Information topic (spoilers)

[Jedor]

it's unfortunately a player defined challenge to stay away from the wifi store.

fuck game developers, testing their player's willpower to make the game harder

they should spoon feed perfectly identical difficulty to everyone

[fatgamecat]

fuck game developers, testing their player's willpower to make the game harder

they should spoon feed perfectly identical difficulty to everyone

It's the developers choice to make a games difficulty mitigatable or not. 'Identical difficulty' or 'identical rules' form the basis of organized competition, such as scoring systems. I suggest you read my SRPG 101 article to learn a bit about the topic.

I highly doubt the devs factor emulators into their game design choices. And who knows, someday the emulators could emulate wifi.. they just don't do so right now.

[Jedor]

You're talking about identical difficulty on a game whose core element is random numbers.

[General Spoon]

I highly doubt the devs factor emulators into their game design choices.

I'm going to call bullshit, since they don't want their games emulated.

[Paperblade]

Are you forgetting the wifi features, paperblade? Being able to purchase multiple rescue staffs online, for example, does cut into the games difficulty significantly even on the final chapter. You yourself admitted you'd have an easier time of it if you didn't 'mismanage your rescue staves'. Oh and they are already offering maturity drops online for free to make the game easier as well. Don't pretend Lunatic mode has some kind of airtight, unmitigatable difficulty.. it's unfortunately a player defined challenge to stay away from the wifi store.

I wasn't even aware that Rescue was offered in the online store since I don't pay attention to that sort of thing (My Wifi is WPA encrypted, so I can't even access it from my home).

So yes, I did forget it, although I would argue that while it does make things easier, you don't exactly have the money to buy a ton of them. For example, it wouldn't have made Chapters 16-21 notably easier, and probably the same could be said for other chapters. I'm not so sure about the Maturity drops though. How many do we get, etc. That seems like it could be a problem, but I'm just not sure if giving a unit +10 to all growths is enough to trivialize the game.

[fatgamecat]

I wasn't even aware that Rescue was offered in the online store since I don't pay attention to that sort of thing (My Wifi is WPA encrypted, so I can't even access it from my home).

So yes, I did forget it, although I would argue that while it does make things easier, you don't exactly have the money to buy a ton of them. For example, it wouldn't have made Chapters 16-21 notably easier, and probably the same could be said for other chapters. I'm not so sure about the Maturity drops though. How many do we get, etc. That seems like it could be a problem, but I'm just not sure if giving a unit +10 to all growths is enough to trivialize the game.

The rescue staff costs 1500G on the online store. That's peanuts for how good it is. Full online store list here. I believe they are giving away one maturity drop. And I don't doubt they will keep offering free stuff as time goes on to make the game progressively easier. To Nintendo's credit, Lunatic mode does seem to be balanced around not having wifi access, and any super elite hardcore gamers will not bother with it, so the games difficulty isn't totally sullied because of it.

I'm on ch 16 right now and I can think of one way a rescue charge would help - slaying those thieves then rescuing out of hero range. Rescue staves open a whole world of reckless behavior that would get your unit instantly killed otherwise.

Edited August 1, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Superbus]

fuck game developers, testing their player's willpower to make the game harder

they should spoon feed perfectly identical difficulty to everyone

Why yes, they should! Really, they should!

I'm thirty years old. I write about and play videogames professionally. And yet, I can't be arsed into beating my head against a wall with a game that might actively punish me for making a mistake (actively punish meaning "I have to restart hours worth of work"). That's not a challenge, that's like a trick question where getting the wrong answer is a wasted day for people that don't have days to waste. I don't, and again, I write about videogames for a living. It doesn't get much more "hardcore" than that.

