We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

8 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

walrein claimed me and i'm probably a scum role tbh

I think I (who Makaze is) legitimately have a decent shot at being a scum role.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

7 hours ago, Refa said:

This post has too many quotes but Baroness and Grim are the other scum and everyone else is town.

There are like three more posts on this page that I'm not quoting, sue me.

Three more posts on this page as well.

A few more posts here as well that I'm too lazy to quote.

This is the start of D2 FTR, and his reaction to being wagoned.  He has some posts at the start of the next page as well.  Cop outed results on him soon after and he got lynched that day.

@Makaze I want you in particular to look at these and LMK  if you think the tone differs and why, because from where I'm standing not only is the tone the same but so is the style of posting and now I really want to throw down a vote on Walrein lol.

Interesting, this was Walrein. Did Walrein look villagery there otherwise?

athena/Walrein can't be wolves together. The latter picked up on the former's wolfiness early in the game. I've never seen Walrein wolf before; is he capable of looking very villagery without being pressed like he did early D1 this game?

@Fable Same to you, and/or anyone else who has played with him.

[EvanManManMan]

8 hours ago, Makaze said:

@EvanManManMan Can you explain in detail exactly what you role does and who you've targeted and why? Any notes Gaius left would be helpful as well.

I know you already said but I'm feeling lazy after all this casing.

Each night I choose a player that I predict will die at night. If I am correct, I get a vigilante shot I can use the next night. I can only shoot for each correct guess and both abilities can not be used at the same time, meaning I am conditional and nonconsecutive. Gaius targetted BBM night 1 and Snike/Satsuma night 2. He left no reasoning for these choices but ISOing him may have the answers. I picked Killthestory last night because I know him and that he is a strong town player. If I read the thread my bet would have been different but I was at the time, working on very little info.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 hours ago, Beru said:

omega kind of Actually lynched himself though so like

they're competing to die first rn

Yeah, no. A jokey self-vote is not competition to kill myself.

I'm YOLOSWAG from MU by the way. I was a wolf in the 21 Ancestors game and villager in Proph's Diamond game. If you remember, my tone was much more serious in the former and strongly DGAF in the latter.

How much of this game have you read? Why would you think Makaze, with his terrible voting record and has literally been confirmed to champion wolf lynches, would ever be killed? Or Alette, who is essentially a vanilla at this point? Refa should be dead, yes, but that will help soon enough because I think him/Fable are the only people who haven't started tinfoiling as a probability at this point.

[EvanManManMan]

8 hours ago, Beru said:

ok now I really wanna know why omega voted himself first 

Right now I see Omega's self vote as a "Look at me I'm so townie" vote which is AtE derived and probably comes from scum but I still need to ISO him to get a solid read.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 hours ago, Refa said:

@Omega. @Snike Feel free to scum claim if you want to win this race!!!!!

I'm asking you because you've seen me wolf here before.

Do you think I ever kill Shinori, Kaoz, or Mackc? LMFAO! I would have killed you or Fable without question, literally nobody else.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, EvanManManMan said:

Right now I see Omega's self vote as a "Look at me I'm so townie" vote which is AtE derived and probably comes from scum but I still need to ISO him to get a solid read.

What the fuck?

How is self-voting ever a LAMIST play when it's deliberately anti-town play? You arguing the opposite here is ridiculous, and why you're not moving out my pool. If you live today, target Fable/Refa for the rest of the game. If you don't, village needs to take it as a wolf claim and kill Evan.

[Fable]

I've only seen walrein wolf twice and it was both in hydra games.  He posted a little bit early d1 in one game and then literally never again and the other one where he posted a bit  and also got caught doing the most obvious bus in the world but then he NKed me like a bitch and I couldn't call him on it. But like walrein can fake content and tone as a wolf and idk why people think he can't.

[EvanManManMan]

8 hours ago, Makaze said:

Snike/Refa remaining scum

gg

Tell me how Refa switching from Kirsche to Junko is scum. There is absolutely 0 reason to bus in that situation when you can pull off a mislynch like that.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

5 minutes ago, Fable said:

I've only seen walrein wolf twice and it was both in hydra games.  He posted a little bit early d1 in one game and then literally never again and the other one where he posted a bit  and also got caught doing the most obvious bus in the world but then he NKed me like a bitch and I couldn't call him on it. But like walrein can fake content and tone as a wolf and idk why people think he can't.

Oh okay. He can go back in the pool then. That said, him/athena are unpartnered.

Also here's a talking point for the village: Yesterday, Snike brought up some shit that made it between himself/Mackc and they thunderdomed. He also voted Makaze. In the former case, he made himself look worse in the eyes of village.

