link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[General Horace]

Yeah, i'm not planning on hosting anything till after the tournament.

If your game is still hostless by then, i'll host it, but hopefully you have one by then.

Edited July 28, 2015 by General Horace

[ZemZem]

Let's wait until after the tournament. The hosts are all busy with it.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Alright Minimod, we're in the discussion thread.

How about Gen 2 with no first gen? That solves the robin issue. We still might limit it to one child of the avatar though, since otherwise both children would be used. Parents should obviously be revealed, hair color would tell you that anyway.

[ZemZem]

I have no problems with that.

As said before, Severa's a terror.

[General Horace]

the haircolour wouldn't reveal it (unless we found portraits of all of them with every hair colour, since we just have the default ones) but it's easy to list.

I'm not as interested in the gen2 meta because it's pretty much gen 1 with half a limit breaker and more skills. Everyone just gets more vengeance, luna, and all the best skills, and teams become less varied (I think anyway).

Some units like Yen'fay are decent in gen1 because of thier fantastic mods despite pretty average skills, units like that don't exist in gen2 because everyone has access to nearly every skill. The units might be different, stats might vary by 1-2 points, but most of the kids would have similar skills I feel.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Okay, hypothetically, in an actual link arena video game, hair color would reveal it. That's probably a good point, honestly, I think the idea becomes to break it as much as possible more than anything.

[ZemZem]

Cordelia really is fantastic.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I mean, in terms of being characters I really don't like either of them, but as units they're pretty sweet.

[Ema Skye]

I'm wondering what people would think of a Robin ban. And for Gen 2, this would include Robin as a parent, also banning Morgan. But since Morgan is already a better Robin, this is expected.

Robin is far and away the best unit in the FE13 Link Arena. I think it speaks volumes that Robin is on every team since FE13 LA's inception. Even right now as people are, as Espinosa calls them, gimmick Robin builds, these gimmick builds attest to the versatility that Robin brings to the game. Robin is the best Sorcerer, best Assassin, best General, best Berserker, and so on (you get the idea). Robin's, literally, unparalleled versatility means the unit has zero opportunity cost. This is why no one has created a Robin-less team. Think about it: we haven't even figured out the best Robin set (and I don't think we ever will for a while considering how much this unit can do), and Robin is already the best unit in the game by a significant margin.

On the battlefield though, Robin isn't what you'd expect from a banworthy unit. It's not like his actual combat is leagues above the rest; it's pretty comparable for the most part, aside from some unique combinations. Robin is beaten similarly to how you'd beat other characters of Robin's class. It's also questionable if Robin's versatility actually hinders team building, despite being the only unit (one of three in Gen 2) that has no reason not to be used.

Regarding Gen 2 specifically, I think something needs to be done with Robin has a parent. There's still units I'd rather use Robin instead of in Gen 2 (Cynthia and Nah come to mind right away), and Robin's kids are literally straight upgrades on vanilla Robin. I also really don't like the idea of having three team slots (Robin + 2 kids) that you have no reason not to use due to the lack of an opportunity cost.

[Jedi]

I'm wondering what people would think of a Robin ban. And for Gen 2, this would include Robin as a parent, also banning Morgan. But since Morgan is already a better Robin, this is expected.

Robin is far and away the best unit in the FE13 Link Arena. I think it speaks volumes that Robin is on every team since FE13 LA's inception. Even right now as people are, as Espinosa calls them, gimmick Robin builds, these gimmick builds attest to the versatility that Robin brings to the game. Robin is the best Sorcerer, best Assassin, best General, best Berserker, and so on (you get the idea). Robin's, literally, unparalleled versatility means the unit has zero opportunity cost. This is why no one has created a Robin-less team. Think about it: we haven't even figured out the best Robin set (and I don't think we ever will for a while considering how much this unit can do), and Robin is already the best unit in the game by a significant margin.

On the battlefield though, Robin isn't what you'd expect from a banworthy unit. It's not like his actual combat is leagues above the rest; it's pretty comparable for the most part, aside from some unique combinations. Robin is beaten similarly to how you'd beat other characters of Robin's class. It's also questionable if Robin's versatility actually hinders team building, despite being the only unit (one of three in Gen 2) that has no reason not to be used.

Regarding Gen 2 specifically, I think something needs to be done with Robin has a parent. There's still units I'd rather use Robin instead of in Gen 2 (Cynthia and Nah come to mind right away), and Robin's kids are literally straight upgrades on vanilla Robin. I also really don't like the idea of having three team slots (Robin + 2 kids) that you have no reason not to use due to the lack of an opportunity cost.

My idea was to not allow Morgan or Robin at all in a Gen 2 Meta, but then Horace pointed out, one Robin kid wouldn't be all that bad of a thing.

I also feel in a Gen 2 Meta we should only allow Kids and Spotpass units, although I'm not sure how the others would feel about this.

I agree with all you've said about Robin. He/She is basically the plug to the hole of any team you make.

[Espinosa]

Regarding Gen 2 specifically, I think something needs to be done with Robin has a parent. There's still units I'd rather use Robin instead of in Gen 2 (Cynthia and Nah come to mind right away), and Robin's kids are literally straight upgrades on vanilla Robin. I also really don't like the idea of having three team slots (Robin + 2 kids) that you have no reason not to use due to the lack of an opportunity cost.

That's what I said a page back, I believe. You have 3 units out of five, 2 with top tier mods and an endless skillset.