While it's nice that a few guys here have, in two weeks, mastered a game - via ROM or otherwise - in a foreign language enough to be able to talk and argue about that game's minute details, you have to understand and accept that you are the vast minority. I mean, VAST. You're dealing with a market where people are paying companies like Aksys (Record of Agarest War), Namco (any current-gen JRPG that's come over like Tales of Vesperia) and Electronic Arts (any sports game) money for codes that let them eliminate grinding. Like it or not - and I don't - that's the market. Despite all that, we have a game here that has eight different difficulty variants that let any kind of player get into the game, and we're bitching because THEY GAVE US A WIFI SHOP, which MIGHT make it harder for people who aren't quite masochists. How DARE they! Why, we should make Lunatic level the default level, and if you beat the game on less than Lunatic, the DS should have an appendage that punches you in the face.

I'm not going to apologize for the fact that I think game design, for the most part, has changed for the better.

(Since we're talking about the WiFi store, I have a somewhat off-topic question, since I don't have wireless at home and dislike Starbucks: does the WiFi store go on the same style of schedule that SD's did? Is it still an issue to get an Elysian Whip in this game like there was before?)

[Icon of Sin]

(Since we're talking about the WiFi store, I have a somewhat off-topic question, since I don't have wireless at home and dislike Starbucks: does the WiFi store go on the same style of schedule that SD's did? Is it still an issue to get an Elysian Whip in this game like there was before?)

There are 3 in game. One in the desert in Chapter 11, northwest of the tower in a 2x2 square. Then there's one in a chest in chapter 16, and finally only one in the chapter 18 Secret Shop.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Medeus

[Inui]

lol, I kinda missed seeing Superbus post stuff @ n00bs :P

We probably make up about 0.5% of the FE playing population, if that. Most people aren't this hardcore at all. Oh well.

[dondon151]

I write about and play videogames professionally. And yet, I can't be arsed into beating my head against a wall with a game that might actively punish me for making a mistake (actively punish meaning "I have to restart hours worth of work"). That's not a challenge, that's like a trick question where getting the wrong answer is a wasted day for people that don't have days to waste. I don't, and again, I write about videogames for a living. It doesn't get much more "hardcore" than that.

I guess I must be more "hardcore" than you are, because I'm perfectly fine with spending 3 hours working on a chapter creating the most reliable efficient strategy applicable for the greatest number of players out there. And I don't even write about video games! But you know what, I will defer all judgment of what we should like and shouldn't like in video games to our elder, O Great Superbus.

How DARE they! Why, we should make Lunatic level the default level, and if you beat the game on less than Lunatic, the DS should have an appendage that punches you in the face.

I'm sure at this point that you're putting words into our mouths. Not one person here has insinuated that H3 should be the default level, nor have any of us stated that we look down upon other players playing lower difficulties for their enjoyment.

lol, I kinda missed seeing Superbus post stuff @ n00bs :P

Yeah, I kinda missed Superbus fling around his "creative hyperbole." It's incredibly fun to see how badly he can misrepresent a point of view.

Edited August 1, 2010 by dondon151

[Superbus]

I guess I must be more "hardcore" than you are, because I'm perfectly fine with spending 3 hours working on a chapter creating the most reliable efficient strategy applicable for the greatest number of players out there. And I don't even write about video games! But you know what, I will defer all judgment of what we should like and shouldn't like in video games to our elder, O Great Superbus.

That's beautiful. Meanwhile, while you're spending three hours on a map doing strategy after strategy after strategy, there's hundreds of other games out there that I have to play, either for work or just to play them.

If that's your thing, yay you. But to expect to be specifically catered to when people like you and others here (quick poll: how many actually imported, and didn't just download the ROM?) are not only in the minority, but likely aren't paying customers... that's foolish.

[fatgamecat]

and we're bitching because THEY GAVE US A WIFI SHOP, which MIGHT make it harder for people who aren't quite masochists. How DARE they! Why, we should make Lunatic level the default level, and if you beat the game on less than Lunatic, the DS should have an appendage that punches you in the face.

