Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Paperblade]

Kaoz lives in Europe

[Excellen Browning]

Bizz you promised us some insights quite a few hours back. I see you here now, so where's your post?

[Percivalé]

Bizz you promised us some insights quite a few hours back. I see you here now, so where's your post?

shhhh I'm making them

also it probably won't be one post but a series of posts, I'm going by each page

[Shinori]

I will be away at the moment. Playing Tales of Graces f. FINALLY.

[Elieson]

Very well then, think of it as part of the RVS situation and let it continue. Its not like anything game-changing happened.

Wait wait wait. Is this a "Oh umm, yea. RVS, yea let's go with that"? Because that's what it looks like.

You found him suspicious, and said so yourself. It's not RVS if you are voting for someone suspicious.

[Percivalé]

Hmmm, how about discussions on which stages we should be going to? Would that be a good idea?

Other people have been addressing this and I just wanted to add that I would rather we just hold off on discussing that for now. It's not only that it's better to keep this information from the mafia, but imo I prefer to avoid setup-related discussion when it's unnecessary because it's distracting for the town, and people can speculate on the game freely without actually providing hard opinions on players and the like.

I never said I didn't like RVS, in fact, I'm not really sure how else you're supposed to start a game with a day start. I just wanted to kick off discussion.

I started off playing games with day starts, and typically it's a RVS party until people start getting picky about which vote-trains start building up, people question people for questioning it, whatever. I'd say that this RVS stage didn't last very long at all from what I've been seeing.

Unfortunately for you morons you've reduced RVS to a matter of course, a cliche, something you always do. Aka everyone here knows how it goes and plays along, making you have no scumtells. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FUCKING TELL THEM ITS A RANDOM VOTE WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOOOOOOOOU. I haven't exactly seen a mafia getting lynched D1 in games where you people pulled a mass RVS.

Uh? Examples? I think you're being a little hasty, but I understand it when patterns get kind of monotonous

I just don't really know what's you're saying though, then? How else do you propose we start the day? If you're unhappy with the way everyone's doing it, you should provide some ideas.

Excellen, RVS doesn't happen for the entirety of D1. Eventually, people begin consolidating on targets by the end of D1, based on what is determined through the RVS.

I still wonder how the heck we're meant to even get anywhere without anything to discuss. I'd like to see you propose some other method, to be honest, if you think RVS is a stupid thing to do.

It's not that the RVS itself provides a lynch target--it's the discussion that eventually evolves from it. Voting is how the town gets information and sparks discussion needed for eventually determining the target of suspicion(s) for the day.

You're being kind of aggressive, but I think that's what Excellen's playstyle is supposed to evoke from people.

You can't seriously expect to lynch maf D1, it's just unlikely.

... Uh, it's unlikely, but that doesn't mean you can adopt that kind of attitude. It gives people some sort of reason/excuse to be lethargic D1, and it gives people the belief that nothing can be gained D1 if scum 'can't be lynched' WHICH ISN'T TRUE and players can be hopeful if they want. A productive D1 is the key to not repeating D1 (no-information days/mislynches, etc)

No wonder you guys do so bad with that kind of shit attitude.

I wouldn't say that; D1 scum lynches have kinda gotten more common as far as I can see.

It's a logistical point. Given what little information we have (ie, none), and the fact that there are more town than scum, means it is likely to be a mislynch. Likely is the key word, and I never said it's impossible to lynch maf D1.

Also, I don't like how abrasive you're being already. It's making me concerned.

1. Likely to be a mislynch, but I've been seeing a lot of D1 scum lynches here lately and it's not too hard to accomplish imo but it does involve quite a bit of luck

2. The tone of the bottom line bothers me.

##Vote: eclipse because I wanna vote you.

RVS is the only way to go now! Excellen, do you have a plan?

You post this after serious discussion happened above you? Did you read the thread before posting, or were you just not interested in what anyone was talking about? And was that a snide remark towards Excellen?