Why does he make these plays as wolf/ITP? Like when I saw those, I had a sense that Snike just gave absolutely zero fucks about his survival, because he was pushing in directions that were very unpopular for extremely little benefit as wolf/ITP. So think about that, and actually discuss it if you're asserting he's the play today, please.

Also, did Makaze actually shade Refa? What the fuck. Village, grow some balls and don't let Makaze go to endgame with the nonsense he has pulled here. Ridiculous.

[EvanManManMan]

12 minutes ago, Omega. said:

What the fuck?

How is self-voting ever a LAMIST play when it's deliberately anti-town play? You arguing the opposite here is ridiculous, and why you're not moving out my pool. If you live today, target Fable/Refa for the rest of the game. If you don't, village needs to take it as a wolf claim and kill Evan.

Self voting is a textbook LAMIST play. The psychology behind it is that you deliberately do something anti town which prompts the idea of you being scum, because the action is anti town. However the actual intent of this action would be to say that voting you as a whole is anti town, which is the definition of a LAMIST play. 

 

Not moving me from your scum pool because of a single post calling you out on something minor is weak and you know it. I'm not intimidated by you and I'm not going to tunnel Fable or Refa just because you told me to.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, EvanManManMan said:

Self voting is a textbook LAMIST play. The psychology behind it is that you deliberately do something anti town which prompts the idea of you being scum, because the action is anti town. However the actual intent of this action would be to say that voting you as a whole is anti town, which is the definition of a LAMIST play. 

 

Not moving me from your scum pool because of a single post calling you out on something minor is weak and you know it. I'm not intimidated by you and I'm not going to tunnel Fable or Refa just because you told me to.

My self-vote was an obvious meme and I even said I'd post later. I'm not using intimidation tactics; I'm saying there are obvious people who will be NKed and ignoring them in favor of people who aren't as likely is wolfy. Do what you want; my goal was to lay groundwork to hold you accountable and I've done that.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@Killthestory

I'm V. I was trolling you last night. I'm leaning V on you here. If you're seriously unsure on me, (re)read my D2 entrance and tell me if that's not prototypical YOLO.

[EvanManManMan]

8 hours ago, Makaze said:

Like there is no world where Snike/Athena is a thing

i'm down to flip Snike just to prove Refa wrong

still reading

Makaze makes a bunch of walls but outside of them it feels like he is intentionally being dense.

He is throwing shade at Refa and he even doubted Kill being town. It doesn't take a brain to realize these two are both obvious town and are not worth taming these actions against.

[EvanManManMan]

@Omega. I misread the target part. I assumed you meant scum reading and pushing their lynches and not betting.

 

And can you quote me where you said it was a joke?

[Fable]

I might lowkey be down for a makaze lynch. 

Like all the points against him have been made but it also still bothers me Zeus flipped on me for no reason and went on to bibbon for reasons you could still apply to me. Like it's possible he was just sheeping JB on that vote and JB said not to push there anymore cuz he backed off too and he made up some BS reason to V read me. 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

8 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Makaze makes a bunch of walls but outside of them it feels like he is intentionally being dense.

He is throwing shade at Refa and he even doubted Kill being town. It doesn't take a brain to realize these two are both obvious town and are not worth taming these actions against.

Yep, this is why Makaze is wolfy. Lol @ his "I'M 100% SURE OMEGA IS THE PLAY GUYS" when he has been pulling this garbage and being wrong for some time now, and an even bigger lol @ people sheeping him. Most of this village is desensitized to his bullshit, and if's he a wolf we have probably lost due to the horrible villa reads on him. This village was also reading Shinori V for bad reasons, and apparently it's a good idea to repeat the process.

Btw: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/15464-Stranger-Things-Mafia?p=2181932&viewfull=1#post2181932

Here's me self-voting D3 in a recent game as villa. I didn't say explicitly say it was a joke vote in either here or there; I did it as a joke and it's well within my personality.

[Makaze]

i tried to do a basic bad!athena case last night but fell asleep. heres the quotes i still had in my queue

On 4/16/2018 at 2:16 PM, Jaybee said:

i know i had people who asked me questions (BBM, Kaoz, Omega, Refa?) and I would love to answer you but you'll have to wait till D3 so I can organise my thoughts over 24-48 hours because I really don't have good answers for any of your questions, reading 16 pages wasn't the greatest thing for my motivation.  Only one I guess this answers is @Kaoz lol

I've read the junko case Refa and athena linked me, and I'm still not feeling it, I read him as demotivated more than anything, and that's a null. OK with a lynch for the reads it'll produce, but I'd rather go for bigger scumreads.

