Tyne-Wear Mafia - Where Are They Now? Special Bonus 2016 Update

[Shin]

Rage, kirsche appeared. It's not that I'm cheering for it, I can see some semblance of logic in it. I'm not backing it because he wasn't my top read at the time. Plus, I've only just had a chance to read over stuff - my mother decided I needed some curry after eating half a chicken.

Oh, okay I missed that. But why is Rapier's focus on Weapons bad? There are a lot of people with very few scumreads at this point, so what makes him worse than the others? You're not actually addressing his content here.

Not having scumreads at this point is pretty acceptable. However, it's his sole focus on Weapons that irks me. Iso's would prove pretty helpful at this point, but virtually all his content is telling people to leave him alone or some variable opinion on Weapons. He has one post which has something resembling reads, but a deeper analysis shows how shallow they actually are. He also dismisses my case on him and doesn't actually answer the question he was asked.

His case on Weapons looks big, but a lot of it's just taunting. Still Weapons' flip on Rapier was bad, like he was trying to get him off his case. In retrospect, I could probably say Rapier's improved somewhat, albeit his tunnelisms.

##Unvote

I'm still somewhat convinced of an FFM town, the SB vote sucked but I don't see it as an easy wagon to push at all. I don't like relying on meta, but I feel that scum!FFM would go for something easier. Weapons basically followed with "yeah, SB's so scummy, I agree or something like that", which I thought was bad.

Just so I don't forget, I don't really think anything of the BBM/Prims thing. It's pretty clear I thought that it wasn't entirely serious from an earlier post of mine. I'm actually rather liking BBM right now and Prims is kinda not there.

##Vote: Randa

Randa's generally been uncommitted to the game, so much in fact I haven't noticed them at all! How can you have no reads if you've made a case on Weapons, well borrowed a case! A lot of his comments aren't actually about game content itself, more than speculation of play theory. Would sheep Cam, 10/10.

[Da Bear]

So two things,

1. I exist.

2. I've read the thread and I'm honestly more confused than anything (this might have something to do with me getting 7 hours of sleep over the last two nights). I'll do some more reading tonight and try to figure out where I stand on everything that's happened.

[Rapier]

I'm still voting Rapier if I recall. I think Weapons is somewhat scummy for his antics, but I'm voting Rapier because I consider him a more likely scum candidate. Rapier's been tunneling on Weapons, and I'm still voting him. That would imply that I still consider him scummy, no?

How is that tunneling? I find Weapons scummy and I feel like he's the best candidate for President. I want him to answer why he voted Randa (because I didn't find any reasoning behind his exchange of vote other than "YAY WAGON HOP") and I dislike his sheepish reasons for switching to SB. Also, his roleclaim makes him look townie because it's naturally an useless role for scum but it actually proves nothing, I suspect he did that on purpose to look good.

Also, how is that tunneling if I voted him 4 hours ago and made only three posts relating to that? Tunneling, in my dictionary, is when you focus on a single player persistantly, which I am not.

The same can't be said about you, though. You've kept your vote on me since page 3, IIRC. Your only scumreads are Weapons and me, from what you said, and you just handwaved Weapons without further explaining your point. Sounds like an opportunistic way of keeping your vote while SEEMING like you have opinions about the rest of the game.

Would you give us your reasoning for finding Weapons scummy? "For his antics" is a bit too vague.

@kirsche & Prims

Why is Weapons town? Meta aside.

@Randa

So, you don't have any reads aside from Weapons?

[Randa]

How is that tunneling? I find Weapons scummy and I feel like he's the best candidate for President. I want him to answer why he voted Randa (because I didn't find any reasoning behind his exchange of vote other than "YAY WAGON HOP") and I dislike his sheepish reasons for switching to SB. Also, his roleclaim makes him look townie because it's naturally an useless role for scum but it actually proves nothing, I suspect he did that on purpose to look good.

Also, how is that tunneling if I voted him 4 hours ago and made only three posts relating to that? Tunneling, in my dictionary, is when you focus on a single player persistantly, which I am not.