Early read/vibe(s) so far after more probing of page three: Nag is town

mixed feelings on marth and manix

META: Excellen tends to say things that frustrate people and I think it's how he evokes reactions so I'm not really feeling anything strange from him yet

[Excellen Browning]

I'm really curious why you didn't say anything about proto's posts.

[Iris]

Excellen, I'm really curious why you didn't respond to Bizz on her quotes regarding you. I appreciate that you're noticing things, albeit incorrectly, but she did mention him in the first quote (which covers his second post, since both relate to stages, speaking of which, I don't think that we should discuss them now, maybe later in the day phase). She didn't mention eclipse or Kay but I'm certain it's cause they didn't say anything scummy / out of the ordinary. oops, if this is a reaction test for bizz i'm sorry for ruining it ):

I've literally made a post every time I've been around; I've just been a bit busy today. Re: Marth wagon--what he's doing is strange but at this point I feel like he's more likely to be town trying some gambit and not doing a good job than scum. The wagon may just be a D1 town argument, especially since most of the votes are aimed at getting Marth to explain himself. Not much to say on it at the moment.

Yeah, I know Psych has a very unpredictable style, but I want to know why he made those posts and what he thinks now. They just struck me as strange and I don't want to ignore them just because it's Psych.

I'm not accusing you of not existing (haha, that's funny, coming from me); I just think that you're trying to fit in, etc. generally a scumtell. This post isn't helping too much. Okay, I'm almost convinced that Subieko is scum. Vote stays for now.

wow am i tunneling? am i buddying with bizz, lmao what am i doing; maybe i'll have more thoughts once people post more, and i can get better reads

(1) What does everyone else think of Subieko? o:

(2) And what about Marth? o:

[BBM]

Hmm, I'm not really getting anything from Subieko. I think Marth's a townie being stupid. Marth, if we think so alike, did you read my post fully where I said you should stop doing what you're doing? It makes people suspicious of you, and if you're town you're taking up time people could be devoting towards hunting scum.

There isn't really a point to making a randomvote at this juncture, and half of the people haven't posted yet, so I'm going to wait to see what they say before putting down a real vote.

[Excellen Browning]

Excellen, I'm really curious why you didn't respond to Bizz on her quotes regarding you. I appreciate that you're noticing things, albeit incorrectly, but she did mention him in the first quote (which covers his second post, since both relate to stages, speaking of which, I don't think that we should discuss them now, maybe later in the day phase). She didn't mention eclipse or Kay but I'm certain it's cause they didn't say anything scummy / out of the ordinary.

They weren't questions meant to get answered and I wanted her to say something about proto's post because I think there's a huge scumtell there.

[Percivalé]

excellen, I'm not done scanning over the entire thread yet. All of those posts are from D3. Kay/Eclipses posts to that point were small and didn't leave enough of an impression for me to comment on them, and I pretty much addressed Proto's point; he only mostly talked about stage stuff and he's a null read unless he doesn't start posting more soon (keep in mind I haven't done more than skimmed through pages 4-5 yet)

When I get back from my walk I'll continue where I started from

[Percivalé]

there's not really much I can say until I'm done with the rest of the thread

I appreciate your pushiness though, because it's giving me a town read from you

[Psych]

Also, 5 votes on Marth are quite a bit (even when the hammer is 13) less than half a day into the phase, which makes me think that at least one of the votes on him right now is mafia sheeping and wagoning.

There definitely was something up with that wagon that I don't like. Way too fast on Day 1 for my tastes.

Good Going BBM, my thoughts exactly, except I think there must be 2 mafia out of the 5 players targeting me. Its weird, how we think similar.

I get the feeling there's 4-5, but I definitely feel like there's a third party.

Also, after thinking more, I'm become a little suspicious of Psych. I didn't think much of his early posts at first because I figured he was just screwing around, but on closer inspection they're odd.Maybe these were just joke posts, but why so focused on Excellen so early on? And why so convinced he won't live long if he's Town? This seems a bit too insistent for RVS. He hasn't posted since the start of the thread though; I want to know what he thinks of Excellen now that more discussion has happened.##Unvote##Vote: Psych

If you'll notice those posts are at around 6 AM after I had been up all night so I hold no responsibility for my actions. I just woke up twenty minutes ago.

