Qprogue Mafia - Game Over

[Percivalé]

I'm not seeing the Shin case. Mostly, this is because Shin has posted so little that I can't get anything off of him other than minor pings.

why are you reading me as scum then for basically the same reasons lol??? I think you mentioning thinking Beli was scummy for this too but I don't remember.

[Percivalé]

I read Beli and I don't like his empty unvote and "lol I'm paying attention to the other game sry" I read it scummy on the level I read Poly as scummy. it sounds avoidant and his eclipse vote felt lazy

[Percivalé]

not interested in a shin lynch either

what DO you guys think about BBM??

[Prims]

Day 1.6 - Votals

Sara. (4) - BBM, Shin, Refa, Rapier

Bluedoom (3) - Xinnidy, Randa & NekoRex

BBM (1) - Quote

Belisarius (1) - eclipse

eclipse (1) - kirsche

MancerNecro (1) - Burakkuhoku

Quote (1) - MancerNecro

Randa & NekoRex (1) - Bluedoom

Not Voting (2): Belisarius, Sara.

Class Selection

Assassin (2) - Randa & NekoRex

Fighter (2) - Refa, Bluedoom

Knight (2) - MancerNecro, Rapier

Indecisive (10): Everybody Else

You have 24 hours and 13 minutes left in the day. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Xinnidy has been prodded.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Prims

[Rapier]

also this isn't because I think elie is town (although if he flips scum I'm gonna be so surprised because that outburst REALLY did not strike me as scum!elie, if anything it was way more null and I understand why Rapier would read it as AtE but I'm just not seeing scum!elie outwardly refusing to participate in the rest of D1 like that and refusing to respond more to BBM's case on him)

The thing is, Elie did participate on D1 but didn't contribute much to the discussion. You complained about BBM's focus on Elie, which I partly disagree with because he's got legit reasons for believing that he's scummy (but I agree that BBM should try reading someone else as well, even if it's become difficult), but you completely missed out the fact that Elie's only scumread on the entire game was based on a misinterpretation on what Kirsche said, which is much worse than BBM's focus on Elie.

[Randa]

prims is that a mistake with the classes or is one of their votes not valid.

[Prims]

mistake, fixed

[Randa]

ahhh. i was hoping it could be indicative of scum not being able to vote for a second class each day. wouldv'e been nice.

[Percivalé]

The thing is, Elie did participate on D1 but didn't contribute much to the discussion. You complained about BBM's focus on Elie, which I partly disagree with because he's got legit reasons for believing that he's scummy (but I agree that BBM should try reading someone else as well, even if it's become difficult), but you completely missed out the fact that Elie's only scumread on the entire game was based on a misinterpretation on what Kirsche said, which is much worse than BBM's focus on Elie.

I'm gonna admit that this is mostly based on elie's meta which idk if you would know since this is apparently your first game in a while?? (I wouldn't know because I've been banned from the maf section on my own wishes) but yeah, this is why I'm feeling kinda weird about this whole thing

[Refa]

Didn't Beli say he would do that before the game even began? Like I can see where you're coming from with the rest of it (although I'd say he's playing just like he does as town), but that part should be strictly null.

I've been townreading BBM for pretty much the whole game (as evidenced by me being completely OK with sheeping his Elieson case). Could explain myself here if you want.

Someone help motivate me to ISO Randa/Neko. The beginning is the most important part of the work.

[Percivalé]

im having an anxiety attack unrelated to the game and need to step away for the night, sorry

[Randa]

Didn't Beli say he would do that before the game even began? Like I can see where you're coming from with the rest of it (although I'd say he's playing just like he does as town), but that part should be strictly null.

I've been townreading BBM for pretty much the whole game (as evidenced by me being completely OK with sheeping his Elieson case). Could explain myself here if you want.

Someone help motivate me to ISO Randa/Neko. The beginning is the most important part of the work.

you can see me post like an idiot. is that not motivating enough.

[BBM]

I don't really have a strong suspicion on anybody except Elie. I'm a little bothered by Poly and Beli and that's around it, but I feel atm like my problems with them are just me being frustrated at them rather than me finding them scummy.

