Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Shrimpica]

...Now i need to distract myself with something so i can forget this discussion as Trails is more prone to ruining my day nowdays

F

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Haha, yeah, I figured that'd be the problem. I just said that because you described the thing as if it was supposed to automatically sound bad. If done correctly that idea has potential. It's just, well... Apparently not

Btw, didn't FE have something similiar with Robin-Grima?

Although it's a bit different in FE's case.

 

Anyway...

 

[null]

Just now, Shrimperor said:

Btw, didn't FE have something similiar with Robin-Grima?

Although it's a bit different in FE's case.

It was only for one game, but yeah. An alternate Robin is Grima's vessel and ends up being the final boss of Awakening.

[Sooks]

17 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

He is not only the MC, but the final boss as well

Imagine that lmao.

And the explanation for that was fanfiction tiers of stupid.

Scrath that, i would take bad smut fanfics over what people call modern Falcom writing.

 

xD

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

...Now i need to distract myself with something so i can forget this discussion as Trails is more prone to ruining my day nowdays

F

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Btw, didn't FE have something similiar with Robin-Grima?

Although it's a bit different in FE's case.

It actually makes sense in universe and is set up long before we find out because we already know that 

Spoiler

people from a different future came back in time.

So it revolves around a central plot point. I actually liked it, I thought it fit nicely and was a cool twist that was simple enough to be good and shocking at the same time.

[Interdimensional Observer]

33 minutes ago, Sooks said:

How is this a bad thing?

I assume it allllllllll depends on context.

Link works as the main protagonist of every single Zelda, even if it isn't the exact same person, because Link is a silent protagonist and Zelda games aren't huge on story. Although I've only played one Ys game, I assume Nihon Falcom's (the Trails series's developer as well) has done the same with Adol, who could very readily be compared to Link.

However, if we're talking about a franchise with a greater focus on its story and character development, and the main character isn't silent, then is having them be the main character for multiple games such a good idea? Maybe, but it could go awry. A single character can only develop so much if every game is a long tale of serious struggles and drama with a narrative-character focus directly on them. A single character can have only so many secrets in their past they must confront.

At a certain point, I think it's inevitable the character would become overexposed to the player, their growth would stop and they'd become stagnant. It would be in their own interest if they definitively moved off the center of the stage. Perhaps they could stay on, but it would be in an auxiliary role.

I think a good case of a partial retirement would be, a game I've spoken of several times here before and apologize if I've spoken of it too much, Super Robot Taisen: OG Saga Endless Frontier: EXCEED. Haken, the main protagonist from the first game, is no longer the central main character, that role gracefully passing to Alady, but, Haken retains a little story arc for himself it's Kaguya and Suzuka who get shoved in a closet, and there is one awesome moment where they manifest this passing of the lead.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I wished there was a Fire Emblem game without a protagonist / avatar...

Seriously I absolutely do not need them.

 

Or make it like FE10's earlygame everyone must be kept alive.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Jules Necrofantasia

[Shrimpica]

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

However, if we're talking about a franchise with a greater focus on its story and character development, and the main character isn't silent, then is having them be the main character for multiple games such a good idea? Maybe, but it could go awry. A single character can only develop so much if every game is a long tale of serious struggles and drama. A single character can have only so many secrets in their past they must confront. At a certain point, I think it's inevitable the character would become overexposed to the player, their growth would stop and they'd become stagnant. It would be in their interest if they definitively moved off the center of the stage. Perhaps they could stay on, but it would be in an auxiliary role

Yup.

In case of older Trails, every other protag got 1-2 games and then moved on to be in a supporting role. And then it's always a treat to see them again and see how they've been doing for all these years the story has been moving forward, or some not finished plot points relating to them popping up to have a satisfying ending.

For Mr. Blackhole they kept shoving him down our Throats with even more ''secrets'' and repeating the same damn setting again, just in a different place.

