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Athena_57

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Posts posted by Athena_57

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Snike said:

    Or not because Athena showed up.

    From the top:

    My first line I mistyped; it's more something X does if X thinks Y is town; It implies a townread.

    The thing I am getting at is a first you appear to be ok with Bart (when you respond to refa page 6), but then you back off as soon as that's called (the post you accuse Satsuma of being omgusy). That is what I am pointing at.

    I don't think refa was being universally townread like Via was (and eclipse to a lesser degree). But then you already said you were afraid they were going to die. And eury doesn't fall into that category because you weren't townreading her. Ugh. I don't buy this but it's one of those things where it's feel over explanation. It's unfair to you but I can't really provide much of an explanation besides  saying I think it's faked because I've had to press you repeatedly for reasoning why.

    That's an actual read. By lumping me in with the other nulls you're semi-implying that my stuff is unremarkable despite my being probably the #1 player you've been responding to. This is probably nitpicky but still.

    You literally called me tunneling you the first post you had in response to my stuff; Did you not expect to be cased hard with a remark like that? You addressed this; I still disagree with tunnel stuff because I have been talking about the game outside this case. If we want to talk tunnel, I think Kirsche/Junko could be arguably that on either side (this isn't commenting on alignment or on merit of cases). 

    I read the 40 exchange differently and the point of contention IMO is the paranoia rather than the townreads. He's not asking you to suddenly doubt them he's asking you about the certainty of your reads; the fact that you aren't expressing uncertainty on some of them or like fringe paranoia is what concerns him is what I read it as.

    Okay, now I see what you mean. As for me explaining his reasoning, I'm not sure it implies a townread, as I think scum can push bad cases with good reasons (or good cases for that matter). Me seeing someone's town!POV doesn't necessarily imply I think it's their true!POV. That later line of me defending against the buddy-attack, that's because I absolutely hate people framing my reads/cases (intentionally or unintentionally), which is why I've gotten so mad as people interpreting my Zeus-interaction as anything else than nullreading him. I wanted to make clear I was not okay with Bart's reasoning and was nullreading him to prevent people reading back to assume Satsuma's assessment was correct.

    Question, would you have targeted Via or Eclipse with a QT in my shoes (so assuming my townreads)? It just feels so risky to me. When I'm coming out of day 1 one of the top wagons, I'm considering the possibility of me being lynched day 2. If I'm only leaving a single QT I want it to be available for most of the rest of the game, which is why I'm going for certainty here.

    Not town and not scum ==> null for me and I felt our interactions made it clear I wasn't okay with the way you're presenting your case or the stuff it's based on, so I didn't think it was necessary specifically mentioning why you were null.

    That's fair, I agree. (Both on you not tunneling and the other two tunneling, though even to them it's not completely fair)

    Fact remains, you saying I concede the point is untrue. Also, I did express doubt over Eclipse in my earlier posts today, where I mentioned her just sort of sheeping your case on me and either ignoring or not bothering to read my replies on stuff like yesterday's lynch priority.

     

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    I don't really like JB's earlier post tbh, if inactivity is your best defense then I don't even know what to say, except that scum!you would be perfectly fine with staying offline as long as the wagon your on keeps growing and nobody's questioning you. Than his Bibbon post comes along, I still like his questions to Bibbon tbh, and then he ends with:

    1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

    would mostly like some responses to my earlier post wrt bibbon, I feel better about her than I did D1 but not clear yet.

    Where did that come from? You keep asking questions and accusing her, but you feel the need to leave yourself a way out without explaining what makes you feel better? Getting really bad vibes from that line tbh.

    50 minutes ago, Snike said:

    You were explaining bart's thought process and disagreeing with it, which is something that tends to happen as town. The next post I highlight has you backing away from him. That is backpedaling

    The point was you got called on Bartozio's support and get defensive/distance yourself from him; This is also the OMGUS post that I cased page 24 and I think it is a noticeable shift away/backpedal. The quotes are there for the game to judge, however.

    This isn't a misrep IMO.

    You later townread weapons again in this post; why is the network not on him?

    Why am I unmentioned? You call my stuff overblown and misrepped but then leave me as unnamed on list. ? ? ?

    I don't think we should necessarily out tarots; It was a remark I made after noticing them in the first place + I agree that it's probably not friendly.

    ;/

    40)

    Refa and Athena back and forth; I feel like this reflects badly on athena bc he's more or less conceding the point/being amiable; which scum sometimes does to defuse an argument.