The same can't be said about you, though. You've kept your vote on me since page 3, IIRC. Your only scumreads are Weapons and me, from what you said, and you just handwaved Weapons without further explaining your point. Sounds like an opportunistic way of keeping your vote while SEEMING like you have opinions about the rest of the game.

Would you give us your reasoning for finding Weapons scummy? "For his antics" is a bit too vague.

@kirsche & Prims

Why is Weapons town? Meta aside.

@Randa

So, you don't have any reads aside from Weapons?

Not really. I feel like I'm overlooking something important wrt Prims, Refa, and SB but I can't figure out what. Also I think people misunderstood, I voted weapons because I wanted an explanation more so than thinking he was/is flat out scum, obviously he's still an area of concern but like pretty much the entire game he's null, just closer to a scum read than most. Also I don't see all this content we're supposed to work with I see a lot of spam, some of which is mine.

[Rapier]

well crap, i'm 20 minutes late

[Shin]

How is that tunneling? I find Weapons scummy and I feel like he's the best candidate for President. I want him to answer why he voted Randa (because I didn't find any reasoning behind his exchange of vote other than "YAY WAGON HOP") and I dislike his sheepish reasons for switching to SB. Also, his roleclaim makes him look townie because it's naturally an useless role for scum but it actually proves nothing, I suspect he did that on purpose to look good.

Also, how is that tunneling if I voted him 4 hours ago and made only three posts relating to that? Tunneling, in my dictionary, is when you focus on a single player persistantly, which I am not.

The same can't be said about you, though. You've kept your vote on me since page 3, IIRC. Your only scumreads are Weapons and me, from what you said, and you just handwaved Weapons without further explaining your point. Sounds like an opportunistic way of keeping your vote while SEEMING like you have opinions about the rest of the game.

Kneejerk too pro, patella strike so stronk. Note, I've talked about other people and my vote's currently on Randa for the reasons above. I've highlighted why I didn't like Weapons, his sudden opinion switches on you and the general avoidance of questions. I kept my vote on you because I thought you were scummy, and I've changed my priorities as the game's progressed.

I'm not even going to reply the bolded part... except I just did. You're horrendously oversimplifying what I've said, it comes across as an outburst for me having a vote on you. Besides, if I were opportunistic, wouldn't I have jumped onto a popular wagon.

Also... DA BEAR. I legitimately didn't know he was in this game.

[Shin]

Man, I wished I used a question mark for the end of the second paragraph, what a scrub.

[Randa]

Besides, if I were opportunistic, wouldn't I have jumped onto a popular wagon.

You just did though. Last I checked I have six votes on me now, maybe five. Idk.

Also... DA BEAR. I legitimately didn't know he was in this game.

Neither did I.

[Shin]

You just did though. Last I checked I have six votes on me now, maybe five. Idk.

Wow, I swore it was like 3 or something, but yeah, I think I'm number 5! Lack of votals hurts!

[Randa]

Only three right now. Weird. Shows how much I've paid attention to votes on me. Seven or eight people on total have voiced the same opinion as you did though. I wonder a bit hypocritical calling me out for using other people's cases to get an answer from weapons while you can use other people case to avoid making a realistic case. I might actually address one of the cases against me in a bit. Maybe.

[Prims]

The only other thing I see as remotely suspicious is FFM waiting for Paper's vote on me to follow through himself (although I haven't minded his other posts) rather than voting me when the posts were made.

I agree with this. Also FFM himself only has the aforementioned SB read so I want him to explain why SB's lack of reads is scum behavior.

Belisaur can get dead because his post comes to no conclusion and I somehow don't think the Weapons wagon is the only thing to happen this game. this is d1 in a large game so i'm feeling like culling a low-content scummy player tbh

@Rapier: Darros has played in like 3 recent games actually lol. in any case why are you singling out Weapons over the other sheepier players? Weapons' play here is set to draw attention to him and be contrarian toward other people (see his response to you) which isn't scum's modus operandi; scum!Weapons should be acting a lot more subtle.