Don't you mean make it easier? Your strawman ranting is amusing, but worthless - maybe you should be a clown or comedian and not a journalist. Nobody was judging whether the wifi features are good or bad, just that it makes the game easier. Nobody is asking to be 'catered to', only pointing out facts about the games difficulty, while you set up strawmen and scream to yourself with your caps lock held down.

That you write about video games 'for a living', is not an indicator of any type of skill or expertise that would allow you to give a qualified opinion about a game, especially from a skill, mechanics, and game design perspective. Given what you've written in this thread, it's likely your reviews are about as useful as any other unskilled player who is not qualified to write a competent analysis of a game. If there were any sanity in the games journalism industry, reviews would be delegated to experts by genre, instead of throwing games at unskilled journalists at random with predictably awful results.

Edited August 1, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Eltoshen]

lol the average person isn't going to spend three hours trying to develop a strategy to beat one chapter in a game.

nintendo's not going to change a game just because you wish to do something that hardly anybody cares to do. is it that hard to understand or do you just need a place to vent and be butthurt over the fact that nintendo would rather cater to the general public than you?

and if you think wifi makes the game easier, don't use it and stop complaining.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Eltoshen

[fatgamecat]

and if you think wifi makes the game easier, don't use it and stop complaining.

Please point out where anyone was complaining. Also look up 'strawman argument'.

Claiming 'just don't use something' doesn't magically restore the difficulty of a game. If the developers allow it, players are going to use it.

[Eltoshen]

then let them. what's the big deal. how does that affect your playing at all?

and this is a prime example of complaint.

Claiming 'just don't use something' doesn't magically restore the difficulty of a game. If the developers allow it, players are going to use it.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Eltoshen

[grandjackal]

I'm going to try and clear some air without being insulting.

1. I've yet to see anyone bitch about the difficulty settings. Hell, for us "hardcore" people, we are not even reletively upset about Casual Mode. I think we can agree that giving this game more access to other players while still tossing the hardcore fans stuff like Lunatic Mode is a pretty awesome way of having a cake and eating it.

2. People are bitching about the wi-fi shop? For real? Most of these people are playing on an emulator, how would they even have access to the damn thing? Even if they did, I don't see the problem. Another Rescue or Again Staff sounds like stuff that would make the game easier, but keep in mind that the enemies in this game have stats high enough that you could end up losing simply by being screwed on the levels, something very luck oriented (Which is bad game design, UNLESS levels were on a fixed scale). If it helps me cut through that sort of bullshit, so be it.

Before any "non paying customer" stuff is thrown my way, I will be importing. Emulating simply doesn't sit right with me, and even if I did my computer is to big a piece of shit to run most things.

3. I can see you're a busy guy who has to whip through many games for the sake of reviewing. However, don't you find yourself in a unique position? Other people got work too, but at the end of the day they don't have to whip through several games at the end of the day. Considering how fast the game plays now, along with save points and suspending chapters, I would think only someone in your position would have problems with how long the game is.

Bleh...Perhaps I should have stayed out of this. But I just feel bitching has been at a minimum for this one.

[bottlegnomes]

If there were any sanity in the games journalism industry, reviews would be delegated to experts by genre, instead of throwing games at unskilled journalists at random with predictably awful results.

That's a terrible idea. Reviews are supposed to say how the game appeals to the average person. Furthermore, just because you are an expert on a genre doesn't mean you can write a review worth shit.

If anything a review by an expert on the genre would be more biased than someone who has no experience with the genre because they would nitpick more or be more inclined to like the game because they most likely like the genre.

[Inui]

Unless we're talking about Baby Normal Mode, unless My Unit is an Armor Knight, I'm placing some doubt on hitting Level 10 for a My Unit. Like I said; I think I reached Level 7. :/

I'm in Prologue 8 atm and My Unit is already level 10, lmao.

