Dot.hack//The World:R1 Mafia(Game thread)

[Green Poet]

In the middle of working on a large post containing my thoughts on the whole game so far. Need to stop in order to take a train, so, as of my impressions up to mid-page 6 only, I am scumreading Rapier > Poly, I think that Blitz and Via are townies slapfighting unnecessarily over the course of pages mid2-late4, I think that SB has been playing the most rationally throughout the game (though most of his posts are nulltells since logic =/= townie) and I have an interesting thing to say about Refa's colloquialisms (maybe not so interesting plz don't be offended roofa)

If it matters, I would have voted Via around the middle of page 2 and voteswitched to Rapier towards the bottom of page 4, if I had been present. Going to finish the large reads/impressions post before I actually put down a vote in order to make sure it's actually still relevant.

I won't be around to answer anything for a few hours, and at that point I will probably still get the reads post out first before responding to anyone's stuff.

cut: Gaius' avatar is also super cute and awesome and I'm probably going to end up townreading him for that gggggghhh.

[Refa]

Man, that programming assignment took longer than I thought. I won't be able to finish a post today, but I should have one up by tomorrow.

Where can I find ISOS? (I'm assuming it's what every person has said in isolation lol.)

They're on the first page.

and I have an interesting thing to say about Refa's colloquialisms (maybe not so interesting plz don't be offended roofa)

Dude, what are you talking about?! I'd never get offended by something like that.

[Bluedoom]

Ahhhhhhh 11 pages in and half the game is still yet to contribute significantly. I'll try to make do with what's there for now though.

##vote:SB

I feel like your vote on me was twisting my actions and making them appear to have scum intentions when that wasn't necessarily the case, but I didn't want to vote you then because that was to little to go on. However, I feel like your rapier vote is nitpicking one read and blowing it out of proportion. It isn't unlikely for townie to not notice the time period during which content can be generated, and I wouldn't put it past rapier to not really think about the context behind weapons' content, so why is he scum for it, instead of inattentive town?

Also you handled your eury vote better but your Terra vote feels iffy because the reasons he cites for his kirsche scum read are similar to your for not claiming to him, the only difference being that you're not citing kirsche. Or like, have a definitive read on him.

I think Terra is town because his scum self would not dedicate many parts to justify his kirsche scum read.

Kirsche needs to clarify what he had exactly claimed and what he has faked, if he had, in thread because this would help me with my reads on some of the other players.

Rapier's play has been town!deep play IMO (I think he'd be more active lurky as scum although it have never played with scum him before) so I'm not interested in voting him.

I want to see refa's next pay before I type my read on him since its marred by

his RVs play atm.

This post would have more scum reads but tbh I feel like some people who have posted less past RVs need to post more because I'm not very confident in voting them just yet.

[Bluedoom]

Oh fuck phone posting

@randa email:

1. Thanks

2. No, I'm not.

3.I already explained earlier in the thread about why I didn't have much content.

[Bluedoom]

Yeah there are way to many typos in that post so am me if you need something to be classified.

[Bluedoom]

... >.>

[Baldrick]

Can some1 explain 2 me why Rapier has 3 votes and is the leading wagon, 4 I am 5 and do not get the case.

I have only read page 6 onwards, so yeah.

If we do the town leader thing, I would only claim to Via, because their role is good for organising night actions (they can send a lot more than 7 emails) and more cooks will only spoil the broth.

Either I 8 something funny, or Randa's Eury vote is hurting my gut. Considering how meta-heavy his reads are, it seems weird he's not taking her obvious meta into account. It's not easy to be concise and meaningful when you're used to putting up 9 million word walls.

##vote: Randa

Hi I exist.

Already better than poly/10

[Baldrick]

@people voting kirsche, I don't disagree but he isn't being lynched today, so who else do you find scummy?

[Person123]

I'm not at all confident on the case against Rapier. As I understand it, it's mostly due to the combination of posts he made at the bottom of page 3, where he claims he's not going to vote anyone right now, and 2 minutes later he posted his vote for Marth and claimed he "forgot to vote." Seems more like a brainfart than anything particularly malicious.

SB's vote on him seems to be for a different reason, and I disagree with it. Rapier's thoughts wrt Weapons mirror my own. I don't like at all how he's tunneling hard on Rapier, especially considering the remarkably weak case against him. I don't understand how Bluedoom could be his strongest townread either. It just comes off as forced, and I'm not buying it.

