Folgore Rangers Mafia -- GAME OVER

[Elieson]

BBM is spec'img traitor because Lucina claimed Camdar and is also claiming to not know her teammates.

[Grace]

I was the one who mentioned traitor first because of logic that elie just said

sooooooooo

[Shinori]

I think I might actually know what Baldrick is, and if he is what I think he is I'd like him to use his ability tonight.

[Darros]

BBM is spec'img traitor because Lucina claimed Camdar and is also claiming to not know her teammates.

I really really doubt that if Lucina did know her teammates she would actually tell us who they are. Though I wouldn't rule it out completely, I wouldn't put too much thought into a traitor role, Lucina wouldn't tell use her scumbuddies regardless of if she was a traitor or not.

[Baldrick]

You better sock it to me, daddio. I'm getting some wiggity-wack vibes from you.

OK.

I was saying Shinori was talking the talk, but wasn't walking the walk. He seemed to have a pretty strong scumread on you, and town vibes from Rapier, but handwaved why he wasn't voting for you. Even if it seemed unlikely, he didn't even try, which makes him either apathetic or actually OK with Rapier being lynched. (Addendum: He was taking a third option because he didn't like either of the main lynches. Dropping the case on Shin without any explanation is still a bit suss, though.)

I'm only trying to stop discussion on that particular post Eclipse linked. It's not going to go anywhere until I feel my lynch is imminent.

BBM, I wouldn't really consider either of those rolefishing. Xinnidy had already implied she was an active role here, I was looking for confirmation like she had asked from me. And the question to Eclipse has nothing to do with her role.

I'm not sure what these indirect jabs are. The only times I mentioned Mancer was my case against Rapier, and questioning Eclipse. I assumed it was the latter, and so have explained what my intention was there.

[Baldrick]

EBWOP: The traitorspec can wait, we will be getting a definitive answer anyway.

[Jaybee]

i thought lucy was trolling, wouldn't put too much stock into the traitor thing

also mancer do make a note to respond to me pointing out your pathetic argument

[Kay]

Kay needs to start existing and explaining. Mancer was apparently her top read but she didn't want to lynch him, then gives a list of people she'd like to lynch which doesn't match her "top reads".

Do you need that much of an explanation for why I didn't want to lynch Mancer? Also, sources for when the people I wanted to lynch didn't match my top reads? Whatever you're basing that on, obviously reads change, if I want to lynch someone, you can assume they are one of my top reads at that time.

So apparently my useless question doesn't generate responses worth discussing? I really like how Manix, Kay et al have disregarded that even though it's not the best form of general scumhunting, responses to this question can do a lot for forming opinions.

How is that a great response? Complaining about PRs doesn't really seem worth discussing to me. Also, responses for all kinds of things can be useful for forming opinions. You can't say something's a good thing to post just because people will react to it.

[charlie_]

I am gonna be gone for a bunch of today but

Why are we actually trusting Lucina here?

Post when I get back I guess.

[MancerNecro]

I actually think that Lucina is lying about not knowing about her team members. We shouldn't actually speculate this until her flip though.

[Ema Skye]

Because you guys love me and like giving me so much attention, obviously.

[eclipse]

I don't care if I'm sick and tired, I'm gonna respond anyway.

I appreciate the compliment~

However, one thing you're disregarding is everybody else's views on Shin and Rapier. For one, you seem to have Shin locked as your number one team pick, and for your own reasons I'm sure, they're good. However, have you considered that Shin may possibly have the same view on Rapier (well, had), that you have on Shin? It's something that I have no way of knowing, and based on your ever-so cryptic wording, probably won't know for a while. I'm probably overreacting at this (and to be honest, I'm working backwards in this response, from bottom up, so you'll have to excuse me as my patience grows thinner in reverse to the norm), but it's worth you considering that your knowledge is potentially exclusive, but also potentially not.

Absolutely. Not. And I can say this with certainty.

So a concern over Rapier being lynched. Interesting considering your upcoming vote...

It's like you didn't read WHY I voted for Rapier. Taking stuff out of context and quoting is nice, but it falls flat on its face when you fail to consider things like Shin at 5 votes, Rapier at 4 (before I voted), and an imminent phase end where I explicitly said I wouldn't be around.