Don't you mean make it easier? Your strawman ranting is amusing, but worthless - maybe you should be a clown or comedian and not a journalist. Nobody was judging whether the wifi features are good or bad, just that it makes the game easier. Nobody is asking to be 'catered to', only pointing out facts about the games difficulty, while you set up strawmen and scream to yourself with your caps lock held down.

That you write about video games 'for a living', is not an indicator of any type of skill or expertise that would allow you to give a qualified opinion about a game, especially from a skill, mechanics, and game design perspective. Given what you've written in this thread, it's likely your reviews are about as useful as any other unskilled player who is not qualified to write a competent analysis of a game. If there were any sanity in the games journalism industry, reviews would be delegated to experts by genre, instead of throwing games at unskilled journalists at random with predictably awful results.

Superbus is an FE expert. He's been playing since you were a toddler or in diapers, probably. >_>;

He's not an idiot, lol.

[eclipse]

Claiming 'just don't use something' doesn't magically restore the difficulty of a game. If the developers allow it, players are going to use it.

If you think it makes things easier, don't use it. If others don't want to give themselves ulcers over a damn game, then let them use it, and you can keep your moral "no Wi-fi shop" high horse. It's optional for a reason!

[NinjaMonkey]

2. People are bitching about the wi-fi shop? For real? Most of these people are playing on an emulator, how would they even have access to the damn thing? Even if they did, I don't see the problem. Another Rescue or Again Staff sounds like stuff that would make the game easier, but keep in mind that the enemies in this game have stats high enough that you could end up losing simply by being screwed on the levels, something very luck oriented (Which is bad game design, UNLESS levels were on a fixed scale). If it helps me cut through that sort of bullshit, so be it.

Didn't SD have an online shop though? So I don't get why people are bitching about this game having one...

[Celice]

I am quite glad to see that the FE fandom minority has progressed farther than just sad people arguing for self-relevent reasons, into extreme pricks, for the same reason.

Whatever the fuck got into this microculture, you've played with it well.

I'm in Prologue 8 atm and My Unit is already level 10, lmao.

My Unit is fucking insane to level up, like leveling Ike on FE9. You can use them for basically all the maps on the lower difficulties, thus ripping a shit-ton of experience into their laps. And the higher difficulties too, depending on the class you choose.

[Colonel M]

I'm in Prologue 8 atm and My Unit is already level 10, lmao.

Now tell me your turncounts and levels for your units... Though I admit Cav is easier to use in Prologue than Fighter is.

[Sploosh]

My Unit was only level 8...

IMO he could've made it even higher. Luke and Shiida are the only ones worth level ups in Prologue...Maybe giving Draug, Marth, and Merric 1 each but there's plenty to go around.

[dondon151]

lol the average person isn't going to spend three hours trying to develop a strategy to beat one chapter in a game.

That wasn't the point at all. Superbus claimed that even "hardcore" FE players would not do that (citing himself as one), which I've shown to be demonstrably false.

I am quite glad to see that the FE fandom minority has progressed farther than just sad people arguing for self-relevent reasons, into extreme pricks, for the same reason.

Whatever the fuck got into this microculture, you've played with it well.

I suppose once any of us composes a serious post of more than 300 characters in length, or raises a dissenting opinion, then you can go ahead and sit on your throne looking down upon us "sad people."

Edited August 1, 2010 by dondon151

[fatgamecat]

If you think it makes things easier, don't use it. If others don't want to give themselves ulcers over a damn game, then let them use it, and you can keep your moral "no Wi-fi shop" high horse. It's optional for a reason!

It's an important distinction to make between a player defined challenge and a developer defined challenge. Again I'd suggest reading my SRPG 101 article if you don't know what I'm talking about regarding basic game design terms. Stating 'just don't use X' is missing the point entirely.

And if you think Lunatic mode will give you ulcers, buying extra rescue staves in the online store isn't going to help you much. It does make things easier, but it thankfully doesn't break the game, just lets you get away with more reckless behavior or simpler strategies.

Edited August 1, 2010 by mjemirzian