As for Kirsche, it's far too early to accept him as town. It would be reckless to just claim everything to him until he was 100% cleared. He said if no masons were revealed by day 3, it would be reasonable to suspect him, but by then the damage would already be done if he was scum. Especially considering he is more or less confirmed to be mayor.

I'm fine with leaving my vote on Weapons for now.

I'll have more later, I just got back and had to catch up on everything. I should be able to check in often throughout today though.

[Green Poet]

hmm, LOC is rather complicated..

Anyway, reads/impressions post from the last 10 pages:

[spoiler=Via & Blitz situation. From game start to mid-page 3]

SB: "Realtalk though, this post reminded me that there's probably a decent chance this is multiball? Based on the last .hack mafia."

What's "multiball"?

pedit: From later context I assume it's synonymous with "multifaction"?

Via: "blitz it's ed1 scumvibes why are you so defensive"

It didn't sound defensive since Blitz was trying to figure out what about his voteswitch had given Via "vibes" when no real explanation was given. Calling someone defensive over this is an overstatement imo.

Poly: "though I don't particularly like the Blitz/Via exchange just now; while I thought Blitz was being fairly defensive I feel like the way Via went about telling it was a bit vague and distance-y?"

If you didn't really like either of their responses, what in particular made you vote Via over Blitz?

Via: "DUDE WHAT EVEN AM I SUPPOSED TO SAY

IT'S AN ED1 GUTREAD"

I don't like how the conversation got hung up on this, it's been about 10 posts since the Blitz questioning happened

Poly: "though I'm feeling only marginally worse about you than Blitz because he was still way too defensive about that switch"

I still don't think it was defensive. If someone had said "I have a gut feeling about you" and then voted me, I would ask what prompted that gut read. Just like:

Hugh of Ilia: "When a guy's got a hunch it's best to follow it."

Why did no one ask him what made him feel this "hunch." Getting hung up on Blitz & Via over "gut feelings" while not examining Hugh's equally questionable gut-based RVS vote = wat?

Marth: "Clearly the people sending you emails are the mafia trying to waste their emails and maybe look like they're contributing.

...I was joking but I think its something to consider."

Actually this is a good point, though I don't think Marth is townie for it (it's just a nulltell imo) since this line of reasoning is fairly intuitive since this is the answer that one arrives at whenever they pose the question "well what would the scumteam do with their emails"

Poly: "no I'm not really reading it as scum/scum interaction but I'm scumreading both of you for varying reasons in that exchange"

This pings me as scummy

Not resolving to pick a side but your vote is on Via? If it's not scum-scum interaction but you think both are scum, this is also a pretty plain contradiction

At this point I think both Via and Blitz are slapfighting townies, Marth and SB are null but contributing good points, and Poly is a little scummy

[spoiler=Rapier's first post to kirsche calling for claims, about page 3 to page 5]

Rapier: "And no, I'm not going to vote anyone right now. I don't see a point in doing so, as there is no content at all to pursue."

Well, there's been a large spectacle between Via and Blitz from the last two pages. I think there's definitely something to talk about there? At least I think any observer could judge between Via and Blitz and come to an educated guess as to whether one or both is town/scum?

There's content here and Rapier's dismissal of it feels like an excuse to not have to read it. It's definitely not something to be handwaved as RVS shenanigans, esp. since an email was sent and it was discussed.

Rapier: "I find strange how Marth says he's kidding, then adds "hey, maybe we should think about this". If you consider pondering about it, then you aren't kidding about it."

I actually don't think what Marth said was contradictory or otherwise odd. When he said he was joking, I read it as "well I'm joking that the person who we're talking about (the one who just sent the letter) isn't guaranteed scum or anything" and then I read the "it's something to consider" as "in general mafia would use their emails to appear townie since that's obviously all they can do with them."

I don't agree with Rapier's vote but w/e it's understandable

re: Rapier saying he won't anyone, then voting Marth

This is scummy because it's an attempt to remedy the initial scummy play (refusing to vote) with conciliatory, textbook townie play (actually voting).

If I had been around at the time of this post, I would have voted Rapier.

Refa: "Man, I don't see how Marth's one liner is telling at all. Is that something that he'd only say as scum? If so, why? It's pretty funny that I don't agree with anyone's cases so far. Please understand, dude, mafia sucks."

Refa are you me

Blitz: "I don't get your email Bizz"

Who's Bizz

SB: "Sometimes townies get crackpot theories but why do they out them and then say "this probably isn't right, but it might be..."?"

