Qprogue Mafia - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

You're obvious town because I don't expect someone who has had a hiatus for about a year to come back as scum and claim neighbour straight off the bat just to get their class vote in which you would've figured out if you had read my post earlier addressing kirsche. And also I still find Poly scummy that's why he's in my priority list he just hasn't posted much so I can't get any more thoughts on him.

[Randa]

Wait so nobody bothered pointing that out when I was discussing the classes most likely to have scum. Why?

[Randa]

Let the records show that that post was about mancers comment not Marths.

[MancerNecro]

I skimmed over that post cause I thought you were just speculating on the number of players with each element in the game or the total number of players on each team. My bad, Randa.

@Bluedoom: It is 100% possible to get scum reads without any interactions with me. Look at everyone's Shin case. Nothing to do with him interacting with me. Look at the reasons someone said Refa is scummy for. The reads on Elieson comes from his interactions with kirsche and has nothing to do with me either.

I just feel that you are really lazy and just want to sheep and defend me a little way too much.

Using my meta and/or knowledge that I was on a hiatus is a really weak town tell. I can still be as experienced with the game as I was before the hiatus. That should be a null tell or a minor town tell at best. It is not enough reason to pin me as obvious town since it's a very weak reason.

[MancerNecro]

I think we should go with a Bluedoom lynch today. Too little information and posts to find anyone else scummy and I dislike Bluedoom's post on non-me-related content because it's all town reads and null reads that does not help town at all (rather, it helps scum more to narrow down their night kill targets).

That is a point completely unrelated to my earlier point about him not having any content that is unrelated to interactions with me which is another reason to find him scummy too for using me as a shield or cover to protect himself with.

[MancerNecro]

Prims, can we lynch without a hammer?

[NekoRex]

300 posts in not even 48 hours @_@

How can you people keep up with this?

I'm still trying to soak this up but i'm going to point out I didn't start voting eclipse until she came back, and the first post back cemented to me that eclipse still intended to be vague and confusing regardless of her reading status. Eclipse didn't exist before the vote, so I didn't vote.

Although pointing out a 'scumslip' without explaining it is inherently flawed, especially when you add a vote in and expect a power-wagon out of it.

Using your Role PM to find 'scumslips' is inherently bad play a well, something I wouldn't condone either because it's gaming the setup and inherently makes me frown intensely as someone who hosts role madness / gimmick games.

Clipsey finally comes back at #259 with a wallpost, but what should be an explanation is some completely incomprehensible PMspec garbage.

My elemental preference is NOT Holy - yes, it's provable, and no, you guys won't like what happens when I use it.

What can we infer from this? eclipse has a holy elemental role. What is holy? NOT WIND. So if there's a non-wind person pointing out what Rapier said regarding win condition color, as a scumslip, the logical conclusion is that it doesn't matter what your affinity is, if you're town, your win condition is green, full stop.

how am I supposed to 'get' this?

"MY preference is not Holy, ##Select Dark" then "I have a Holy role"

that's a contradiction, what does that prove?

'Holy is NOT WIND"

Well, that's obvious.

"If a Non-Wind person says your wincon should be green, and you think it means Archer (remember we had a sample role PM at round start), you're scum"

well... okay...? that's assuming an awful lot.

It's made worse by the fact clipsey continues with her 'scumslip' play on people further in the post, even on people who don't get it because they don't have a class in the first place, because it was revealed we have non-elemental players in the mix, which makes the whole scumslip thing even more flawed in the first place.

The worst part is that Eclipse then completely drops Rapier without so much as batting an eye, or reading him, then votes me over Bel, despite posting that

Beli's vote on me is beyond awful.

I have extremely mixed feelings on the Randa/Neko slot

Clipsey fails to even read my slot right, bringing up my one 'this is suspicious, why not vote the person instigating this scumslip mess (who didn't even explain it)' post and saying something vague about my other half without any quoting, linking, or explaining anything.

[Bluedoom]

lol if you read my post I addressed my reads on those playerslots too I just disagree with those reads and read them differently but that doesn't mean I don't have a read now does it?

Also I don't ever remember you in pulling off the early claim gambit as scum nor do I think you would pull it off so that's my answer.

W/e done arguing about this.

[MancerNecro]

Going to sleep soon. Reread tomorrow I promise. I am on leave tomorrow so I should be able to spare a little more time to the game (well I'm pretty much most of the game already anyway).