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I think a good case for partial retirement would be, a game I've spoken of several times here before and apologize if I've spoken of it too much, Super Robot Taisen: OG Saga Endless Frontier: EXCEED. Haken, the main protagonist from the first game, is no longer the central main character, that role gracefully passing to Alady, but, Haken retains a little story arc for himself it's Kaguya and Suzuka who get shoved in a closet, and there is one awesome moment where they manifest this passing of the lead.

yeah something like that is always cool.

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although I've only played one Ys game, I assume Nihon Falcom's (the Trails series's developer as well) has done the same with Adol, who could very readily be compared to Link.

Yup.

Except for one game which is a prequel to the series, and the past sections in Ys 8, Adol works because he can be compared to Link. 

Back when the games were not as Story focused, Adol used to be the hero of every prophecy in existence and have all the girls fall for him, but the main point of the games was the awesome action gameplay anyway. From Ys 7 on, once the games started becoming story focused, they have been removing those aspects and putting them into Trails instead. If one wants something aking to classic Trails, modern Ys is a good enough alternative

Edited January 21, 2021 by Shrimperor

[Shrimpica]

When Falcom (music) used to be good...

First dungeon theme btw...

5 minutes ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

I wished there was a Fire Emblem game without a protagonist / avatar...

Seriously I absolutely do not need them.

 

Or make it like FE10's earlygame everyone must be kept alive.

As much as i like the perma death aspect gameplay wise

It's honestly pretty much works against FE's story, as characters have to be expandable.

Maybe they should introduce a mode where if anyone dies, it's a game over and build the story around it or something. Current Classic and Casual will still exist, ofc, but for gameplay more than anything.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I am absolutely glad that I overrode the negative comments about Kirby Star Allies in this thread because this game is great so far (doing world 3 right now).

It might be the most broken Kirby game, yes, but if you do play it the classic way, it can become quite challenging.

Either way it is superfun.

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

It's honestly pretty much works against FE's story, as characters have to be expandable.

Maybe they should introduce a mode where if anyone dies, it's a game over and build the story around it or something. Current Classic and Casual will still exist, ofc, but for gameplay more than anything.

I know... it was rather my wishful thinking... though I wished the plot was carried equally by a group instead of just one person.

FE10 did it well in this regard that several people have some importance to be kept alive for certain chapters. I think the reason for the forced survival of all the DB characters is simply to have enough manpower to overcome the first four chapters. The fourth map is one of the hardest in the game.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

Unfortunately the lack on other Ragnell users aside of Ike.

I mean, that's like complaining about the lack of Falchion users aside from Marth (and Alm, Chrom and Lucina).

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

However, if we're talking about a franchise with a greater focus on its story and character development, and the main character isn't silent, then is having them be the main character for multiple games such a good idea? Maybe, but it could go awry. A single character can only develop so much if every game is a long tale of serious struggles and drama with a narrative-character focus directly on them. A single character can have only so many secrets in their past they must confront.

Well what you say can be true but if we look outside of games, long-running book series can do well sticking to a protagonist (I bring up books because entries). To bring up a relevant example (since I'm currently reading it), Percy Jackson. In the first series, Percy is the main protagonist for five books straight. And in the second series, Heroes of Olympus, he's still the main protagonist. Although, tbf, HoO has a lot of differing perspectives so while Percy is still the main protagonist, he ain't the only one anymore.

And while not a book character, the grandfather of all long-running protagonists is The Doctor. Doctor Who's been going since 1963, The Doctor's been a main protagonist since before any of us were born. Although the show keeps it fresh because of Regeneration so again, maybe not the best example of doing long-running protagonists right.

Idk, I'm just putting out my two cents.

11 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Maybe they should introduce a mode where if anyone dies, it's a game over and build the story around it or something. Current Classic and Casual will still exist, ofc, but for gameplay more than anything.

You'd have to drastically cut down the amount of characters which.......I'd be fine with. Maybe. Idk.

[Shrimpica]

Honestly though, i wish RPGs will move on from the dating sim nonsense and turn to routes instead where choices mean completely different Stories and routes.

