Reclass Mafia! Postgames are too much effort

[Zkirsche]

Oh my gosh stop cutting me.

I'll analyse Randa's recent posts later now that he has the conclusions I've been looking for, but I have to ferry my family around again.

[Randa]

As a little note I will not be able to post anything meaningful for a couple hours, so I'll answer any huge questions when I get home.

[CT075]

@Cam, OMGUS is "you voted me you must be scum" without looking at the post itself. I'm not gonna give someone immunity from suspicion just because they vote me. It also seems kinda weird how your vote was on Darros considering the amount you ripped into Randa.

not even gonna bother with semantics

whether or not it counts as an OMGUS, I still feel that it was bad considering that the entire reasoning was "you are wrong for X Y Z" (i have no problem), "this case looks slapdash and therefore you are scum" (what???)

Town can have poorly thought-out cases. It didn't even look like an attempt to bullshit content IMO, which is what you're accusing him of (it did look like mudslinging which is worse but that's beside the point)

i voted darros because i'm not entirely sold on randa being scum. he looks scummy but has also been making an active attempt to figure things out. darros, on the other hand, has basically been running around poking holes into things, defending himself and generally just not pinning himself down with any opinions

i'm content with where my vote is, otherwise i would have moved it.

Uh, what? How does me playing a lot of games stop me from being scum? Also kirsche has been playing longer than me but idk about the number of games.

obv playing longer means you get a hidden buff that automatically makes you town every game

i'm pretty sure that if you count OCtraining as my first game i've been playing for almost as long as either of you

Just bought a WiiU :3

scummy as fuck would lynch 10/10

Man, it isn't actually scummy but this attitude has been bugging me for a while: what does this do to contribute to anything? Either you say the meta is wrong or you have done nothing to alleviate the problem. Saying "oh you're biased" doesn't actually tell us if his bias actually came into play.

And you're still not voting anyone so I'm not sure who you find suspicious/what you found suspicious. Is using self-meta scummy? Is randomly determining SB to be scum by just looking at the playerlist for an RVS vote scummy? Is not wanting to look suspicious scummy?

I think that his point is that self-meta is generally not helpful; saying "i always do this" is counterproductive (considering that the underlying question is "why would you do this if you aren't scum"). by using his self-meta, poly is avoiding defending himself

Randa, it's all well and good to post shit cases to see reactions (I do the same frequently), but you need to get reads from doing it. For starters, you should explain why SB is looking townier now (aside from his case on you I don't really remember him doing much), what your thoguhts on Poly are and what you make of people's cases on Darros.

Randa > Darros

i was about to ask why you didn't vote randa and then i looked at the votals

First you claim that overreactive newbs can be scum as well as town - and then you say you don't find PK or Ace scummy? What was the point in stating that first part?

smells like painting someone black pointlessly

What's wrong with agreeing with someone's conclusion ("ace/lucas are town") while disagreeing on the reasoning ("they're town because they're new")?

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

and then what the fuck??? Never mentioned Randa other than to say that he's suspicious (for a bad reason, no less).

##Vote: Randa

[Da Bear]

Poly's self meta in #89 was legit bad but not necessarily scummy (town will grasp to defend themselves just as much as scum imo)

However his denial that it's self meta #151 is seriously bugging me.

Um, no? First off, I wouldn't be posting this much early game if I were; you know my meta.

This is pretty much the definition of self meta.

I've already said I dislike his case on randa

So overall he's scummy but Darros is more scummy.

[CT075]

oh god posts

So things I've noticed while rereading.

Ace: Starts stating suspicion of me and SB on page 7, however never states why he's suspicious of SB, and doesn't follow through with her suspicions until page 10. Strikes me as looking set one of us up of the other flips town. Might be overthinking here. Also never really states why he changes his mind on SB.

dislike having to qualify with "might be overthinking"

Tbh I can't really criticise FFM for reading Randa's posts poorly because my attention to them has been rather limited myself (scorri should put ISOs in the op). It might be the whole recency thing, but FFM's latest post feels like he's putting effort in to analyse the game and makes more sense to me than FFM is known for. That said I would like him to comment on other's cases.

where does it look like he's showing more effort

[CT075]

i'm also going to sleep (haha jaybee's timezone)

later nerds

[MRDRHAWK]

due to reasons involving me being very burnt out by mafia due to several factors I'd like to request a sub

[scorri]

due to reasons involving me being very burnt out by mafia due to several factors I'd like to request a sub

;-;

Ok, Blitz subs in for Poly effective immediately.