Won't be awake for phase change, so very fast dirty thoughts:

eclipse targeting makaze straight off the bat for zeus's poor play (did she ever say she thought anything of zeus' alignment instead of his play?) is total bs

there's a nice little eclipse/mack defense of junk I see (which is how I read eclipse's gigantic quotewall, again giving an out for a junko mislynch), would look at the remaining 2 if junk/eclipse flips scum. I'm more confident on mack > eclipse cases, but I don't think mack is happening today.

rolespec i think mack is more likely to be town but the play is highly suspect.

##Unvote, ##Vote eclipse

Does this help or hurt JB/Athena associations?

On 4/12/2018 at 3:26 PM, Jaybee said:

at least co-networker is bloody easy to prove

This was about Athena. Not sure if it's feigned because JB is mafia or because Athena is though.

On 4/12/2018 at 2:52 PM, Jaybee said:

I was fine with Marth's overall Junko case and I didn't really see what threw other people off so much, and I had no issues with the Zeus/Junko vote. But what I really dislike is his claim. This means there's no way to clear you until D3 (and I wouldn't want an alignment cop or something going "well, I targeted Marth and my action failed last night so I guess...") and the first impression I had was scum trying to delay their death by a day or 2.

Another person I'm quite uncomfortable with is eclipse. First off, I think she ultra misread (or misrepped) this - I read it as Bart >>>>> Marth > Zeus and that flows perfectly with Athena's overall play. Plus I am still very against her given reasons for lynching Zeus, exact same logic as earlier (and echoed by many others) that I'm sure this isn't the best use of our D1 lynch. I can conceivably see scum pushing this lynch, honestly, it's a fast, ez kill.

I'm not taking anything Athena says wrt Zeus (so far) as anything alignment-indicative because of the family relationship. I felt the earlier interaction with Hydra was fine (if a little tunnelly) but he moved on to other cases which I'm a little too lazy to read now because it's 2:44am. Main thing I dislike is the vote on Nightmare now because he's not getting lynched today and I feel there could be much better uses of his vote.

My earlier vote on Bart was because of his overly defensive reaction, and I'm still really disliking what I'm seeing. I'm sure there's a lot more to say about Athena aside from his Zeus interactions, and I'm not fully understanding this explanation - several people (off the top of my head, Fable, Via, Bibbon) were scumreading Zeus, so do you think any of them are scummy also? If I'm even reading you correctly? I think he's trying to hop on Snike's (supposedly pretty legit, I'm sorry I really haven't read it thoroughly yet) wagon on Athena 

@Eurykins yes, I'm more willing to dismiss kirsche tunnelling as meta and I don't think it's as alignment indicative as compared to someone else doing it. I didn't think Satsuma's 'tunnelling' was that, if at all; more of newb defense and not knowing what to say or do. No other read on Eury because I really don't have the mood to read your D1 thesis atm sorry

@Refa seems to be playing as per normal, don't recall anything in particular sticking out, I initially tagged him because I wanted to respond to his earlier tag but I don't really have anything to say so w/e lol

Keeping the bart vote, I think I'll get one more post out but if I collapse before that I'm happy with my vote staying on Bart. Don't see a need to switch over to Marth because I'm sure there's enough people online but I'd be ok with that based on the claim alone.

Good or bad?

On 4/11/2018 at 1:14 PM, athena_57 said:

....

Good content man

This is the only thing that actually makes me feel weird about athena, at least on tone.

On 4/11/2018 at 1:35 PM, Jaybee said:

cool beans i lost my content refreshing the page ty sf

 

I don't really know how to feel wrt the way eclipse is playing, which is targeting people for playing poorly (Zeus, Satsuma, Fable's first post) instead of targeting people for being scummy. I recall you saying earlier that you were null/town on most of the active players - is that something that's changed? I'm townreading clipsey but I wanna know how you feel about the more active players. || Also I agree with Via that this line of attack has a different vibe than Via's own vote on Zeus - I'd sheep Via's case tbh.

 

I didn't have issues with Bart's rereading of his role PM but what I don't like is how overly defensive he was in his last post. I vaguely? recall? him doing this before? but it reads like scared scum.

 

kirsche, do you have any reads on anyone aside from BBM? Normally I dislike this level of tunneling but it's kirsche so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

same for satsuma - anything on anyone aside from Athena? I know you said you needed more time but if there wasn't enough content then surely there is now.