So far Robin hasn't proved to be bannable, but we'll see what new trends the futher weeks of Link Arena showcase.

My idea was to not allow Morgan or Robin at all in a Gen 2 Meta, but then Horace pointed out, one Robin kid wouldn't be all that bad of a thing.

I also feel in a Gen 2 Meta we should only allow Kids and Spotpass units, although I'm not sure how the others would feel about this.

I agree with all you've said about Robin. He/She is basically the plug to the hole of any team you make.

One kid may be less than two kids, but Robin and what is essentially a Robin+ is already about half the team. A meta of twelve kid units remaining still offers enough variety because of the potential builds you can use, as two kids with different parents can also be vastly different even if using the same class.

I wouldn't touch Spotpass units with a ten-foot pole tbqh. They're essentially Robins who demand that we adapt like 50 more silly-looking character portraits to the arena.

[Jedi]

That's what I said a page back, I believe. You have 3 units out of five, 2 with top tier mods and an endless skillset.

So far Robin hasn't proved to be bannable, but we'll see what new trends the futher weeks of Link Arena showcase.

One kid may be less than two kids, but Robin and what is essentially a Robin+ is already about half the team. A meta of twelve kid units remaining still offers enough variety because of the potential builds you can use, as two kids with different parents can also be vastly different even if using the same class.

I wouldn't touch Spotpass units with a ten-foot pole tbqh. They're essentially Robins who demand that we adapt like 50 more silly-looking character portraits to the arena.

Whoops I meant to say the likes of Yen'Fay and stuff and accidentally put spotpass.

[Espinosa]

Those six blokes have nothing to do in the gen 2 meta though. Here are just some of the ways in which they are outclassed:

- Gangrel - Henry has the same skillset so him having a kid with any of the +2 (or more) speed mothers produces a unit that's at least as fast as Gangrel and has better all-around stats, not to mention has a more versatile skillset.

- Emmeryn - Lissa is essentially a weaker clone with -2 mag and -1 spd. Catches up in stats by being paired with Libra/Ricken/Henry as the sole +mag fathers. Owain will have far better skills, reclasses (chance of actual Sorc and Dread Fighter builds now!) and utility.

- Yen'fay - +4 spd is pretty big, isn't it? Cynthia and Yarne have this much with a +0 spd father however, and probably won't have to rely on Astra procs for offence if the player is clever enough. You don't necessarily have to copy his whole class set, but such parent combinations like Sully+Virion/Stahl/Chrom match Yen'fay's skillset while mostly at least matching his stats, too.

- Aversa? Severa fathered by Frederick/Virion/Lon'qu will have the same class set covered, without matching Aversa's +3 magic mod however. Not like you should necessarily match them when you could go for more speed and more skill variety with Severa or any other kid. Shadowgift? Don't be kidding me.

- Priam. He has a ton more skills because of the three unique ones, so his class set is harder to match - you need Mercenary/Myrmidon/Fighter/Knight/Wyvern Rider to be exact. I don't believe this can be done without Robin actually. Still, does he want to show up in a meta where even Berserkers easily double him when he's holding a bow?

- Walhart. Obviously, only MorganM can run Conquest, and with if we assume a Morgan ban, Walhart is unique for having this skill. I have a feeling that in gen 2 it's PavGis Generals that will be more viable, and tomes/to a lesser extent arrows threaten thwomps more than Hammers and Armourslayers do.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, gentlemen:

I don't think Robin really needs a ban, because he can be on every team without being centralizing. What does that mean? Robin can do anything, almost at least, a majority of skill combos you'd desire Robin can get. And because of that, people have him do a lot of different things. People have Robin on every team, yes, but rarely are they functionally the same Robin. Even if you need Robin on every team, that doesn't particularly limit what options you have.

Now, for Gen II: I think only having Gen II units would be a good way to get around Robin, who's the only Gen I unit you'd use anyway. Now, I can understand if people desire to have a limit of one Robin child, which I think it a better option than flat out banning Morgan. That means if I want a Conquest or Shadowgift Morgan, I can have one instead of, say, MU!Cynthia.

[greenminid]

we could see about skill limiting if it becomes an issue. vengeance is already a game braker as well as aether. in children's meta we can have 2 units with luna + aether + rightful king.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I'll send my team tomorrow AnonymousSpeed, I'm still preparing it.

Not to be rude or pushy, but how does preparation go?

[Elieson]

If you've ever played Fire Emblem LTC, you know that the Preparation menu is where you spend about 1/3 of your time!!!!

Edited July 30, 2015 by Elieson

[AnonymousSpeed]

I haven't, but I've seen Horace's videos, and based on the amount of time each video lasts, I'd say that's being very generous.

[Espinosa]

I spend most of my LTC time (95% and upwards) playing out turns and repeating them until I get what I want actually.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I haven't played a Low Turn Count Game once in my life.

[Elieson]

I spend most of my LTC time (95% and upwards) playing out turns and repeating them until I get what I want actually.

I guess if you use emulation, repeating Savestates cuts out the back-n-forth from Prep to the battle itself.

[KP 2010]

Not to be rude or pushy, but how does preparation go?

He said he's no longer interested in playing.

Does anyone else wanna play FE7 max stats+boosters, no uber spear?

[Elieson]

I could host FE7 if you want.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, I'm hosting (and will probably employ your program thingy), he's looking for an opponent.

[Quintessence]

Hey Horace, your reddit link for the Crit Animations is dead :(

Any other link(s) to them? I haven't found one 8<