Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this! (Please read before posting)

[Lushen]

Elise can also learn live to serve 3.  You only have Wrys listed.

[MrSmokestack]

20 hours ago, Lushen said:

Elise can also learn live to serve 3.  You only have Wrys listed.

I was about to say she was 5* exclusive until I remembered Live to Serve is 5* exclusive in general. Thanks for catching that, I'll fix it.

 

EDIT: Updated the text file accordingly.

Edited April 3, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Ropeburn]

Hey guys, kind of a a loss with what to do with my Catria. I wound up with two 5* versions of her in my quest for a good Cordelia. (Spoiler: Didn't get her, and got three 5* Subaki's) I've heard a lot of people say she's fine with her current setup, but I need a good Lancer with killing potential, plus mine is -HP, so she gets worn down quickly. Any ideas?

Here are some ideas I was tossing around:

Fury/Desperation/Threaten SPD  (This kills Nowi with a +3 Defense Passive)

or

Darting Blow/Desperation/Threaten Defense (This outspeeds base 35's for a double)

Edited April 3, 2017 by Ropeburn

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 hour ago, Ropeburn said:

Hey guys, kind of a a loss with what to do with my Catria. I wound up with two 5* versions of her in my quest for a good Cordelia. (Spoiler: Didn't get her, and got three 5* Subaki's) I've heard a lot of people say she's fine with her current setup, but I need a good Lancer with killing potential, plus mine is -HP, so she gets worn down quickly. Any ideas?

Here are some ideas I was tossing around:

Fury/Desperation/Threaten SPD  (This kills Nowi with a +3 Defense Passive)

or

Darting Blow/Desperation/Threaten Defense (This outspeeds base 35's for a double)

I'd rather go with Darting Blow to get the ORKO on neutral speed Ryoma, Eirika, and Tharja, which are important threats that you wouldn't double otherwise. 

[Posaydal]

On 31/03/2017 at 11:36 PM, MrSmokestack said:

With Life and Death equipped, Minerva still hits 35 speed at -Spd, although her niche revolves around being a flying green with high offenses on both ends that can even tank an arrow from full health with Sacred Cowl. Who else is on your team? If you have archers covered, you can still get some good use out of her by passing Moonbow from Odin or Palla, as she will always proc it on a counterattack with Hauteclere lowering the CD to 1

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

At the moment I'm going to be making a new team for her, though I will probably put Selena on the team for this season's arena as I have her in 5-star among the bonus heroes. With that said, it means I can pretty much build a team around her, with a Selena taking the red sword slot (I have a Ryoma at 40 who can drop in if I really need to). 5-star Effie is also available.

Also, any recommended B skill for Minerva?

Edited April 4, 2017 by Posaydal

[ruruo]

Any ideas for salvaging Navarre? 

[MaskedAmpharos]

2 minutes ago, komasa said:

Any ideas for salvaging Navarre? 

Have his 5* level 40 stats been recorded yet?

[MrSmokestack]

12 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Have his 5* level 40 stats been recorded yet?

Yes, they were datamined by /u/barthen on reddit a few weeks ago.

 

EDIT: He's basically a worse Lyn, sadly. He shares the same base attack and speed as Lyn, 28 Atk and 37 Spd, but of course is stuck with the weaker weapon while having ever so slightly more HP and Resistance, which are irrelevant leads. 37 Spd is decent with Desperation, but to take advantage of it you would need a Brave Sword as well as Life and Death 3 to offset the loss in Spd.

Had Navarre been released earlier, he might have been considered decent, but now with skill inheritance there is barely anything he can do that someone else does better. His skills are good to pass to other units, at least.

Edited April 4, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[ruruo]

5 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Have his 5* level 40 stats been recorded yet?

HP 42 l Atk 32* l Spd 37 l Def 23 l Res 28

*without the Killing Edge+, 39 with it.  

That's according to the datamine mentioned by @MrSmokestack by /u/barthen

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, komasa said:

HP 42 l Atk 32* l Spd 37 l Def 23 l Res 28

*without the Killing Edge+, 39 with it.  

