Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Alexmender]

12 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Yeah, the subreddit takes everything out of proportion (as usual). It is drowning in salt right now. Nothing to do there for at least a week. Also, people are dumb, no surprises here.

I expected them to be (rightfully) salty but it really gets annoying how much they exaggerate this. Oh well, maybe they'll chill after the TT is over

Just now, Zeo said:

Here's the deal though... will everyone chill if Ayra is made a *4 unit when the banner's over?

I doubt it (although her going down to 4* seems unlikely at best). The only thing to do here is wait until everyone finishes venting their rage. With luck the spiteful people will be the minority at the end of this. What's staying for sure is that everyone's going to be wary of future banners after this whole fiasco.

[LuxSpes]

39 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said:

Agreed, I don't think it's likely anymore. Although someone else brought up earlier that even if someone already got her to +10, she can always be used for SI, especially if Swift Sparrow is her 4-star level 3 skill.

I could see it going either way. Unfortunately, only IS really has access to that information, so only they know what's making people spend more money right now.

I tried to think of a 5* exclusive unit that would frustrate me if they were given away for free after I whaled to +10 them and I can't think of a lot beside the some healers and Tiki!Y that don't offer something SI-wise. And Ayra is definitely a good skill fodder option if you have her at +10.

I guess whether we see that type of move again any time soon should be the closest thing we get to an answer regarding how the entire player base took their latest stunt.

17 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Here's the deal though... will everyone chill if Ayra is made a *4 unit when the banner's over?

I personally think the damage is done, no matter how available she ends up being. My and most of people's problem with Ayra isn't that she's a 5* exclusive unit instead of a 4*  or free one, it's that IS treated her addition to the game differently than any other new units and it just comes across as a slimy cash grab attempt. That wouldn't change even if she was added to the 3-4* pool and to the daily hero battle rotation.

Edited October 21, 2017 by LuxSpes

[Zeo]

11 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

People are not mad because she is not free.

No. 

11 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

People are mad because she got dropped unexpectedly and unannounced mere three days after the expected and announced banner, along with two old units on her own banner, which breaks all “established” tendencies observed over eight months.

I definitely agree with that, but for everyone angry about that there's people angry that she's not free, which they expected after Clive and BK were both free and revealed under the same circumstances. There's a lot of entitlement there, but it can also be argued that some of those people were following trends as well.

That being said. Even I'm salty and I probably won't be pulling for her because I don't even want Eldigan and him showing up and Eliwood'ing my Lyn would just piss me off and I'd rather save for Edward or the next big thing. *4 Ayra is unlikely but that also adds to the issue of the bloated *5 pool and the ridiculous amount of units that shouldn't be at *5 Rarity at all.

...Like Clair. WHO. WANTS. CLAIR?!

@LuxSpes This... I actually agree with. It's the principal more than the unit itself, and I have no counter. Even if she's added to the pool it won't change the impact this incident made, and people will be looking differently at the next trailer and not knowing what to expect. That's not a good thing.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Zeo

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Zeo said:

...Like Clair. WHO. WANTS. CLAIR?!

Ilyana: Eclair? Where?!

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Zeo said:

No. 

Let me rephrase that.

Much fewer people are mad because of her not being free than whose who are mad because of the precedent with her banner.

[Kaden]

38 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

That's about ALL it's good for though. Arvis only has 33 base HP, so he could very easily hit Desperation or Vantage range, or better yet give it a battle or two and he can trigger Escape Route or WoM on an ally. But he doesn't have a reason to want to heal off Fury damage. Most units don't, in fact most units rely on Fury damage to begin triggering their skills.

I can only see it being any good in Tempest Trials or Chain Challenges, where he has to last more than just one battle in one sitting. Or maps that have Reinforcements I suppose, but people can still cheese those out in Player Phase 1.

Either way, it really isn't Renewal EX. It's just... Renewal 4. And Renewal isn't that much of a necessity when a single battle can last about 2 or 3 turns at most, counting the first turn where everyone is just getting close to each other. He'd probably fare better with Swordbreaker since he already survives hits from most mages and can reliably Sigurd the important Axe users. Or Bowbreaker just to screw with Bridelia... I dunno, it just doesn't seem useful in Arena play. It'll be good in Tempest Trials definitely.