[MRDRHAWK]

yeah sorry guys I'm having a rough go of things right now

Blitzy don't fuck up

[Zkirsche]

Ok I analysed Randa's recent reads post:

Ace:Starts stating suspicion of me and SB on page 7, however never states why he's suspicious of SB, and doesn't follow through with her suspicions until page 10. Strikes me as looking set one of us up of the other flips town. Might be overthinking here. Also never really states why he changes his mind on SB.

Waffles at the end although the point itself is pretty legit. Ace is a little scummy for this.

Regarding SB: neither did you.

Poly: He seems the same as usual to me. And for bizzare I always think Poly's scum. I don't know why. Sorry dude.

8/10 case.

Belisauris: Really seems very aggressive in his few content post. Like really aggressive. That's more null to me, but not sure what others thing.

"Others should make up their mind on this behaviour".

Seems to be willing to wave off all of Ace's mistakes as newb plays, even to a higher degree than the rest of us.

This point is ignoring:

I still stand by my Ace = Newb Town assessment, especially since she seems to be contributing well since the AtE earlier.

Where FFM is saying that Ace made mistakes but then sorted herself out and is playing better.

So I'm not really happy with any of his reads besides maybe his Ace read. He didn't really address any of the stuff I mentioned (except for Poly but his Poly read is bullshit) but I assume he'll get to that when he comes back.

I think that his point is that self-meta is generally not helpful; saying "i always do this" is counterproductive (considering that the underlying question is "why would you do this if you aren't scum"). by using his self-meta, poly is avoiding defending himself

This isn't what he did though? He went "I wouldn't post this much as scum", which IS defending himself. It may be biased and putting a rosetint on it, but then it's up to you to call him out for that. Just saying "oh this is self-meta bad bad bad" is much more unhelpful.

where does it look like he's showing more effort

Well comparatively it's still a lot less effort than you/me/SB etc but I'm reading intent to analyse the game in his recent post. Of course, he needs to do a lot more, but from that post I just can't see the scum intent and he's producing reads and backing them up, even if two of them are mostly sheeping and going "too anti-town to be scum".

Randa > Darros > SB >> Ace

[Darros]

also think this is a shitty as fuck vote

all darrps has been doing is ripping on newbie play and slapfighting with randa over it, but it feels staged to me.

##vote darros

darros/sb/randa scumteam game cracked open gg?

It was the majority of ED1. Besides, isn't Randa not a newbie? He said himself the case was "super paranoid" and that's terrible justification. At the time of typing this ((aka not reading anything past this post)) I'm keeping my vote here.

also lmao nah because im not scum oΓ

dammit JB's timezone i need more people awake to post so i have things to spampost about so i can catch up to darrps

sorry cam im the posting queen

lol yeah okay, I didn't realize asking a legitimate question and ignoring the baseless accusations about not posting (aka not being online) would make everyone think I'm mafia 5 hours into the game. I'm not going to respond every time someone says my name just for the sake of getting "called out." I wasn't going to give my opinion until tomorrow when I saw more posts from everyone because this is a 72 hour phase regardless of what happens, but I may as well give it now.

##Vote: Builder Darros

He's overeager to find a mark so early in a 72 hour phase when most people haven't made many posts. He's also playing off of some other members who are posting for the sake of looking active.

Also, it's Belisarius. It's literally right there on your screen so unless you're going to call me Belisaurus Rex - spell it correctly.

That's jumping to conclusions. Not everyone thinks your mafia, calm down. And I know it was early into the phase, but you should probably read the thread fully before you bother posting, or at least make a note that you haven't read it and are going to continue reading it. Where you posted it looked like you just completely ignored everything or chose to not post. And that's scummy. If you don't think that's scummy please read up on mafia.