That's according to the datamine mentioned by @MrSmokestack by /u/barthen

He has 28 Atk. Killing Edge+ has 11 Mt. I edited my post so check it again, apologies for the rushed reply.

[MaskedAmpharos]

Alright so, comparing neutral stats, he's literally just a slightly-worse Lon'qu with better res. 

• 3 less HP, 1 less Atk, 2 less Spd, 1 more def, 6 more res. 
• Yikes.

Honestly, my answer is really just "run with whatever set Lon'qu runs with usually" unless the set requires Lon'qu to be +Spd (like a Brave Desperation set) in which case RIP Navarre. 

I really wish they at least gave him some kind of unique weapon or skill, but at present I don't see much that sets him apart from other swordsmen, which is a damn shame because I quite like his design. 

[ruruo]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

He has 28 Atk. Killing Edge+ has 11 Mt. I edited my post so check it again, apologies for the rushed reply.

Ah sorry, my bad, miss read the Mt for normal Killing Edge - that really sucks his Str is so low.  Thank you for the comment and reply. it's so annoying he's so mediocre. I've been looking forward to his GH battle since it was announced as well ._. 

 

2 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Alright so, comparing neutral stats, he's literally just a slightly-worse Lon'qu with better res. 

• 3 less HP, 1 less Atk, 2 less Spd, 1 more def, 6 more res. 
• Yikes.

Honestly, my answer is really just "run with whatever set Lon'qu runs with usually" unless the set requires Lon'qu to be +Spd (like a Brave Desperation set) in which case RIP Navarre. 

I really wish they at least gave him some kind of unique weapon or skill, but at present I don't see much that sets him apart from other swordsmen, which is a damn shame because I quite like his design. 

Yikes indeed. I figured it was going to be bad, but didn't think it would be this bad. Thank you for adding to this. Agreed I wish he got something unique too. It's so nice winning the Grand Heroes making it such a bummer not being able to use them, or to need to reduce them to inheritance fodder. 

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Yes, they were datamined by /u/barthen on reddit a few weeks ago.

1. "Hacked" not "datamined". Whether or not your client or save is hacked, you don't datamine by playing the game. Otherwise, all of the stuff in my research thread would be considered datamining, which it clearly shouldn't be.
2. His Navarre is not neutral nature. If the wiki is to be trusted, and I do trust it this time, barthen's Navarre is [-Atk, +Res].

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

1. "Hacked" not "datamined". Whether or not your client or save is hacked, you don't datamine by playing the game. Otherwise, all of the stuff in my research thread would be considered datamining, which it clearly shouldn't be.
2. His Navarre is not neutral nature. If the wiki is to be trusted, and I do trust it this time, barthen's Navarre is [-Atk, +Res].

This is news to me.

I'll wait until further confirmation, but I apologize for the error if so.

[MaskedAmpharos]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

1. "Hacked" not "datamined". Whether or not your client or save is hacked, you don't datamine by playing the game. Otherwise, all of the stuff in my research thread would be considered datamining, which it clearly shouldn't be.
2. His Navarre is not neutral nature. If the wiki is to be trusted, and I do trust it this time, barthen's Navarre is [-Atk, +Res].

So his current base Atk and Res would be 31 and 25 respectively? I suppose that's better (if we're comparing him to Lon'qu still, that's 2 more attack instead of 1 less), but I'm still not sure what to do with him.

@Ice Dragon do you have any thoughts on how Navarre could potentially carve out his own niche that I'm overlooking?

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

So his current base Atk and Res would be 31 and 25 respectively? I suppose that's better (if we're comparing him to Lon'qu still, that's 2 more attack instead of 1 less), but I'm still not sure what to do with him.

@Ice Dragon do you have any thoughts on how Navarre could potentially carve out his own niche that I'm overlooking?

As best as I can tell, he's basically just a Lon'qu with 1 less Atk and 2 less Spd (assuming [+Atk, -Res] on Lon'qu) and a lot more Res.