Was busier today cause I needed to clear some work for tomorrow's leave.

[MRDRHAWK]

man I'm hard-pressed to get any decent reads out of this game ugh mafia sucks

I wish certain players would post more

gonna have to read Marth's ISO and see what's up with him. not a huge fan of eclipse looking back since she's awfully stubborn about the Rapier thing and doesn't appear to have much else.

[MancerNecro]

lol if you read my post I addressed my reads on those playerslots too I just disagree with those reads and read them differently but that doesn't mean I don't have a read now does it?

Also I don't ever remember you in pulling off the early claim gambit as scum nor do I think you would pull it off so that's my answer.

W/e done arguing about this.

Those are just examples of reads that can be done that don't include interactions with me. I'm telling you the problem is that your scum reads are based ONLY off of interactions with me.

Your list post of town and null reads are not necessary and it seems like you only did that because kirsche and I pressed you for non-me content.

Can you address why you think your list post was even necessary to make at all?

Looks at Pokemon Adventures Mafia with my somewhat early (D2 or D3) Yellow claim.

What happens if I am scum, Bluedoom, your reads will all just fall off and disappear into nothing. I feel like you can put in more effort here.

I am 1/3 of the game but there's still another 2/3 of the game going on.

[Grace]

someone asked about lynching rules:

- Majority (half living players rounded down + 1) is required to lynch. No Majority results in a No Lynch the first time, and a universal loss the second. No Lynch may not be voted.

you must hammer to lynch

[Randa]

Honestly based on the last couple of post I'm more inclined to believe manger is town. I feel like very few scum argue against being consider obvi town. yes I know ive done it as scum before And I feel like Marty looks worse. Which I'll get into when I'm not in calc.

[Rapier]

I should probably read Rapier's earlier content (I kind of don't remember any of it at all, whoops), but his first post after a long time doesn't really make me feel any better about him. Like he spends the whole post defending himself and just this statement here ("I could be a townie who mistook my role color for my affiliative color.) bothers me because he's assuming that he's scum. Also on a personal level, I don't like how he's calling out people for being lazy when he hasn't done much since the beginning of the day himself.

What.

I'm just pointing out a possibility of which no one seemed to think about before lolsheeping clipsey and mounting a wagon. With the exception of Kirsche and IIRC Ellie. Also, it is legitimate to call people lazy when they sheeped clipsey without telling what exactly was scummy within my post.

I'm seeing an inherent flaw with this line of logic. Perhaps I'd be willing to buy it if you actually elaborated why they "kinda blow". I can kinda see where Refa's coming from however. Still, my stance on Rapier is still that his contradictory behaviour is still scummy, whilst the initial "scumslip" was not. I agree that the lack of a vote on him might have seemed like fence sitting, but I was legitimately unsure of how many votes he was on (counting is for losers, just like elements).

Your logic for finding me scum blows because you blame me for RVS stuff, and your vote on Poly also blows because you voted him for sheeping without explaining where his scum intent was. A lot of people sheeped clipsey, how is he different? Besides, it doesn't really matter if you chose Poly over me, your reasons are bad either way. It is also a tad contradictory that you defended me from Mancer and clipsey's "scumslip" and yet decided that I was a good candidate for a vote, based solely on RVS stuff.

The only contradiction I made was based on a typo (I seriously doubt someone wouldn't recognize that, no one is capable of saying that investigative and protective roles are useless) and a misunderstanding on Mancer's role (I was against voting for Knight because I don't find Neighbors important, but then I realized his role had two parts and decided to vote for him). Since I already explained myself, are you still going to cling to your "Rapier is scum because of his contradictions" read?

In Mystery Mafia Rapier was a town rolecop who scanend N0 and got a 'guilty' except he never outed anything until one phase before kingmaker. But by then the town align cop and JoaT rolecop had outed themselves so we ended up lynching him only to put ourselves in kingmaker, otherwise we were well on our way to lynching scum.

why don't i remember this kind of stuff

lol if you read my post I addressed my reads on those playerslots too I just disagree with those reads and read them differently but that doesn't mean I don't have a read now does it?

Also I don't ever remember you in pulling off the early claim gambit as scum nor do I think you would pull it off so that's my answer.

W/e done arguing about this.

