Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Percivalé]

eury is town but the bbm vote is probably wrong.

I'm about to go into work. will come back with content. last night was a bad night so some stuff I was saying might not have made a ton of sense.

##unvote

##vote: prims

I'll explain this later but I got the fucking most massive scumvibes from him especially from his remark towards me and how easily he dropped it.

arcanite/shinori stuff I'll answer later I'm going into work

[Arcanite]

5 hours ago, BBM said:

people misread posts all the time

Spoiler

Doesn't exactly make it excusable

Doesn't make you scummy either, but it could make you look like you're not really paying attention to the game, which could also make you say pointless/weird things and that could make you scummy.

And here I thought I was playing with people who knew what they were doing!

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

Im also going to properly read through Eurykins' posts now

After reading through that and looking back some more, I guess it also seems appropriate to say what I think about some othersthis time around

 

BBM: needs new glasses
I realize I said before: 

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

BBM also proceeded to post content good enough for me to think that they're not scum... but yet another "misread" circumstance just makes me reluctant to have any sort of trust

I think I should have worded this better

BBM would seem a lot more reliable and town-ish if it wasn't for this whole misread disease that seems to be plaguing the water
That being said, I can't say for certain that they are scum, and I'm more inclined to believe they're town. Their interaction with Eury about their claim is sufficient enough for me to say that. Especially their last post

5 hours ago, BBM said:

you've talked a lot about how I could make this claim as scum. but why would I? what does it gain me? if I'm totally BSing, eventually people will get suspicious of there never being a daykill. And if I'm basing this fake off a scum role, why would I give up the element of surprise?

I am curious to know who if anyone else is on your scum radar... I know you think the prims case is stronger and Shinori still makes you uncomfortable, but what of the others so far?

 

@Shinori

unfortunately he doesn't really seem scummy. I feel all of their questioning was legitimate and nothing in particular is suspicious... 
I want to wait and see what you have to say about Refa's latest posts, as well as Eury. I have no questions for you

 

@Bard

Posted good content but I want to know if there's anyone else you think is scum, and as I've said before why you're choosing to ignore the Refa wagon. Do you think it'll just sort itself out? Do you think neither of us are scum?

That's really all I have to say for now heh

 

I think after that I'm just waiting to see more from Propeller Knight and reasoning for their votes
(like the last one)

[Ampharos]

so i'm a goddamned fool and have been refreshing the signup thread for the past day or so waiting for the game to start

never once thinking that it would, yknow, be in a new thread

catching up

[Ampharos]

BBM claim feels towny. not necessarily the role itself but the manner in which the claim was handled

[Ampharos]

16 hours ago, Prims said:

Not really fond of this post either. It doesn't really contribute anything (so like, why make it)

oh man you are gonna hate me

[Ampharos]

i don't think arcanite's post about "3 townies might die" is a slip of any sort. somewhat awkward, out of place, unnecessary, yeah, but that's more a tonal read than anything else, and i don't know the player well enough to make alignment assumptions around that

i think how refa's handling the whole situation (both the BBM claim and the arcanite post) is... weird. and not how i remember town!refa playing in either of the NOCs i've seen him in. granted both of those were anon games and people play differently in anon games but it's still striking me as somewhat disconcerting

also on page 2: shinori makes a long post in which he states "i'm not voting refa but i do think it's weird that..." and then types for like 3 more paragraphs and then votes refa. which strikes me as Not So Good. weirdness around a person's vote and how they use it is usually scummier than not (see: me not voting for like 80% of d1 in cuphead)

[Ampharos]

15 hours ago, Refa said:

Arcanite has never played scum before, so it reads as a botched attempt at blending in (especially considering the post doesn't contribute otherwise).  I thought she was sure that three townies would die, which read as scummy because how would Town!Arcanite be confident in that?  I did misread how confident Arcanite was, so I don't think the "three townies might die" thing is scummy anymore.  I still think the post reads as a botched attempt at blending in, and nothing else has bothered me so far.