You're basically going to build him with a similar build as any other high-Spd, low-Atk character, which I assume these days is a Killing Edge+ or Wo Dao+ with an offensive in-battle special skill.

[Kiran]

I would personally trade his killing edge for wo dao. Then he's basically a slightly more hp, better attack, but more fragile Lyn. 

[DehNutCase]

4 hours ago, Kiran said:

I would personally trade his killing edge for wo dao. Then he's basically a slightly more hp, better attack, but more fragile Lyn. 

Eh... Karel is more or less as good as Navarre (better bulk, slightly worse offenses at neutral, but marginally better offenses with the right boon/bane).

If you keep killing edge you can at least do the Desperation Reprisal Killing Edge+ combo that let's you launch a Reprisal every single attack. (Just need a way to reliably get to 1 hp). Pity that's only (42-def) + 12 damage, kills a lot of the high tiers due to their low def, but anything with bulk survives easily.

Edit: Actually with L&D, that build kills 74 of the cast at 1 HP, not too terrible. (Though bear in the mind the good damage dealers are in the high 90s, maybe even 100s.)

Edited April 5, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Trashbird]

Even though I knew he would probably suck, I took my +spd/-hp Henry to 5*. With skill inheritance, can he be salvageable as a unit, even with his crappy attack and speed?

[Kiran]

4 minutes ago, Trashbird said:

Even though I knew he would probably suck, I took my +spd/-hp Henry to 5*. With skill inheritance, can he be salvageable as a unit, even with his crappy attack and speed?

I would say no. He's outclassed by M!Robin who fills the same niche. Robin is already on the low side for atk and Henry just isn't going to cut it. If you add death blow to Henry he'll have the exact same atk as neutral Robin. Plus Robin has an additional 7 speed over Henry, which helps him not be doubled by certain units. Henry's extra bulk isn't going to help him if he's going to be doubled by everyone. Having both low speed and atk, the two most important stats in game, Henry isn't very viable.

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 hour ago, Trashbird said:

Even though I knew he would probably suck, I took my +spd/-hp Henry to 5*. With skill inheritance, can he be salvageable as a unit, even with his crappy attack and speed?

The way I see it, the main role of any red mage is to kill off important green threats, most notably Hector, Nino, and Julia. If you're a strong enough nuke, you could consider looking at destroying red and colorless units as well (with Raourblade, Raourraven, and/or Swordbreaker), but above all the most important role they must be able to fill is to AT LEAST delete important green threats. So let's take a look and see how Henry does. 

+Spd Hector has 34 attack with Raorraven+ and 25 speed. 

• Against neutral Hector, he fails to double because neutral Hector has 24 speed. He has an effective damage of 40 (34 x 1.2 WTA) against Hector's 19 res. He does a total of 21 damage, and Hector is left with 31/52 HP. 
  • +Spd Henry fails to even take off half of Hector's HP. 
• Against neutral Nino, he fails to double (and in fact gets doubled) neutral Nino's 36 speed and deals 14 damage to her. She lives with 19/33 HP. 
  • Henry once again fails to do even half damage against Nino, and this is assuming she isn't buffed, which is unlikely. 
• Against neutral Julia, he fails to double her 26 spd and deals 8 damage. Huzzah. She is left with 30/38 HP. She's left wondering if she was just stung by a mosquito and goes about her merry way without even noticing Henry. 

EDIT: I forgot that Henry naturally comes with G Tomebreaker, which changes the calculations against Nino and Julia. 

• Against neutral Nino, he doubles her for 14 x 2 = 28 damage. Nino is left with 5/33 HP, assuming no other buffs. 
• Against neutral Julia, he doubles her for 8 x 2 = 16 damage. Julia is left with 22/38 HP. 

In all of these cases, Henry fails to do his job as a red mage. I'm not even going to bother with calcs against reds and colorless if this is how he does against greens. However, let's take a look at what he can do with skill inheritance.  