I don't think I'm being overeager, having small reads is better than nothing at all. Not saying anything is towns biggest weakness. I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. If you're feeling unsure of people, you should say it. What you did wasn't a townie move and I wanted to call it out.

And sorry about that, I'll correct my spelling in the future.

Darros:

-He harps on Ace's SB read for lack of reasons for several posts but doesnt give a read on him.

-"also note SB and I are the first two people on the playerlist." More harping on Ace without any actual read on him given. do you find this to be scummy?

"Oh look these are scummy things Ace is doing" I was under the impression that kind of meant I thought she was scummy? Maybe I should've been more explicit. Besides, like it's been said, she's new. And like I mentioned, it was too early to call anyone scummy based off just a few posts.

- gives a scumread and it's just him waffling om Lucas

I made a mistake wrt Green Poet and I acknowledged that. Check yourself.

-"I think it's too early to pinpoint a hard scumread..." if it's too early for a hard scumread why not commit to the strongest thing you have? The pure gut you were criticizing ace about > "I have nothing solid"

Gut reads are horrible and usually illogical. I don't want to vote someone that I feel very 50/50 on. They're scummier than nothing but I don't feel it was enough to put a vote down.

- he yells at randa about newb not meaning town automatically when the reason he doubts his Lucas read is Lucas' newness.

Randa was completely excusing "newb play". It's ignoring players entirely because "oh theyre new." They could be scum and people should be looking into that.

-where is an actual case on randa? it seems you're voting him because you find his play bad but you haven't given any reason scum would do what he's doing. bad play =/= scummy play is lile the golden rule of scumhunting ...

He came up with a terrible reason to vote someone over the guise of "oh this looks legit". It's not.

Also; a bunch of his posts just read like filler. That last one on beli Iis a perfect example.

Pointing out suspicious things = filler

okay bear you do you

There are 60 hours left in the phase.

i thought u were dead dont post noob :P

His reasoning for abstaining from making posts sounds too blatantly anti-town to be scummy.

I don't get this logic. How is anti-town play townie??????

I still stand by my Ace = Newb Town assessment, especially since she seems to be contributing well since the AtE earlier. Belasarius, Kinumi, Koneko and PK need moar content. Everyone else is null.

This I don't mind. Someone can be newb town, but dismissing them as town because they're newb is where problems arise. And that's what it looked like Randa did earlier.

Why would scum dismiss a reason to vote someone ever?

To appear town? Ideally scum would want out the experienced players and be left with newbs so they could pick them all off.

Man, it isn't actually scummy but this attitude has been bugging me for a while: what does this do to contribute to anything? Either you say the meta is wrong or you have done nothing to alleviate the problem. Saying "oh you're biased" doesn't actually tell us if his bias actually came into play.

If someone is using self meta, it instantly nullifies their point to me. Absolutely nothing good comes from self meta, it's an easy way for mafia members to trick people into thinking they're town.

And you're still not voting anyone so I'm not sure who you find suspicious/what you found suspicious. Is using self-meta scummy? Is randomly determining SB to be scum by just looking at the playerlist for an RVS vote scummy? Is not wanting to look suspicious scummy?

I've been voting for Randa for a quite a long time actually.

Using self meta is scummy, yes.

It's not really scummy but it's lazy play and I don't like it. It may have been a coincidence but I felt it was worth noticing.

Not wanting to look suspicious isn't outright scummy, but when it's your priority over wanting to find and lynch scum, that's where the problem is.

Ok you sorta answered my question(s) in this post (although you only say what PKLucas did was scummy), but why are you still not voting them? It's not like other people aren't voting weak scumreads at this point.

because I already voted

Isn't this a huge contradiction?

Like I said above, the problem is the immediate dismissal of their actions as "oh they're new so they can't be scum"

[Darros]

I want to look into the other people who sheeped Randa's case and brought him to L-2 but I'm not feelin' it right now so maybe in a couple hours

or like several hours

[Ace Tactician]

Did you just skim through the entire like thread or did you just miss the fact that I corrected myself the very next post. Posts 118/119 if you want specifics. It was a typo. Darros stated that overreactive newbs can be scum, I stated that over reactive newbs are not automatically scum.