    Quote 1 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well
    Quote 2 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well

    I cannot see why you think this is backpedaling at all, which is why I'm calling this a misrep or a really gross misunderstanding. I also don't see how I'm more backing away from him in the latter post than the former.

    The network wasn't on weapons for a few reasons. First and foremost, I think Refa is a more active player and thus more likely to use a QT well. Yes, he had been less active day 1, but I felt improvement the last hours and the EIMM game he was in was about to end, which led me to conclude his activity would increase. Secondly, when I'm making a decision such as that I feel I should be trying to make up for my own blind spots by not only choosing someone I personally townread, but someone who's being townread universally, like a "wisdom of the crowds"-thing. That also improves the chance of the other connected person opening up to him.

    You are unmentioned because you're null. What bothers me about you is, like you said, the nitpicking and overblowing of small things in my play. I am not certain however, whether you're scum trying to frame me and desperately searching my posts for things to do it with or a townie tunneling super hard under the assumption they found scum.
    I could see it being both, which is why you're a member of the null pile, albeit a notable one.

    I'm not conceding the point, I just feel the argument is over. He thinks that because not all of my townreads can be correct, I should start null/scum-reading one of them and I think that's BS as long as I don't know which one of them it is. Not much more to be said.

     

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Snike said:

    I am still rereading but I had to stop because I noticed something: His night action doesn't strike me as consistent. Why would he network you when his big townreads were Via eclipse at the end of D1? Sure eclipse might've later went down but at the same time he didn't mention you after he was pressed repeatedly for reads list. 21-27 Are context for that

    I didn't target Eclipse because she was likely to go down, perhaps even that night. Same with Via, both were universally townread and thus risky to connect in my eyes. Refa on the other hand was a little less "in the spotlight" so to speak.

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Refa said:

    No, it's more like...it seems unnatural to me.  You don't feel the least bit suspicious or paranoid about any of them?  It reads as scum to me because you lack that healthy paranoia AND that you've been going after very non controversial targets the whole game.

    I already mentioned that Shinori/ZKirsche/Eclipse are the ones I'd most expect to be scum, even though I'm not scumreading them.

    I'm not paranoid about one in particular, no. Like, some of them have this "rough" side to them, like Eclipse ignoring my respons or your flip-floppiness, but none of them are bad enough to warrant a null/scumread. A slight townread still belongs in leaning town in my eyes.

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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    Posted

    29 minutes ago, Refa said:

    TBH, I just saw Athena's lynch priority and he has all of the hard to lynch people as Leaning Town/Strong Town which is I dunno...I'm just thinking, there's no way that all of these people are actually town.

    I mean, they're hard to lynch for a reason? Like, I know there's a good chance 1 or 2 of them are scum, but I'm not going to omit a random one of them from my townreads because I'm presumably wrong about one of them...

    I take it you are scumreading one of them though, care to tell me who?

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    Oh yeah, have some random bit of rolespec too:

    This is just me spitballing, but considering Via's a character riddler, is it safe to assume there's a tarot riddler out there? In my eyes, it would make sense for one of these two to be scum, the other town, that could make for some interesting dynamics from a design perspective with to who do we give info if they both claim?

    Personally, I'm townreading Via and I'm not alone on this, which would leave our tarot riddler being scum. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    Okay, I'm going to start by attempting to clarify my role a bit more.

    The players I and my fellow connector connect get this connection indefinitely (==> as long as they live)
    I can select another (or the same) person each night, creating an additional QT.

    I did indeed select Refa as my target, but was redirected towards nightmare.

    12 hours ago, Shinori said:

    What about the fact that Athena voted Bart > himself?  Or did he have an actual case on Bart before that?  I don't quite remember him talking too much about Bart but I easily could have missed it.

    What's the difference between him not voting Marth over himself while voting Bart > Himself?

    My thoughts on Bart around mid-day 1 were "Kind of weird, but not enough content to judge", then his late day 1 posts I felt were mediocre. I think this makes it clear why I went for him when choosing between the wagons.

    11 hours ago, Snike said:

    In addition to this, he outright admitted the quote mine in the exchange at the end of day + was pretty clearly ignoring posts. It was like trying to pull a rotten tooth.

    I wasn't ignoring posts, I missed a single one. What was happening there is that around phase end it was midnight, I had an exam the following morning which I hadn't prepared well enough for and I was on the brink of being lynched, which meant I was kind of stressing out. I apologize for missing that post, but you're blowing it out of proportion.