Ok, what is this? One, you have a scumread on Lucina. Two, you've mentioned Rapier all of like twice all game (once as "Where the fuck are you" and again as he wouldn't be a good lynch target). Yet, you also don't find him very town, or something. So you effectivly defended him, then settled on him, weird. Especially weird when like I said, there was 6+ hours left in the phase, and you voting for Lucina (Your scumread that already had 2 votes) would have thrust Lucina into the Wagon pile, having her need 2 votes in 6 hours in order to be lynched.

Also I'm glad you find Shin to be the most townly-of-town players out there. Not sure exactly what he did to earn that from you, especially when your last mention of him was decidedly Null. I won't pry on this, but I think it's bad play; though coming from me, probably doesn't mean much in the long run.

(Unless I caught the hint, in which case, why should I even believe it?)

See above. I'm not repeating myself.

Ok first, unless you know more about the game than all the other players do, stop guessing around at the game's balance. SetupSpec is useless and you know it, so just because you may or may not have some super powerful special ability at your disposal, you still can't have a sense of knowledge that other's don't simply because of your gut feeling. You saw the horrible balance in SF2M, but it got approved by its checker without a single concern.

Unless you know my role, stop questioning why I think this. Duplicates of my role would basically make the game so town-sided that a mafia victory would be near-impossible. This I know for a fact, to the point where if anyone else claims what I am, I will vote them.

For the record, I voted Shinori but was ninja'd when I was flipping over to you. His response I don't mind, but yours I genuinely don't like. Why? Because instead of just answering the question, you answer it and bark orders at me to do things that I'm apparently not doing; an answer I have only seen from scum in all my attempts of doing so.

Don't vote me for stupid reasons. Not having a read on me was a terrible reason; I know that I've done enough so that it should be pretty hard to have a null read on me.

I'm still ISO'ing you, and rereading the entire thread, looking for this part where you said you were going to be back once more before phase end. I found it, but I still don't see how that has anything to do with you voting for someone you don't find to be very scummy. I don't like it, and therefore, I like you less.

Y'know what you'd like less? What would've happened if Shin was lynched.

However, you're eclipse. And despite everything I ever find against you ever, you manage to elude me and my hunches and turn up town, so like i said.

I HAVE NO READ ON YOU, because my scumreads on you generally fail, and my town reads on you generally aren't very strong but are supported nonetheless. Therefore, you're unmemorable to me because nothing you have done in this entire fucking game has been overwhelmingly towny/scummy, unlike everybody else bar Shinori.

There. Does that make sense?

However, I reread through this a third time, polished up a few responses, copied it into the post block, reread it again, and I'm starting to develop a read on you. It's probably not one you'd like, but alas, it's finally an opinion that tips my scale of indecisiveness regarding you and your perpetual neutrality.

I don't see how hard-defending someone THE ENTIRE TIME HE WAS UNDER FIRE can result in a null read ('cause criticizing every single vote on someone has some sort of motive). It intentionally puts me in the spotlight. Me voting for Rapier in that manner shouldn't be a null read, either; you've commented on it enough. Me yelling at Mancer D1 should also be not-null. So how in the world did you end up with a null read after all of that?

My current read on you is that something's getting in the way of actually analyzing the game. You had a fairly solid D1 showing, you were kind of not there D2 for RL reasons, and now you're going off into what-is-this-land on D3. If you can make a coherent case against me, then go for it. If I can defend Shin, I should be able to defend myself. However, if I see points in there that came about because you missed something like "I am not going to be here for phase end and I will do anything short of modkilling myself to make sure that Shin isn't lynched", I'll probably have a less-than-amused response.

I wouldn't take Lucina's words at face value. Maybe she's a traitor, or maybe she's not. We'll find out once the phase ends.

Baldrick, I'll make a note of that; if I feel it's relevant, I'll come back to it. For now. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

Do you have scumreads that aren't Lucina? Who are they? Why aren't you pushing them?

