Quintessence Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Falcom said: I think we should listen to what Ana says. If any of you do encounter another Merric, make sure to confirm if Merric does indeed have hax. Better yet, take a photo too. I faced a Merric on the arena yesterday and he was ok ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Yes! Cleared map 9-5 on Lunatic! Team used: 5* Lyn (+HP/-Spd) 4* Lissa (+Atk/-HP) 4* Olivia (neutral) 4* Ursula (neutral) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said: Yes! Cleared map 9-5 on Lunatic! Team used: 5* Lyn (+HP/-Spd) 4* Lissa (+Atk/-HP) 4* Olivia (neutral) 4* Ursula (neutral) Yeah you pretty much just use Olivia and win. My Olivia was only level 27 when I did it lol Congratulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I'm still baffled how early Tier list didn't instantly put Olivia into SS Tier "outclassed by Azura" be damned. The fact that she's a dancer and other character doesn't instantly makes her the best unit in the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, JSND said: I'm still baffled how early Tier list didn't instantly put Olivia into SS Tier "outclassed by Azura" be damned. The fact that she's a dancer and other character doesn't instantly makes her the best unit in the game Azura = Olivia with more speed and resistance with a sapphire lance. Which is why Olivia is okay but Azura is just better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcom Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Because of how much red sword users there are at the moment, Azura will usually do more compared to Olivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Arcanite said: Azura = Olivia with more speed and resistance with a sapphire lance. Which is why Olivia is okay but Azura is just better. I won't argue that Olivia is better than Azura, but my main issue is that putting Olivia in any tier that isn't the highest possible is completely underselling how good she is. I mean my unit pool is like gutter trash(Chrom, Roy, Julia, Sheena), but just because the squad had Olivia in it, it become ok enough it can compete in arena easilly and completes tons of contents. I don't think even Takumi could carry that much of an impact to my team(nevermind the fact that Takumi + Olivia is outright ridiculous) Edited March 12, 2017 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, JSND said: I won't argue that Azura is better than Olivia, but my main issue is that putting Olivia in any tier that isn't the highest possible is completely underselling how good she is. I mean my unit pool is like gutter trash(Chrom, Roy, Julia, Sheena), but just because the squad had Olivia in it, it become ok enough it can compete in arena easilly and completes tons of contents. I don't think even Takumi could carry that much of an impact to my team(nevermind the fact that Takumi + Olivia is outright ridiculous) Assuming we don't dispute that Azura deserves to be in the highest tier also, putting Olivia there too means that it doesn't make a difference who you have on your team because they are equally as good. But they aren't. Due to the sheer amount of reds there are that means Olivia can barely defend herself against her own type. Sure, Azura can't really defend against spears either but her speed and resistance balance her out. Spoiler With Azura you get: Sword counter Singer Decent Resistance High speed With Olivia you get: Ax counter sort of . . . . . Okay defense Dancer How useful is a sword counter as opposed to an ax counter? Considering how many Marths, roys, lucinas and the like are running around I'd say a sword is better. Maybe @Elieson can make a Olivia vs. Azura analysis after he does Anna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) You forget that Olivia also gets the Hone Atk 3 passive as a 4-star unit, which is something Azura doesn't have in the current game. However, if Azura can get Hone Atk 3 via skill inheritance, then Azura completely outclasses Olivia assuming the red-flooded meta doesn't change. Edited March 12, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Olivia also has the Attack boost. It makes her more pure support, but on the likes of Nino it really helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Korath88 said: I've had better success fighting Hectors with swordfighters than effective damage units as WTA reduces the damage they take. However, if you don't have any good swords then Frederick should still do quite well, as long as Hector attacks first. Yeah, but the only armorslayer units I have are Caeda and Hana who have shit def... I had a lot of trouble using both because they could not stay alive. My best sword is Palla because she is virtually weak in NONE of her stats and I've leveled her up quite a bit (she's lv. 36 and 4 star). Highish everything, seriously. She's not the tankiest unit I have, but she takes hits better than any other Peg knight I've tried so far, and I've tried Caeda (bad def) and Subaki (bad res). I also have Cordelia and her defenses don't look great either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: Yeah, but the only armorslayer units I have are Caeda and Hana who have shit def... I had a lot of trouble using both because they could not stay alive. My best sword is Palla because she is virtually weak in NONE of her stats and I've leveled her up quite a bit (she's lv. 36 and 4 star). Highish everything, seriously. She's not the tankiest unit I have, but she takes hits better than any other Peg knight I've tried so far, and I've tried Caeda (bad def) and Subaki (bad res). I also have Cordelia and her defenses don't look great either. Palla will probably do better than Caeda or Hana against Hector because Ruby Sword would also reduce the damage she takes from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Palla will probably do better than Caeda or Hana against Hector because Ruby Sword would also reduce the damage she takes from him. Yeah, probably. Also, why does Hector have to attack Frederick first, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Yeah, probably. Also, why does Hector have to attack Frederick first, exactly? Hector has a special ability that lets him double attack an opponent if he's hit first (no matter how much lower his speed is), so attacking him first doubles the amount of damage you'd take from letting him attack you first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just now, MaskedAmpharos said: Hector has a special