School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[BT.]

I'm "needlessly defeatist" because I'm resigned to this fate even through all the games I've played here. I just wanted an interesting role. I can claim of you want me to. You will understand why I am willing to be lynched after I claim.

Yeah, I can't, I don't think I want to lynch this. I agree with the sentiment that his suspicions are bad but I can see them coming from town. Hey Mancer, who's scum? Is Mancer scum? Why? I think the "scumslip" is insignificant at best because you're assuming that [x] scum numbers [x] figured out there was a cult specifically [x] and wanted to reap towncred immediately instead of just pubclaiming numbers guy. Lots of assumptions. On the other end of the field you have "townie who rolled numbers guy, thought about it and convinced himself that there's a cult". I'd argue that the latter is a more likely conclusion. This is the player-related reason I was talking about 24 hours ago.

[BT.]

EBWOP: "Hey Mancer, who's scum? Is Randa scum?"

[Prims]

RE: Gorf: my problem with J isn't "not posting about something that's relevant", it's him finding something relevant, stating he did so and then doing nothing about it. I've said this 1000 times but town!J should be looking into Randa/Refa if they're odd to him but he just lets it go.

This isn't lazy but actually scummy for a vet to do. Comparatively, Mancer is scumhunting. It's not just a case of "J was too busy" because he was posting about problems he had but not doing anything about them.

Gorf, where should your vote be right now, since it's still on BT? Also "there's scum on this wagon" is a weird thing to say when it's two people and you go on to not have a real issue with either of us. If you think Refa seems like town!Refa from last game, what're your problems with him?

RE: BT: There were definitely examples of J "not liking a bunch of things/finding them odd" that he could have found himself by going through his own posts. If this was like the middle of Day 2 I'd be more willing to see this as town frustration but there's not a very big sample size so it's just nitpicking at how I presented the case. Also disliked him bringing Randa disagreeing with me into his case for support, it's propping up his case with something ultimately irrelevant and if we're going to assume Randa not agreeing with me makes my case worse then you'd think BBM agreeing with me would make me more reasonable. But BBM just doesn't exist to him in his post, even though BBM is agreeing with a case that J seems to consider falsified.

Also I can't tell why Mancer is town to you. It's not really hard for scum to post a sob story and also if he's mafia he'd probably have a fakeclaim in mind as well. imo people going on about Mancer being badtown are just WIFOMing themselves, meta research says overdramatics in response to being called out can indeed be scum!Mancer (lol pokemon adventures was a game that happened), so yeah it's scummy sorry. tbh I'm probably just going to be on him by the end of the day since there's not much interest in lynching J at this point.

agree most active posters here are town, though with BBM/BT on the nuller side. SB isn't going hard enough to be scum!SB and I don't think I'd support the Randa wagon ever. I still think Elie is scummy too but none of my scumreads are actively posting.

This post ended up being a dumb train of consciousness post, whoops.

[Prims]

@Gorf/Larsa: why is J town on meta?

[MancerNecro]

Urgh was busy yesterday and woke up to so many pages of content. I've read through everything already hit reading so many posts at once may make my memory a little hazy and stuff.

I am inclined to think that Refa is town at this point (and it's not because he defended me a little). He seems to have done a lot of thinking and analysis on the game. His playstyle has also been quite different from how he's played in Qprogue as well.

I don't have an opinion on Prims at the moment. I can follow the train of thought of most of his posts although I can understand several of the players points about the fact that Prims should really have been voting me instead of voting J.

Given how fast the wagon on me blew up, I am inclined to think that there really are scum on it, going for a really easy mislynch onto me. In particular, SB and BBM catches my eye. I don't like how BBM seems to be insisting that I am really "paranoid" and spreading paranoia around town? I fail to see how I am doing that. SB seems to have jumped around quite a lot. By this point, he has already went to vote for the next person that town has their attention on which makes me think that he might not be town.