[Grace]

Pretty sure I've managed to kill my comp in a fit of anger (don't ask) so until I figure out what's wrong with it I'm phonebound ;/

[Darros]

Note to all the people scumhunting that I thought should be obvious but I'll point out just in case: I hope that by the end of the day ((8:15 my time ((AST)) tomorrow)) you will end up voting Lucina. Scumhunting is grand and what not, and I don't discourage it, but the end of everything we do have a guilty member out in public ((she even claimed Camdar wut)) and killing them would be better than taking a host at someone who might be mafia.

[Darros]

I'm tired and that may have not made sense but I think you'll be able to get the gist of it.

[eclipse]

We know what you mean, Darros! It looks like she's got enough votes to be lynched at deadline, unless someone unvotes her for whatever reason.

[Elieson]

##SoftReset

##AstraCRITCRITCRITCRITCRIT Doofina

Ugh that was bothersome eclipse. You settled for Rapier and that bothers me. Regardless of your hardcore defense of Shin, it still comes across as poor play when your vote could've been placed on Lucina and brought her to 3. Amassing two more votes in 6 hours shouldn't be a huge endeavor.

Few people defend other players to such an extreme point that you have. Do I find it suspicious? Yes. Do I expect it from you? Only for a good reason. An I a player that has been swayed by arguments from scum because I couldn't formulate a good enough argument myself? Yes. Are you capable of making me doubt myself due to your talent in debate? Yes. Deal with it

One other note: Everyone tells at Mancer. Always. Sho yelled at Mancer and look how that turned out.

Obviously my reads on you are being shoved back in my face then. Fine, I've got one. Expect to see my vote being applied to scum tomorrow.

@ Kay:

Sho's response was negative and quite defensive when it didnt have to be. That heavily read scum to me, hence me voting for him for a good and early majority of the day. I don't blame you for not understanding my thought process there, but don't just toss it aside because you don't understand it. Bizz has her way of interpreting posts and alignment, but she doesn't get as much flak for it as I did just during this phase alone.

I'm jumping back into this full force after work this evening so I'll have something not from "what-is-this land" that I apparently pitched a tent in. BBL

I'm so behind in my drafts le sigh.

[Grace]

Public Notice

My grandfather is having health complications and has been required to go to the hospital and I have to be on call all day so activity will be limited

[eclipse]

Ugh that was bothersome eclipse. You settled for Rapier and that bothers me. Regardless of your hardcore defense of Shin, it still comes across as poor play when your vote could've been placed on Lucina and brought her to 3. Amassing two more votes in 6 hours shouldn't be a huge endeavor.

I wasn't sure if there would be enough people to vote, and I wasn't about to let Shin be lynched. Assuming NO ONE had come on after I had placed my vote, it would've been a No Lynch - not desirable, but much more desirable than a Shin lynch. Assuming two people would vote Lucina was too risky at that point, as well.

Few people defend other players to such an extreme point that you have. Do I find it suspicious? Yes. Do I expect it from you? Only for a good reason. An I a player that has been swayed by arguments from scum because I couldn't formulate a good enough argument myself? Yes. Are you capable of making me doubt myself due to your talent in debate? Yes. Deal with it

That's the point of mafia. I don't do something past RVS unless it's for a reason. I don't mind if you take notes on what I do, or find it weird, or whatever. I do what needs to be done in the context of the game. If you can come up with a good argument on the scum motivations behind my actions, go for it. It's been a while since someone tried to lynch me with a good reason, and I need the practice.

One other note: Everyone tells at Mancer. Always. Sho yelled at Mancer and look how that turned out.

Obviously my reads on you are being shoved back in my face then. Fine, I've got one. Expect to see my vote being applied to scum tomorrow.

There's been yelling, to various degrees. WHAT is being yelled is another matter entirely.

@ Kay:

Sho's response was negative and quite defensive when it didnt have to be. That heavily read scum to me, hence me voting for him for a good and early majority of the day. I don't blame you for not understanding my thought process there, but don't just toss it aside because you don't understand it. Bizz has her way of interpreting posts and alignment, but she doesn't get as much flak for it as I did just during this phase alone.