Elie's response to people casing him on the kirsche vote like... just doesn't make sense, at all, to me. In addition to what Rapier said about it in #381, the switch from SO SURE THIS GUY IS SCUM to right in the middle of the scum spectrum just because people disputed his case looks way too abrupt and makes me feel the initial scumread was fabricated. Like, if you were really sure someone was scum based on something, even if people disputed your reasoning or whatever, wouldn't you still carry some sort of niggling feeling in the back of your head, at least for a while? I'm not seeing that feeling in Elie's posts, which is why I feel like he's scum and not shitty town.

Additionally, his scum spectrum is cool and all, but there's like nothing there backing it up at all. Via's gut vibe on me doesn't bother me as much¹ because he mentioned me tunneling on Elie, and has also previously expressed misgivings about my early posts. Elie's said literally nothing about my alignment or Marth's alignment all game and suddenly we're two of his top three scumreads? The Marth one is especially WTF because unlike with me, they haven't even had any notable interactions.

¹I would still like Via to give opinions on people who might actually be lynched today, other than Elie

also Elie I thought you were crumbing dayvig because I have a reason to believe that there's a 50% chance that a vig role, if it exists, is non-elemental.

[Percivalé]

well the on;ly people i can see getting lycnhed right at this moment are elie and marth, i don't wanna lynch elie and i ahevnt' reread marth so there's that i guess

[Rapier]

I read Beli and I don't like his empty unvote and "lol I'm paying attention to the other game sry" I read it scummy on the level I read Poly as scummy. it sounds avoidant and his eclipse vote felt lazy

Yes, Beli's acting lazy and I feel that his 'D1 is merely a glorified RVS' is just an excuse to do nothing, yet I don't believe scum would be as clueless as he is (his first post after a dozen of pages is RVS quality) nor that they'd intentionally abstain from participating in the game and alienating the Town to a wrong path. Or maybe I'm clinging to meta, which is justified by his past performance in games that I've played (comes late, posts little, never seems motivated enough to engage with the game).

[Refa]

Learning is not child's play; we cannot learn without pain. You know what'll help facilitate that?

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

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FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER FIGHTER

[Randa]

somebody convince me that we should condense on eli and not marth please.

[Bluedoom]

FUCK THE NET ATE UP MY POST

Ok I have less time to get a lot in here but I'll make this short and concise:

- Elie's Null leaning scum for me because I read his reaction to the Rapier thing as town but he's scummy for reasons BBM gave earlier. Also wtf at his scum spectrum where I'm scumread when he never said anything about me earlier. I'd rather lynch my other scumreads over him but I'll lynch him aNYWAY if its necessary.

- Poly's recent post haven't changed my mind of them because the reasoning is weak for his Rapier vote, and the next vote is a votepark and he never analyzes the game later.

Ok my net is dying on me but I'll make a vote shift most likely when I come back from college. I was gonna say I was bothered by Rapier's current votin history with that mudslingng at me, empty unvote and then Elie vote but I can only elaborate on that later.

[Bluedoom]

Also yes definitely fire because its awesome

[Refa]

somebody convince me that we should condense on eli and not marth please.

more suspicious of Elie again because:

a) kirsche suspicion is really weak and semantic because I also took it to mean "we don't want to waste the day if Rapier is scum" and not "we don't want to waste the day because Rapier is scum"

b) other than "oh Poly is sheeping" the above kirsche content is his only cause for a suspicion

c) he's not looking at any other part of kirsche's content; he's focusing on that one sentence to the point of treating it at as a scumslip

d) paragraph on Eclipse is a lot of mudslinging and throwing suspicion at her without committing to a scumread so it's really also a lot of padding

[b##Unvote, ]##Vote: Elie[/b]

This sounds awful to me. First, if you don't have a clue about what to do or who to push, you read ISOs and reread them if necessary, you question others' reads and press them about their position regarding the game. From your post, I read it as if you don't care about pursuing any reads or doing any sort of scumhunt, which is detrimental to the Town. What makes me see scum intent within your post is how you don't actually care about contributing.

What exactly is 'meh-quality' on BBM's case? If anything, he's got all the reasons for pressing you for your bad Kirsche vote (now combined with your lack of interest in contributing to the game). Besides, your reply to BBM's case consists on admitting that your case on Kirsche was bad... yet you also admit that you don't know what is wrong with it. It sounds as if you're doing this in order to look better because there are people criticizing you for it while you don't understand what is wrong with your reasoning.