I've read this whole thread over.

Honestly I think ace strikes me as the most likely right now. The vote on me seems opportunistic, given that she has stating suspicion for two pages and only when five other people have voted is she actually willing to stand by her suspicions. Seems like scum trying to blend in, but I think you have the same though process. Not sure but whatever. I do not however think Darros is scum, the actual vote struck as just early game sheep SB. Belarius was overly defensive so I'm not horribly thrilled about him right now, same with Poly.

So as it stands

Ace>Belarius>Poly>Lurkers>everybody else.

I will vote in my next post but I want to reread and see if I missed anything.

And now you're ripping my posts as being scummy?! I knew there was a reason your paranoid vote against SB didn't sit right with me. You're taking my posts as being suspicious. All you and Bear and Cam have done is look for any opening to rip apart any post I make. I stand by my suspicions.

Ok I analysed Randa's recent reads post:Waffles at the end although the point itself is pretty legit. Ace is a little scummy for this.Regarding SB: neither did you.8/10 case."Others should make up their mind on this behaviour".This point is ignoring:Where FFM is saying that Ace made mistakes but then sorted herself out and is playing better.So I'm not really happy with any of his reads besides maybe his Ace read. He didn't really address any of the stuff I mentioned (except for Poly but his Poly read is bullshit) but I assume he'll get to that when he comes back.This isn't what he did though? He went "I wouldn't post this much as scum", which IS defending himself. It may be biased and putting a rosetint on it, but then it's up to you to call him out for that. Just saying "oh this is self-meta bad bad bad" is much more unhelpful.Well comparatively it's still a lot less effort than you/me/SB etc but I'm reading intent to analyse the game in his recent post. Of course, he needs to do a lot more, but from that post I just can't see the scum intent and he's producing reads and backing them up, even if two of them are mostly sheeping and going "too anti-town to be scum".Randa > Darros > SB >> Ace

*insert facepalm emote here*

[Randa]

I've read this whole thread over. And now you're ripping my posts as being scummy?! I knew there was a reason your paranoid vote against SB didn't sit right with me. You're taking my posts as being suspicious. All you and Bear and Cam have done is look for any opening to rip apart any post I make. I stand by my suspicions. *insert facepalm emote here*

This makes me more confident in my vote right now. You adressed none of the points brought against you and went for the emotional appeal. It seems to me like an attempt to actively lurk. You don't bother defending yourself and you haven't helped in scumhunting. That's suspicious.

[Blitz]

Hey guys, I have been really wanting to play this game and I am glad I got to sub into it, however, I am not very good at playing more than one game at a time and I am focusing a little more on Conspiracy mafia cause it should end soon (@Poly, I am probably the easiest lynch target ever, so, me f*cking up is very common, lol)

First off, I my reads are not the same as Poly and I am sure we don't think the same way, so, my reads compared to his will be different

Next off, while reading the thread, it seemed to me like Poly attacked Beli in a personal level (which is why IMO Beli countered with aggression), and I would like to apologize to Beli for it and anyone else who might have been offended by Poly

also, I just have to say this, @Ace, stop being so reserved and post naturally (your posts sound like you are holding back what you actually want to say and only saying stuff that can't get votes on you) and stop caring about votes on you (the first NOC mafia game I ever played, I had 7 votes on me the first day in an 18 player game and I wasn't lynched, I was however lynched the 2nd day and I was actually town)

However, I do agree with Poly that Beli shouldn't try to sit in the sidelines cause if everyone was sitting in the sidelines for content to appear, it never will. However, I do agree that Darros has been posting a lot and trying to look like someone who does a lot without actually doing anything productive (more on Bear's point that Beli's, but Beli was the first to point suspicions on Darros)

btw Randa do you still find me scummy? Your posts kind of imply you don't but your vote is still there.

why does it matter is someone still finds you scummy or not cause only scum cares about that

Unvote

##Vote: SB

I am actually not done reading yet, lol

[Zkirsche]

They could be scum and people should be looking into that.

Is it really scummy to give newbies a free pass though, couldn't town and scum do that equally?

