We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[EvanManManMan]

4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I'm not sure what is bothering you about me being willing to consider a world where I'm wrong about Snike

Also by the numbers it makes sense for there to be a fifth member and im trying to figure out who makes sense in that team

i don't think there are many options

if you look at my progression on kirsche you'll see I have had all kinds of reasons for tinfoiling about junko/kirsche being scum/scum, i don't see any world where you don't think im being genuine

but i really think it's just snike atp, im just not willing to not consider the alternatives, which i have said don't make sense

The strawman is real

[Makaze]

Just now, EvanManManMan said:

The strawman is real

Have I misread you

what is your actual alternative in a world where Snike is the last mafia and there is another scum member? (based on your responses you think Snike is possible but not Kirsche or athena)

[Makaze]

bad wording, i mean where snike flips mafia and there is another member

 

[EvanManManMan]

6 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Mhmm yes we left strips of dried shit on your toilet seat last night

 

I've been vaguely stuck between trying to read a book and thinking about this game, and I'm basically getting neither done. One thing to ask though, @EvanManManMan, did Lord Gaius really submit a Night 1 action? Didn't he sub in on Day 2?

Yes he did. Your point doesn't make sense though since I sent in a night 3 action despite my sub in being announced at day start.

[Makaze]

Tonally I think Evan is town, i also don't think he would behave this way as mafia, and his role still cannot be a mafia without making town the weakest thing possible and mafia god tier

I don't see a world where this is possible

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

I can definitely see Makaze being a wolf. Ifyou are so certain of it though why are you not pushing him?

 

And I'm not using your self meta. That's weak.

I didn't say I was certain. I've played with Makaze once before a couple of years ago where we both V and were at each other's throats like we are here. So there's that, and I want to explore athena for now.

Truth be told, I'm mostly just waiting on Walrein/athena to do more so we get a better picture of the game. I'm good with my vote where it's at for now.

As for the self meta, I gave you evidence that self-voting is just an Omega-thing. I've also claimed scum despite being village on SF in both of my last games. You can say it's weak all you want; I'm just giving everyone proof that a self-vote isn't out of the ordinary for me. I'm surprised it garnered so much attention, who gives a shit if I self-vote at the beginning of D4? That's the most interesting thing we have to talk about with 3 flipped wolves? Please.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I'm out for a bit. I've got a busy day, hopefully I can check in this evening though I might phonepost here and there in the meantime.

[EvanManManMan]

4 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

If they're red they should be lynched.

The claim sounded reasonable and genuine, but thinking about the overall game, isn't it strangely weak? I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with role balance on this forum, but so far, Town's only "reliable" superpower has been the Dayvig from Alette. We had Dreaming God that's unpredictable af and Reflexive Disabler, (possibly even Delayer?), roles that can shit on Town just as well. Mayor and Caffeinator are power roles, but their influence is relatively minor. We already have another conditional role with Via. And our Role Miller is literally useless. Unless you and Refa have some godlike stuff going on (assuming you're not scum), I've having doubts.

Criticizing my claim for being weak makes no sense for a few reasons. Firstly, not all PRs, especially in a PR madness game, are going to be strong for balance purposes. You also can't criticize my role for being a weak TK without realizing that if the hosts were going for a stronger TK, Alette would have more shots and my conditional ability would be something different.

[EvanManManMan]

Showering brb

[Makaze]

The thing that's really pinging me about Omega and makes him obviously non town is that he didn't even MENTION the slip based read of him, or try to make it make sense in why he did it

theres no world where this is a good look if he's town. 

i genuinely read his defense post as town and then noticed he scumslipped about his role

i don't see how anyone could read my progression and not the impression im genuinely scumreading him

(i think hes the itp but don't have a better word for what I mean)

[Makaze]

12 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Have I misread you

what is your actual alternative in a world where Snike is the last mafia and there is another scum member? (based on your responses you think Snike is possible but not Kirsche or athena)

 

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

bad wording, i mean where snike flips mafia and there is another member

 

@EvanManManMan

[Baldrick]

1 hour ago, EvanManManMan said:

Shinori not securing Kirsche can be explained by his day 2 reads which I plan to look at. Him not securing the slot doesn't ping me as Kill being scum.

Duly noted, I'll be waiting.

 

1 hour ago, EvanManManMan said:

The statement about Shinori not wanting to vote with 2 mafia buddies is correct, and I feel that one of the reasons Shinori voted Eclipse over Kirsche or Junko was because of scum clumping together in those areas.

What specific areas are you talking about?

1 hour ago, EvanManManMan said:

Snike suggesting to cfd onto Eclipse would be scummy becauae it shows scum attempting to pile together on what seemed like low hanging fruit but now that I think about it, that would only make sense if Kill was scum, which I don't think. It doesn't really matter though as I was incorrect in Snike wanting to cfd onto Eclipse but his targets weren't any better being BBM and Alette iirc.

You're right that Snike never did that, but it's a fact that Shinori voted with  JB on eclipse, which was a long shot, rather than voting kirsche.

 

Omega: Attack Makaze's method, not his results. His cases generally make sense to me and are based on evidence/quotes, even when they haven't come to the right conclusion; hindsight is 20/20.

Makaze has a certain arrogance to his posts, but I'd say you do too, with you basically saying "stop scumreading me, or I won't be able to draw the kill". You haven't explained how you could do that after claiming, btw, which is the reason I'm voting you.

 

Makaze: The JB towards Athena interactions actually look bad. A couple of chainsaw defenses of Athena, while consistently avoiding giving a read on Athena himself.

Athena's progression on JB looks like a bus dismount, expect it doesn't go onto a ML but onto junko, who is also scum and has a more powerful role. That part is inconclusive to me.