Elie's response to people casing him on the kirsche vote like... just doesn't make sense, at all, to me. In addition to what Rapier said about it in #381, the switch from SO SURE THIS GUY IS SCUM to right in the middle of the scum spectrum just because people disputed his case looks way too abrupt and makes me feel the initial scumread was fabricated. Like, if you were really sure someone was scum based on something, even if people disputed your reasoning or whatever, wouldn't you still carry some sort of niggling feeling in the back of your head, at least for a while? I'm not seeing that feeling in Elie's posts, which is why I feel like he's scum and not shitty town.

Additionally, his scum spectrum is cool and all, but there's like nothing there backing it up at all. Via's gut vibe on me doesn't bother me as much¹ because he mentioned me tunneling on Elie, and has also previously expressed misgivings about my early posts. Elie's said literally nothing about my alignment or Marth's alignment all game and suddenly we're two of his top three scumreads? The Marth one is especially WTF because unlike with me, they haven't even had any notable interactions.

¹I would still like Via to give opinions on people who might actually be lynched today, other than Elie

also Elie I thought you were crumbing dayvig because I have a reason to believe that there's a 50% chance that a vig role, if it exists, is non-elemental.

Also you should vote Fire even if you're scum. It will definitely give you townie points in my books.

[Randa]

ehhh. still not really convinced hes scum, or town for that matter. then again i doubt ill be convinced either way until he flips. its just the whole way hes played screams,"why the hell would scum do this". i'll move for consoledation purposes, which now puts eli at L-2.

## unvote

## Vote:eli

[Rapier]

Fine, I'll sheep.

Deselect

##Select: Fire

I hope I'm not falling for Marth & Refa's trick.

[MancerNecro]

Regarding voting for the Fighter class, I wouldn't mind doing it but I'd still prefer my Knight class being activated this night.

##Unselect: Knight, ##Select: Fighter

Going to do another reread. Nothing much in the last few pages that relates to me so not much to respond to.

@Levity: ((Fine, I'll use the general gender pronoun to refer to you.)) My reasons for finding you scummy is not the same as everyone else's reasons for finding Shin scummy. I just think that you could be doing better and you're leaving yourself too much flexibility with your vote which has a scummy intent behind it.

Going to reread Elieson and Shin's ISOs since they are the only other cases right now and I don't see the Bluedoom and Levity cases I have now gaining any ground.

[Percivalé]

Yea bc I'm town 8) and I think you're town too so you should try voting scum ty

As for class I wanna vote fire I guess or fighter or w/e but do I have to change the color to red because I can't fo that on mobile atm and my net is dead

[eclipse]

kirsche is getting no response until he devotes time to the rest of the game, because there was content between here and here. This is the scummiest thing he's done, right next to that one statement that I will forever have problems with.

You get to accuse me of being scum after you read the game thoroughly.

Just the interesting bits from this one.

so i feel like this is just me, yes that was intentional fite me, but anyways i'm not getting any clear messages from this. i feel like you make some decent points against kirsche, but at the end you sort of waffle on whether or not he is actually scum.

His current lack of interaction with everyone else is starting to make me think he's scum. Before then, I wanted to see how he'd respond (badly was not what I had in mind).

Number list - fair enough. Ditto with the point on NNR.

so again i feel like you waffle on kirsche here. though i'm glad you got solid reads on mancer and marth. regardles of the fact that i dont agree with you about marth.

I was trying to make sense of him. After his latest post, which has very little to do with things Not Me, I feel a little bit better about my current read (explained earlier). Also, relevant (I remember reading something about keeping my opinions flexible so I can change my mind later, and this link should address that).

is it bad that i kinda just wanna lynch like anybody at this point. like even one flip would help so much at this point. whatever. uhh, im gonna check marth again because people seem to be against that pretty heavily, also we should actually remember we still have to chose the second element. with that said, rng.org declares

##Select: DARK

Now you know how I feel, though I've got a few people who I have townreads on (not really interested in outing them right now, as only one of them is in any danger of being lynched).