 

I'm not understanding Refa's defense of Fable - when you say "scum won't ask who to sheep in-thread" (paraphrased). can you elaborate for a dumb 8yo pls

 

fine with via and walrein too

 

I don't like weapons, this post feels very washy over Athena, Bart & Kirsche, using a lot of words and giving both justifications for a null read.

 

might have more on Bibbon and some other people but it's 1:32am so i might just go and sleep, ##Vote: Bart because I think we'll get more from more pressure on him than a zeus vote.

this post does look bad for a jb!snike world and looks good for a jb!athena world because at this point Athena has been one of the primary people casing him and hes not even trying to defend himself to athena.

On 4/15/2018 at 3:52 PM, athena_57 said:

I liked JB's post. I don't agree with the weapons case, but whatever, I can see why he would have issues. I agree with the nightmare/mack case (and vote) and I like his points on Eclipse, who I myself am still on the fence about. His cases are fine, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of them. Following closely how this progresses, but my vote can go elsewhere for now.

##Unvote

I reread Kirsche and Junk and after actually looking at the blob of text Junk posted in detail I dislike it. The attack on Refa makes no sense, the attacks on me I've already mentioned and his stuff on Kirsche is bad, as discussed by others. Kirsche is looking better, Junk is looking worse and I agree with the notion there's likely scum among them. Good chance of scum, good associative reads, needs to be pressured into content, what more do you want from a vote?

##Vote: RADicate

I'm interested in seeing what RAD brings to the table, mostly because Junk has been tunneling and a wider view would help a ton in reading this slot.

Even if this switch were bad, it is from one scum to another, and im having trouble making sense of that strategically

On 4/15/2018 at 3:58 PM, athena_57 said:

This isn't a hard rule but when a townie is mislynched, I'm going to assume scum had a hand in it, albeit small. This doesn't necessarily mean it's a "scumpowered" wagon, but it feels to me like at least 1 scummember would either jump on the opportunity or is the source of this wagon. None of the other people on the early wagon (so votes before 1 hour till phase end) really bothered me, so PoE led me to JB. In fact, it's the biggest reason I'm still leaning scum on him.

Do you agree with this reasoning or do you think all 4 "non-consolidation" votes are confused townies?

And if you do agree, who else besides JB makes sense as scum FYPOV?

i feel like not sticking to the read change on JB from the last post doesn't make sense with Junko's flip from a strategic standpoint especially since athena has been one of the main pushers of the wagon and this phrasing reads genuine to me

On 4/16/2018 at 5:21 PM, athena_57 said:

^^^ This

Also, Junk subbed in, but only in name so far, he hasn't actually done anything. (I'm not blaming him, just saying I don't count it as him subbing back in)

The Eclipse case is fine I guess, but I'm just not feeling it as much. I do however feel strongly about Kirsche vs Junk and am certain as well there is scum among them, like no way it would have exploded like this with the misrep-accusations being thrown back and forth otherwise. I dislike the Kirsche case and feel the longer the stronger about Junk being scum.

My vote stays on Junk and I will definitely be looking at what caused the debacle of the past few hours, this smells like a really weird attempt to save Junk.

Literally like his next post is this incredibly hard to take back and sensical argument where he take's kirsche's side of the argument.

47 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Yes. Yes, they absolutely have. Yet, people are still listening to you because you just act confident despite having no idea what the hell you're doing. I really hope you're wolf and don't pull this as village. You come in here, case people that no one in their right mind should want to lynch, are consistently wrong, and get called village for it. You actually tried to lynch noobtown Sully yesterday, and championed a confirmed wolf counterwagon. I have no clue why anyone reads you village, and it's among the most pathetic things I've seen on this site.

I self-voted for memes, and that's the most interesting thing you guys have to talk about? Wow. @Killthestory I'm playing differently because this is SF; I play more seriously here than what you've seen at MU.

@Refa

Makaze's flip-flopping is wolfy. I don't care that you've had games where you've been wrong the entire time; this game has had easy moments. It was quite clear that kirsche/Junko held a wolf, but Makaze resisted that. It was quite clear that Sully was noobtown, but Makaze found a way to be wrong there. It was quite clear to most of us that eclipse should not have been a play, but Makaze found a way to be wrong there. It's quite clear that I'm villager, but Makaze has found a way to be wrong. It's quite clear that mass claiming today would be horrible, but Makaze has found a way to be wrong. It's wolfy. You guys are just desensitized to it because good wolves know how to push stupid bullshit but make people think that they genuinely believe it. Makaze's either just a wolf, or among the worst villagers I have ever seen in my life. I'm leaning the former.

