Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Junkhead]

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

 

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

"Raudhr" is Old Norse for "red". "Blar" is Old Norse for "blue". "Gronn" is Old Norse for "green". "Litr" is Old Norse for "color".

):

[DehNutCase]

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't think the statement "Litrowl turns the unit into Odin" is accurate enough to use as generally as you did because what it does depends entirely on who is using it. For Mae, it patches up her middling Spd stat and makes Desperation actually work on her, not her bulk (though that's a useful side-effect).

• Mae's spread with 2 stacks of Blarowl+ is 35/50/35/20/34. With standard buffs (+3/4/0/2), it becomes 35/53/39/20/36.
• Odin's spread with Blarblade+ is 43/35/32/25/25. With standard buffs, it becomes 43/47/36/25/27.
• Linde's spread with Blarblade+ is 35/48/36/14/27. With standard buffs, it becomes 35/60/40/14/29.

Those spreads do entirely different things. Mae is an anti-red magic tank with exceptional Spd and good Atk that still works well without the need for persistent buffs, but requires more precise positioning. Odin is a mediocre mixed tank with mediocre Atk and good Spd, but entirely relies on field buffs to function. Linde is a glass cannon with exceptional Atk and Spd and can off-tank under-buffed red tomes, but dies spectacularly to a counterattack from anything that isn't red.

 

Also, Delthea's physical bulk is entirely unsalvageable.

Shouldn't you be getting more than 3/4/0/2 if you can devote 2 people to standing next to -owl people? That should at least be 4/4/0/2, 2 Hones and the free seal buff, to reflect that the -owls also got 2 people standing next to them. (Further, I feel like it should be more like 3/4/3/3/ or 4/4/3/3 because getting a unit to stand next to another at the start of turn is a lot different than getting a unit to stand next to another when the other unit is attacking, or at the end of turn, this usually costs a unit-turn to move, which means there's no reason not to rally def/res.)

But, even if we assume your standard buffs, Odin is still nearly as tanky as Mae vs. mages (70 magical bulk versus 71), only a bit slower (39 v. 36), and, admittedly, quite a bit weaker (53 v. 47). If Odin gets more buffs, or -owl gets less people who are somehow positioning perfectly, their stats get more and more in line. -owl with a single person standing, and a single Eirika's buffs, would only be 35/51/37/18/34, which is near identical with Odin's 43/47/36/25/27 in terms of offenses, and a bit worse in terms of defenses.

(The problem, I think, is that you're valuing getting 1 Eirika to stand next to people at start of turn at the same cost as getting 2 people to stand next to someone at the end of turn---in preparation for a enemy phase, or when someone is attacking---it's a lot harder to position 2 people in the middle of a turn, or in preparation for a enemy phase, than at the start of turn alone. Since you can be a bit further from threat squares when you're just doing start of turn buffs, whereas EoT buffs have strict positioning requirements where the EP unit has to be in threat range, while the randoms have to not be in threat range. Middle of a turn is a whole different issue that I'll just chalk under 'far more complicated than start or end of turn.')

Edit: This positioning stuff is why I value Reinhardt and the like absurdly high, since it makes positioning so much easier when you move 50% further than everyone else.

Double Edit: What I meant by -owls turn people into Odin is because -owls, compared to -blades, give up Atk in exchange for basically everything else (except hp). Odin gave up Atk in exchange for basically everything else (including hp). It's actually a pretty good dump stat when you remember that -blades can give up to 16 Atk even for infantry, pity his speed is only a little above average. An excellent defensive speed tier, of course, but just a little bit more and he would've been a doubling nightmare rather than merely 'cannot be doubled, cannot be OHKOd.'

Edited September 3, 2017 by DehNutCase

[DLNarshen]

For all the jokes this community cracks about colorless-hell, I'm finding green-hell to be just as frustrating.  Half the time they never show up, and when they do it's only one.  Currently at 4.25% for CYL Ike. 

[Quintessence]

Wow just had a blessed session on the CYL banner. Got a 4☆ Seth +Spd -Hp, Jagen, Barst, Selena and Fir. Repo for Lyn and Ike, and Fort Cav for Seth whoo!

[mcsilas]

50 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

For all the jokes this community cracks about colorless-hell, I'm finding green-hell to be just as frustrating.  Half the time they never show up, and when they do it's only one.  Currently at 4.25% for CYL Ike. 

I keep getting 4 star Berukas :/

She just seems to love my second account. 3 times in a row!

Granted I love her and was lucky enough to get a 5 star of her in the wyvern banner but enough is enough!

[property of nuvelle]

@Vaximillian I just had a dream where I pulled an Atk+/HP- Tana, the opposite of my current one. We're both hopeless now.