    11 hours ago, Refa said:

    If Athena didn't have a case on Bart then the discrepancy is strange.  @athena_57 Why did you refuse to vote Marth in a "not me over me" but voted Bartozio in a similar fashion?

    When I didn't want to vote Marth it wasn't 30 minutes before deadline. There was still plenty of time for Bartozio to come back and do something which would solidify my read. Marth was null and I didn't think it was necessary to join a wagon at that point. When I voted Bart, it was less than an hour before deadline and his wagon had like 4 votes. It was going to come down to me/Marth/Bart and of those I obviously went for Bart.

    10 hours ago, Snike said:

    OK, so, starting from page 6, above is athena explaining or trying to explain bart's vote on satsuma

    Page 7, a little backpedal;

     

    That's a bit of a misrep. First I say "I myself do not think this is a problem, but am more bothered by the aforementioned filler posts", then I say "I didn't agree w/ his reasoning, only his conclusion". How is that backpedaling?

    10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

    So I'm town. My character is Rapier. I'm not going to tell you my role yet, just that I know @Zkirsche did some kind of night action last night. Care to explain?

    Not going to go into how bad (note: bad, not scummy) this is, others have done that, but I'm confused about something else. You don't know who he visited? That's weird af, you just got a message "Hey, Kirsche used a night action."?

    10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

    Elie used a night action. 

    My role heavily implies that there are a few roles in this game without night actions. Either that or it's useless. In which case there's no reason for me not to claim, I'm not a threat to the scum after all.

    I'm assuming your role lets you select a bunch of people (2/3 I'd say) and check who of them did something? In that case, I'd keep that info silent if I were you. It's useful info in that it pinpoints you towards either scum or powerful roles, but I wouldn't make it public, unless it's to support a case, as that helps scum more than town I feel.

     

    10 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

    BTW Weapons is acting scummy. But I'm probably the last one to notice that.

    I wouldn't classify it as scummy at all tbh. I think it's weird enough to classify as town.

     

    5 hours ago, eclipse said:

    ##Vote: athena_57

    So, back to this post.  When you don't understand the cases on someone, it implies that you aren't scumreading them.  And yet somehow this was more deserving of a lynch than zeus, who would've given an extremely strong associative read on Bibbon/you/me?

    I am extremely bothered by this post. I have already responded to this previously, saying Marth and Zeus were both null, but I wanted Zeus vigged, not hanged.

    And most importantly I disagree a Zeus lynch would have provided associative reads on the 3 of us, let alone extremely strong ones. I do not see how him flipping either town or scum leaves any of us looking better or worse.

    4 hours ago, Junk said:

    Athena at worst calls Zeus' posts bad and explicitly states that he found Zeus null (before he came to the concslusion that Zeus was townie). It just feels like he's trying to twist athena's words into something they aren't.  

    Another  scummy thing I noticed with athena is that his vote switch from Satsuma to Nightmare (page 21) seems unnatural. Athena's vote according to Athena is because Satsuma wasn't providing reads (or I guess definitive opinions would be better) yet athena quotes a post from Satsuma where he does the exact same thing where he says some stuff but isn't able come to a definite conclusion yet this time Athena likes it?

    Also says he doesn't like the marth wagon but I'm 99% sure somewhere that he said that he found Marth's entrance to be "mediocre" which was what the cases on Marth were about so that also makes no sense. This makes his bartozio vote look much worse IMO because he later prioritizes bartozio over marth over a disappointing post from bart when we're never given the reason why he doesn't like the marth wagon (when he seemingly agreed with the marth cases before).

     

    Where did I come to the conclusion Zeus was townie? I'm pretty sure I didn't. I mean, it's a nice change of pace from people interpreting my null as scum, but still.

    I think you're forgetting here Snike and Satsuma are the same slot and the main reason for the swap was Snike.

    His entrance was mediocre, but not bad enough to warrant him being a prime lynch candidate. I also thought the case was based on his Junko vote, not his opening. I did not agree with the Marth case.

    3 hours ago, Refa said:

    Also yeah, that's actually a good point on Athena.  Would vote there now.  I know he said that Zeus was null to him, but those interactions still bother me.  Don't really remember anything else he did before, and it feels like he's less of a presence today (not scummy, but makes it hard to keep my read updated).

     

    Phase start was at midnight for me, so this entire phase has been night for me until I started catching up. Hence why I have been less of a presence.