@Shin: Paper was interested in a SB wagon, how does that make it a hard wagon to push? Also scum doesn't want town to mislynch town with them, they just want town to mislynch town (in fact it's even better if scum is off the wagon and doesn't have to take responsibility), and this is assuming SB is town in the first place.

I actually don't necessarily suspect Randa at this point, looks like town who lost his footing early on and people are piling on before he can recover.

@Mods: Requesting votals and ISOs.

[Rapier]

Kneejerk too pro, patella strike so stronk. Note, I've talked about other people and my vote's currently on Randa for the reasons above. I've highlighted why I didn't like Weapons, his sudden opinion switches on you and the general avoidance of questions. I kept my vote on you because I thought you were scummy, and I've changed my priorities as the game's progressed.

I'm not even going to reply the bolded part... except I just did. You're horrendously oversimplifying what I've said, it comes across as an outburst for me having a vote on you. Besides, if I were opportunistic, wouldn't I have jumped onto a popular wagon.

Also... DA BEAR. I legitimately didn't know he was in this game.

Sorry Shin, I didn't read your page 11 post. In fact, it didn't exist at that time (and I took my time because I got distracted). So, let me update my reads on you.

You said you thought I was scummy. Past tense. What happened to make you switch your opinions on me so quickly? It's as if kirsche's read made you flip your case over and try something different because your position was terrible. Also, how am I tunneling exactly if I voted Weapons four hours ago and only made three posts referring to him?

Also, being opportunistic isn't synonymous of jumping onto a popular wagon. There are many ways to be opportunistic on Mafia (jumping on popular wagons is the worst of them and easiest to spot). In fact, just as Randa said, you jumped on the easiest wagon. So maybe I'm right on this one, eh?

Unvote

##Vote: Shin

Your reasons for switching your vote are pretty shallow. From what you said, you still have the same opinion about me, yet decided to unvote and go for Randa after kirsche addressed you. Why did you do that? Why do you find Randa more scummy than me now? I'm also not liking the way you're repeating what everyone said about Randa without adding anything original. Seems opportunistic and lazy.

[Paperblade]

It's not that SB is playing badly, it's that it feels like he's deliberately not trying to play well

I don't really like Weapons' lack of concrete opinions. His only reason for voting SB seems to be because it's not him, I haven't really seen any original reasoning at all. I'm still trying to figure out what he's actually thinking beyond "don't lynch me". Still, the wagon's built pretty fast. I'm not saying it doesn't have its merits, but Rapier's focus on Weapons is a little off-putting.

Not having scumreads at this point is pretty acceptable.

Also, huh? Shin, can you explain this?

[charlie_]

Uh, what? Even if that's true, why would that be scummy?

[Paperblade]

Rapier, what is scummy about Weapons getting on the SB wagon?

[Shin]

Only three right now. Weird. Shows how much I've paid attention to votes on me. Seven or eight people on total have voiced the same opinion as you did though. I wonder a bit hypocritical calling me out for using other people's cases to get an answer from weapons while you can use other people case to avoid making a realistic case. I might actually address one of the cases against me in a bit. Maybe.

Let's see;

BBM says you made a one-liner about FFM and generally ignore most the game.

Poly says that you generally flip-flopped and didn't want to commit to an argument.

Blitz says that you're not really contributing and are actively lurking (whatever that means).

Cam says you pushed a Weapons case and then dropped it and haven't done much else

I dunno, I wouldn't say these cases are too unreasonable, maybe perhaps Poly's but I don't recall him saying much else after that. I would be somewhat inclined to believe Prims' theory of a pressured town!Randa, but even then you've waffled about three possible candidates you want to look in to but decide the time's better spent trying to discredit a read on yourself.

Rapier, I count at least seven posts where you either talk about Weapons or talk directly to him. But numbers aren't important! I still feel this is a kneejerk reaction, you'd have found out why I'd unvoted you from reading my post. I mentioned reasons why Randa seemed scummy in my own words. Randa claimed to have had no reads, but sheeped a Weapons read and it's suddenly vanished some time later after it stopped being cool.