Isn't this what townies are supposed to do? Theories are all town has so... tonwnies would out them, right...?

I get the feeling that SB is considering/trying to case Marth here but doesn't have enough to go off of

Poly @ Blitz: "So you were just picking at Via's gutread for no real reason? That's arguably worse than being defensive imo, since you're just wasting time. Did you actually get anything from that exchange?"

Feels like a scum post

I do not understand why it would still be relevant to discuss the Via & Blitz exchange here. Poly doesn't explain why Via is now no longer scummier than Blitz, nor has he explained his earlier read of "I don't think they had a scum-scum interaction but I'm still scumreading both."

Marth: "I only consider not voting scummy if you make posts where it looks like you're scumreading people but you're not acting on it."

Sure but even if it's not a scumtell, what do you think of rapier

SB: "Please stop massclaiming in public in an LOC game."

The voice of reason

kirsche: "I should lead because I have the only modconfirmable role in the game."

Scum mayor is a thing though

SB: "Scum mayor pls"

Why is SB not town leader rn

[spoiler=Refa's first large post(s) to Eury's third post, page mid-5 to end of 8]

re: Refa's posts, particularly post #100

probably not even relevant but I've noticed a sharp increase in Refa's use of colloquialisms in referring to others (i.e. "hey man," "bro," "dude") and while it's hard to describe the feeling, it's like... are these terms maybe meant to help in buddying with people? I realize colloquialisms and posting style are much less telling than any other part of content, but it got me thinking esp. b/c of how Junko had started changing his posting style as well (consistently ending every one of his posts with something along the lines of "I g2g now," "I have to go now so sorry for the short post" etc.) in Code Geass mafia where he rolled scum.

tl;dr null tell but going to read Refa more closely I guess. not that that helps since I can basically never actually read refa well

inb4it's just a PR >.>

As for the actual content of Refa's post #100 - his responses are good but I don't see why he votes Marth (assuming "Marthipan" is just a nick for Marth) when the people he's replying to are Blitz, Poly and kirsche, and he doesn't discuss Marth in his replies?

Terrador: "You do realize that claiming mason without somebody to confirm it has virtually no weight, correct?"

I think kirsche's claim is actually a good/trustworthy one from town's POV because it forces him to be held to a level of role accountability. He will need to reveal who his buddies are eventually, and scum!kirsche will either out people who can deny association (thus giving us a confirmed scum lynch) or out his scumbuddies, which offers potentially even more information if we lynch any of them.

I thought about this for a long time and claimed to kirsche earlier today. Mason is just an extremely dangerous fakeclaim for scum who's trying to become town leader.

I suppose this also means that I'm townreading kirsche...? Honestly I just can't see him as scum with this claim.

Terrador: "And before someone says it, yeah, there's 110% the possibility that the mason claimant may be a scumbuddy or a stand-in who believes that mason, or that it may not be a good play for the mason and partner. I get that. But that doesn't change the fact that claiming mason without any evidence proves all of nothing."

Yes, but no definitive proof =/= not extremely trustworthy. Consider if the claimant is a scumbuddy - we could potentially lynch two scum just off of this failed gambit.

Terrador is being very paranoid imo but I don't think he's scum for it.

SB then votes Terrador and I'm basically townreading SB now just off of having thoughts consistent with mine for basically the whole game so far

Via: "also I agree with the Terra suspicion and I'm kinda paranoid he's feamrongering to keep town from organizing itself actually"

This is meta-based but I think that Terrador's play is in line with what I would expect from him as town. In the training filler and P3M as scum, he would always cooperate with town ideas and go out of his way to appear agreeable and open-minded always. In FFTA as town, he was significantly more independent and less automatically trusting, and got frustrated enough in one disagreement to sub out. That his current play is heavily leaning towards the latter makes me feel that he's very likely to be overly paranoid town.

Weapons' Rapier vote is good.

kirsche: "If no masons are dead come D3 then you should start asking questions."

Why D3, what's so special about D3

Eury's not wallposting but people think that this lack of effort is scummy

But she's shown that she's completely capable of posting massive walls even as scum (a la P3M, as might be obvious it's like the one game I have particularly strong memories of lol) so I would consider this a nulltell. Have people scumreading Eury for this really played a game with scum!Eury? :/

Via: "I've sent messages to almost all the people who have posted today."

Can I haz emails too pls

SB: "Also: the obvious solution to Town Leader stuff is just to Mason Via, unless it gets rid of roles."