Regarding Randa: I agree that it would be kind of stupid for scum to make such a gambit and claim Numbers and stuff but the fact that Randa immediately insisted that the setup is 10/3/2 instead of 10/4/1 or 10/3/1/1 pings me. Imo, the latter two setups are more common setups and are more likely to exist. The former setup feels almost like a multi-faction type of setup and I get the feeling that eclipse would have told us about it if there were more than one faction in the game.

Regarding suspecting Rapier but still voting Randa: Scum can vote park on their buddies as well. It's a way of distancing themselves from their buddies too. If their buddies seem to be taking too much fire, they can just go along with the lynch on their buddy. There're no content posts from Rapier yet but he has appeared to make prod dodging posts so I believe that he may be scum lurking at this point in time.

Larsa: My playstyle varies quite a little depending on how much I like my role and how motivated I am to play the game so your point is moot...

I haven't read J in full detail yet (I'm sorry, I know I said I would but I was busy yesterday) but I will do it soon.

##Unvote: Randa, ##Vote: BBM

I am confident that this is scum right now.

[#HBC Larsa]

To be fair, I don't take self consideration on players meta into account. Sowwy, but that point is the real moot. You actively trying to defend such a small point tells me otherwise in your initial claim of "Just lynch me." Actions aren't aligning with your requests or claims.

Also, why the set up speculation still?

Responding to the rest in a mo'.

[#HBC Larsa]

@Gorf/Larsa: why is J town on meta?

I'm by no means 100% sold on it, but just overall style here is indicative of what I've seen J as town, rather than a more lurky, conniving scum J. Town J is always long-winded, and very eleborative on the points he chooses to go into to. I need to re-visit his posts and I'll respond to this better because I still haven't had the time to re-read him yet.

[#HBC Larsa]

Also to tack on to what Prims said about the "There's scum on this wagon" post, that's another one of those blanket scum posts I abhor so much. Classical tells say scum!Mancer.

[Donald Trump]

##Unvote

##Vote Prims

While I hash out a proper Mancer read.

There are no votals in this game, take 1?

Mancer (3): Randa, BBM, Larsa

Randa (3): Rapier, Poly, Mancer

Prims (2): J, BT

J (2): Refa, Prims

BBM (2): SB

Navelplius (1): Elieson

BT (1): Gorf

Not voting: Navelplius

Voting anyone, Gorf?

ahh shit u right

vote mancer

[eclipse]

BRB, abusing my powers as mod to ban Elieson

Clipsey votals, take 2!

BBM (3): SB, Mancer

#HBC J (2): Refa, Prims

Mancer (4): Randa, BBM, #HBC Gorf, #HBC Larsa

Navelplius (1): Elieson

Prims (2): #HBC J, BT.

Randa (1): Rapier, Poly

Not voting: Navelplius, ScarletFlame

You have a little over 25 hours until Day 1 ends. If I screwed up votals, you're hallucinating lemme know (BTW, mass modkills for all of you for not paying attention to my votals, as I missed ScarletFlame)!

[Donald Trump]