• Henry with Triangle Adept 3 and Axebreaker vs -Res Hector
  • Henry has 34 attack, which is boosted up to 47 effective attack on greens with Triangle Adept. He attacks Hector for 31 x 2 damage, ORKOing him. Huzzah! It should be noted that this set will also ORKO neutral Hector but not +Res (which is pretty uncommon). 
    • Okay, so he can deal with Hector at least, given help from skill inheritance. Now how about Nino and Julia?
• Henry with TA 3 and G Tomebreaker vs Nino
  • Henry doubles neutral Nino for 21 x 2 damage, which ORKOs her. Assuming no buffs, Henry does enough damage to ORKO +Res Nino as well.
    • Okay so that's actually decent, what about Julia?
• Henry with TA 3 and G Tomebreaker vs Julia
  • Henry doubles neutral Julia for 15 x 2 damage, who then lives with 8 HP. Unfortunately, all iterations of Julia survive Hector even with TA 3 and G Tomebreaker. -Res Julia suffers 18 x 2 damage and lives with 2 HP. 
    • So, uh, just give up on Julia
    • While we're at it, let's look at how he'd do against a common colorless threat: Takumi
• Henry with TA 3 and Bowbreaker vs Takumi (he's not going to double without Bowbreaker)
  • Henry doubles neutral Takumi for 29 x 2 damage, ORKOing him handily. With Bowbreaker, he manages to kill all iterations of Takumi, even +Res!
    • However, Bowbreaker is essential because without it, he would not double and would thus do only 29 damage to neutral Takumi, who lives. 

In summary: Henry is not completely unsalvageable. He unfortunately won't be able to cover all of the threats he's supposed to (green melee, green mages, and colorless), but with Triangle Adept and the right Breaker skill, he still can do his job against one of the groups. You'll just have to make sure you have a way to handle the others. 

EDIT: As a bonus, Ignis, should you get it to activate, deals a very respectable 25 bonus damage with neutral defense. With the use of Ignis, Henry is able to secure the OHKO on Hector/Nino/Julia/Takumi even if he does not have the Breaker for them (he still needs Triangle Adept though). 

It's hard to get Ignis to go off with its high-ish cd and his low speed, but should you get it to be active, he will be able to deal a respectable amount of damage in one shot. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[Vaximillian]

@MaskedAmpharos, talking about ORKO'ing Hector: doesn't Hector double you back? I always thought you must one-shot him, lest he counterkills you.

At least, that's what I'm doing with my Lilina.

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

@MaskedAmpharos, talking about ORKO'ing Hector: doesn't Hector double you back? I always thought you must one-shot him, lest he counterkills you.

At least, that's what I'm doing with my Lilina.

Short answer: Hector's counterattack isn't a problem. 

So assuming we're running +Spd, -HP Hector with Triangle Adept and Axebreaker (two skills you need to ORKO Hector), neutral Hector deals 0 damage to Henry. 

• Neutral Hector has 36 attack + 16 with Armads for 52. Henry's Triangle Adept makes the damage multiplier 0.6x WTD, and 52 x 0.6 = 32. +Spd, -HP Henry has 32 def and thus takes 0 damage from Hector. (Also, Axebreaker would cancel out Armads' followup attack, so Hector would only hit him once). 

[Vaximillian]

Just now, MaskedAmpharos said:

So assuming we're running +Spd, -HP Hector with Triangle Adept and Axebreaker (two skills you need to ORKO Hector), neutral Hector deals 0 damage to Henry. 

Ah of course, I always forget about Triangle Adept. (because I don't have anyone on my roster to swipe it off from)

[MaskedAmpharos]

2 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Ah of course, I always forget about Triangle Adept. (because I don't have anyone on my roster to swipe it off from)

Even without Triangle Adept, neutral Hector deals (52 x 0.8) - 32 = 10 damage to Henry. That's a mosquito bite. 

Henry's biggest asset is honestly his defense, which I believe is the highest of any mage. This is offset by his poor attack and speed, however, which is why he's generally overshadowed in the glass cannon meta.