ability that lets him double attack an opponent if he's hit first (no matter how much lower his speed is), so attacking him first doubles the amount of damage you'd take from letting him attack you first. ...Oh. That's probably what happened to Frederick the last time I tried to have him get rid of a Hector then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Anacybele said: ...Oh. That's probably what happened to Frederick the last time I tried to have him get rid of a Hector then... If possible, I let Hector come to me, and the counterattack will drop him below the threshold for his doubling, and you get kill him on the next round. For Frederick, I don't think either is normally fast enough to double the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rezzy said: If possible, I let Hector come to me, and the counterattack will drop him below the threshold for his doubling, and you get kill him on the next round. For Frederick, I don't think either is normally fast enough to double the other. My Freddy's been able to double Hector sometimes, but I guess it also depends on the characters' levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_or_Die Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Well, I finally cleared Lunatic 7-5 with 4 armor units to finish the March quests. Got impatient at the end and used a Light's Blessing, although I'm sure it's possible to do it otherwise. Team was Effie, Wendy x 2, and Draug (whose only job was to kill Hector). Let me just say, leveling Draug and Wendy to lvl 40 is an absolute pain ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Fly_or_Die said: Well, I finally cleared Lunatic 7-5 with 4 armor units to finish the March quests. Got impatient at the end and used a Light's Blessing, although I'm sure it's possible to do it otherwise. Team was Effie, Wendy x 2, and Draug (whose only job was to kill Hector). Let me just say, leveling Draug and Wendy to lvl 40 is an absolute pain ... Congrats :D I've given up on the quest since I only have two armors :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Fly_or_Die said: Well, I finally cleared Lunatic 7-5 with 4 armor units to finish the March quests. Got impatient at the end and used a Light's Blessing, although I'm sure it's possible to do it otherwise. Team was Effie, Wendy x 2, and Draug (whose only job was to kill Hector). Let me just say, leveling Draug and Wendy to lvl 40 is an absolute pain ... Congrats, I think I've just given up on that Quest, 1 movement is too much of a pain to train to 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Rezzy said: Congrats, I think I've just given up on that Quest, 1 movement is too much of a pain to train to 40. Unless it's Hector, who you can just toss into the middle of the map haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Arcanite said: Assuming we don't dispute that Azura deserves to be in the highest tier also, putting Olivia there too means that it doesn't make a difference who you have on your team because they are equally as good. But they aren't. Due to the sheer amount of reds there are that means Olivia can barely defend herself against her own type. Sure, Azura can't really defend against spears either but her speed and resistance balance her out. Hide contents With Azura you get: Sword counter Singer Decent Resistance High speed With Olivia you get: Ax counter sort of . . . . . Okay defense Dancer How useful is a sword counter as opposed to an ax counter? Considering how many Marths, roys, lucinas and the like are running around I'd say a sword is better. Maybe @Elieson can make a Olivia vs. Azura analysis after he does Anna. That's actually my plan, have an Anna post up tomorrow, and Dancer comparison next and then Inheritance goes live and I can dedicate myself to super detailed analysis using my new calculator that handles data updated from @Ice Dragons efforts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 To me Olivia and Azura are on par. Olivia is a better offensive support unit due to Hone Atk which is more desired than buff res. Plus Olivia is free so only few people will pull Azura. Azura's Sapphire Lance is good and all but her def is crap, so her being an anti sword unit is limited to only face that unit and no one else, as she's pretty much dead against any other color. Same as Olivia though but imo Hone Atk makes Olivia be at the same tier level as Azura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Quintessence said: Plus Olivia is free so only few people will pull Azura. Availability is not a factor that is or should be taken into consideration in a tier list of this sort. 9 minutes ago, Quintessence said: Azura's Sapphire Lance is good and all but her def is crap, so her being an anti sword unit is limited to only face that unit and no one else, as she's pretty much dead against any other color. Sapphire Lance gives her increased damage and allows her to take decreased damage against red units, which are still more common than other colors. Her neutral Def of 21 may be lower than Olivia's neutral Def of 27, but the Sapphire Lance causes a -6 effective Atk decrease if the opponent is red and has more than 30 Atk, which is very literally every red unit in the game. Olivia has poor offensive and defensive performance against common red units and only has an advantage against green units, which are typically rare outside of Hector. 16 minutes ago, Quintessence said: Same as Olivia though but imo Hone Atk makes Olivia be at the same tier level as Azura. While Hone Atk is incredibly useful, it's not enough to put Olivia on the same level as Lucina, Linde, Hector, and Takumi. Olivia has Dance support and Hone Atk, whereas Azura has Sing support, Hone Res, and an actual offensive presence against a very relevant portion of the current metagame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Olivia has Dance support and Hone Atk, whereas Azura has Sing support, Hone Res, and an actual offensive presence against a very relevant portion of the current metagame. My point is that Hone Atk on its own is worth to keep Olivia in the same tier as Azura, just in a lower position since Azura can act as a hybrid unit, that's her plus. But I don't find the need to position them in different tiers. = EDIT = Another issue I find with azura is that at points you'll need to sacrifice one role for the other. Edited March 12, 2017 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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