RE: Gorf: my problem with J isn't "not posting about something that's relevant", it's him finding something relevant, stating he did so and then doing nothing about it. I've said this 1000 times but town!J should be looking into Randa/Refa if they're odd to him but he just lets it go.This isn't lazy but actually scummy for a vet to do. Comparatively, Mancer is scumhunting. It's not just a case of "J was too busy" because he was posting about problems he had but not doing anything about them.Gorf, where should your vote be right now, since it's still on BT? Also "there's scum on this wagon" is a weird thing to say when it's two people and you go on to not have a real issue with either of us. If you think Refa seems like town!Refa from last game, what're your problems with him?RE: BT: There were definitely examples of J "not liking a bunch of things/finding them odd" that he could have found himself by going through his own posts. If this was like the middle of Day 2 I'd be more willing to see this as town frustration but there's not a very big sample size so it's just nitpicking at how I presented the case. Also disliked him bringing Randa disagreeing with me into his case for support, it's propping up his case with something ultimately irrelevant and if we're going to assume Randa not agreeing with me makes my case worse then you'd think BBM agreeing with me would make me more reasonable. But BBM just doesn't exist to him in his post, even though BBM is agreeing with a case that J seems to consider falsified.Also I can't tell why Mancer is town to you. It's not really hard for scum to post a sob story and also if he's mafia he'd probably have a fakeclaim in mind as well. imo people going on about Mancer being badtown are just WIFOMing themselves, meta research says overdramatics in response to being called out can indeed be scum!Mancer (lol pokemon adventures was a game that happened), so yeah it's scummy sorry. tbh I'm probably just going to be on him by the end of the day since there's not much interest in lynching J at this point.agree most active posters here are town, though with BBM/BT on the nuller side. SB isn't going hard enough to be scum!SB and I don't think I'd support the Randa wagon ever. I still think Elie is scummy too but none of my scumreads are actively posting.This post ended up being a dumb train of consciousness post, whoops.

@top two paragraphs: incorrect. that goes along with the whole "theres no proof in the absence of proof" thing. like, what if he was just kinda chiming in n like thinking out loud? ill find myself doin that every now n then about shit n then droppin it when i have the time to analyze it cuz its not worth lookin at. sometimes ill do it to get a reaction n then ill think the reaction is cool, so i wont carry it over. its worth noting and questioning... but not worth calling scum over, ya feel me? plus iirc it was really early in the Day. like, its just not immediately suspicious, in the same way that a player who doesnt substantiate much isnt immediately scummy. also mancer is scumhunting, sure, but like the shit hes calling scummy is ridiculous and paints a hard "dumb or scum" picture.

@third paragraph when i said "wagon" i meant "the wave of suspicion." i dont remember what exactly tipped me off but i think it was the sudden vigor about it and the fact that it was in direct correlation with the suspicion that j was hinting about with em. it reminded me a lot of refa v larsa but i dont put it past people to be able to emulate their town meta.

[eclipse]

Playerlist (With ISOs)

• Rapier
• Poly
• ScarletFlame
• Randa
• #HBC Larsa
• MancerNecro
• #HBC Gorf
• #HBC J
• Prims
• Refa
• BBM
• Navelpluis
• SB.
• BT.
• Elieson
• Your ever-loving, most gracious and beautiful host, eclipse

Important Links:

Day 1 Start

Night 1 start

Day 2 start

Edited November 3, 2014 by eclipse

[eclipse]

You guys are probably wondering why the ISO links are separate. The browser I normally use completely screws up any ISO link that contains symbols, so in the past, I'd have to open up Firefox (now Pale Moon) to edit the first post. By separating those links, I should be able to edit the first post much more easily!

[MancerNecro]

Am I the only one who noticed that Gorf just randomly voted me out of nowhere. The only instance where he actually talks about me, it was only one sentence. He never talks about me at any other part of the game. In that same post where he voted me, he did not even resummarise or state any case against me.

Are you scum, Gorf?

[MancerNecro]

Also, Randa's completely disappeared now that our discussion has moved off of him. Evidence of lurk scum especially since Randa's activity is so spammy and active (from what I saw in Qprogue).

I really believe that a Randa/BBM/Gorf scum team might exist. If there's a fourth scum, Rapier is most likely it.

[Prims]

I don't have an opinion on Prims at the moment. I can follow the train of thought of most of his posts although I can understand several of the players points about the fact that Prims should really have been voting me instead of voting J.

