed to agree it was ''Ray'' or less commonly ''Lleu''. Then Heroes came to reveal his name was actually Raigh but now we have his twin brother addressing him as ''Ray'' again. 

"Raigh" actually comes from Awakening. I always just assumed that the "gh" was silent, anyway.

[Anacybele]

I just figured Raigh is spelled that way in English to go with Lugh, so both have similarities in the names with the "gh" at the end. Doesn't really bother me. Also, sometimes in real life people give their kids weirdo spellings of existing names, so...

[Othin]

Huh. I'd always assumed that "Raigh" was pronounced like "Rye", but it looks like it's the same as "Ray": https://www.names.org/n/raigh/about

If they kept the pronunciation and went with an obscure but established alternate spelling for the symmetry with Lugh, like @Anacybele said, I think it's fine.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Huh. I'd always assumed that "Raigh" was pronounced like "Rye", but it looks like it's the same as "Ray": https://www.names.org/n/raigh/about

If they kept the pronunciation and went with an obscure but established alternate spelling for the symmetry with Lugh, like @Anacybele said, I think it's fine.

Me too. I pronounced it as rye. Now I know better.

Lleu pronounced as "loo" sounds kind of funny to me. The first thing that pops into my head when I hear loo is a person asking "Where is the loo?" in a British accent.

[Ice Dragon]

11 minutes ago, Othin said:

Huh. I'd always assumed that "Raigh" was pronounced like "Rye", but it looks like it's the same as "Ray": https://www.names.org/n/raigh/about

If they kept the pronunciation and went with an obscure but established alternate spelling for the symmetry with Lugh, like @Anacybele said, I think it's fine.

More stuff about "Raigh":

Google Translate tells me that "raigh" in Irish means "rage" in English, but the translation doesn't appear in the suggestions when I type "rage" in English and tell it to translate back to Irish.

Either way, it's still a mistranslation on the localization team's part. It has some superficial similarities with "Lugh" and the pronunciation matches the Japanese name in Japanese script, but it completely missed the point of the two twins' names, which is that "Lugh" and "Lleu" are the same name in two different languages (and refer to the Irish mythological hero Lugh Lamhfada).

 

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Lleu pronounced as "loo" sounds kind of funny to me. The first thing that pops into my head when I hear loo is a person asking "Where is the loo?" in a British accent.

Lleu is pronounced "lay". Lugh is pronounced "loo".

Maybe the translators think Americans can't be trusted to learn to pronounce foreign names correctly, like how Tsubaki's name was shortened to Subaki or Kazahana's to Hana.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Lleu is pronounced "lay". Lugh is pronounced "loo".

I need to improve my reading comprehension.

[bottlegnomes]

@Ice Dragon Wait is Kazahana not pronounced how it looks?

[Interdimensional Observer]

A silent "gh"? I've been saying "loo-gh", with only minimal weight on the second syllable, thinking it was accurate. Was I misremembering the pronunciation of "Lugh of the Long Arm" from that one Smithsonian documentary? Well silent "gh"s are not unheard of in English, I think "bright" counts.

Lleu being pronounced "lay" means I seriously don't understand anything about Welsh, a language which seems heavy on the "L"s. Certainly more distinctive than English Scottish from what little I've seen of that, where I can see through the words to what they'd probably be in usual English spelling, it makes sense Welsh would be much more distinct, as would Gaelic Scottish of course.

 

By the way, if Lugh is named after the Lugh I'm aware of, for mythological accuracy, I recommend giving him an eyepatch (if there is one available), since the deity Lugh had only one eye (and I think one arm).

 

I'd like to build teams for fun around the underlying mythological references, but I'm not sure whether they could have color variety. Team Greco-Roman War God/desses- Mar(s)th, Ares, Athena, Minerva, is 3/4s Sword unless one uses Bride Marth. Similarly, team Gawain: Greil, Ike (b/c Ragnell is Gawain's wife), Black Knight (because Gawain and the Green Knight, plus Alondite is called Ettard in Japan- a woman Gawain once slept with), and a not-yet-in Pelleas (b/c he wanted Gawain to convince Ettard to accept his love) would be 3/4s or 2/4s Sword.