Excuse me, but your reasons for finding Mancer obvtown are far too shallow. While I agree that he wouldn't risk such a gambit as scum and draw attention to himself just so we vote for Knight (especially because Prims said scum don't have elemental roles), it is a single action alone in a sea of posts of his. Is one action alone enough to make you declare him Not Guilty? He's been pretty jumpy overall and quick to find oddities and conclude that other people are scummy based on them. Being productive is a good thing, but being over the place and having a 5 pages long ISO on D1 is not really an indicative of protowness; if anything, it reminds me of waffling (I like waffles, so good). So, yes, elaborate on why Mancer is so obvtown for you.

[Rapier]

Yes, these are my only reads for now. .I'll be back in a few hours and hopefully do something productive! So hang in there and wait for the next episode.

Mancer has so much content that I am not even sure what to think of it. I can't read him more than I already did above. I like Kirsche for not being one to quickly rush into the clipsey wagon while everyone else did, backing up his position with sound logic. I'm still not sure what to think of Refa, Marth and Elie, I need to reread them. Randa and Neko aren't really active enough for me to establish a solid read on them. Something about clipsey seems strange to me, I need to ISO her as well. Shin is clinging to weak reads to opportunistically be lazy (I understand this bro), in other words Shin being Shin. Who is Quote?

[Shin]

Your logic for finding me scum blows because you blame me for RVS stuff, and your vote on Poly also blows because you voted him for sheeping without explaining where his scum intent was. A lot of people sheeped clipsey, how is he different? Besides, it doesn't really matter if you chose Poly over me, your reasons are bad either way. It is also a tad contradictory that you defended me from Mancer and clipsey's "scumslip" and yet decided that I was a good candidate for a vote, based solely on RVS stuff.

The only contradiction I made was based on a typo (I seriously doubt someone wouldn't recognize that, no one is capable of saying that investigative and protective roles are useless) and a misunderstanding on Mancer's role (I was against voting for Knight because I don't find Neighbors important, but then I realized his role had two parts and decided to vote for him). Since I already explained myself, are you still going to cling to your "Rapier is scum because of his contradictions" read?

BBM, Refa and Poly a lot of people do not make. BBM's got other content and Refa at least explained why he was sheeping. Poly did none of the sort. I'm allowed to think that individual things that someone's done are scummy or towny, just because I think one action isn't scummy, doesn't mean another you do can't be.

[MRDRHAWK]

Except I did explain my jumping onto the Rapier wagon earlier, Shin. I thought it was a different slip than Clipsey likely thought, so I voted him on that. I'm not voting him now because that didn't really end up being a slip, so... yeah. Not much else to say about that anymore.

[Shin]

Except I did explain my jumping onto the Rapier wagon earlier, Shin. I thought it was a different slip than Clipsey likely thought, so I voted him on that. I'm not voting him now because that didn't really end up being a slip, so... yeah. Not much else to say about that anymore.

I unvoted you because of that, I'm justifying my vote at the time.

[Shin]

And I just realised I closed my tab with a post about Randa/Neko... rage.

[Randa]

okay so i got some time so im gonna talk about what i meant when i said that i believe that the interactions with mancer make marth look bad. so marth has been pushing mancer as town since kirsche talked about it. his automatic defense was maybe meta? i really dont know what to call it, but saying "mancer wouldn't come back from a 1 year hiatus and claim neighbour as scum". well the problem is nobody had a problem with that aspect, we had a problem with the basis of his cases, which we found were graspy. in addition why are we using non-existant meta to clear people? like i feel thats a really bad idea.

now the second part is his insistence that mancer is obvi town when even mancer himself says thats not the case. i cant see a rational reason as to why town would be trying to push so hard in clearing somebody this early on into the game. scum on the other hand makes sense. it makes sense if we consider it as scum trying to buddy with town to try and clear themselves. i also have a couple of very convoluted conspiracy theories that could be going on with marth right now, but they are all really stupid and would just clutter the thread more.

[Randa]

shit i wasnt done with that... more to come in a bit

[Randa]

okay so now that ive had my say about the mancer stuff im going to touch on the rest of his game. quite frankly i think its been pretty bad. his reads seem really surface level. "oh i think kirsche is scum for OMGUS" "oh because randa had a gut read on me i went and read the slot, now i think its scum because neko it has about as much content as i do"(this is what i meant when i said hypocritical, seriously his post came about an hour after i asked for opinions on him and surprise, surprise he suddenly thinks my player is scum despite not indicating any suspicion in any earlier posts) then despite mentioning eli, bbm, rapier, shin, beli i feel like i dont know whether he thinks theyre scum or not. like he's trying to keep as many possible lynches available as he can.

i just think marth's play makeks more sense as scum than as town.