I don't have any feelings towards Weapons.  Not reacting to BBM's claim isn't bad, it's just the only thing that stood out to me about his post.  Wouldn't have even mentioned it ordinarily, but wanted to get Prims' thoughts on the matter.

ok, this is interesting

and makes me somewhat reevaluate the point i made in my previous post

because i somewhat agree with this

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

24 minutes ago, Walrein said:

so i'm a goddamned fool and have been refreshing the signup thread for the past day or so waiting for the game to start

never once thinking that it would, yknow, be in a new thread

catching up

You didn't get my message in scumchat?

[BBM]

Phoneposting so I can't do the quotestrippy thing and also will talk about the posts in more detail when i get home

Firstly @refa i don't really understand your problems about my shinori/refa vote. I don't know why you're classifying my shinori case as voting for misplays rather than scumplay. Why do you think rhat is? Also meta isn't the core of my prims vote, like I clarified to eury but you probably didnt read that. It's that he dropped a strong vote to wagon a newbie for a weak vote.

I'm annoyed that people are making it out like I'm saying it's good that I misread stuff. I know it's not a good thing. It's jist not a scummy thing and eury didn't go to any effort to show why it was a scummy thing for me to do, rather than just auto saying it's scummy

 

[Ampharos]

shocked that nobody came in to break up my posting chain while i was trying to parse all the wallposts on the past 2 pages

lemme try to sort some piles here

towny: bbm via

less towny: eury omega arcanite bard

null: fenrir rapier weapons refa

would lynch: shinori prims

##vote: prims because i think it's the more productive of the two votes

will put some actual meat behind these takes once i grab some food brb

[Ampharos]

nvm finally got postsniped

praise be

[Ampharos]

shinori's placement on my list is primarily a combination of that vote weirdness that i mentioned earlier and a playstyle thus far that i don't think is out of his scumrange. i just rolled wolf with him in cuphead and i noted that he tends to fall back on a sort of narrow-banded self-defense focus when he needs to acquire townreads, and does it quite well. i'm not voting him yet partially because i'd like to evaluate his long-term posting, for reasons i can't really go into because it would spoil the read

so prims. i'm told that prims is, like, pretty into NOC, so it's confusing to me that so much of his posting has been kind of out-of-touch and surface level. accusing weapons based off rvs stuff feels weird (plus the assertion that they seemed to still be around? which there doesn't really seem to be any basis for?),  the callout of via feels like he's not actually reading into via's thought process and is instead just taking his words at face value, and then he just. dips out. and still hasn't come back. overall i guess the word i would use is "cagey"? he feels kinda cagey, like he doesn't really wanna get involved in any real interactions and would rather just toss out comments from the sidelines.

if my assumption of prims's general level of play is way off-base someone needs to let me know so i can correct this read

in the meantime i'd like to see how he posts when he gets back

[Ampharos]

22 minutes ago, BBM said:

Phoneposting so I can't do the quotestrippy thing and also will talk about the posts in more detail when i get home

Firstly @refa i don't really understand your problems about my shinori/refa vote. I don't know why you're classifying my shinori case as voting for misplays rather than scumplay. Why do you think rhat is? Also meta isn't the core of my prims vote, like I clarified to eury but you probably didnt read that. It's that he dropped a strong vote to wagon a newbie for a weak vote.

I'm annoyed that people are making it out like I'm saying it's good that I misread stuff. I know it's not a good thing. It's jist not a scummy thing and eury didn't go to any effort to show why it was a scummy thing for me to do, rather than just auto saying it's scummy

 

bolded is something that i agree is scummy

@ the last paragraph: i thought i read something in a eurypost about how the basis of that was that she thought there were too many early misreads to the point that some/all were faked as a way for scum to misrep things? i could be misremembering, lemme try to find it

[Ampharos]

10 hours ago, Eurykins said:

> Are we making a game out of constantly misreading (and inadvertently misrepping) posts being made by people? It seems to have been happening on multiple levels since the day phase started, and it's seeming less of an "actual mistake" and moreso either graspy or weak attempts to twist posts into something they weren't meant to be. 

found it

[Ampharos]

@Eurykins what led you to have the above thought? was there something tonally that rubbed you the wrong way, or is it just the sheer frequency of the misreads? and if it's the latter, is there anything tonally that skews it back in the direction of genuine for you?