 

Going to sleep now.

 

[Makaze]

@Fable

I implore you to look at my ISO and try to create a world where you think my progression is ingenuine

on anyone

I understand your argument, but I think that looking at when I've been wrong is not good enough when you can look at the cases and believe that I believe them

Was there any point where you think that I didn't believe what I was saying? What reason could I have to go this ham when all I had to do to win this game was sit back and stick to my reads after Arcanite flipped?

[Makaze]

8 minutes ago, Makaze said:

@Fable

I implore you to look at my ISO and try to create a world where you think my progression is ingenuine

on anyone

I understand your argument, but I think that looking at when I've been wrong is not good enough when you can look at the cases and believe that I believe them

Was there any point where you think that I didn't believe what I was saying? What reason could I have to go this ham when all I had to do to win this game was sit back and stick to my reads after Arcanite flipped?

i would go even further than that. there is no way i could win this game when i limited my poe that bad. i would always become a lynch target at some number of town when i kept doing the same thing for multiple days

my lynch priority is snike > kirsche > athena, with each step being miles behind the others

my cases support it and my poe has only changed minimally across days. it has gotten smaller, not larger

and if there is still mafia after that then i have to concede the game because i don't think anyone else could be mafia

my worlds poe is just not a mafia move

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

21 minutes ago, Makaze said:

The thing that's really pinging me about Omega and makes him obviously non town is that he didn't even MENTION the slip based read of him, or try to make it make sense in why he did it

theres no world where this is a good look if he's town. 

i genuinely read his defense post as town and then noticed he scumslipped about his role

i don't see how anyone could read my progression and not the impression im genuinely scumreading him

(i think hes the itp but don't have a better word for what I mean)

I don't even know what you're talking about. I skimmed last night's pages. If you can show me what you're talking about, I'll take a look at it.

Also, I guarantee it's bad no matter what you said. Bartozio misread his role. Nightmare misread his role. Villas forget specifics about their roles all the time in this game. Why on earth is it a smart idea to pull the same shit despite having it failed twice already?

[Makaze]

 

Read from here onwards.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

18 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Omega: Attack Makaze's method, not his results. His cases generally make sense to me and are based on evidence/quotes, even when they haven't come to the right conclusion; hindsight is 20/20.

Any competent wolf is good at having their cases well-reasoned/well-padded.

When someone powers through several villagers; they deserve to die regardless of alignment in most cases. It has decent wolf equity and good wolves spend their games shitting on as many villagers they can while getting read V for it because of "His reasons are good."

I'm making breakfast then headed out. If Makaze pulls what he's talking about, I'll have time to respond. Otherwise, I'm good with my vote and still am just waiting on athena/Walrein to play.

[Makaze]

5 minutes ago, Omega. said:

I don't even know what you're talking about. I skimmed last night's pages. If you can show me what you're talking about, I'll take a look at it.

Also, I guarantee it's bad no matter what you said. Bartozio misread his role. Nightmare misread his role. Villas forget specifics about their roles all the time in this game. Why on earth is it a smart idea to pull the same shit despite having it failed twice already?

FTR I buy that he hasn't seen it. That makes his not commenting on it less scummy, but only slightly (not seriously reading why I'm scumreading him doesn't make sense if he's trying to say I'm Mafia)

[Makaze]

I.E. he has the attitude that I have to be mafia so he doesn't have to read what im saying

this is omgus of the highest level

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

 

Read from here onwards.

I just forgot. When I think of self-delayed/disruptive roles, I usually don't think of how kills interact with them and instead think of how other actions interfere. From my site, kills are almost never tampered with and I didn't really think about that here.

Not even wolfy regardless and the logic still stands. If I get killed, sure I live another day, but I still die eventually, hopefully before endgame.

Marth outing that part of his role is dumb. That said, I like how you're trying to come at me for things Marth have done and how what I have done/said are different, when you complained about people pulling that on you earlier with zeus.

[Makaze]

(i realize this is hypocritical because of how I treated Sully but I think that Omega is tonally terrible. waiting for him to explain that slip)

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

I.E. he has the attitude that I have to be mafia so he doesn't have to read what im saying

this is omgus of the highest level

Yeah, GTFO. I'm not even voting you, and we have been playing a game of chicken since D2. I'm also one of the first people to have voiced suspicion against you and have been trying to push village to stop reading you V and taking your cases seriously for a while now.

[Iris]

Day 4.11 - Votals
Omega. (5): Killthestory, Makaze, via, Baldrick
athena_57 (2): Refa, Omega.
Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy (2): Alette, EvanManManMan
Walrein (1): Fable

Not Voting: athena_57, Beru, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, Walrein

You have ~54.75 hours left in the day. With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Iris

[Makaze]

Just now, Omega. said:

I just forgot. When I think of self-delayed/disruptive roles, I usually don't think of how kills interact with them and instead think of how other actions interfere. From my site, kills are almost never tampered with and I didn't really think about that here.

Not even wolfy regardless and the logic still stands. If I get killed, sure I live another day, but I still die eventually, hopefully before endgame.

Marth outing that part of his role is dumb. That said, I like how you're trying to come at me for things Marth have done and how what I have done/said are different, when you complained about people pulling that on you earlier with zeus.

I can actually buy this claim, it fits with what i said

But I think you forgot AND were not actually trying to eat the NK

fwiw

[Makaze]

i.e. you forgot for the purposes of that post, but would have remembered if it wasn't an AtE defense. you added the NK thing but there was never any world where a self-delayer AND a self--watcher would make sense unless it also delayed kills so you could catch people shooting you.

then you self-voted which really helped the case