Or maybe that's just the VN reader in me talking, where playing different routes is usually exciting because of how choices can lead to completely different stories with the same characters i loved.

The Characters are still themselves, they just develop/react differently due to different choices and story changes.

With something like that i wouldn't mind ''multipe Romance interests'' in RPG, aslong as each Romance interest has a path and story where all characters develop differently.

Or just delete dating sim elements entirely thanks

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Although, tbf, HoO has a lot of differing perspectives so while Percy is still the main protagonist, he ain't the only one anymore.

I think that helps here alot.

If a protag already had his development he can still be a protag, but (and it's a big but) they shouldn't be the sole focus of the story and share the spotlight with other characters, where they develop greatly as well and interact without the protag needing to be the center of everything.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Shrimperor

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

literally the best medley

 

9 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I mean, that's like complaining about the lack of Falchion users aside from Marth (and Alm, Chrom and Lucina).

None of them aside of Alm (I believe) has to set the final blow on the final boss.

That is the issue I have with FE10.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Honestly though, i wish RPGs will move on from the dating sim nonsense and turn to routes instead where choices mean completely different Stories and routes.

It's ok, you can blame Persona.

Jokes aside, this is a good idea, but it also depends on the romance options you're given. Too many routes in a story-based game isn't always a good thing.

5 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

If a protag already had his development he can still be a protag, but (and it's a big but) they shouldn't be the sole focus of the story and share the spotlight with other characters, where they develop greatly as well and interact without the protag needing to be the center of everything.

Yep. A good way of going about it is not starting the new story with the protagonist you just saw develop over the course of a few entries. In the first book of Heroes of Olympus, Percy is MIA, he does not show up at all for that first book.

Or for a more relevant example, like how Radiant Dawn starts with Micaiah and Ike doesn't show up until halfway in (even though he kinda steals her spotlight a bit but shhhh).

[Saint Rubenio]

17 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Maybe they should introduce a mode where if anyone dies, it's a game over and build the story around it or something. Current Classic and Casual will still exist, ofc, but for gameplay more than anything.

I don't think it's necessary to go this far. The KagaSaga games prove that you can avoid a Binding Blade situation by just... actually making an effort to give the secondaries scenes. Having a solid cast of NPCs also helps. The relative irrelevance of secondary playables is a lot less of an issue when the protagonist has more than two people to talk to otherwise.

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You'd have to drastically cut down the amount of characters which.......I'd be fine with. Maybe. Idk.

That would utterly murder FE for me, so... Yeah, sorry, but I really, really hope this does not happen. Ever. Personally speaking, tiny casts would remove most of this series's replay value and appeal. Please no.

[Acacia Sgt]

Something something SRW...

Heck, a SRW or two has not implemented a central OC protagonist, making it even more ensemble cast than what SRW tends to be.

[Shrimpica]

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Jokes aside, this is a good idea, but it also depends on the romance options you're given. Too many routes in a story-based game isn't always a good thing

VNs do limit themselves to some routes, like 3-5 or so. 

Some have a True path that's more fleshed out than everything else, while having mini routes and/or Bad Ends that explain a bit how the story would've went then.

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't think it's necessary to go this far. The KagaSaga games prove that you can avoid a Binding Blade situation by just... actually making an effort to give the secondaries scenes. Having a solid cast of NPCs also helps. The relative irrelevance of secondary playables is a lot less of an issue when the protagonist has more than two people to talk to otherwise

That is true, and i loved how the lord was mostly absent from Side quests.

Although i do think characters needed a bit more fleshing out, but Berwick definetly had the right idea.

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

hat would utterly murder FE for me, so... Yeah, sorry, but I really, really hope this does not happen. Ever. Personally speaking, tiny casts would remove most of this series's replay value and appeal. Please no.

And make Iron mans impossible, too. 

Dw will probably never happen xD

Edited January 21, 2021 by Shrimperor

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Jules Necrofantasia said:

None of them aside of Alm (I believe) has to set the final blow on the final boss.

