Big NOCers - Game Over

[j00]

Forgot to mention that I'm no longer as sure about j00. I've never actually played a game where j00 was scum and had a lot of time to post, but it always seems like she's lurking when she's scum.

why isn't mafia easy ;_;

hey guys my role tells me to spampost

with BBM and Manix busy, now is my chance to take over as the top spammer!

##Vote: BBM

should mention that I wasn't entirely joking about this part

my style is usually to answer and analyze many posts at once for better context and flow, though I've had some hectic semesters the last year. This semester is even more busy actually but I'm managing my time better, using mafia as a drug, feeding myself with sedatives every couple of hours in a stressful life.

comments will come in next post but first, have a tier list of claims so far

_____________________________________________________________________________

- top tier

Prims (baby harp seal)

- this could lead to some interesting posts tier

me

BBM (looking forwards to the PRs if Prims' Touhou game is anything to go by)

- for what purpose tier

Conq (needs to be a wagon but not actually lynched)

- not appearing on tier lists

ninjaclipse

[j00]

@Conq- Yeah except j00's not saying that the cases are weak because they lack townie conviction, she's just saying the foundational arguments are weak. That happens with townie arguments too.

you usually attack flawed arguments though, I did already explain why scum often have weak cases, and Conq summed it up too.

It's a bit weird that bothered eclipse too, it's not like weak cases have actual intent in the same vein as claiming roles and doing reaction tests do. No one, regardless of alignment, sits down thinking "well now I'm going to write a weak case". A weak case is a case done wrong, not something neither town nor scum ever have an intention to do. Pushing them is pretty natural to try to find out if it's town messing up or scum trying to frame someone.

but eh, I'm probably more wary of both eclipse and Manix over you at this point. Your argument about me unvoting Vhaltz isn't a very good one since I draw more attention to myself this way, but I get that unvoting in general can seem suspicious after chasing a case for a long time.

I obviously disagree with eclipse since I unvoted Vhaltz at the same time she voted him. I don't particularly see the passiveness, he's been pretty much the same througout the game except regarding me and Kaoz, and his sudden change on Kaoz is attributed to meta. I don't like his insistence on meta, but at this point I think it's stubborn town and posted my reasons for that, do you have any thoughts on my arguments or do you think Vhaltz is scummy for insisting to use meta?

don't really like how she brushed off my suspicions on Manix and BBM by saying they were busy, you post indicates that you think their play has been weak but that you're automatically attributing it to business. Which might be the case, but it still doesn't mean it's not worth to push if something feels off. Do you disagree with my arguments on why I found them suspicious or did you just not think it was scummy?

next post on Manix

[Vhaltz]

No time, had to come back home to get lunch because I forgot I had no money left in my wallet, haven't catched up yet

Paper is like 10x scummy as anybody else, I'll have time to type it out in 5~ hours

Refa is ???, I just glazed over the recent pages and haven't seen any posts from him so I'm concerned that he's lurking it out and letting town slapfight amongst each other. What timezone is he in?

Wouldn't really lynch j00 if possible, pretty sure I don't want Manix lynch either.

Everybody else is either null or some degree of town.

Saving voteswitch for when I post wrt Paperblade but consider my vote on him atm.

[j00]

i voted refa for the passive-aggressive snips

the irony

[Prims]

Day 1.5 - Votals

j00 (2) - Strege, BigBangMeteor

SB (2) - Refa, Raymond

Vhaltz (2) - Paperblade, eclipse

BigBangMeteor (1) - j00

eclipse (1) - Balcerzak

Manix (1) - Conqueror

Paperblade (1) - Kaoz

Raymond (1) - SB

Refa (1) - Vhaltz

Not Voting (1): Manix

You have 12 hours and 40 minutes left in the day. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[j00]

I definitely won't be here for deadline, I've messed up my sleep schedule and am about to keel over already, no way I'll make it to 3 AM.

[Grace]

god i really don't want to have to keep putting stuff off but i cannot into thinking and reading right now, since i'm basically falling asleep. i tried doing some rereading earlier but nothing was standing out at all and it was like "really". then my brain promptly shut down

if this keeps up (since it's not an isolated case) i will probably get a sub to keep my playerslot more active, or something to that effect

[j00]

Manix, what bothered you about Refa's Balzerac comment? You never explained why calling someone out on fluff was a neutral claim.

In general your Refa case is all over the place, but you seem to have realised that too.

eh, Manix is playing pretty bad because of IRL issues but his apathy leaves the same impression as Kaoz. Bal too doesn't seem to care much. I'd like to hear his thoughts after rereads, but right now I'm liking eclipse less than him.