Pointing out suspicious things = filler

Tbh your post was a bad post, snarkily commenting on how Beli needed to post more content without encouragement to do so and doing your dumb "eyes emoji" thing. It wasn't really hunting for scum or defending yourself so yeah I'd classify it as filler.

it's an easy way for mafia members to trick people into thinking they're town.

Ok, does Poly post a lot early on as scum? Also, do you think Poly is the type of person to play against his meta just so he can make a comment like that? If the answers to those questions are both no then your criticism is unfounded. Branding all self-meta as bad is bad play.

I've been voting for Randa for a quite a long time actually.

I meant at the time of the post I quoted. Instead of voting these players for thier scummy/lazy play you just attack them for it and don't follow it up.

It's not really scummy but it's lazy play and I don't like it. It may have been a coincidence but I felt it was worth noticing.

Making an RVS vote is lazy?

Not wanting to look suspicious isn't outright scummy, but when it's your priority over wanting to find and lynch scum, that's where the problem is.

Is this the case here?

Like I said above, the problem is the immediate dismissal of their actions as "oh they're new so they can't be scum"

I think I'm reading the comment differently then, as I read it as "they're new so this isn't really indicative".

Nothing Darros said above makes me happier with him. He spent a long time defending his case, and while there was a lot brought up against him I'm not convinced scumhunting is his first priority right now as he spends more time snarkily pressuring people and correcting what he perceives to be bad (not scummy) play than actually pursuing scumreads. I can't even recall any of his suspicions other than Randa and at this point Randa is a really easy case (although I also believe Randa is scum). He's apparently goign to reread so I'm hoping to seeing actual scumhunting from him there.

*insert facepalm emote here*

Ok Ace I understand it can be frustrating to be suspected as town, so if you're struggling to come up with content do you mind commenting on my Darros/SB cases and/or say what you think of Beli's reactions, Poly's stuff, or what exactly is wrong with the suspicions people have brought up against you.

People kinda ignored my SB cases and Randa has seemingly avoided responding to me so step it up guys, want to see some responses to those. Also, and I know this is gold coming from me, but we should probably drop the levels of snark and not try to make people feel bad for any perceived mistakes.

[Koneko]

After reading all of this, I realize how complicated this can be.

God, who to choose to lynch. ;;''

[Ace Tactician]

This makes me more confident in my vote right now. You adressed none of the points brought against you and went for the emotional appeal. It seems to me like an attempt to actively lurk. You don't bother defending yourself and you haven't helped in scumhunting. That's suspicious.

I'VE DONE A LOT OF DEFENDING MYSEL. I'm FREAKING TRYING to scumhunt, so I f***ked up and ran around like a headless chicken. While you seem to content to deflect any and all suspicions off of and onto me.

Hey guys, I have been really wanting to play this game and I am glad I got to sub into it, however, I am not very good at playing more than one game at a time and I am focusing a little more on Conspiracy mafia cause it should end soon (@Poly, I am probably the easiest lynch target ever, so, me f*cking up is very common, lol)

First off, I my reads are not the same as Poly and I am sure we don't think the same way, so, my reads compared to his will be different

Next off, while reading the thread, it seemed to me like Poly attacked Beli in a personal level (which is why IMO Beli countered with aggression), and I would like to apologize to Beli for it and anyone else who might have been offended by Poly

also, I just have to say this, @Ace, stop being so reserved and post naturally (your posts sound like you are holding back what you actually want to say and only saying stuff that can't get votes on you) and stop caring about votes on you (the first NOC mafia game I ever played, I had 7 votes on me the first day in an 18 player game and I wasn't lynched, I was however lynched the 2nd day and I was actually town)

However, I do agree with Poly that Beli shouldn't try to sit in the sidelines cause if everyone was sitting in the sidelines for content to appear, it never will. However, I do agree that Darros has been posting a lot and trying to look like someone who does a lot without actually doing anything productive (more on Bear's point that Beli's, but Beli was the first to point suspicions on Darros)

why does it matter is someone still finds you scummy or not cause only scum cares about that

Unvote

##Vote: SB

I am actually not done reading yet, lol

At this point I'm strongly considering quitting. All this game has done is make me cry and get all upset.