[Vaximillian]

10 minutes ago, KongDude said:

@Vaximillian I just had a dream where I pulled an Atk+/HP- Tana, the opposite of my current one. We're both hopeless now.

Poor us, haunted by visions of those whom we love so dearly and unrequitedly.

[Ice Dragon]

9 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Shouldn't you be getting more than 3/4/0/2 if you can devote 2 people to standing next to -owl people? That should at least be 4/4/0/2, 2 Hones and the free seal buff, to reflect that the -owls also got 2 people standing next to them.

If you are baiting, getting adjacent allies is trivial. If you are attacking, you can reasonably expect at least one adjacent ally.

Furthermore, the buffs don't need to be applied unless they're necessary. One of the nice things about Litrowl is that you know exactly how many stacks you need to take out an enemy and can make adjustments to accommodate.

 

9 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

But, even if we assume your standard buffs, Odin is still nearly as tanky as Mae vs. mages (70 magical bulk versus 71), only a bit slower (39 v. 36)

Mae's bulk is in Res, though, while Odin's is in HP. The difference that this makes is that Mae can hold out multiple rounds of combat more easily and gets greater benefit from fortification tiles.

[Birdy]

53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you are baiting, getting adjacent allies is trivial. If you are attacking, you can reasonably expect at least one adjacent ally.

Depends, there are plenty of maps where at most you can have two allies adjacent and that's assuming they're lined up perfectly so that othet enemies can't hit them, which really isn't always the case. For example, the vulcano map and the castle map.

[Junkhead]

11 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

 

[Alkaid]

5 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

For all the jokes this community cracks about colorless-hell, I'm finding green-hell to be just as frustrating.  Half the time they never show up, and when they do it's only one.  Currently at 4.25% for CYL Ike. 

Same here only with blue. S Robin, S Corrin were both hell to pull for, and CYL Lucina's looking to be similarly bad. Nearly every blue is a junk 3* Robin or Oboro, and I rarely get more than 1-2 blue orbs a session on top of it. 3.75% right now and not even any fodder or passable 4*'s to show for it.

[Quintessence]

3 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Poor us, haunted by visions of those whom we love so dearly and unrequitedly.

I think I had a dream weeks or months ago, in which I pulled an Ike on heroes. CYL made it true.

[eclipse]

12 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Edit: Generic 4* without +level Odin is merely alright. His bulk and speed are still pretty okay---above average even for 5*s---but his offenses leave much to be desired, unless he has a good A-slot to replace the useless Defiant Atk and has good buff support. (at least 3/4/4/2, preferably 4/4/3/3 or better.)

I really like having +14 Atk at my disposal, though.  Odin's also tanky enough to bait on enemy phase, then blast the offender on player phase.

11 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

Nope.  Have fun.

[Stephen the Great]

1 hour ago, Soul~! said:

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

Not I. Enjoy yourself.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Soul~! said:

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

Depends, if it's Hana, knock yourself out.  If it's Jaffar or Minerva, just promote a Hana instead.

[Cute Chao]

Ahhh, my little Subaki is all grown up. I raised him from a neutral little 2* and now he's a 5* and doing as well as can be expected ^.^ 

It's a nice feeling to raise one all the way from 2*. He's helped me so much with completing the flier quests before other units came along (although I still primarily use him, Narcian and Palla, who are still yet to be 5*'red). He helped me complete the first ever ones as a 3* unit, then did well as a 4*, and now he's blasting through them as a 5* :D 

Palla does nicely, too. I just wish there were more red flying units to choose from, since I have a whole range of lance units and axe units, plus my one tome unit, but only one red who seems to be any good. I have Caeda, but I've really struggled even levelling her, so I'm not sure if I'd get much use out of her... And I'm pretty sure they are the only two red flying units, although I could be wrong? 

[Arcanite]

13 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Is anyone going to talk me out of LD3-foddering someone to feed my -Atk Charlotte (when she already has Fury > Brave).

I wish I saw this

Next time you do stuff like this, can you like, say something?

[Junkhead]

13 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Depends, if it's Hana, knock yourself out.  If it's Jaffar or Minerva, just promote a Hana instead.

I'm like 19k feathers short after Clarisse but I think I can do it by next week if I step it up.

10 minutes ago, Astolfo! said:

Next time you do stuff like this, can you like, say something?

But I didn't, hence why.

Unless you mean my current Brave+Fury CharChar.

[r_n]

8 hours ago, DLNarshen said:

For all the jokes this community cracks about colorless-hell, I'm finding green-hell to be just as frustrating.  Half the time they never show up, and when they do it's only one.  Currently at 4.25% for CYL Ike. 

Colorless hell is constantly seeing colorless orbs and getting nothing but dozens of trash

Green hell is rarely seeing it and getting Bartre when you do

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

I really like having +14 Atk at my disposal, though.  Odin's also tanky enough to bait on enemy phase, then blast the offender on player phase.