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

I'll be back later but won't stay all until deadline, willing to vote Manix too if that turns into a wagon but I'd rather he come with proper reads first.

[j00]

Paper: If you're just sheeping Conq, why are you still voting Vhaltz?

[Scarlet]

So like, not to be pushy or anything, but there's only like 11 hours left and not a single wagon is at more than 2 votes right now.

Get your shit together, guys.

I don't know if I'll be around for deadline myself, today's gonna be a busy day for me and the deadline is at like 3 AM my time, so I might just fall asleep before then.

[j00]

Do you have any further comments on any of the people that's been discussed lately? You've mostly got one-liners on anyone else but SB and Vhaltz.

Elaboration on eclipse, she's defending Manix a lot without many reasons for him being town, being busy and such is at most a null tell, and while I see that you're not convinced he's scum you're not giving compelling evidence for him town when defending him.

[Scarlet]

Do you have any further comments on any of the people that's been discussed lately? You've mostly got one-liners on anyone else but SB and Vhaltz.

I could elaborate on the CLIPSEY! and Paper reads if needed (not right now though, gotta go), but otherwise not really.

D1 has been dragging on for quite a bit; at this point a flip would really help.

[SB.]

Back and making a post now, we have 9ish hours left right?

[Elieson]

8 hours and 10 minutes

[eclipse]

Do you have any further comments on any of the people that's been discussed lately? You've mostly got one-liners on anyone else but SB and Vhaltz.

Elaboration on eclipse, she's defending Manix a lot without many reasons for him being town, being busy and such is at most a null tell, and while I see that you're not convinced he's scum you're not giving compelling evidence for him town when defending him.

I get the feeling that Manix is skim-reading, and is not explaining things in-depth because of it. Being busy is a null tell, and it feels like that fact is being ignored, which I don't agree with. Thus, I'm not convinced that he's scum on arguments alone.

[SB.]

Okay that's less time than I thought.

I think I'm just going to drop Raymond. I can't really find much wrong with his responses so I don't think it's worth pursuing him anymore.

Not really happy with Paper's content post. It looked ok on a skim this morning, but then when I rechecked it I don't like it. Bal suspicion is an easy one to make, and there are a lot of empty/unjustified comments like on Strege's mixup and a weird eclipse question that look like they're present to make it seem like there's more content there than there is. The way he talks about Vhaltz and I is kind of weird too imo. I'm pretty sure I've attacked more people than he has, but apparently he's more guilty than I am? Why is that? Also your "SB is better but he busses a lot" is kind of awkward. Do you think I'm scum bussing at this stage? Who do you think I'm bussing? I also don't see a mention of Refa at all, do you still think he's scummy or not?

I kind of want to hope for enough support for a Paper!wagon but I dunno if there's the time? Sorry Conq, but I don't think we're getting your power activated today.

I'm okay with a j00 wagon I guess. I don't mind her content on reaction tests truth be told, but her BBM vote feels like it's more harping on him not having much content when it's reasonable he'd be inactive, and her eclipse vote feels really weak to me also. It feels like j00 is attacking cases over the players, it read to me like eclipse was annoyed town who was tired of Vhaltz using meta for everything - is that much different to you j00?

Posting this while eclipse is hopefully still around to see if she'll wagon Paperblade with me? Got more stuff to say than this.

[eclipse]

We'd need something like 11 people total to pull off what Conq wants, and I think ending the day with a lynch is slightly more important (sorry Conq).

Gimme a bit to reread both Paper and you. I don't want to commit to a case that I half-remember.

[Vhaltz]

I'm here, reading now

Preemptive warning that I won't stay past 11 PM playing mafia from now on. Going to bed at 3:15 AM and waking up at 8:00 has given me a big headache at times throughout the day and I can't afford having the same happen tomorrow or any other day of this week really.

[eclipse]

I feel that Paper's case here can kind of apply to himself (and j00), as well. Though he's also busy/not in the best state of mind to play mafia, I get the feeling that he's following the game more closely than Manix, if he has time to take jabs at my content; thus I'd support his lynch over Manix.

As for j00, I haven't decided whether she's scum throwing things in the hopes that something takes off, or overeager town. Don't really feel like lynching SB right now, as I don't see anything in his content that screams scum. I'd like to be around when Vhaltz makes his next post, but I doubt this'll happen.

If I could lynch anyone right now, it would be Refa, and I dunno where Vhaltz would fit in. However, I doubt that I'm going to get the support that I'd like for that wagon, and Vhaltz's position is determined by his response. I wouldn't mind a vig shot on Kaoz, since his flip will give me a good associative read on Vhaltz.