Am I scum for it, then? A lot of my "train of thought" has been against you, and the notion that it's understandable, especially when you agree with people not understanding me, seems unrealistic. I'm not even sure why you brought this up in the first place since you're not supporting or disagreeing with my lynch. Also saying you're "confident that BBM is scum" because you don't see BBM's case is absurd and poorly-explained imo. Why does BBM accusing you of paranoia make you confident he's scum?

tbh I feel like the J case is beating a dead horse at this point; I do at least understand where Gorf is coming from. Frustrated because I was expecting J to be around to back-and-forth with me but what can you do.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

[Refa]

@Refa: Think about it though, what's town motive in making a role call like that? If you pay attention to the game...there's no need for fluff posts like that. 1) It's feigning actual content. 2) The desired effect is protown recognition. 3) There is no real threat for an RVS hammer, if it did happen...then by all means someone is either hammered ass drunk or stupid.

Stopping an RVS hammer? I agree that it's a misguided effort (to say the least), but my point was that from my experiences, I could see it coming from town.

So all of my recent reads are vibes gg. I also literally feel that Prims/Mancer/BBM are the scumteam based on interactions before flips I don't even know how to explain so uhhh

BBM is weird because he's kind of tunnelling hard on Mancer, even if I agree with his case, and his numbers rolespec just looked kind of like he was padding his posts to look more productive when really he hasn't done anything. There's pretty much no interactions with the rest of the game in his posts and it bothers me because I'd be expecting more from him.

Mancer is pretty much the same as before. Don't actually know who I want to vote atm. Will respond to Refa in my next post.

Say SB, why are you assuming a 3 man scumteam? Wait, don't answer that, I got your back IS BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM CAUGHT YOU REDHANDED ON THAT SCUMSLIP CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELF GO REFA. Seriously though, I don't get it. I agree that BBM tunneling on Mancer is bad (and his lack of interactions as well), but I thought that the numbers rolespec was a joke. In all honesty, you probably wouldn't have even had to respond to me after making this post. Pretty sure you wouldn't be falling back on vibes and having a hard time expressing your townreads as scum.

I dropped my early reads pretty quickly because I didn't have much conviction in them, I was using it more as a tool to press people to develop my reads because I didn't really have any strong (scum) ones at that point and the responses I got out of people were good enough to make me think that they were town or at least be enough to stop voting them.

Hey you totally didn't read my post right. The whole reason you were at the bottom despite me having a stronger case on you over Mancer was because I wasn't sure if it was you being unwilling to stick to your cases (scummy) or just having weaker reads because ED1 (not scummy).

J: I kinda agree with prims that you spent more time trying to discredit his case than to actually show us why prims is scum. also just because i didnt get a sense of passive aggressiveness from your post doesn't mean there wasn't any. it just means that i didn't see it and the rest of the game didn't comment on prims thoughts.

Refa: I still disagree with some of the logic, but overall I still think you're towny.

YES, thank you for detailing what bothered me about J that I just couldn't put into words. I alluded to having similar thoughts in my post, but you actually worded those thoughts A++. That being said, apparently J does that sort of thing as town so the assignment was only worth 5 town points.

I assume you disagree with my scumread on you. If you're townreading me, you should like respond to my case dude. I'll even give you some incentive to do so in my next post wink wink nudge nudge sparkle sparkle say no more say no more.

Refa- it`s difficult to explain but like... Mancer when he`s town has a lot of suspicions but they feel like him just trying to find something. This feels like throwing around suspicions for the sake of it and blowing up overly specific to a huge extent. He does that as town too but it just feels different. I`m struggling to explain it in a way that doesn`t have `his tone and style don`t feel right` but that`s basically what it is. As far as ascribing scum intent to everything Mancer has done. That`s kind of correct and wrong at the same time. It`s not necessarily all of Mancer`s content that seem wrong so much as the general feeling of all his posts. shrug (not scumri I sware)

larsa is probably town cuz I have a difficult time seeing him go I LOVE PLAYING SCUM on a site where he`s still relatively new, as scum

OK, so I understand why you're voting Mancer, but I can't get anything out of a read that I can't even comprehend. FMPOV, he's playing like he usually does (minus his latest post, which did have some serious issues), and if this is his scum play then damn coulda fooled me. Anyways, let's just say that Mancer is scum...he's still just one player, you know? In past town games where you tunneled, it was generally because you had a gajillion townreads and your tunneling was a symptom of that and PoE. Here, it just seems like you're going after Mancer and willfully ignoring the rest of the game.