Is it really scummy to give newbies a free pass though, couldn't town and scum do that equally?Tbh your post was a bad post, snarkily commenting on how Beli needed to post more content without encouragement to do so and doing your dumb "eyes emoji" thing. It wasn't really hunting for scum or defending yourself so yeah I'd classify it as filler.Ok, does Poly post a lot early on as scum? Also, do you think Poly is the type of person to play against his meta just so he can make a comment like that? If the answers to those questions are both no then your criticism is unfounded. Branding all self-meta as bad is bad play.I meant at the time of the post I quoted. Instead of voting these players for thier scummy/lazy play you just attack them for it and don't follow it up.Making an RVS vote is lazy?Is this the case here?I think I'm reading the comment differently then, as I read it as "they're new so this isn't really indicative".Nothing Darros said above makes me happier with him. He spent a long time defending his case, and while there was a lot brought up against him I'm not convinced scumhunting is his first priority right now as he spends more time snarkily pressuring people and correcting what he perceives to be bad (not scummy) play than actually pursuing scumreads. I can't even recall any of his suspicions other than Randa and at this point Randa is a really easy case (although I also believe Randa is scum). He's apparently goign to reread so I'm hoping to seeing actual scumhunting from him there.Ok Ace I understand it can be frustrating to be suspected as town, so if you're struggling to come up with content do you mind commenting on my Darros/SB cases and/or say what you think of Beli's reactions, Poly's stuff, or what exactly is wrong with the suspicions people have brought up against you.People kinda ignored my SB cases and Randa has seemingly avoided responding to me so step it up guys, want to see some responses to those. Also, and I know this is gold coming from me, but we should probably drop the levels of snark and not try to make people feel bad for any perceived mistakes.

SB...the thought of him flipping scum crossed my mind at the getgo. Darros doesn't seem to have scumhunting as a priority, Beli hasn't posted much so could be waiting for more content to come up or might be scum in hiding.

[Randa]

My apologies kirsche I will a ddress your posts as soon as I figure out what the he'll I'm supposed to do for my college alchol awareness program.

[BBM]

My apologies kirsche I will a ddress your posts as soon as I figure out what the he'll I'm supposed to do for my college alchol awareness program.

"if you drink alcohol you fail"

[Randa]

"if you drink alcohol you fail"

no coach said we can drink anytime between the months of january and june.

[Darros]

okay I feel like I'm going to puke and this game is not helping me out so I'm going to post whatever I have here and probably leave it for a bit

Is it really scummy to give newbies a free pass though, couldn't town and scum do that equally?

Town doing this isn't doing themselves any favors, so I would think so.

Tbh your post was a bad post, snarkily commenting on how Beli needed to post more content without encouragement to do so and doing your dumb "eyes emoji" thing. It wasn't really hunting for scum or defending yourself so yeah I'd classify it as filler.

I thought Beli would get the hint, it wasn't really secretive of what I was trying to indicate.

its not dumb im sad now

Ok, does Poly post a lot early on as scum? Also, do you think Poly is the type of person to play against his meta just so he can make a comment like that? If the answers to those questions are both no then your criticism is unfounded. Branding all self-meta as bad is bad play.

tbh I don't really know if he posts a lot early on as scum, I'm not entirely sure of his meta. But I think anyone could play against their meta to try and screw town. It's a smart move if they're doing so. Self meta just doesn't make me comfortable with whoever's doing it.

I meant at the time of the post I quoted. Instead of voting these players for thier scummy/lazy play you just attack them for it and don't follow it up.

Because honestly it's not enough I feel. Nothing was suspicious enough to warrant a vote from me.

Making an RVS vote is lazy?

Well Ace said SB was scummy and mentioned the roster. It wasn't lining up.

Is this the case here?

Sure looks like it.

OK re: the people on the Randa wagon

FFM: I'm kind of wavering on FFM right now.

His reasoning for abstaining from making posts sounds too blatantly anti-town to be scummy.