Meh. This is so that a lynch happens.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

Vhaltz, I need to leave RIGHT NOW, and won't be back until after the deadline.

[Strege]

Phoneposting is poopy garbage.

Wondering if eclipse is still scumreading Refa, maybe with a short list of reasons if so. If not, who besides Vhaltz? I also don't understand how passivity relates to scumminess regarding Vhaltz. Minor scumread here for me.

Manix: 114 you defend yourself which is fine but say you don't like anyone's assumptions (usually insinuating they're scummy for it) and single out Paper. But like if several people react the same way isn't it safe to assume that a situation is just likely to provoke that reaction making it alignment neutral? In that context it looks like you're just propping up a read on Paper by him missing a question. nvm about the later part of that post. post 156: people have mentioned that fluff==scummy so pointing out a lack of connection doesn't work. your argument about refa's read on eclipse just hops around the fact that you think he's not considering new information, and you suggest he should have... what, have said his read didn't change?

more later. I fell behind on SB too, I just remembered. I'm not actually stoked about a manix lynch because I feel like we'll get more regular content and thus better reads later

[Strege]

cut by eclipse, obviously. will get to it later

[SB.]

Manix's slot is meh, I didn't like his RVS, but I can't blame the posts after that considering limited time and not being in the right headspace, so I'll give him another day.

I don't really like Vhaltz's response to j00 casing him. Just because something doesn't work (reaction tests gegtting towncred) doesn't mean that scum won't attempt something like it, her criticisms are valid and I don't feel like you really addressed them that well. I also find his mentions of me kind of strange too. His abuse of meta is eh, I feel like the amount he's using it is sort of abnormal. I'd prefer this to j00 but I'd rather full steam ahead with Paperblade at this rate.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

We can't really afford to delay consolidation for much longer. Refa got on Skype so he should be in here soon?

[Vhaltz]

I'm not supersonic at typing so my Paperblade case is going to take a little longer, I think what SB brought up applies but isn't the main reason why he's scummy

[Vhaltz]

Okay here we go

Paper’s votes have been weak* and I had been chalking it up to him probably following a method similar to Kaoz’s, but the reasons for his suspicion on me being based entirely on “too many suspects” reads odd to me, I’ve never seen that used as a tell before and it feels like it’s coming from a self-conscious scum mindset. The timing in bringing up the question about ED1 Manix/BBM feels like he wanted something to along with "too many suspects" to justify switching his vote since staying on Manix for any longer than he did may have raised eyebrows. If he actually found my suspicion on BBM/Manix scummy he could’ve asked about it several years ago, it’s essentially “why are you voting along with one of your scumreads” “because he could be bussing” all over again, just because I'm looking at both sides of a fight ED1 and think that both sides have done scummy things doesn't mean that I'm convinced that they're both going to be scum in the grand scheme of things. My big issue with this question is that I don’t get how it was supposed to go anywhere other than attempting to smear suspicion on me.

* Vote on Manix was over being overdefensive wrt the Conq role and mentioning that it might be detrimental for town. He kept it for a long while with “his response didn’t sway me” as his only followup.

* Vote on me was over suspecting many people and not updating my early Manix suspicion

Nothing else he has done is memorable or redeemable, he defended himself from SB’s case, made several empty side comments throughout the game and issued some token questioning in his last contentpost which is fluffy upon reread (specially wrt Strege)

On that same post, this other comment strikes me as opportunistic

One thing that bugs me about Manix on reread is that his votes aren't really because he finds people scummy, he's just "building wagons" until he jumps on Refa.

The Refa vote was on his first post after he came back. Paper has clearly been around enough to discern what things had happened when in the thread, somebody who was recently catching up and read all the thread in one sitting could’ve made the mistake, but much like his comment on my ED1 Manix/BBM suspicions this feels like it’s deliberately ignoring the context in which Manix did it just for the sake of keeping his day-long suspicion on him for deadline.

Overall it doesn’t feel like Paper is scumhunting at all, and while selectively accusing me of not following up on my early Manix read, his own followups on people not Manix/me are very vague, to the point where he could potentially switch his vote onto any of SB, Manix, j00, Refa or eclipse, all of which are/have been potential end of day wagons, and they could happen with minimal reasoning.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

Don't really want to lynch anybody that isn't Paper atm. I'd consolidate on Refa if it were absolutely necessary but at this point I don't have much conviction left in that case, specially in comparison to Paperblade.

I kind of skimmed a few walls in the last few pages to get this out asap so I'll get back to reading now.

[Vhaltz]

Also inclined to think j00 is telling the truth about her pseudo-PR in the form of spamposting. Prims is dumb and I have a similar thing that hasn't applied so far but should soon.