I read the beginning of D1 where Walrein was posting, and it looked villagery to me enough that I don't want to lynch there. I think Kill's probably villa and just having a horrible game. Snike has had enough villagery moments especially with his defensive post earlier that I don't want to really lynch him either.

I'm voting athena. He was wolfy AF D1, to hell with the bussing and other shit. Also, eclipse was targeted for a kill N1. Her main pushes were athena/zeus (now Makaze), and there was the debacle from page 9-13 where zeus/Bibbon/Fable/athena got into a huge slapfight. Bibbon was villager, Fable's off the table, so that leaves zeus/athena unless you tell me it was all a bunch of villagers fighting. I doubt it though; I think zeus was either a caught wolf or athena was taking advantage of an easy push. If for some horrible reason the Makaze slot is a villager, athena's usually the wolf jumping on an easy push there. Or zeus was just caught which would explain why Makaze has been open wolfing for quite some time now. I wanted to wait until him/Walrein posted, but this village has no idea what the fuck it's doing so just kill like him, Evan, and Makaze if you guys lynch me today.

##Vote: athena

I don't think that town!Omega would come across this slimy and would not try to get me lynched instead of Athena without a case on him, I don't think this actually makes any sense from a townie standpoint even if you happen to be right about athena.

10 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Tell me how Refa switching from Kirsche to Junko is scum. There is absolutely 0 reason to bus in that situation when you can pull off a mislynch like that.

lol keep reading:

8 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

i don't think refa is scum...

 

8 hours ago, Makaze said:

it's a joke

he could be the itp but if he is there is no way we catch him so im not going to worry unless we get down to like 5 left

 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

I don't think that town!Omega would come across this slimy and would not try to get me lynched instead of Athena without a case on him, I don't think this actually makes any sense from a townie standpoint even if you happen to be right about athena.

When the fuck have I ever made a case? I literally came into the thread, yelled that Junko/kirsche held a wolf with 0 reasons, and literally voted LG yesterday with #noreasoning at the bottom of my post. I only gave a reason for Junko/kirsche near EoD when people started talking about them being V/V.

[EvanManManMan]

6 hours ago, Makaze said:

this is a good argument

and im not fond of role based clears

this all depends on EvilManManMan to contribute new thoughts. @EvanManManMan

Are you asking me my thoughts on Gaius's behavior here or is this a general statement?

[Makaze]

13 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Makaze makes a bunch of walls but outside of them it feels like he is intentionally being dense.

He is throwing shade at Refa and he even doubted Kill being town. It doesn't take a brain to realize these two are both obvious town and are not worth taming these actions against.

I'm not sure what is bothering you about me being willing to consider a world where I'm wrong about Snike

Also by the numbers it makes sense for there to be a fifth member and im trying to figure out who makes sense in that team

i don't think there are many options

if you look at my progression on kirsche you'll see I have had all kinds of reasons for tinfoiling about junko/kirsche being scum/scum, i don't see any world where you don't think im being genuine

but i really think it's just snike atp, im just not willing to not consider the alternatives, which i have said don't make sense

[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Are you asking me my thoughts on Gaius's behavior here or is this a general statement?

its a general statement im saying I want to see you casing someone

casing me is not what i had in mind but its better than outing because people believed your claim

[Makaze]

Based on the powers it looks like the town is very weak compared to the scumteam so it's possible there is a 4 man scum team and all of this is just unnecessary

but we need Walrein to claim to get a full picture of what's going on

[EvanManManMan]

9 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Yep, this is why Makaze is wolfy. Lol @ his "I'M 100% SURE OMEGA IS THE PLAY GUYS" when he has been pulling this garbage and being wrong for some time now, and an even bigger lol @ people sheeping him. Most of this village is desensitized to his bullshit, and if's he a wolf we have probably lost due to the horrible villa reads on him. This village was also reading Shinori V for bad reasons, and apparently it's a good idea to repeat the process.

Btw: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/15464-Stranger-Things-Mafia?p=2181932&viewfull=1#post2181932

Here's me self-voting D3 in a recent game as villa. I didn't say explicitly say it was a joke vote in either here or there; I did it as a joke and it's well within my personality.

I can definitely see Makaze being a wolf. Ifyou are so certain of it though why are you not pushing him?

 

And I'm not using your self meta. That's weak.

[Makaze]

6 minutes ago, Omega. said:

When the fuck have I ever made a case? I literally came into the thread, yelled that Junko/kirsche held a wolf with 0 reasons, and literally voted LG yesterday with #noreasoning at the bottom of my post. I only gave a reason for Junko/kirsche near EoD when people started talking about them being V/V.

Okay my bad.

Why would you intentionally vote someone without trying to actually get them lynched?