Marth, wtf are you doing? Are you trying to get lynched right now. Are you a jester or some shit? There's a million ways to get a vote off on Blitz without picking up so much heat, and on top of that you're implying you have outside info as a reason as to why you should vote for him. If you do, why the hell would you throw that possibility out there?

This stood out to me as kinda scummy. If Marth flips scum, I'd do something about Helios. This looks like a way a scum buddy would try to warn his pal. I know in that other game Paper hosted where Bizz and I were scum, we couldn't talk during the day. So it's possible that the mafia can't talk during the day right now and Helios is trying to help Marth. Sure, probably Meta'ing, but still something to consider.

wow am i tunneling? am i buddying with bizz, lmao what am i doing; maybe i'll have more thoughts once people post more, and i can get better reads

Don't excuse yourself for tunneling or buddying or sheeping or whatever. If those are your true feelings, go with it. But you will need to say that and potentially back it up. If you do what Excellen did on the first page where he posted, then I voted Manix, then he voted Manix, well then you have some explaining to do. But don't apologize for something you think is right.

Also, I'm not gonna sit here and argue what the purpose of random voting stage is for, or how to best use it, or whatever. We know have several wagons and counter wagons to examine, a scummy few individuals, and a whole other mess of stuff.

##Vote Helios

I just can't let that post stand. It's practically screaming scum buddy to me.

Also I'll give a post with feelings in a couple hours when more people have posted, but right now Naglfar is seeming very pro town to me.

[charlie_]

on the contrary RVS is very helpful and you are being anti town for not seeing it

vote:Excellen

give me some reasons on why RVFS is bad while you are at it

Hey Flint. You seem super quick to assume Excellen is mafia, this could make Flint a mafia trying to setup a mislynch right from the start.

Hmmm, how about discussions on which stages we should be going to? Would that be a good idea?

This would give the mafia an edge - that is if they have any knowledge of who could be what role this early.

I think I am fine with picking randomly then, but in SSBB, didn't the mafia get break stage rules to some extent?

also, Unvote

##Vote:Naggy

I haven't read the last game, does anyone mind telling me how they exploited it?

##Vote: eclipse because I wanna vote you.

RVS is the only way to go now! Excellen, do you have a plan?

Way to put yourself in front of a firing squad. Even if you're a mafia bomb or something that's a horrible idea for the first day. If there were 4 mafia, I would rather have everyone alive at this point rather than someone dying to kill off a possibly harmless role. I don't know if there are any vanillas, a smash based mafia doesn't seem like that kind.

Good man.

Now that's out in the open, I'd like to warn you that in the last game I played with Excellen he acted like this and flipped town. It's not like he doesn't have good points either, if his posts were more civil you probably wouldn't be suspecting him at all right now. In fact, I've been running around shooting down arguments and topics of conversation I don't like more than he has. Does that make you feel suspicious of me at all? If not, I suggest you reconsider your vote.

Not really, you seem to be pretty town so far. Good to know about Excellen since I've never been in a game with him before.

Why should town lie this early then? Also 'faking suspicion' can be a cloak for the mafia too. You can 'fake it' then say you were just playing around, and we're all just in more confusion because, you know, that's an easy way to get by. Hell mafia could get away with it.

Nobody knows who is who but the mafia. You can't get a message through without it being read by 22 other players. If you announce that you are a power role, then if the mafia have their first target. First day is already bad enough is we mislynch, it only gets worse if the doctor or cop or someone paints a target on him or herself. Sure mafia can get away with it but if we throw everything out in the open we throw away the game.

Because let's see... part of the convo didn't involve me. Next off, I had nothing new to contribute. Whatever I would've said would basically have been already pointed out. You know, echoing.

That said, I now find it foolish to keep my vote on eclipse. Instead, I will change my vote. ##Unvote

##Vote: Blitz

I think I can see some small amount of reason behind this but not enough to really go gunning for him yet. Do you have some information of Blitz that the rest of us don't?

*facepalm*

You have got to be kidding me.