And there's nothing wrong with that? In general, Renewal gets paired with Fury to mitigate its recoil which Recover Ring does better while Falchion enhances since they would be healing ever other and every third turn or get 20 HP at the start of a (new) map. As someone who cares more about PvE content than PvP content and someone who was deprived of a good red mage, especially an anti-high defense, low resistance green mage, Arvis having high sustain and being able to use Fury without much of a drawback to improve his stats all around, especially having even better resistance is really helpful to me. Bonus points for it making his ability to use Valflame and his default Def Ploy even better.

MrSmokestack already addressed it, but Arvis isn't really an offensive mage; he's more of a defensive support unit. 34/31 offenses isn't as good as Liliana's 37/25 or Sanaki's 37/24 given they can be +Atk to have 40 base attack. Although he's the only cavalry mage, Leo's 29/22 offenses is probably better than Arvis's as sad as that is because of cavalry buffs and -blade tomes. And then there's Celica (32/33), Katarina (32/34), and Tharja (32/34). For that matter, we still don't have a red mage with +35 neutral speed or neutral 35/35 offenses.

Fury, Renewal builds are good if you want to abuse a unit's high bulk. Alm, Arvis, Ayra, Camilla, Lucina, actual Marth, masked Marth, summer F!Robin, and Selena come to mind. In some cases, they still retain their good player phase capabilities. Case in point: Ayra who has +Spd, -Res Selena's bulk, but roughly Lucina's offenses. This does not go into her personal sword or Regnal Astra or that her Ignis would be able to charge fairly quickly and do as much damage as Selena's Ignis.

I refer to it as "EX" out reference to fighting games calling moves or modes in the case of Dissidia that use meter as EX specials e.g. EX Hadoken is different from light, medium, and heavy Hadoken. Renewal EX and Renewal 4 is essentially the same, but I just call it that way like how I refer to Assassin's Bow's effect as Daggerbreaker EX instead of Daggerbreaker 4 or whatever.

[Zeo]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Let me rephrase that.

Much fewer people are mad because of her not being free than whose who are mad because of the precedent with her banner.

That, I agree with.

[Vaximillian]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ilyana: Eclair? Where?!

Damn I want Ilyana in this game. And Calill. I want Calill mote characterwise (the woman is pure style; and those legs don’t hurt too), and Ilyana gameplaywise (I still lack a blue infantry mage that is not a –Atk Odin).

5 minutes ago, Zeo said:

That, I agree with.

I thought when someone says “all people do this or that”, it automatically means they are making a hyperbole and actually saying “more people do this or that than those who don’t”.

Okay then, I’ll have to be clearer with my statements.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Vaximillian

[Rezzy]

I'm more mad about the blatant power creep of Ayra.  She really didn't need a BST bonus on top of an OP Prf weapon and a personal special skill.

[Kaden]

4 minutes ago, Zeo said:

...Like Clair. WHO. WANTS. CLAIR?!

Me? Speedy mage tank because why not. It's not like Florina shouldn't have been a speedy mage tank... Stupid fluffy pegasus knight only having 31 speed with a speed boon. That and only having summoned two -Atk and one -Spd Clairs makes me want a decent Clair as compensation. Also, she's 4* to 5* summonable. All three of my Clairs were summoned as 4*.

[bethany81707]

10 minutes ago, Zeo said:

...Like Clair. WHO. WANTS. CLAIR?!

...I'm guessing I'm an outlier?

[Zeo]

6 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I thought when someone says “all people do this or that”, it automatically means they are exaggerating and actually saying “more people do this or that than those who don’t”.

Okay then, I’ll have to be clearer with my statements.

This feels extremely passive aggressive to me, but I'm going to ignore that.

No, way too many people are stupid or say stupid things or make generalizations like a certain group of people in society that I'm going to avoid mentioning. Unfortunately we're in a time where I can't assume people are exaggerating because too many idiotic things come out of people's mouths on the regular.

@Kaden I have 5 *4 Clairs and I'm trying to decide what to do with them, she won't leave me alone.

@phineas81707 Her spread simply does nothing for me. I'm partial to physical tanks or hyper offense units. Magical tank pegs have never been a thing for me. I raised Farina in FE7. She was just better than her sisters, and she could take a real hit.

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Zeo

[Alexmender]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

I'm more mad about the blatant power creep of Ayra.  She really didn't need a BST bonus on top of an OP Prf weapon and a personal special skill.

That I agree with. I can make a million excuses for Sigurd (and they are excuses at the end of the day) but Ayra has little reasons for that treatment. If anything the extra defenses feel overkill on her, reduce her HP by 2 and her defense by 3 and she's still a monster without the need of extra BST If that's still powercreep or not is another issue.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Damn I want Ilyana in this game. And Calill. I want Calill mote characterwise (the woman is pure style; and those legs don’t hurt too), and Ilyana gameplaywise (I still lack a blue infantry mage that is not a –Atk Odin).