I absolutely don't like this, same reason as Randa dismissing newbs scummy actions as town. But then he turns around with this

First you claim that overreactive newbs can be scum as well as town - and then you say you don't find PK or Ace scummy? What was the point in stating that first part?

in the exact same post. It's hypocritical to give people free passes and call out Randa for doing the exact same thing.

Being the last on that wagon didn't help much either.

Poly/Blitz:

okay so upon rereading Randa his SB case feels super-forced and the fact that he had to justify it seems really sketchy

well he basically said it was, this is stuff I said before.

I don't even know what he's playing at with that post considering his vote at that point is still on the most veteran player in the game (SBuh), even if did correct it later.

Like I said after this post, mafia would want new players alive with experienced ones dead. This is a legit point. I'm not concerned about Poly/Blitz.

That's all I really seem to have right now. Not impressed with FFM but what's new there.I'm keeping my vote on Randa still.

[Randa]

please no ninjas

God damn Kirsche you made me bust out my bluetooth keyboard for this.

Lets see i think i already did what you wanted me to do in post 194. Which unless i read wrong was to give reads which i was already working on. so i assume thats not the post i was "avoiding". i already said i would be out of my house for a while and could not make a meaningful response for a couple of hours, so not really avoiding just timing problems from the looks of it.

SB I'm here now but why cut me. Yeah I'm OG as fuck sheep me. Ok cool, most of them are just sheeping you or others though so it's not really giving off the looks of being proactive. Also, who is guilty of this, because if it's just FFM then it's hardly a scum-pushed mislynch. I feel like this is a really easy way of jumping off of the Randa wagon. is Randa still scummy to you/if not where's the town intent in his recent posts? What do you make of my point regarding the lack of conclusions from his weak cases and his jump to saying you're town?Tbh I can't really criticise FFM for reading Randa's posts poorly because my attention to them has been rather limited myself (scorri should put ISOs in the op). It might be the whole recency thing, but FFM's latest post feels like he's putting effort in to analyse the game and makes more sense to me than FFM is known for. That said I would like him to comment on other's cases.I reread Randa's recent wall because of SB and I'm actually struggling to comprehend some of his own points. I don't really know what he means by being "done" and This is fair enough, but then why were you so reluctant to make the shit case to begin with, if you wanted to push the game along by making a shit case why didn't you make it before you were prodded to make one? This is just an excuse for his appeasement imo.

Bolded whats actually for me. Being done basically means it has valid reasoning or is a complete finished ready to be used, and i will voluntarily display them. But the one i did give was really not finished.

i would've preferred to have held on to that for later, with more backing it, as such i did not want to voluntarily release it. however i only had one logical read, and a very easy one at that, would not have accomplished anything when SB asked, especially considering that the case had already been pointed out.

so rather than just keep us in a rut, i decided i would show the unfinished, theory, paranoid, whatever you wanna call it, case on SB to actually move the game along. in a sense you are right the case was released as appeasement, but it was also used as a piece to help the game move along.

but i do have to point out that fact the though people state that the case was scummy, there was no benefit for me to post that as scum. if anything its a null.

least thats the way i see it.

Oh my gosh stop cutting me.I'll analyse Randa's recent posts later now that he has the conclusions I've been looking for, but I have to ferry my family around again.

i dont know why i put this in here.

Ok I analysed Randa's recent reads post:Waffles at the end although the point itself is pretty legit. Ace is a little scummy for this.Regarding SB: neither did you.

8/10 case.

"Others should make up their mind on this behaviour".

This point is ignoring:Where FFM is saying that Ace made mistakes but then sorted herself out and is playing better.

So I'm not really happy with any of his reads besides maybe his Ace read. He didn't really address any of the stuff I mentioned (except for Poly but his Poly read is bullshit) but I assume he'll get to that when he comes back.