@Bard do you have a read on Refa in either direction? or was the wagon comment less a "i think refa is town" thing and more a "i don't wanna talk about refa yet because [redacted]" thing

@arcanite could you give me a general rundown of where your head's at re: town/scum reads? i know you did one a few pages back but i'm curious to see if it's changed at all

side note i can't get those last 2 to actually ping and it's killing me

[Ampharos]

anyways i'm out of shit to talk about so i'll just be here waiting for someone to post

[BBM]

Tbh I misread weapons's vote on refa too fuck me more fuel for the misread case.

Sorry guys it feela like I'm reading people's cases and seeing in them what I found suspicious with the person they're voting rather than what their case actually was. I thought weapons was saying the inconsistency was bad bc refa pretended it was one thing and then made it out to be the other thing. Refa did this later with the arcanite vote. But really weapons is just saying it's suspicious bc he thought it was going to be one thing and then it turned out to be the other and that's a dumb vote.

Also wrt shinori there's scum benefit in pushing someone heavily while saying they're not scummy bc you're cheerleading a wagon w/o tying yourself to it. But then he did later anyways I guess.

Also Arcanite's vote against you is part of their reaction to the pressure against them. And idk like you voted them on a misread, said you were wrong, but then kept voting them for a reason you hadn't brought up before. Imo this is a more suspicious form of misreading than anything I've done bc you justified a vote on it and then stuck with it even when that justification was shown to be untrue. It's also not very different from shinori's vote and you think that's fine?

[Ampharos]

13 minutes ago, BBM said:

Tbh I misread weapons's vote on refa too fuck me more fuel for the misread case.

Sorry guys it feela like I'm reading people's cases and seeing in them what I found suspicious with the person they're voting rather than what their case actually was. I thought weapons was saying the inconsistency was bad bc refa pretended it was one thing and then made it out to be the other thing. Refa did this later with the arcanite vote. But really weapons is just saying it's suspicious bc he thought it was going to be one thing and then it turned out to be the other and that's a dumb vote.

Also wrt shinori there's scum benefit in pushing someone heavily while saying they're not scummy bc you're cheerleading a wagon w/o tying yourself to it. But then he did later anyways I guess.

Also Arcanite's vote against you is part of their reaction to the pressure against them. And idk like you voted them on a misread, said you were wrong, but then kept voting them for a reason you hadn't brought up before. Imo this is a more suspicious form of misreading than anything I've done bc you justified a vote on it and then stuck with it even when that justification was shown to be untrue. It's also not very different from shinori's vote and you think that's fine?

how do you push someone without scumreading them

or am i misinterpreting

[BBM]

back home for 30 mins, time to use that time to play mafia instead of eat lunch

8 hours ago, Bard said:

I think in the grander scheme of things it's unimportant to decide whether it's scummy or not because it is an inherently WIFOM argument. There could be any number of reasons for scum to claim this early. Gambits exist.

I dislike BBM then begging the question of, "If I have no reason to fake my claim, why am I scum?" because this is inviting that WIFOM argument, and frankly he chatters too much about his role for my tastes. Informed Townie in a role madness game feels rather bastard to me since it's effectively vanilla; can't do shit with the information gained, so I don't trust that's all there is to BBM's claim.

Flaunting how much you misread makes it seem like you'd make more of an effort to read properly to me. Maybe we're just wired differently, I don't like being known as incompetent and I certainly wouldn't use a reputation for incompetence as a defence. Explain why you think you didn't misread/why your interpretation is correct, please.

wifom stuff is fair I guess. the rest is dumb. i never said I didn't misread??? and if I HAD said I didn't misread then how could I be flaunting my misreading? my point is just that misreading is not alignment indicative unless you think I'm specifically misreading to push a scum agenda and eury didn't provide any evidence of me doing so. when I pressed her on it she just said "yeah but you could"

8 hours ago, Bard said:

I also don't like defensive posts that attack someone's character ("This is stupid", "Are you even reading properly?"). Yeah, you do address his content luckily but I think the ad hominem attacks are unwarranted.