##Vote: Bluedoom

This more incentive? Because goddammit, this could be useful later on, and yet... *sigh*

I think this x5 is about enough reason for you to tell us why you voted Blitz.

If they were buddies, then Naglfar probably wouldn't have said anything about it in thread. It just wouldn't make sense to mention it in thread if they were, because they would have an outside communication that they could use instead.

ie; move along, nothing to see here

Is there likely to be any way of outside contact? The mafia probably has a way but maybe it's someone's specific role? Maybe lovers?

What is the point of the latter part of this post? I don't like it. It reminds me of myself in SFM where I tried to buddy up to you before I flipped scum to make you look bad.

This just compounds my suspicions of Marth. He even tried the "vote for me" card, except without the lynchproof bluff.

There's some other stuff, but I'm not too sure about it so I'll leave for now.

So far, I think that Nags, Excellen, Manix and Bizz are the most town (in order). Marth is coming across as scummy, and I'm wary of Flint. Everyone else is about neutral right now.

Anyone who wants to argue anything with me go ahead.

[Kay]

Why does it seem as if you don't give a fuck? I was originally planning on voting you earlier when you voted blitz with no reasoning but it's gone beyond that. ##Vote: Bluedoom You don't like blitz for a reason you won't say to us and that's why you want him lynched. Sorry if you want him lynched you need a better reason than that.

Any other opinions, Shinori? Or are you just showing up to jump on an easy bandwagon?

Guys, stop voting for Marth. It's obviously a reaction test, and he obviously doesn't want to say so because what good would a reaction test do if you announced it? Marth, give it up and admit it, poking at Blitzy isn't worth getting lynched over.

this is mafia, a game in which we use logic and reasoning and shit

He never said he wasn't using logic and reasoning. He's just not telling you what it is.

They weren't questions meant to get answered and I wanted her to say something about proto's post because I think there's a huge scumtell there.

If there's a huge scumtell, it's clearly not that obvious, since no one else mentioned it. If you think there's a scumtell, point it out. How do you expect to lynch scum if you keep this stuff to yourself? I think asking if something is a good idea in that way is a bit scummy, but that's not huge IMO.

[Shinori]

I have opinions I just haven't been around to state them. A lot of players said RVS isn't worthwhile as much anymore however it is still helpful and it does still happen when we don't have info, such as day starts. I don't feel like it's useless as it still gives us reactions because everyone reacts different in different situations. Now if every game went the same way and just was everyone putting a random vote on someone and then no talking, it would be worthless, that's not what happens though. So on this note I disagree with daigoji. I still find it beneficial and it will continue to be beneficial until otherwise someone finds a new way of progressing faster. RVS this time ended quickly because of the small argument that started and then bluedoom stating he though blitz was acting scummy and, if I remember correctly, said that there was another reason he had to be suspicious of him, yet didn't state what it was and has refused to state what it is even at the request of multiple players in the game. Therefore my vote sits on bluedoom until I've seen further notice as to why it should not sit on him, as far as I have seen he isn't being any less scummy than he was previously, instead he seems to be acting more suspicious than before in my eyes.

Also i didn't read anything after my post saying I was going to play Tales of Graces so I'll read it later. Just scanned quickly to see if anything was focused towards me. I'll be back, gonna eat and still playing Tales of graces.

[Subieko]

I'm not accusing you of not existing (haha, that's funny, coming from me); I just think that you're trying to fit in, etc. generally a scumtell. This post isn't helping too much. Okay, I'm almost convinced that Subieko is scum. Vote stays for now.

wow am i tunneling? am i buddying with bizz, lmao what am i doing; maybe i'll have more thoughts once people post more, and i can get better reads

(1) What does everyone else think of Subieko? o:

(2) And what about Marth? o:

Oh I see, never mind then. Wrt to trying to fit in, I can only post what I actually think of. Don't know what else to tell you. Not sure I like the second-guessing yourself in the same post though; it weakens your statements and it also comes off as a tad scummy imo.

I still think Marth is probably Town making silly posts as this point. I'm not really convinced that there have to be scum on his wagon either; sitting back and letting the town infight is also a viable scum strategy.

