Vaximillian Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Or how about the character who everyone falls in love with- Emmeryn! I see what you did there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeo Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, phineas81707 said: One of the purposes of the Armour team is to put a good initial score forward in Arena Assault. Amelia would be lovely for that. I like how I don't think I've ever stated my armour team and you know what it is straight away. I guess that's an all right move... all things considered, the Alondite's legendary bonus is probably the least valuable thing around. Well, Effie's got nothing special other than being the only blue in consideration. All we need is some Armor mages and a Blue armor to powercreep Effie. Something like a Distant Counter lance or something retarded like if unit is above 50% health then negate 10% of WTD. Edited October 18, 2017 by Zeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Zeo said: Something like a Distant Counter lance Dark Emperor of Archanea- Hardin. Gradivus and a GHB at that. Has the locked Darksphere skill, which is very good even if I don't know what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Dark Emperor of Archanea- Hardin. Gradivus and a GHB at that. Has the locked Darksphere skill, which is very good even if I don't know what it does. Whatever it is, Julius has it innate to his weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Dark Emperor of Archanea- Hardin. Gradivus and a GHB at that. Has the locked Darksphere skill, which is very good even if I don't know what it does. Why not let it keep its same effect from the games? Darksphere, B skill - negates all attacks from opponent on player and enemy phase, unless opponent has Lightsphere skill. (Skill cannot be inherited.) I don''t see what about that could be considered powercreep. Especially not with that Distant Counter Gradivus of his. Edit: @phineas81707 His is close, but I believe it just halves the unit's Strength stat before factoring in Defense. So... pretty much identical in most cases, but some units can actually hurt him without anything specific, if they're powerful enough. Although... Built-in Atk Ploy would've been a perfect translation of Julius's weapon. Now I'm really curious why they gave that effect to Arvis's Valflame instead of saving it for him. Edited October 18, 2017 by DefaultBeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said: Edit: @phineas81707 His is close, but I believe it just halves the unit's Strength stat before factoring in Defense. So... pretty much identical in most cases, but some units can actually hurt him without anything specific, if they're powerful enough. Although... Built-in Atk Ploy would've been a perfect translation of Julius's weapon. Now I'm really curious why they gave that effect to Arvis's Valflame instead of saving it for him. Which is a more appropriate measure of balance for such a skill. I don't imagine the effects of the Darksphere and Lopt to be significantly different. And I'd think Lopt's effect would activate more reliably than a Ploy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, phineas81707 said: Which is a more appropriate measure of balance for such a skill. I don't imagine the effects of the Darksphere and Lopt to be significantly different. And I'd think Lopt's effect would activate more reliably than a Ploy. Nah, you're right, they're more just different in theory than in practice. FE3/FE12 just decided to be even more blatant with the message of "it is pointless to attack this person without the right thing." The problem with that is that there's not really a more accurate way to translate its effect into Heroes, at least not with the skills that are currently in the game. Daggers would be close if they activated before combat (and also targeted Atk instead). There's Armored Blow or a potential new +Def/Res on player phase skill, but they haven't added more weapons with those effects since launch, and they only work on player phase anyway, so they're still not quite accurate either. And regardless, whether it's a good translation or not, it seems like an even worse translation of Valflame's effect. I guess it's meant to be the +10 bonus to Magic, Defense, and Resistance that Valflame gives, but it seems like an... awkward way to work it in. Edited October 18, 2017 by DefaultBeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, DefaultBeep said: Nah, you're right, they're more just different in theory than in practice. FE3/FE12 just decided to be even more blatant with the message of "it is pointless to attack this person without the right thing." The problem with that is that there's not really a more accurate way to translate its effect into Heroes, at least not with the skills that are currently in the game. Daggers would be close if they activated before combat (and also targeted Atk instead). There's Armored Blow or a potential new +Def/Res on player phase skill, but they haven't added more weapons with those effects since launch, and they only work on player phase anyway, so they're still not quite accurate either. And regardless, whether it's a good translation or not, it seems like an even worse translation of Valflame's effect. I guess it's meant to be the +10 bonus to Magic, Defense, and Resistance that Valflame gives, but it seems like an... awkward way to work it in. I imagine the most accurate way would probably be an enhanced version of Steady Stance (for both Def/Res), and could be nullified by the Falchion/Naga weapons or a Sacred Seal of the same effect called the Lightsphere (if they could modify it such that this doesn't also make a Sacred Seal just for dragon effectiveness). Then again, Naga's (and the Binding Blade's) effect itself is Steady Def/Res, so it might need something with a little more kick. Perhaps it works on both phases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, phineas81707 said: I imagine the most accurate way would probably be an enhanced version of Steady Stance (for both Def/Res), and could be nullified by the Falchion/Naga weapons or a Sacred Seal of the same effect called the Lightsphere (if they could modify it such that this doesn't also make a Sacred Seal just for dragon effectiveness). Then again, Naga's (and the Binding Blade's) effect itself is Steady Def/Res, so it