That is the issue I have with FE10.

Even with Alm you can still beat Duma with someone else. Sure, it's restricted to your Clerics/Saints since only Nosferatu can kill him aside from Falchion... but it's still much better than what Radiant Dawn did.

[Acacia Sgt]

But seriously people. What you want is SRW. So instead of turning FE into SRW... go play SRW already and leave FE alone!

[Shrimpica]

soon ™️ 

[Saint Rubenio]

4 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Although i do think characters needed a bit more fleshing out, but Berwick definetly had the right idea.

I agree that some characters could've used more screentime (Aegina got done dirty, for example, and I think Dean would've benefitted from another scene or two), but I felt that people like Arthur, Ruby, Axel, Owen, Sylvis, Enid, Derrick... don't really need much more than what they got. They all had their own stories and development. To give them much more would just be fluff. Neat, perhaps, but not absolutely necessary.

Bottom line, that system is in my opinion the best. FE has supports, which is... okay, but support conversations suffer from being overly "synthetic", for a lack of a better world. It's like they take place in a separate world from the actual plot - a world where only the two characters involved exist, detached from everything else. That severely limits their potential. It's possible to do great things with them, but the flaws are evident.

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

But seriously people. What you want is SRW. So instead of turning FE into SRW... go play SRW already and leave FE alone!

If I wanted to look for a gameplay video of SRW, just out of curiousity, what game would you recommend I check out? Sorry if you've already answered this before in this thread.

[Armagon]

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The KagaSaga games prove that you can avoid a Binding Blade situation by just... actually making an effort to give the secondaries scenes. Having a solid cast of NPCs also helps. The relative irrelevance of secondary playables is a lot less of an issue when the protagonist has more than two people to talk to otherwise.

I can't speak for TearRing, I do know Berwick gives each character (or most characters) a paralouge, which is dope, but I wouldn't say Vestaria had the right idea. Vestaria felt like a 90s FE game that came out two decades too late when it came to fleshing out characters.

[Sooks]

34 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And while not a book character, the grandfather of all long-running protagonists is The Doctor. Doctor Who's been going since 1963, The Doctor's been a main protagonist since before any of us were born. Although the show keeps it fresh because of Regeneration so again, maybe not the best example of doing long-running protagonists right.

Idk, I'm just putting out my two cents.

You'd have to drastically cut down the amount of characters which.......I'd be fine with. Maybe. Idk.

Well his personality changes at least somewhat with every regeneration, or at least the modern ones.

[null]

This is a banger. Great live performance too.

Crossbell seems so far away, haha.

Morning, everyone. *waves*

[Shrimpica]

Oh yeah Mizutani ❤️

Sadly she left. Thanks, Falcom.

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

If I wanted to look for a gameplay video of SRW, just out of curiousity, what game would you recommend I check out? Sorry if you've already answered this before in this thread.

Well, that's going to depend. Since like FE, SRW is a very long-runner series. Just one year apart. Exactly one year. The first SRW game was released 20 April, 1991. Though with a much higher number of games than FE, so the gameplay has evolved for much longer in comparison.

When it comes down to it, considering you need fan translations to play most of the games (unless you're like me, who knows enough Japanese to at least play them), it boils down to a few options:

SRW J, as the last GBA SRW, is the most polished for an easy in into what SRW is but still recognizably "modern". Full fan translation too.

Modern SRW's, the VTX Trilogy. Played best in release order: V then X then T. They have official English translations, though still only sold in East Asia. But since they're for PS4 and Switch, you can import or buy from the online store with the proper profile.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Well his personality changes at least somewhat with every regeneration, or at least the modern ones.

Yeah, his (or currently her) personality change each Regeneration. Despite being the same character, people have different opinions on which Doctor they like best.

Like for me, my favorite Doctor is Twelve, primarily due to this scene

Eternally relevant.

The Tenth Doctor and Fourth Doctor would be my second and third favorites respectively.