This is the best idea/10

However Via's probably gonna get NKed now that this idea has been suggested

@Randa's post #142

who is scum

your post is pretty empty on scumreads

Eury: "And I'm trying to keep shit small for easier-reading"

If you have the time/motivation I would request your usual wallposts because I think it's significantly easier to read your alignment based on those. Short posts from Eury are almost... foreign, I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way

Eury: "Bluedoom's had poor ideas + content, and questionable posts. Don't like him."

This one line is not enough justification to vote Marth, esp. from Eury. Randa's follow-up post where he votes Eury is very understandable in light of this.

At this point:

Rapier - scummy

Poly - scum-ish

Blitz - town-ish

Via - town

Terrador - town

SB - literally could not be townier unless someone dayvigs him now and he flips scum, in which case he's probs death miller

Marth - null

Eury - null

[spoiler=page 9 and 10]

kirsche: "You're nowhere close to clear when in a couple of days time when the masons die I will be clear."

What makes you think they'll be dead

@Terrador's post #168

who else is scum, you've been tunneling kirsche

Weapons: "I mean I don't really want to play town leader anyway, so I'm going to avoid claiming unless this really takes off, in which case I might just sub out."

I legit thought this was a scumtell when I read it but no one seems to have reacted the same way so I'm guessing this is a natural reaction given SF's history of there being widely differing preferences of OC and NOC?

Clarification from anyone would be appreciated since this reads much like "it would be very difficult for scum!me to counter a town leader play"

Randa: "Cause I didn't vote Kirsche in the first place due to the Mason claim."

Doesn't this mean that you're townreading him and do actually trust his claim

Via: "If you try to work w/ me and then die and leave everything to me I'm gonna buckle down and cry under the pressure lol"

:( There, there.

Rapier: "Also, I find it strange that Weapons is still pressuring me for some minor thing that I did on page 3. Do you really have no better scumread than "hey that guy said he wouldn't vote but he did, therefore scummy"?"

Reads like scum being frustrated at being caught for what they perceive to be the wrong reasons. Also, referencing less relevant content all the way from page 3 just to address a scumread on you, instead of relevant topics of contention such as Terrador's reaction to kirsche, the implications of Via's confirmed role, Eury's shorter posts... pretty scummy.

Gaius: "Hi I exist. Here goes my first post. I just read 10 straight pages so I apologize if my logic is flawed, reasoning unclear etc. Ask to clarify if needed."

Hi I like your avatar

Gaius' case basically sheeps Terrador's but I don't see anything wrong with it from his explained POV

Randa's earliest content was pretty weak but I think the Eury vote is OK so I'm gonna go with a super concrete and definitive null read on him for now yay

Terrador needs to stop tunneling kirsche, and vice-versa. I think all of the possible arguments and counterarguments for the issue they are contending have been exhausted, and they both need to start scumhunting elsewhere.

##Vote: Rapier

[Paperblade]

I'm reading rn but I want more messages from Bizz

whisper sweet nothings into my ear

[Paperblade]

I wouldn't lynch kirsche but there's no evidence he's mason at all and not just scum playing ballsy to get claims.

Poly, why do you think kirsche is WIFOMing

[Paperblade]

Marth is clearly town why is he being voted

[Zkirsche]

You seem desperate to create organization, but putting information in the wrong hands is worse than not being organized

No it isn't.

@Terra: Those questions are very relevant because they're what you should've asked yourself the moment I claimed mason. Iunno why everyone thinks I'm some kind of ballsy Mafioso when I'm much more likely to just play it safe as scum and I'm only ever hyper aggressive as town or ITP.

W/e I cba to continue this argument. Scum just don't push for town leader ever, and yeah they play conservatively when it comes down to this topic. Town leaders are just that strong.

I could get other masons to claim but I just feel like it shouldn't be necessary so I am reluctant.

@Marth: I am mayor mason leader. I haven't said any more or less in the thread.

What makes you think they'll be dead

Probability.

@Rapier: I was following up on an SB read and there was noone else to really talk about aside from Terra/Randa/Eury who is scum/null/town respectively.

[Percivalé]

yeah but why use "mason leader" tho

if there are already other masons doesn't that just make you a mason? unless you're a recruiter, what makes you specifically the mason leader?

[Baldrick]

@kirsche "I'm town you guys, I'm playing to my town meta!"