might need something with a little more kick. Perhaps it works on both phases? Part of the problem with predicting this is definitely that other weapons already have similar effects. Although I like your idea of making its effect stronger, but also making that effect completely void against certain weapons. Making Naga strong against it in that sense would be a bit odd if it's made a red tome, though not necessarily impossible. They could also potentially make it green instead, since I believe it's considered summoning magic, similar to Naga? Yet it's also technically dark magic, which is normally red? Someone more knowledgeable about how Heroes determines tome colors could better predict what color it would be, I think. Edited October 18, 2017 by DefaultBeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Just now, DefaultBeep said: Part of the problem with predicting this is definitely that other weapons already have similar effects. Although I like your idea of making its effect stronger, but also making it completely ineffective against certain weapons. Making Naga strong against it in that sense would be a bit odd if it's made a red tome, though not necessarily impossible. They could also potentially make it green instead, since I believe it's considered summoning magic, similar to Naga? Yet it's also technically dark magic, which is normally red? Someone more knowledgeable about how Heroes determines tome colors could better predict what color it would be, I think. Loptyr would definitely be red, while Hardin would carry blue. Falchions would be the better innate option on Loptyr, while Naga would be the best to pick to fight Hardin. A little backwards, but that's how the colours fall. Besides, if the Lightsphere Sacred Seal happens to help, you could give it to a blue there. Sure, it's something else for Reiny, but that also means he can't run QP. Choosing which of your units gets the Lightsphere should be an actual decision- and considering most Falchion/Naga users are 5* locked (with Marth and Chrom being 4* pullable and Masked Marth being freely distributed... now and then), it shouldn't be a necessity to bring one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, phineas81707 said: Loptyr would definitely be red, while Hardin would carry blue. Falchions would be the better innate option on Loptyr, while Naga would be the best to pick to fight Hardin. A little backwards, but that's how the colours fall. Besides, if the Lightsphere Sacred Seal happens to help, you could give it to a blue there. Sure, it's something else for Reiny, but that also means he can't run QP. Choosing which of your units gets the Lightsphere should be an actual decision- and considering most Falchion/Naga users are 5* locked (with Marth and Chrom being 4* pullable and Masked Marth being freely distributed... now and then), it shouldn't be a necessity to bring one. My only issue with that is (assuming I understood your meaning correctly), in FE3/FE12, the Falchion has no special properties that make it strong against the Darksphere. The Lightsphere itself has to be equipped, and anyone can equip it and be able to damage Hardin, regardless of any other factors. Loptyr is the reverse, where a specific weapon that can only be used by one unit has to be used to nullify its effects. If they ever do add in the Darksphere and Lightsphere, I think they would work best as their own separate thing, either as skills, seals, or even both. Then the relation between Loptyr and Naga would be its own thing as well, though that still holds the issue with the weapon triangle if Loptyr is made red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, DefaultBeep said: My only issue with that is (assuming I understood your meaning correctly), in FE3/FE12, the Falchion has no special properties that make it strong against the Darksphere. The Lightsphere itself has to be equipped, and anyone can equip it and be able to damage Hardin, regardless of any other factors. Loptyr is the reverse, where a specific weapon that can only be used by one unit has to be used to nullify its effects. If they ever do add in the Darksphere and Lightsphere, I think they would work best as their own separate thing, either as skills, seals, or even both. Then the relation between Loptyr and Naga would be its own thing as well, though that still holds the issue with the weapon triangle if Loptyr is made red. Work best, but my stance is 'two similar yet differently functioning skills would only serve as a hindrance/annoyance'. I don't want to have to have a Darksphere counter and a Lopt counter in my team, even if my Lopt counter is also a Rein counter (I have both Nagas, but both are -Atk, and also not likely to be everywhere). Combining the two allows the mechanic to become simpler and easier to slide into the Arena mechanics. Falchion, admittedly, is mostly because attaching this as a rider to the dragon effectiveness is the easiest method of implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, phineas81707 said: Work best, but my stance is 'two similar yet differently functioning skills would only serve as a hindrance/annoyance'. I don't want to have to have a Darksphere counter and a Lopt counter in my team, even if my Lopt counter is also a Rein counter (I have both Nagas, but both are -Atk, and also not likely to be everywhere). Combining the two allows the mechanic to become simpler and easier to slide into the Arena mechanics. Falchion, admittedly, is mostly because attaching this as a rider to the dragon effectiveness is the easiest method of implementation. I'd be surprised if they ever truly add the Darksphere and Lightsphere in (at least in any way close to their original forms), but I see what you mean. At least with Falchion vs. Loptyr, it could technically be explained by Loptyr summoning a dragon, although Naga does the same as well. I'd be curious to see if/how they decide to handle these kinds of effects in the future, regardless. On another note, now that Arvis is released... I may have to put promoting him at a higher priority than merging Ayra. I adore his voice and art, and I wouldn't be opposed to having more strong 5-star red mages. Hopefully that Tempest Trial comes quick so I can get enough feathers to upgrade him soon. Edit: Oh my goodness, the way he says "What's your gambit?" I apologize to @Vaximillian for any hesitation I