You'll have to settle with Tailtiu for now, she who Ilyana used as her base design. The nice thing about the Kirby Branded is that she gets mega availability by RD standards, maybe that'll count for something. She is also the only player unit who can use Rexbolt, and that looks gooooood.

Calill is brilliant too.

[Kaden]

4 minutes ago, Zeo said:

@Kaden I have 5 *4 Clairs and I'm trying to decide what to do with them, she won't leave me alone.

Dump Hit and Run on melee Braves? Spur Spd 2 on whoever? Or just send her home?

[LuxSpes]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

I'm more mad about the blatant power creep of Ayra.  She really didn't need a BST bonus on top of an OP Prf weapon and a personal special skill.

I've been harping on how problematic them sneaking sneaking Ayra on a banner with two 8 months old units three days after they released the latest batch of new hero was, but I think her BST is as problematic.

I have a problem with her arbitrarily having CYL growth boost, a CYL-worthy weapon and an extremely strong exclusive special, but her also randomly getting 1 more BST at level 1 is also quite scary. Beyond showing they were ready to sneak a unit in the name of greed, they also showed they were ready to break the BST rules that had been in place since the start of the game.

What's stopping them from releasing units with higher and higher level 1 BST now that there's a precedent for going over the limit?  Admittedly, we probably won't see a unit with 10 more BST at level 1 for a while, but that there were ready to do something like this not even 1 year into the game's life is kind of scary for the future of the game.

This whole thing is just a mess.

 

[Vaximillian]

7 minutes ago, Zeo said:

This feels extremely passive aggressive to me, but I'm going to ignore that.

No, way too many people are stupid or say stupid things or make generalizations like a certain group of people in society that I'm going to avoid mentioning. 

Sorry if I sounded passive aggressive, that was not my intention at all. Intention doesn’t read well in the written media.

But we here are relatively reasonable to avoid doing such things.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You'll have to settle with Tailtiu for now, she who Ilyana used as her base design. 

Calill is brilliant too.

Settle with Tailtiu, they say. Like I have a chance to pull her, I say.

Calill is a first-class mage.

[Rezzy]

4 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

That I agree with. I can make a million excuses for Sigurd (and they are excuses at the end of the day) but Ayra has little reasons for that treatment. If anything the extra defenses feel overkill on her, reduce her HP by 2 and her defense by 3 and she's still a monster without the need of extra BST If that's still powercreep or not is another issue.

Yes, she still would have been a great unit if not top tier.  Extra BST just makes them harder to counter and makes running an older unit objectively weaker in just about every way.

Bridelia had optimized offensive stats, but had the defenses of a wet paper towel.  If she got a 5 Def or Res point bump on top of that, it's taking away her drawback and just making her OP for no reason.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

Calill is a first-class mage.

She says that, but she's a Sage. A little bit of modesty, that is admirable. A first class mage, a teacher of magic and etiquette, a psychiatrist, mother, and fashionista. She's one very well rounded and successful woman.

[Arcanite]

7 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I'm more mad about the blatant power creep of Ayra.  She really didn't need a BST bonus on top of an OP Prf weapon and a personal special skill.

The default argument is "heh welcome to gacha"

Perhaps.... that is true

I see nothing wrong with it. Ayra may be REALLY good, but when you look at her stats it kinda just feels like they just gave her 5 extra Def

She still dies to Rein, and LITERALLY any other lance that's thicc enough to take a hit. As well as any blarblade blues you have. I guess killing her isnt the issue, and it's more how filthy she is compared to other player phase swords... not to mention neutral speed can get her to 43 with a speed 3 seal

AND Phantom speed also works with her weapon too LOL

I am not going to get angry until we hear a reason for this, assuming the reason is a bad one

[bethany81707]

13 minutes ago, Zeo said:

@phineas81707 Her spread simply does nothing for me. I'm partial to physical tanks or hyper offense units. Magical tank pegs have never been a thing for me. I raised Farina in FE7. She was just better than her sisters, and she could take a real hit.

Magical hits are real hits too.

Admittedly, my pegasus bias is borne from mainline FE, where pegasi just dodge everything, but my Clair's put in... ahaha I can't even say that.

Still, someone on Reddit made a mockup Ardent Sacrifice banner with Florina, Rebecca and Micaiah, and I've got to admit I'd be the only person who'd want Florina out of it. Even with a 4* +10 (it'll bother me that I don't have her 5* 40 in the Catalog).