Paper, I should have specified "strong" scumreads, I'd have expected at least a little inkling on a few people other than his main read. I need to sleep so SHIN OUT.

[Shin]

@Shin: Paper was interested in a SB wagon, how does that make it a hard wagon to push? Also scum doesn't want town to mislynch town with them, they just want town to mislynch town (in fact it's even better if scum is off the wagon and doesn't have to take responsibility), and this is assuming SB is town in the first place.

Could you link to this, I think I had a brainfart at some point. I just feel that it was an unusual choice for FFM to go for as scum. I'm kinda neutral on SB, I don't think he's particularly scummy or not, but the point would remain regardless of his alignment.

[Rapier]

Rapier, what is scummy about Weapons getting on the SB wagon?

He didn't care enough to give a better justification than "hey everyone already said why he's scummy so I'll just vote him without explaining my reasoning *votes*". His vote on Randa was the worst offender, though, since he gave no justification whatsoever for it.

@Shin

Actually, you didn't say why you decided to drop your vote on me. Your thoughts about me seem to be the same, yet you decided that Randa was a worst offender and switched your vote. Also, the comparisson to others' cases on Randa is valid, they all addressed his lack of contribution and so did you now ("Randa's generally been uncommitted to the game, so much in fact I haven't noticed them at all!"). It seems like you're echoing what other four people said in your own tune, which seems weak compared to your case on me.

[Randa]

Shin if I was focusing on discrediting reads on me don't you think I would've posted something to discredit them by now. I said I might. Maybe address one. As it is I'm still trying to figure what it is about the three of them that sits with me wrong, I can't find anything rational though at least not yet.

[CT075]

(Phone)

Looking for reasons the people attacking you are wolfy doesn't nake you any less wolfy

you did this in reclass too and HEYO you definitely weren't villager

[Randa]

(Phone)

Looking for reasons the people attacking you are wolfy doesn't nake you any less wolfy

you did this in reclass too and HEYO you definitely weren't villager

That's not what I'm doing. I'm looking at three people who have not voiced any suspicion of me, to my knowledge, and trying to figure out what it is that doesn't feel right. If I actually were to push shin you would be right. Not the case though.

[Randa]

Besides I only did that with blitz, you I just pointed out the logic problems with it, and stated that one of your points was pretty scummy.

[charlie_]

Shin's Rapier read still reads like bs, he says not having reads at this point is fine but still attacks Rapier anyway? Even if you took it literally, how is having 1 read worse than having 0?

Prims should elaborate on his Randa read. I don't like how Randa is focused on how he's not defending himself, it feels like he's trying to sell himself as townie more than anything else.

It's cool how Paper saw my post and then didn't respond.

[Rapier]

@Rapier: Darros has played in like 3 recent games actually lol. in any case why are you singling out Weapons over the other sheepier players? Weapons' play here is set to draw attention to him and be contrarian toward other people (see his response to you) which isn't scum's modus operandi; scum!Weapons should be acting a lot more subtle.

I must have missed these sheepier players. Anyway, my case on Weapons is based on more than just sheeping (which I already explained several times before, so I don't feel like repeating myself unnecessarily), that is not the sole reason why I made my case on him. Also, your defense on Weapons seems based solely on meta, which is too weak to serve as an evidence for me. The facts are what he did (which I pointed before) and his harmful uncooperative behavior.

I'm against thinking through the "hey scum would never do something illogical as that!" line because people make more illogical mistakes than you'd think. He could be scum acting in a way that could harm himself out of ingenuinity. So if his actions aren't scum's modus operandi, it doesn't serve as an excuse for me.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

You're making the mistake of assuming outright sheeping is scummy. Can you explain why this is a thing scum does more often than town? If the best you can do is WIFOM, then that's not a very good argument.

@Other people, does SB usually ask a lot of questions that he doesn't follow up on as townz? I'm waiting for something.

I like Shin, Renda is okay, PB is jelly, and everyone is mixed up.

Also calling scumrri, you heard it here first. Bonus points if she suddenly shows up with attention on her.