Hey, BBM. Hey, listen. Guess what. I FUCKING LOVE PLAYING SCUM. HOLY SHIT BEING SCUM IS LIKE BEING YOUR OWN TOWN FACTION AND EVERYONE IN IT IS A VIGILANTE MASON. WHY CAN'T I ROLL SCUM MORE I DON'T ROLL SCUM ENOUGH THESE DAYS SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM BBM'S CUM META SCUM.

The sad thing is, the next time I roll scum I'll totally have had it coming to me for that but it was so worth it.

but the conclusions that are being jumped to are kinda weird. theres probz scum chillin on this wagon. my gut says refa is most likely but his approach feels eerily similar to refa vs larsa in guitar mafia, so idk.

I can't be chilling like a villain, because I'm the motherfucking Hiro Protagonist. :3 Seriously though, would like that explanation of J's meta so I can at least see where your townread on him is coming from. Is it the same as Larsa's meta read (about him being very longwinded as town) or is there something more to it? Spoilers, I will be unvoting J very soon because I trust Larsa on this one but I'd still like that answer from you.

I don't have an opinion on Prims at the moment. I can follow the train of thought of most of his posts although I can understand several of the players points about the fact that Prims should really have been voting me instead of voting J.

Given how fast the wagon on me blew up, I am inclined to think that there really are scum on it, going for a really easy mislynch onto me. In particular, SB and BBM catches my eye. I don't like how BBM seems to be insisting that I am really "paranoid" and spreading paranoia around town? I fail to see how I am doing that. SB seems to have jumped around quite a lot. By this point, he has already went to vote for the next person that town has their attention on which makes me think that he might not be town.

Regarding suspecting Rapier but still voting Randa: Scum can vote park on their buddies as well. It's a way of distancing themselves from their buddies too. If their buddies seem to be taking too much fire, they can just go along with the lynch on their buddy. There're no content posts from Rapier yet but he has appeared to make prod dodging posts so I believe that he may be scum lurking at this point in time.

##Unvote: Randa, ##Vote: BBM

I am confident that this is scum right now.

Why would you want Prims to vote you instead of J? Not only does this not make sense from Prims' point of view (considering his explanation that you haven't even bothered to address), but surely it would make even less sense FYPOV. Why are BBM/SB scum for having bad cases on you but Prims isn't (pretty sure his case on you is pretty similar to theirs, I dunno it wasn't my case so it was only an 8.8/10 skim before rereading in LYLO)? What do you think about the other votes on you? I agree about SB jumping around, but like his explanation was...decent and (more importantly) his post above his explanation was townie as fuck so...

I dunno, Mancer. Your explanation for your Rapier suspicion is actually really good but this post just raises so many more questions than it answers (kind of like Metal Gear Solid 2 ohohohoho). And where did the sudden confidence in BBM being scum come from after your tunnel on Randa for like the whole game?

To be fair, I don't take self consideration on players meta into account. Sowwy, but that point is the real moot. You actively trying to defend such a small point tells me otherwise in your initial claim of "Just lynch me." Actions aren't aligning with your requests or claims.

This is a legitimate point (about him asking to be lynched and then defending himself), but I'd say his post would be like 80% defense as demotivated scum. JUST MY TAKE ON IT COMMENT LIKE SUBSCRIBE DONATE TO MY PATREON.

@third paragraph when i said "wagon" i meant "the wave of suspicion." i dont remember what exactly tipped me off but i think it was the sudden vigor about it and the fact that it was in direct correlation with the suspicion that j was hinting about with em. it reminded me a lot of refa v larsa but i dont put it past people to be able to emulate their town meta.