I'm not Kay, but I'll address this. Bizz's arguments don't read as if she wasn't paying attention. They contain relevance to what's been happening, which is why she doesn't come under as much fire. I might be able to see having a null read on Shinori (it's a stretch), but I've been very much present in this thread. Having a null read on me at this point in time is weird, because you either completely missed everything I posted (either side), are trying to draw discussion away from the impending Lucina lynch (mafia motivation), or trying to do some weird prod that makes very little sense in my mind (either side). Given the events in D2, I am inclined to think that you're trying to jump in with a completely new angle, but are doing so in such a way that it completely disregards what I've been doing, which is why I'm not pleased with it.

There's 24.75 hours left in the phase, if I've done my maths right. I would like to see more discussion, which is why my vote will stay on Kay (she was around when I made it, and I think she might be back one more time before phase end).

[BBM]

Yeah I know I said I'd make a post yesterday evening but I got caught up in other stuff. Other than Baldrick, I get kind of bad vibes from Shinori, though I don't really have much backing it up. At the beginning, he made a point of saying he wanted to keep his RVS vote on Xinny, but didn't say why he wanted to do so, or even why he unvoted her later, other than that he found Baldrick scummy. Then, the majority of his D1 and a good chunk of his D2 was spent towards attacking Baldrick, yet he seems to have just sort of dropped it for no apparent reason on D3, and asked him to use his role tonight. Maybe it was because Shinori correctly interpreted Baldrick's rolecrumbs or something, but I don't really like the way in which he dropped it.

[Percivalé]

notplaying

Bizz has her way of interpreting posts and alignment, but she doesn't get as much flak for it

I beg to differ

notplaying

[CT075]

not gonna bother collecting votals because i have an essay to finish but

With 13 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch and 8 votes are needed to hammer. You have ~23 hours left in the phase

[MancerNecro]

I'm going to be slightly more inactive for the next few days due to school activities and sales. I hope you guys won't mind if I am unable to post very often in the next few days.Otherwise, I want to get in that like what someone else has said, I think that those players who have continued to get on my case even after my claim could be opportunistic scum that are trying to push a mislynch on me. That would also explain why the scumteam decided not to kill me last Night. In fact, if the trend continues, I think that I might not necessarily be killed yet due to a combination of fears of a Watcher WIFOM game with the mafia and the fact that the mafia team would be trying to push for my lynch.Basically, right now, the people who have been on my case after my claim are Rapier (who has already been lynched), JB and Kay. I suggest that we look into either JB or Kay after Lucina is lynched. Of note is the fact that eclipse has also mentioned in part that she might want my lynch over someone else too, so we might want to look into that. The way Kay has just sidestepped her comment about wanting me lynched also piques my interest.I also apologise for my skimming through the thread and not getting all the details well enough because I don't really have a lot of free time and I'd rather spend that time coming up with a post rather than having to spend a long time rereading the thread and then end up being unable to post anything because of a lack of time.

[MancerNecro]

EBWOP because my phone sucks.

I'm going to be slightly more inactive for the next few days due to school activities and sales. I hope you guys won't mind if I am unable to post very often in the next few days.

Otherwise, I want to get in that like what someone else has said, I think that those players who have continued to get on my case even after my claim could be opportunistic scum that are trying to push a mislynch on me. That would also explain why the scumteam decided not to kill me last Night. In fact, if the trend continues, I think that I might not necessarily be killed yet due to a combination of fears of a Watcher WIFOM game with the mafia and the fact that the mafia team would be trying to push for my lynch.

Basically, right now, the people who have been on my case after my claim are Rapier (who has already been lynched), JB and Kay. I suggest that we look into either JB or Kay after Lucina is lynched. Of note is the fact that eclipse has also mentioned in part that she might want my lynch over someone else too, so we might want to look into that. The way Kay has just sidestepped her comment about wanting me lynched also piques my interest.

I also apologise for my skimming through the thread and not getting all the details well enough because I don't really have a lot of free time and I'd rather spend that time coming up with a post rather than having to spend a long time rereading the thread and then end up being unable to post anything because of a lack of time.

[MancerNecro]

I am now going to spend a little bit of time ISOing the players that I have mentioned along with all the lynched players (Sho and Rapier) to see what reads I can get.