This game has completely lost me, I can barely handle Eclipse, much less anyone else

The inside quote? No, it states you DON'T have a preference for it, and you Selected Assassin, but the next quote says you DO have a Holy ability, which makes no sense to me. What do you want me to infer from that? How does it help your argument? It just reads as padding or just confusing shit.

The rest doesn't even apply, I was voting based on your pointless rolespec and 'scumslips' that don't really apply, followed by dropping Rapier and voting me for shallow reasons, even when you stated you explicitly had a much better player to vote in the same post.

It's called "a role that's going to piss off everyone". Just as you'd be rightfully pissed if you had a mandatory role that forced you to draw the night kill on an odd-numbered night, but you wouldn't be informed of when it was (this is a hypothetical example).

Now, if I am THAT HARD to read, you are free to pursue the other 13 slots.

For someone who complains about others not reading your posts, I wish you'd avoid doing the same. I said I wasn't going to vote Marth as of yet because I can't find scummy content from him, which is not the same as dismissing my reads on him. I said I was going to reread him and dig up info (which I will do later).

Also, my associative reads on Marth and Refa imply that, since Refa has been buddying up with Marth, if the latter flips scum, it is likely that the former is also scum. If anything, I am assuming alignments based on future flips and not before they happen.

I don't really see it odd when two players sharing the same slot defend eachother. You know, if one is lynched, the other will fall as well. Unless I read this part in a wrong way (which is perfectly plausible in my current state).

This. . .makes it ten times worse. WHY are you even throwing out associative reads if you haven't even read one of the parties?! That actually pushes your sloppy play into scum territory. Sometimes, it is in your best interest to let sleeping dogs lie.

Also, buddying doesn't necessarily work like that, as SF is super-bus-happy.

You're being incredibly rude to the host. Play or sub out. Honestly, I wouldn't mind having you lynched, so that Prims can save the sub for someone who has a better reason for it.

I don't see what is so wrong with Randa having to defend NekoRex. They probably have a discussion going in their Hydra role PM on their thoughts perhaps?

There is nothing wrong with Neko and Randa disagreeing with each other or being polar opposites since they are two separate players despite sharing the same Hydra slot. Although, I do think that both of them need to discuss their reads more with each other and consolidate their reads wrt the votes they place. They do not have to agree with each other but they should communicate well and consolidate their reads and vote better. Honestly, I sense Randa trying to contribute and help out. Other than me, he's the only one that has been active enough to be memorable and actually discussed most of the things that have been happening in the thread.

. . .and there goes half the players. RIP all of us! Just because we're not spamming the thread doesn't mean we're unmemorable!

I see a disturbing lack of vote on myself.

Poly asking to be NK'd actually read as scummy to me lmao, I think asking to be NK'd publicly is a scummy thing to do tbh ~#littleviathings~

Just a quick question: What would you think if someone made this statement?

Do NOT attempt to doc me (or any other variant that would stop a kill by targeting me)

---

Sheeping my scumread's reponse on the person that I'm voting. Seriously, there's a difference between not having reads (which isn't necessarily scummy, a lot of players have trouble getting reads, especially on D1) and actively making an effort not to contribute (which is what you're doing). I am TOTALLY COOL with my vote here.

Also people should definitely pick fire. Those who know, do. Those who understand, teach.

##Vote: Fire

Since apparently we have to revote and everything, and Fire is not Holy. It should also make for an amusing night (amusing for me, that is).

I get the feeling that Eli's stuck in the early part of D1, and hasn't been paying much attention since. I've been reading him as null until his latest posts, but since it's not a solid town read, I'm willing to consolidate on him (it's that lack of vote on me that did it). However, that would put him at L-1, and I'm not interested in doing that, so vote stays put for now. I will NOT vote for Marth, because I don't have any major issues with his play right now. Am starting to feel worse about kirsche (lack of interactions with others in recent activity) and Rapier (drawing incomplete associative reads) - of the two, I'd feel slightly better about the latter being the back-up lynch, since I doubt I'm going to get everyone to collectively kick Beli out of the game for actively not participating. I still have seriously mixed feelings regarding the Randa/Neko slot - I've got a decent town read on Randa and a scum one on Neko (the latter due to a bad case and lack of interaction with everyone else).

Therefore, vote staying put.