had toward promoting him. And when he dies, he calls out for Deirdre and Julia... For as sinister of a guy as he is, that's almost heartbreakingly sweet. Edited October 18, 2017 by DefaultBeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilas Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 @Vaximillian I did it! I beat Squad Assault 4 (accidentally)! I didn't even copy the yorotsruuu yorotsruuu's video that you linked me! Long live Horse Emblem (+ Sakura). The horsies were Brave Lyn, Xander and Reinhardt- exciting team comp I know but I finally did it- I just had to be more aggressive and focus on the southern side more. I don't think I even lasted 7 turns to be honest- reinforcements just stopped coming in after 1 turn (I forgot which turn), so I just defeated the two that was left (a green mage + Amelia) and I managed to finish it! Is it because I finished off Seth early on? (Thank you QR Xander) Now to focus on Arvis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Speaking of Arvis, No regrets. @DefaultBeep @mcsilas @SatsumaFSoysoy @GuiltyLove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Vaximillian said: Speaking of Arvis, No regrets. @DefaultBeep @mcsilas @SatsumaFSoysoy @GuiltyLove I'm about to use him for Def Ploy lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 @DefaultBeep Your new face is too broad, doesn't it hinder you to be effective at doing mole things? It seems that armors get more than just one movement penalty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefaultBeep Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Speaking of Arvis, No regrets. I'm incredibly jealous. If Tailtiu didn't want that Life and Death 3, I could've had a 5-star Arvis myself... I did use the Infernal feathers to promote and fodder Niles for Iceberg, at least. It feels wrong to see that chilling effect when he attacks with fire, but I can't argue with that Res stat of his. Also worth mentioning: I know it was already discussed during the datamine, but the very first castle quote that he gave me was that wonderful "Sigurd had to die" line. Good(?) job on that one, devs. Way to tell everyone that the lord on the new banner is already dead. 5 minutes ago, mampfoid said: Your new face is too broad, doesn't it hinder you to be effective at doing mole things? It seems that armors get more than just one movement penalty... I see no reason why my face shape would hinder me from doing anything, except possibly fitting through small gaps in fences. If you or anyone else takes offense to my award-winning smile, then feel free to send any complaints to my parents and also God. Any movement penalty is worth being an honest, uplifting member of this community.that we call life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mampfoid Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said: [...] I see no reason why my face shape would hinder me from doing anything, except possibly fitting through small gaps in fences. If you or anyone else takes offense to my award-winning smile, then feel free to send any complaints to my parents and also God. Any movement penalty is worth being an honest, uplifting member of this community.that we call life. Not only fences, a mole of this wideness would have to dig a lot to make his tunnels fitting (not speaking of the new statics to be calculated). I take no offense from smiling faces, just thinking always on the practical side of things. In my opinion, Ardens art is a welcome variety in a game where everybody is just too damn pretty. I'm waiting myself for the right stout or goofy new character to change my avatar (my paint skills where not sufficient to make Xander a little fat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Arvis’ sprite is just so red. Wow. His animations are also unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrosion Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 43 minutes ago, Vaximillian said: Speaking of Arvis, <snip> No regrets. @DefaultBeep @mcsilas @SatsumaFSoysoy @GuiltyLove While I'll be joining you in the 5* Arvis club, I suppose it could be said that my priorities were...elsewhere this morning. ' .....What? I like my cute, dragon girls I said as I was hauled off to jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethany81707 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said: While I'll be joining you in the 5* Arvis club, I suppose it could be said that my priorities were...elsewhere this morning.' .....What? I like my cute, dragon girls I said as I was hauled off to jail. Spending blue great badges on promotion... I'll nab myself a 5* Arvis in due time. I'm keyed up about the "Ayra GHB" theory enough to want to save the 20K I have for her first. I'll be training Sigurd and Deirdre this weekend anyway- Arvis only needs the two rarities of Warriors SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilas Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 @Vaximillian Nice, are you going to merge all of him? Or use some for Def Ploy? Definitely going to 5 star him straight away as well- at the very least I'm guessing he'll be a bonus unit for TT (and my main needs a red mage besides Tharja - Sorry Sophia looks like you're in the backburner for a bit since you're so expensive to make). @Tybrosion I actually need to do that to give my Fae and Ninian some zappy breath powers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaid Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Even though I didn't play FE4, I'm going to 5* Arvis since I'm quite lacking in red mages.(It's just Tharja and a terrible -spd S Leo..) He seems like he'll be a good TT helper in the future as well with all those debuffs, and just slap a Recip Aid/Ardent Sacrifice on him for healer memes. At least I'll likely get 3k of my investment back on him this coming TT with that. I'm happy to see some easy Def Ploy fodder, even if I have no use for it right now. I probably won't get around to building an Est in any kind of near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, mcsilas said: @Vaximillian Nice, are you going to merge all of him? Or use some for Def Ploy? I can’t decide right now. One Def Ploy I might give to Est for the memes and everything. Xander and Camus are higher in priority for merging anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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