    Read update time:

    Town: Via, Walrein, Refa

    Most confident in Via, followed by Refa.

    Leaning town: Weapons (too weird for scum), Shinori, Kirsche, BBM, Eclipse (moved down from pure townread because their stuff on me feels like they didn't bother reading my response)

    Null: Unmentioned people

    Leaning scum: Mack (because of nightmare's stuff mostly, curious to see how this develops)

    Scum: Jaybee (see below

    I wasn't even aware of how bad his early content was tbh (in fact I forgot about it) until I saw BBM's case. I was bothered by Nightmare's "distanced summaries", but this is even worse.
    What I'm adding to this is that of all the Bartozio votes, his concerns me the most. All of the votes from nightmare onwards I'll classify as consolidation votes and am thus not bothered by, and all the other votes before mine have been made by people I townread.


    I don't think the Bart wagon was primarily scumdriven, but obviously there was some scum in the early votes and none of the others make sense as scum imo. It kind of feels like JB placed a random vote on Bart, then saw that turn into a wagon and felt "huh, that works, let's leave it here". Like, he's obviously scumreading Bibbon big time, makes a post attacking her but doesn't swap? Feels like he just wanted to keep the Bart wagon intact tbh.

    ##Vote: Jaybee

    However, speaking of that JB post attacking Bibbon, did Bibbon ever reply? I like her stuff from today, but some of JB's questions are good questions. Did I miss the reply?

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

    Wow, just noticed a gross misread when I was getting ready to pre-submit my night action. (What can I say? I'm an optimistic guy)

    I don't connect someone for the night, I connect them for as long as they live, my bad.

    Actually wait, the wording is kind of off, I'm pretty sure my correction is correct, but I'll have to double-check. Sorry about this vagueness. It specifies them as talking as long as they live, but doesn't mention being a one-shot action, so I'm not sure whether I can change my target. I think so though?

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

    in Mafia

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

    Oh, hold up. That mechanic's not something I'm used to as far as X votes being required for anyone at all to be lynched. I'm using the time I have to check those on the one-vote wagons and see how likely it is there's scum on a vanity wagon somewhere. I'd still support an Athena/Bartozio lynch today, so if there's an issue with like seven votes on Bartozio I'll switch. I have to go in ten minutes though.

    Phase ends in 17 minutes. There are 5 on me, 6 on Bart, so I suggest you vote one of us before leaving.

    We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Snike said:

    god this forum software is trash

    @athena_57 you still have my response post + the kirsche request to respond to. Do you think bart or marth's claims are more suspect? Give out some final reads maybe?

    Er, kind of missed it contained questions, my bad.

    2 hours ago, Snike said:

    -So then why not let the other members of the thread do that instead? I understand you want him to contribute but what you did was essentially pad the thread.

    If we're talking defense you're doing the same thing here; why should I give you credit?

    I mean people did comment about satsuma, and no one was biting, so moving the vote would be an ok play there to add more pressure. What I was more getting at is why didn't you say more on your change of opinion?

    Why is it ok when zeus doesn't content, later in the game, but not ok when satsuma doesn't within the first 5-6 pages?

    - ;/ So why say anything? I'm going to disagree with @eclipse here because I think that is suspect bc it's a lowkey flame and then no follow-up to apologise or update a read once OP JB delivered.

     

    Bit of a weird question. Why let others, e.g. why not do it myself?

    Because at least in the beginning it was just me pressuring him, it only started going two ways later (from that point on you're right)

    Not sure what line this is referring to exactly, could you point me towards it?

    I don't like it with either of them, but in Zeus's case it's what I expect from him. In a vacuum I'd say it's scummy, but knowing Zeus it's NAI. Also, whilst my case was started about lack of content, it got picked up again because I felt their later posts were bad.

    I said something because it was an impulsive "joke", I didn't think about it. I didn't update a read because there wasn't one. I didn't apologise because I'm kind of a douche and/or forgot about it. (At first at least, and it felt weird to apologise a bunch of pages later).

    As for Kirsche, I mostly agree with him, it is indeed weird the way Junk is "hogging" his vote. I don't have too much to add, so mostly sheeping here, but Junko is amongst my slight scumreads.

    I already said I felt Marth's claim made me feel more town about him.
    Bart's claim I'm not sure on, I don't think it differs too much from ascetic alignment-wise (e.g. NAI)

    Final reads are the same as my last post, with only minor shifts due to Bart's weird voteswap. Haven't read Nightmare's post yet though, so that could change things.

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