##unvote

##vote: marth

[Rapier]

BBM, Refa and Poly a lot of people do not make. BBM's got other content and Refa at least explained why he was sheeping. Poly did none of the sort. I'm allowed to think that individual things that someone's done are scummy or towny, just because I think one action isn't scummy, doesn't mean another you do can't be.

My point is that you defended me from two attackers, then decided that I was your best scumread judging from a bad RVS vote. Furthermore, sheeping is not an indicative of scumness, hence why I find your Poly vote essentially bad. It seems you changed your mind about Poly yet decided to keep your scumread on me based on misunderstandings which I already explained about, which is fine if you don't buy my reply, but I expect more content from now on (I know you were going to say something about RandaRex, don't worry, I'll leave your leg alone).

--

I'm currently reading Refa's ISO. My general thought about his content is that he had a few points against other players, such as and Shin, but he never bothered to make a case against someone until much later, prefering to tunnel vote me for a dozen of pages. He only switched his vote from me to Shin some time after I voted the latter. Why did he keep his vote on me for 12 pages when he had the opportunity to vote others and press them? His handwaving on other people's content and overall lack of scumhunt bother me, it seems like he is all too prone to sit on the easiest vote candidates and keep himself from looking deeper in the game's content.

He's got a town gutread on Marth even though he does not agree with his Kirsche vote, which was first criticized by BBM. This is a tad peculiar because the evidence says [to him] that Marth's vote was bad while Refa's own bias says that Marth is town, which makes it seem like he's buddying up with him. If one of them flips as scum, I'm fine with voting the other immediately on the next Day.

--

Regarding BBM, he was the only one who was too quick to vote me yet changed his vote to Marth when he saw it fit to pursue another case, which earns towncred with me. He was also the only one to justify his reasons for voting me at the time when Refa and Poly decided to quicksheep clipsey. His vote on Marth seems weird though because laziness is not an indicative of scum, nor is disagreeing with someone's points using questionable logic. At the time he thought I was the most scummy player, even after recognizing that it was possible for a town player to make the mistake that led clipsey to claim that I slipped. Overall, his content is decent and I've not against him for now.

--

I'll continue this after lunch.

[Zkirsche]

Marth I think you're misunderstanding the reason for my mancer vote, I didn't vote him because he voted me, I voted him because his cases suck. It just so happens one of those cases was on me. Unless you're willing to stand up for the legitimacy of that claim. Also I disagree with your eclipse meta as eclipse is the type to jump on what she perceives as a scumslip as any alignment for credit, doing so isn't really cryptic. I'm still happy with my vote as best case she's scum and worst case she's town who then is pressured into making and committing to a case instead of flip-flopping on about 10.

I'm kinda mad at Mancer mostly about that because earlier in the day he was advocating a class hammer himself so I don't see how that part is scummy from my end?

See it's pretty easy to do ;/ if you want an example of how in the fray eclipse plays then go read unicycle and about it's infamous "fuck tiger" which she was a close part of, this is tame compared to that.

"trying to find little oddities and passing them off as scummy" is what I'd consider being overly aggressive with my reads.

We have very different definitions of aggressive then.

Iunno what it is but I can't get any kind of read off of Rapier or Randa.

[MancerNecro]

Okay, I'm up and going to reread soon.

One thing I noticed is that Levity, Xinnidy and Belisaurius have very little posts, less than even 5 actual content posts in fact.

Out of those three, I don't like Belisaurius the most because he just waltzes in right in the middle of the day with a seemingly random vote on someone before disappearing when there has already been a lot of discussion happening. Even I've just skimmed the thread, I believe he can come up with something more solid and concrete than such a vote.

I like Xinnidy best because she actually did have one content post and a few more later on too but her lack of activity pings me off. I feel she could do more but did not. That and I saw her reading the thread but not post until she was prodded once.

Levity has content posts as well but quite a bit of fluff in her posts here and there.

Calling out Levity/Xinnidy as lurk scum with very little posts in general but with some content in their posts that would make ISOs on them look good.

Beli just looks like he doesn't care about the game at all.