[Mackc2]

Ayra really concerns me not because of her particularly but the mindset she shows, they where willing to cut down a banner to 3 to release her in a scummy way (They have never put a new unit with old units before) but they also broke the BST rules for her and gave her non inheritable skills, they have done it once now and there is nothing to stop them doing it again and that scares me because I don't want the units I love to become useless

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

The default argument is "heh welcome to gacha"

It is called "gacha" as in "Gacha by the Orbs. And hopefully we've gacha bank account."

[Rezzy]

7 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

The default argument is "heh welcome to gacha"

Perhaps.... that is true

I see nothing wrong with it. Ayra may be REALLY good, but when you look at her stats it kinda just feels like they just gave her 5 extra Def

She still dies to Rein, and LITERALLY any other lance that's thicc enough to take a hit. As well as any blarblade blues you have. I guess killing her isnt the issue, and it's more how filthy she is compared to other player phase swords... not to mention neutral speed can get her to 43 with a speed 3 seal

AND Phantom speed also works with her weapon too LOL

I am not going to get angry until we hear a reason for this, assuming the reason is a bad one

FEH had been pretty fair and consistant until now.  You want to keep your customers happy so they keep coming back.  I won't keep supporting it, if it becomes pay to win.

Also, dying when you're at WTD is what should happen, but hyper offensive units should have a lower defensive spread that makes them lose out on neutral as well.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Rezzy

[Xenomata]

 

Spoiler

58 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

34 Atk and no all-counter is not Vantage material. 31 Spd is not Desperation material.

Wings of Mercy and Escape Route are tech options and mostly optional. It’s not like he needs those skills on his team to do his job.

Valflame Arvis likes Fury since the extra stat boosts prop up his defenses to avoid being one-shot, and they increase the threshold for your Ploy skills. You could go all the way with something like Raudhrblade and LaD but Tharja exists for that already.

Friendly reminder that it heals at the start of every single map, and the heal at the start of every turn makes strategies that rely on pseudo-healing more viable, since you don’t need to slow down to get more mileage out of Renewal EX. Arvis also gets +10 HP as a bonus unit which essentially gives him 43 HP Reciprocal Aids, which while not high are still potent for how quickly he can pump them out.

Arvis prefers to debuff his enemies and offer offensive and healing support to his allies. His Res and the ability to Ploy three stats make him pretty flexible, and he has alright base Atk to put a dent in things.

Don’t make Arvis into something he’s not. He is not a defensive check nor an offensive powerhouse.

Bad examples of alternate skills, but that doesn't change how RR isn't useful in Arena. The battle lasts anywhere from 4-6 turns if the map allows it, and the best units in the game (ergo the only units in Arena)fall into one of a few categories.

• Brave weapon user, typically having at least 50 attack on player phase and doesn't take damage unless on enemy phase.
• One-hit nuke, so they don't get hit on anything but enemy phase.
• Vantage exploiter, staying in Vantage range and one-hitting most anyone who attacks them.
• Desperation fighter, usually Bladetome users, using their speed and Desperation 3 to nuke the enemy before they can attack.
• Tanks, sporting Quick Riposte 2 or 3 and meant to wall the enemy and return with charged-up Ignis or Bonfire or whatever. Usually overlaps with Vantage-r.

Out of all of the above, you are either NOT taking damage or want to remain in a certain Hp threshold and don't want to be healed back up. And if you want a healer you either want Reciprocal Aid, which Arvis does horribly, or an actual healer who can heal off all the damage at once. Besides those, it's not even that expensive a skill. Actual Renewal costs more than RR, so you'd have more benefit running Renewal over RR if you cared so much.

Even in TT Arvis is outclassed by Falchion Healers since they recover 20 hp at match start, so they can just throw out a massive heal before one map ends and get back to a decent HP threshold next map. He's still good at that though, I'm not sure I'm getting across that I'm saying RR is useless in the quick 3-5 round battles and not in multi-battle chains.

Arvis can still deal damage. Fury3 and Valflame put him at 51 attack, which technically becomes 55 on any unlucky cardinal direction enemies. Heck he can run Windsweep3 or Watersweep3 with Phantom Speed and act as an extra attack for those units who barely survive and also have DC Vantage.

 

...and on the topic of Ayra, I'm more concerned they are making more and more units who are less based on their original games and more made for the meta from start,

Edited October 21, 2017 by Xenomata