Re: Arcanite

Way too skittish for my tastes and the Posts:Content ratio is disheartening. Early vote on Refa doesn't read legitimate to me, don't understand why you take the time to talk down someone else's suspicion of Refa and highlight he's only on your scumdar for actions with regard to yourself. Also I don't like the use of process of elimination so early, of course you'll have few scum reads. Claiming BBM is trustworthy and then downgrading self by saying how inexperienced you are also just doesn't seem town-minded to me, because it's a lot of waffle and padded content with no real substance to it.

hoo boy you're about to get acquainted to playing with shinori

dislike the first half of this arcanite bit. they had 3 posts. 1 was RVS and 2 were content. they're new of course they're going to be skittish. they wanted to vote refa; imo talking about other peoples cases on refa while doing so is a good thing, not a bad thing. second half is fair regarding PoE and his part about me.

8 hours ago, Bard said:

I don't even consider Refa's wagon worth attention at this point in time. I will revisit that if somehow this wagon makes it closer to the deadline. 

idk if this is scummy but i just really dislike how this is phrased, not because you're saying that the wagon is dumb but then not looking at it, but because you're saying that you're not going to look at it, except 2/3 of your suspicious (Shinori, me, arcanite) are voting Refa, and your suspicions on them are directly based on their actions towards refa. so you ARE giving refa's wagon a lot of attention.

8 hours ago, Refa said:

"Your Shinori push also bothers me.  It reads as you finding misplays over scum plays to me" This doesn't apply anymore, bad editing on my part.  Overall, I'm not bothered by BBM's Shinori case but I think calling Shinori out on waffling on me earlier doesn't make sense.

missed this post while phonereading sorry all the WALLS caught my eye instead. I think I answered about the waffling though.

[BBM]

9 minutes ago, Walrein said:

how do you push someone without scumreading them

or am i misinterpreting

read shinori's posts again from that time; he said that refa's posts were the scummiest thing in the thread but that he didn't think Refa was scummy.

[Refa]

wtf sf ate my post i hate this stupid forum so much

[Refa]

I'm just starting from what I remember.

I don't like the Prims wagon, feels like people are being way too harsh on RVS posts which I personally am not bothered by.  WRT Via and Walrein's votes, any issues I have w/them are disagreements at worst, so Prims is the one who needs to respond there.  @BBM Prims' Weapons case wasn't stronger and I feel like you're misrepping his vote change.  The worst part about it for me is that I expected it as soon as he made the Arcanite case.  @Omega. You never explain why exactly Prims is scummy.  I feel like missing your #1 scumread is a pretty egregious omission that bothers me.  Everyone should read his post where he votes Prims because am I missing something here????

[BBM]

arcanite's last couple posts feel a bit padded cuz they waffle a lot. it also feels like a majority of their content is asking questions and unlike say Eury's questions I'm not exactly sure how several of those questions are related to peoples alignments.

also arcanite what do you think of Refa's other content that he posted that's not related to you? i think the misread thing was valid to bring up when you first voted bc that was a large part of refa's content but he's posted other stuff since then related to me and weapons and it feels like you're just doubling down on the misread thing without looking at that stuff.

omega, i'm very confused you talk about how prims is scummy for aforementioned reasons but I can't actually find those reasons anywhere??? is it just the stuff that Shinori and I said?

anyways my last couple posts have been all over the place bc I was talking about stuff out of order but it's still prims > eury, for me beyond that it's just a hodgepodge of minor suspicions on refa, shinori, bard, and arcanite.

[BBM]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

I'm just starting from what I remember.

I don't like the Prims wagon, feels like people are being way too harsh on RVS posts which I personally am not bothered by.  WRT Via and Walrein's votes, any issues I have w/them are disagreements at worst, so Prims is the one who needs to respond there.  @BBM Prims' Weapons case wasn't stronger and I feel like you're misrepping his vote change.  The worst part about it for me is that I expected it as soon as he made the Arcanite case.  @Omega. You never explain why exactly Prims is scummy.  I feel like missing your #1 scumread is a pretty egregious omission that bothers me.  Everyone should read his post where he votes Prims because am I missing something here????

weapons vote was grounded in scum intent and had meta backings for how scum Weapons plays; arcanite case was a combo of "why post filler?" (in RVS) and gut. no idea how you think it's stronger than the weapons vote.

[Refa]

@Arcanite Regardless of my alignment, I can misread.  This is what I mean by you arguing in bad faith.  Misreading has nothing to do w/my skill level.  Scum!Me doesn't need to misread you in order to lay down a vote on you.  I'm confused.  Why does Prims jumping on you just because other people did make more sense coming from town?