This isn't what he did though? He went "I wouldn't post this much as scum", which IS defending himself. It may be biased and putting a rosetint on it, but then it's up to you to call him out for that. Just saying "oh this is self-meta bad bad bad" is much more unhelpful.Well comparatively it's still a lot less effort than you/me/SB etc but I'm reading intent to analyse the game in his recent post. Of course, he needs to do a lot more, but from that post I just can't see the scum intent and he's producing reads and backing them up, even if two of them are mostly sheeping and going "too anti-town to be scum".Randa > Darros > SB >> Ace

I actually looked back and was surprised that i did not address the SB matter. I will address it now however. SB was not somebody that i was convinced was scum to begin with. a little bit of real life frustration led to me voting him over Poly, and so when none of my suspicions looked to be true i simply was not suspicious.

not gonna bother my "Poly case" because he subbed and the fact of the matter is i always read him as scum, so #sorrynotsorry.

over aggressive behavior is all i really took from beli's post and that can be either town or scum, i stated in my analysis that upon rereading the section in question it was more null interaction, with a slight lean towards scum. however its not a strong conviction either way. and before you ask, i know that in my post before that i said beli was number two on my lynch list but further reading changed my opinion.

we all gave an early pass for the RVS mess, but the play never really straightened out imo. i can account for some of it being inexperience, but some of it just strikes me wrong.

Is it really scummy to give newbies a free pass though, couldn't town and scum do that equally?Tbh your post was a bad post, snarkily commenting on how Beli needed to post more content without encouragement to do so and doing your dumb "eyes emoji" thing. It wasn't really hunting for scum or defending yourself so yeah I'd classify it as filler.Ok, does Poly post a lot early on as scum? Also, do you think Poly is the type of person to play against his meta just so he can make a comment like that? If the answers to those questions are both no then your criticism is unfounded. Branding all self-meta as bad is bad play.I meant at the time of the post I quoted. Instead of voting these players for thier scummy/lazy play you just attack them for it and don't follow it up.Making an RVS vote is lazy?Is this the case here?I think I'm reading the comment differently then, as I read it as "they're new so this isn't really indicative".Nothing Darros said above makes me happier with him. He spent a long time defending his case, and while there was a lot brought up against him I'm not convinced scumhunting is his first priority right now as he spends more time snarkily pressuring people and correcting what he perceives to be bad (not scummy) play than actually pursuing scumreads. I can't even recall any of his suspicions other than Randa and at this point Randa is a really easy case (although I also believe Randa is scum). He's apparently goign to reread so I'm hoping to seeing actual scumhunting from him there.Ok Ace I understand it can be frustrating to be suspected as town, so if you're struggling to come up with content do you mind commenting on my Darros/SB cases and/or say what you think of Beli's reactions, Poly's stuff, or what exactly is wrong with the suspicions people have brought up against you.People kinda ignored my SB cases and Randa has seemingly avoided responding to me so step it up guys, want to see some responses to those. Also, and I know this is gold coming from me, but we should probably drop the levels of snark and not try to make people feel bad for any perceived mistakes.

now that im done with this qurflafel im gonna go reread darros, ace, cam, and bear.

because, pretty much the only other wagon, biggest scum read, and curios whether or not ace was overeacting.

[Randa]

Darros: Tunnel vision? Maybe. i still dont see the case on him. maybe active lurking? maybe.

Ace: A lot of fluff. Gonna go back to the point about her vote on me for a minute. Between the time where she first expressed suspicion, a time at which her vote was doing nothing, and the time she voted me, she made nine post. Thats more than some of the game has made overall. And strangely enough none of really seemed to be scum hunting. before you complain that you have, i would like see a post in that time where you did actually partake in scum hunting.

Now the part that strikes me funny, was that her vote on me came the post directly after FFM, who i have stated seems to be giving her more leeway than i do or that most do.

so FFM/Ace buddying maybe. if one flips scum i definitely think the other will.

I'll get to cam/bear later.

But just to try and get some discussion going blitz what do you think so far. any reads of note, or any comment on mine and darros's wagons.

and to the people who have sort of just park voted since RVS any opinions on who might actually be scum.

[BBM]

I'm going to offer some general advice. Remember, most people have no information to start the game other than your own role PM. To make up for this, they are going to comb through your posts, as they will comb through everybody's posts. They might be wrong, you might be wrong, but if nobody tries to make some educated guesswork, town will never win. You have to put yourself in other people's shoes and try to determine what their intent is.

The most important thing is to not take anything personally and have fun. If you're not having fun then maybe mafia isn't the game for you. By nature it can get a little heated.