This is factually incorrect. I don't have a town meta, I just emulate my scum meta as town. :3

Prims' last response reads as so townie to me so I don't even know what to think on that front. Like when I read SB's post, I was like "wow, this is actually a really good point, I'd totally sheep it" and then I read Prims' post and KAZAAM I no longer have the will to sheep. Honestly, I suck at reading the dude, so I'll just let you suckers hardworking townies do it for me. "So proactive, very townie, much wow"- What everyone is undoubtedly thinking about me

[Prims]

refa do you consider bbm/mancer buddies plausible

[Refa]

Please page me later about that Prims.

Am I the only one who noticed that Gorf just randomly voted me out of nowhere. The only instance where he actually talks about me, it was only one sentence. He never talks about me at any other part of the game. In that same post where he voted me, he did not even resummarise or state any case against me.

Are you scum, Gorf?

Gorf: "Damn Mancer, you caught me with your scum hunting expertise. I, Gorfhannigan Gorfson Gorfenheimmer III AKA Gorf am in fact scum. Please lynch me now, I'm so ashamed of my wrongdoings.

OK, apologies for the needless snark (it was just so fun to write on my end), but what kind of response are you expecting here? It was bad when Elie did this at the beginning of the game, and guess what it's not any better now!

Also, Randa's completely disappeared now that our discussion has moved off of him. Evidence of lurk scum especially since Randa's activity is so spammy and active (from what I saw in Qprogue).

I really believe that a Randa/BBM/Gorf scum team might exist. If there's a fourth scum, Rapier is most likely it.

You're making it really hard for me to make my telegraphed from a mile away vote on Randa (seriously, it was more telegraphed than a Falcon Punch), you know that? I'm scumreading the dude too, but this is just really contrived; dude's probably just busy being a super high school level athlete or something.

Would like an explanation on why these people make sense as a scumteam (I'm scumreading them individually is not an acceptable response).

Meh, was going to vote Randa here but it doesn't feel right now. I'll decide on whom to vote after some answers from Mancer. For now, though,

##Unvote

[Prims]

hey speaking of elie, guess where the vig should be tonight

[Refa]

hey speaking of elie, guess where the vig should be tonight

larsa because the vig was actually the sk the whole time

[charlie_]

suddenly, wallposts

will catch up when i wake up properly

[Randa]

Sorry I sorta disappeared. I was going to post more then I realized it was Halloween and got drunk instead. Anyways I would usually say I'm gonna catch up, but I kinda have a game today so it'll be another like 8/9 hours before I can post, possibly later dependening on other RL things.

[BBM]

obligatory Randa are you even 21

have to leave in 2 minutes, so

Mancer`s case on me is lol OMGUS and basically saying `no you`re wrong so you`re scum`

other than that I kind of agree with BT tbh most of the active posters seem town. Gorf is the only one that stands out to me for not really committing to either Mancer or Elie as a suspicion, especially as Elie is his only own scumread and he`s just like `yeah I`ll wait and see`. I don`t know why he`s still on an RVS vote.

[Elieson]

So Halloween yesterday was cool. Today I'm at a con with Tyler but I'll be leaving at the 4 hours til phase end mark. Yesterday I packed up my office and we are moving too, so its just a bad couple of days for me. Also trick or treating with lex went well~ That's the report on Eliedad.

---

Quick thoughts

Why is Refa acting like spazzy Shinori/Elie? Calling out things good enough but the sarcasm is plugging up the posts.

Gut says Prims is scum. Not nearly enough posts with effort typical to his town meta.

IMO flailing town is flailing, and mancer is being pretty obnoxious about his efforts. Tho Randa is town too? I'm leaaaaaning Randa over Mancer based on the claim but tbh I think they are both town. Mamcer plz explain why what I've done is scummy in like a bullet list or something.

Feels about SB since he pestered me before. I don't understand why he was so persistent with my efforts, and I'm not sure what his read on me is, just that he was inquisitive towards me.

Whoever the dangan ronpa hbc is, keep it up. I like those posts.