Problem is that it's more like +6 attack, since you can get 8 of it from a Hone Atk regardless. And, well, if all you need is +6 player phase attack... DB 3 does that, without needing you at half hp.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you are baiting, getting adjacent allies is trivial. If you are attacking, you can reasonably expect at least one adjacent ally.

Furthermore, the buffs don't need to be applied unless they're necessary. One of the nice things about Litrowl is that you know exactly how many stacks you need to take out an enemy and can make adjustments to accommodate.

That's like saying, if you're using Odin, getting a rally def/res (assuming you have Hone Speed and Atk already) is trivial, you can reasonably expect at least 0/4/3/3, probably 3/4/3/3 or better. I don't know how you position people, but when I'm using 2 move people, if I want a spur to activate, I need to move the spur unit first, costing that unit's turn (which is identical to using a rally, since you use up someone else's turn anyway).

And it's not like Odin needs the rally def/res unless he actually needs it to kill someone or tank something, just like -owls, you don't need to overbuff him for no reason. Hone speed is +4 Atk, +4 Speed for him, which tends to be enough to ORKO the majority of his targets, assuming he's running L&D.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Mae's bulk is in Res, though, while Odin's is in HP. The difference that this makes is that Mae can hold out multiple rounds of combat more easily and gets greater benefit from fortification tiles.

Not really, Odin's Res is only 5 less than Mae's. This means that for the first combat, Odin has more bulk (8 more hp, 5 less res, so 3 more bulk), for the second, they have comparable (3 more hp, 5 less res, so 2 less bulk), and only for 3rd and more does Mae gain a clear lead. This is ignoring the fact that Odin can panic ploy to reduce incoming damage even further, since Henry's the only person with enough hp to reliably avoid Odin's panic ploy. (Merric and Boey both have equal hp to Odin, but their fairly rare and nothing a hp seal can't cover anyway.)

How many times do you get to tank with someone more than once in an arena match or the like, anyway? Unless you have heavy advantage (TA-3 vs. advantage unit, or correct damage type vs. advantage unit), you're pretty much spent after one combat. B!Ike is neat because he can Aether up most of his damage, and I guess certain unit types can stack wards until they're indestructible, but they're the exceptions rather than the rule.

(Of course, if -owl activates Mae's magical bulk gets to the point where they're comparable even in the first combat, and far better past the second, but I still feel like if owl gets multiple people standing next to him Odin should be getting all of his stats buffed.)

[silverserpent]

1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

Palla does nicely, too. I just wish there were more red flying units to choose from, since I have a whole range of lance units and axe units, plus my one tome unit, but only one red who seems to be any good. I have Caeda, but I've really struggled even levelling her, so I'm not sure if I'd get much use out of her... And I'm pretty sure they are the only two red flying units, although I could be wrong? 

Palla is a very good unit for flying teams. With any luck, the next red flier will be a red tome ;)

[Rezzy]

4 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

Palla is a very good unit for flying teams. With any luck, the next red flier will be a red tome ;)

Palla benefits from being the only decent Red Flier out of two possible and having a good skill set that doesn't require a ton of SI.

[Poimagic]

9 minutes ago, silverserpent said:

Palla is a very good unit for flying teams. With any luck, the next red flier will be a red tome ;)

On the topic of flier emblem, a guy made a video on YouTube, and made a Gronanraven Camilla and Ruby Sword Palla that were made to Counter CYL Lyn and CYL Ike respectively.

[Othin]

I've had great success with Palla since upgrading her, but I do wish there were more options for red fliers. I don't particularly want to upgrade Caeda, but I'd like to have alternatives, such as for forming multiple flier teams for one multi-map challenge or having someone to take over when Palla inevitably caps HM.

Similar situation with green cavalry, although not quite as bad. I don't have Titania and I don't expect much out of Gunter, so I've had to stick to Cecilia and Frederick. Cecilia is great but she's capped HM, while Frederick is kind of underperforming and I don't want to dump as many feathers as it'd take to give him the skills he really wants. It's been getting feasible to make non-green cavalry teams, though, especially now that I have Lyn.

[Poimagic]

14 minutes ago, Othin said:

I've had great success with Palla since upgrading her, but I do wish there were more options for red fliers. I don't particularly want to upgrade Caeda, but I'd like to have alternatives, such as for forming multiple flier teams for one multi-map challenge or having someone to take over when Palla inevitably caps HM.

Well, Aversa, Elincia, Glen, and Syrene will probably be Red fliers and all will probably add a lot to the table. Aversa would add our red tome flier, Elincia would probably have a legendary brave sword, Glen would probably have a silver sword at start, and Syrene would be Syrene

Edited September 3, 2017 by Poimagic