If you'll notice those posts are at around 6 AM after I had been up all night so I hold no responsibility for my actions. I just woke up twenty minutes ago.

This isn't a great defense imo, but your last post had some good thinking so I'm satisfied. Still wondering what you think of Excellen right now though. ##Unvote

Hey Flint. You seem super quick to assume Excellen is mafia, this could make Flint a mafia trying to setup a mislynch right from the start.

Pretty sure Blitz always throws pressure votes around during D1 to get reactions. Your suspicions here are kind of overblown, and seem a bit scummy to me.

The rest of your post seems like a combo of echoing, quotedump to make it look like more content than it is, and some stuff that doesn't make sense to me, like your speculation about Marth being a bomb and vanillas; it wasn't clear to me what you were trying to say there. Also you said Marth is scummy but didn't vote him, and having a mismatch between what you say and how you vote strikes me as scummy. You also listed Bizz as Town but didn't actually mention her in the rest of the post; what makes her Town?

Guys, stop voting for Marth. It's obviously a reaction test, and he obviously doesn't want to say so because what good would a reaction test do if you announced it? Marth, give it up and admit it, poking at Blitzy isn't worth getting lynched over.

Do you have opinions on anyone other than Marth, Kay? Your post is a tad empty.

I'm going to ##Vote: SeriousBananas, following up three one-liner posts with a quotedump low on content feels like active lurking to me, and I don't like the suspicions of Blitz.

[charlie_]

I've been wrapping my head around things. It's my second game and I'm still not too good at reading people.

[charlie_]

Oh, and Bizz is the quote dump above and the fact I couldn't find anything wrong with it. She's at the bottom of the list but she's there.

[Excellen Browning]

no thank you I might post my current opinions just before the end of N1 but for now I will mostly keep my suspicions to myself to keep building cases against whoever I think is scum at the moment and to avoid a stupid bandwagon. If I think I have made a solid case however you guys will know.

[Subieko]

I've been wrapping my head around things. It's my second game and I'm still not too good at reading people.

Actually I just spotted something else in your post that I overlooked before.

I think I can see some small amount of reason behind this but not enough to really go gunning for him yet. Do you have some information of Blitz that the rest of us don't?

This was in response to Marth's vote on Blitz. At the start of your post, you suggested that Blitz might be scum trying to mislynch Excellen, and you say you're wary of him. But you find Marth's vote on Blitz unreasonable? This seems to be a contradiction. In fact, although you responded to BBM's point about Marth's buddying up by saying it compounded your suspicions, it's not entirely clear to me why you're suspicious of Marth. You quoted some his posts but your responses don't really address what's scummy about them.

Care to explain your suspicions further?

[charlie_]

It's not his vote that's unreasonable. It's the fact that he refuses to justify the vote even when he's in the line of fire. The part about the bomb was me trying to think why he would do something like that, in any way. My suspicions about Blitz may have been a bit hasty as I don't know him that well. But we need to start somewhere to get some information. It's not enough to convince me Blitz is mafia, but it's leaning slightly that way.

[BBM]

SB, you asked if Marth has some info about Blitz that the rest of us don't. Consider that this is a day start with no outside contact. Unless Marth's role PM told him that Blitz was so-and-so (highly unlikely), he has no way of knowing anything more about Blitz than other people.

[charlie_]

That's what I meant. I'm just pushing for information right now.

[Subieko]

It's not his vote that's unreasonable. It's the fact that he refuses to justify the vote even when he's in the line of fire. The part about the bomb was me trying to think why he would do something like that, in any way. My suspicions about Blitz may have been a bit hasty as I don't know him that well. But we need to start somewhere to get some information. It's not enough to convince me Blitz is mafia, but it's leaning slightly that way.

I see. But consider this: if both Marth and Blitz were scum, why would Marth make such a commotion by voting for Blitz? Drawing a ton of attention himself and a scumbuddy early D1 seems way too risky to me. I'd also like to know why you're not voting for either of them, given that you're suspicious of both (unless you voted somewhere and I missed it).