IMO you were pretty aggressive in CYOU'RE. I could buy you being ballsy scum.

@green; I don't buy Rapier being conciliatory scum because he got no flak for it before he voted. Do you think even he could flip-flop that much in two minutes? And why he is scum annoyed for being cased for the wrong reasons and not town annoyed for being cased for bad reasons? Confirmation bias IMO.

inb4it's just a PR >.>

What's just a PR, dude?

[Baldrick]

Via i want your "message" inside my "inbox".

[charlie_]

Posting properly on an ipod is too much effort.

Rapier is scummy because he implied that Weapons should've done more when the content that Rapier had issues with wasn't even there when Weapons posted. He even acknowledges that Weapons has talked about a decent number of other players (considering half the game is pretty lacking in content) and just says that it looks like he's trying to fake scumhunting without giving a reason? I feel like the content Weapons has posted so far has been solid so I don't really have an issue with him atm.

Baldrick's entrance doesn't have any glaring content issues but it feels sort of lacking? It reminds me of how I felt about him in CYOU'RE when he subbed in as scum and didn't really say too much.

Marth, I don't get what your issue with me is? If something could go either way alignmentwise and I have nothing else to go on I'm gonna try and make something out of it, so even if you think I have some weak pushes how would I react to the thread differently as town?

I think GP is generally town because I could follow her logic when skimming her walls (rip) and I could see where it was coming from mostly.

Vote is staying where it is.

[Zkirsche]

@via: Basically the mayor + other stuff attached to my role.

@baldrick: In Cy'or2 I made a post like once every 24 hours and I've almost caught up. I'm pursuing my goals more here than I am there which is what I mean by aggressive. It's self-meta but at the same time it isn't because this is unprecedented scum play otherwise. My argument isn't so much "I wouldn't do this as scum" as it is "no one would do this as scum, and there is no precedent for me doing anything close to this as mafia".

GP is not the same GP from code geass so she is scum on meta.

[Paperblade]

Baldrick, what are your thoughts on players other than kirsche?

[Junk]

b/c of how Junko had started changing his posting style as well (consistently ending every one of his posts with something along the lines of "I g2g now," "I have to go now so sorry for the short post" etc.) in Code Geass mafia where he rolled scum.

hey SOME of those were actually legitimate >:(

not playing

Edited March 23, 2015 by Junk

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I'm not at all confident on the case against Rapier. As I understand it, it's mostly due to the combination of posts he made at the bottom of page 3, where he claims he's not going to vote anyone right now, and 2 minutes later he posted his vote for Marth and claimed he "forgot to vote." Seems more like a brainfart than anything particularly malicious.

SB's vote on him seems to be for a different reason, and I disagree with it. Rapier's thoughts wrt Weapons mirror my own. I don't like at all how he's tunneling hard on Rapier, especially considering the remarkably weak case against him. I don't understand how Bluedoom could be his strongest townread either. It just comes off as forced, and I'm not buying it.

As for Kirsche, it's far too early to accept him as town. It would be reckless to just claim everything to him until he was 100% cleared. He said if no masons were revealed by day 3, it would be reasonable to suspect him, but by then the damage would already be done if he was scum. Especially considering he is more or less confirmed to be mayor.

I'm fine with leaving my vote on Weapons for now.

I'll have more later, I just got back and had to catch up on everything. I should be able to check in often throughout today though.

Hey what does everyone think about this post? I have certain thoughts about this post but I want to hear what other people have to say before I share them.

Hey GP, do you have any scum games here/elsewhere?

Gonna go analyze Rapier's defense now.

[ZoesMad]

Ok here are some other things I have to say.

@Green Poet: Gaius too kawaii indeed. On a serious note, why do you feel the need for Hugh's RVS vote to be questioned? It seems like he was just following what Blitz told him to do, which was vote someone randomly. Blitz actually had a response for Via's vote, and that started the whole Blitz being defensive v. scummy argument.

@Weapons: I'm inclined to believe most of Ciraxis' post. I've already stated I think Rapier being attacked was blown out of proportion and I don't think his intent was scum then. I agree with his statement on the Kirsche situation. Weapons, I did miss why he voted you in the first place. Clarification on that would be nice.

@Everyone: How much has flavor from role PM played into the actual setup/outcome of a game? This is more of general question so I can understand SF Mafia better.

[Zkirsche]

The impact of flavour differs each game. ISOs are in the first post.

[Zkirsche]

Also that post was fine weapons I have nothing.